GNR Women's discussion

[BorderlineCrazy]

4 hours ago, Fansince88 said:

I hate myself a little bit for doing this, but I read Steven Adler's Mom's book.   I had a long flight for work last week and I hate flying so I read it to pass the time on the plane.  Honestly, the book  is so poorly written/edited that even if you do want to give her the benefit of the doubt that she wrote it to help others, it doesn't come across that way at all.  Her relationship with her son comes across as really, really fucked up and it leaves you feeling like you need a shower when you are done reading it.

When the whole Celebrity Rehab/Sober House stuff was going on I was busy having kids so I never saw the shows or read his book, so you all probably have heard this stuff before but here are the few interesting (and I use that term loosely) tidbits:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

She talks about Axl and Steven sending a limo to her house with a bag of dirty laundry and how later they came over for dinner and as she was ironing Axl's jeans:   "Steven told me to take a good look at what I was pressing  I hadn't noticed that Axl's pants were full of profanity.  All over the pants were two words "Fuck You" How sick!  Unfortunately these words from Axl would prove to be prophetic "  Her hate for Axl is pretty clear throughout book and among her claims is that he got her fired from her  "Ask Deanna" column in Kerrang magazine.  Later (after the RRHOF) she says that Steven and Axl met and that Axl told Steven that it was pretty much Slash who "campaigned" to get Steven out of the band and that Axl was telling Steven now because he "was sick of covering for Slash" and that Axl was "fed up with being branded the manipulative asshole who intimidated everyone in the band and single handedly booted Adler out".

She writes about Axl's Mom:   (this took place at the LA Coliseum when they were opening for the Rolling Stones)  " During the concert I met Axl's Mom Sharon Bailey.  Sharon was a very down to earth, well dresssed, sweet woman. Sharon and I chatted about the band's success.  Then we expressed our feelings about Geffen and the boys .  It turned out we shared many of the same secrets and concerns.  But with Sharon, I sensed an almost healthy resignation; an acceptance that our sons' excessive lifestyles were a mandatory part of the equation. Sharon told me that she traveled all the way from Indiana to see her son, but had spent only a few minutes with Axl.  She felt this was unavoidable due to the demands presently being put upon the group to write new music, hold interviews and continue touring.  Mothers want their sons to be happy and I sensed that this beautiful woman had made her share of sacrifices for her son.  We traded looks and there was a moment between us worth a hundred heartaches"    

As for the GNR lawyers and management, she pretty much hates them too. According to her, they  talked Steven out of sending flowers to the family of the two boys who died at Donnington and that management encouraged all of the guys to make wills. She was livid when she saw that in Steven's will "the band's manager was the executor of the will.  In the section for dispersal of personal property the manager's name appeared again.  He was listed to receive Steven's house in Studio City and his Mercedes."  She then goes on to say that he left Axl some videotapes, but nothing to his stepdad/brother.

The book was written just before Coachella with an epilogue about the reunion. At the start of the book she says that they were hopeful about Steven being asked to do Coachella.  As for Axl's broken foot at Coachella she had this lovely sentiment:  "It also made the concert at Coachella kind of curios and comical, because Axl had to stay in a sitting position throughout the entire concert, which probably made Slash and Duff shake their heads and the Coachella kids wonder why the lead singer of GNR looked like a pudgy pink hobbit who never stirred from his toadstool".

Lastly this is what she says about the reunion:  "It became obvious that Steven would not be asked to rejoin the band for the kick off of their North American tour.  His lower back had not healed completely and it  must have been extremely difficult for him to watch GNR perform in city after city to rave reviews without him". As for shows that Steven did do, she is kind of tight lipped  about it -- Just that he got an important phone call and couldn't talk about it and the next thing she knew, he was in Nashville  

 

 

 

I was hoping the book wasn't gonna be like this. Shame on her...

Thank you so much @Fansince88 for the review! 

34 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

 

Oh, Steven and Axl holding hands. They could have been a great couple if that girl Adrianna didn't get in the middle 

#TeamAxleven (?)

-------------------------------------

Can't get enough of those awesome gifs @Andy14 did.   S O  F N'  P E R F E C T ! ! 

But I feel like an intruder every time I come to this thread. I feel I should at least wear a wig and a skirt to come here 

[BlueJean Baby]

8 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I was hoping the book wasn't gonna be like this. Shame on her...

Thank you so much @Fansince88 for the review! 

Oh, Steven and Axl holding hands. They could have been a great couple if that girl Adrianna didn't get in the middle 

#TeamAxleven (?)

-------------------------------------

Can't get enough of those awesome gifs @Andy14 did.   S O  F N'  P E R F E C T ! ! 

But I feel like an intruder every time I come to this thread. I feel I should at least wear a wig and a skirt to come here 

Lol....it's OK, if we don't scare you...drop by anytime

[marlingrl03]

Nah.....never feel like that @BorderlineCrazy! We got other cool guys like @Frey around too. You guys we don't mind having around. 

[SerenityScorp]

Someone edited this

[SerenityScorp]

 

 

[triad]

7 hours ago, Lumikki said:

 

 

Man, Duff was good with the eyeliner.  

[Tori72]

11 hours ago, Lumikki said:

 

This pretty boy:

 

These fotos are all soooooo <3 ! I love the band fotos the most. All this goofyness and love.  Izzys little dimple is killing me, Slash is being the cute 19 year old he is at the time and Axl looks so relaxed - and so adorably tiny next to his taller bandmates.  

And Axl looks like Jodie Foster, don't you think so? Especially in the fotos when he is posing all alone. This is the one and only time when he truly looks "like a lesbian".   He looked girlish, yeah.  But never in this all-soft effeminite way, but in this sexy androgynous way. 

[dgnr]

Grandpa is missing his boy 

 

[Fansince88]

I knew Grandpa would be back!  Can't wait to see if he joins GNR on stage this weekend.  Slash better up his game, just saying.  If he sent Fernando flowers, just imagine what he sent Axl.         

Has anyone noticed that Melissa has been calling Fernando "Fernie" on Instagram lately? 

@Lumikki those are beautiful pictures.  Those hairdos!  Love it and spent many years staring at that era of GNR on my bedroom walls.  

 

[Fansince88]

He's so yummy.....

 

 

[Fansince88]

[nonok]

@Lumikki those photos are GOLD. Pure gold, I tell ya! Thanks for sharing.

1 hour ago, dgnr said:

Grandpa is missing his boy 

 

 

Nooooooo (and yes at the same time)! Slash, this is a proper gift, not a gif of a freakin' dinosaur. Better increase The Leaning™ before Grandpa fills Axl's dressing room with Taco Bell and then it's game over.

 

As for the book - What. The. FUCK?!?! Why is Steven so hell-bent on destroying his chances of ever playing with GNR again? And his mom is completely delusional - "we shared a look of a thousand heartaches" or whatever. Sure, bitch. Sharon the sufferer - a dumb, spineless woman who stood by idly as not only one, but two men raped and abused her "precious son". What a load of BS these people are. If you can't take care of your children, leave them the fuck alone

[SerenityScorp]

48 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

He's so yummy.....

 

 

He looks skinny there

 

 

Slash V.S Grandpa Angus starts now!

Slashy poo need to do something or Grandpa will not approve Slash relationship with His Grandson

Dinner with Grandpa N' Axl? Visit Grandpa house? a gift? 

Edited February 8, 2017 by SerenityScorp

[killuridols]

Thank you @Fansince88 for sharing excerpts of the book you bought and read. I think I will purchase it at some point because none of what you posted sounds to me like "lies". Most of it has been already said by somebody else or the guys themselves.

I just want to saythat I don't agree with all the insults and dubious comments made on Steven's and Axl's mothers, like any of you would have been in their place and had any right to give opinion on their parenting. 

Yes, we know those kids lives and families were not good but at some point, when you become an adult you can't keep blaming your parents and families for what you do wrong in your life. This is a common mistake people do and I'm alwAys disgusted by adults who find excuses in their past for who they are in the present.

Some people's blind fanatism is what Makes it impossible to have good debates in this thread anymore.

Not a single sign of enlightenment and critical views.

 

 

 

[tifalucis]

1 hour ago, dgnr said:

Grandpa is missing his boy 

 

God dammit, step up your game, Slash!! 

[SerenityScorp]

I hope @Andy14 makes gif of Slaxl, Sluff, Izzaxl on Valentine day  oh dont forget gif of Slash Angus N' Axl 

[BorderlineCrazy]

1 hour ago, nonok said:

Nooooooo (and yes at the same time)! Slash, this is a proper gift, not a gif of a freakin' dinosaur. Better increase The Leaning™ before Grandpa fills Axl's dressing room with Taco Bell and then it's game over.

Slash travelled to London just to see Axl play with AC/DC, he didn't just wait at home with some flowers. In my book, he's winning by far 

[SerenityScorp]

[Jane M.]

17 hours ago, Ewelka said:

Hi everyone! I'm new here. I've been reading this forum for a while, but I decided to create an account just now because I have something interasting to share.

I had to read Elliot Aronson's book "The Social Animal" for one of my classes. There's a part in which he talks about the ability to think of something as your own memory from the past even though that memory isn't real. It happens when somebody else mentions to you something as an event that happened in your life and it seems 100% realistic, but you never actually expierienced it. He also said that in 80s and 90s there was a lot of people who because of their therapists realised they forgot they were raped or sexually harassed as small children. Some of them ended up suing their close relatives for this, but then they were noticing that these memories didn't actually make sense (like a person they thought raped them was away at the time) and the memories weren't real, they just added them to their life story because therapists suggested that they could have occured. I don't know if anyone will understand what I'm talking about, it's hard to explain ;P.

Anyway, the first thing that came to my mind  after I read this; what if this is what happend to Axl? It is a logical explanation to me and even the time when he remembered what his father did to him is the same as with those people mentioned in the book. I'm curious to see what you think?

Different perspective. Thanks for sharing.

[killuridols]

19 hours ago, Ewelka said:

Hi everyone! I'm new here. I've been reading this forum for a while, but I decided to create an account just now because I have something interasting to share.

I had to read Elliot Aronson's book "The Social Animal" for one of my classes. There's a part in which he talks about the ability to think of something as your own memory from the past even though that memory isn't real. It happens when somebody else mentions to you something as an event that happened in your life and it seems 100% realistic, but you never actually expierienced it. He also said that in 80s and 90s there was a lot of people who because of their therapists realised they forgot they were raped or sexually harassed as small children. Some of them ended up suing their close relatives for this, but then they were noticing that these memories didn't actually make sense (like a person they thought raped them was away at the time) and the memories weren't real, they just added them to their life story because therapists suggested that they could have occured. I don't know if anyone will understand what I'm talking about, it's hard to explain ;P.

Anyway, the first thing that came to my mind  after I read this; what if this is what happend to Axl? It is a logical explanation to me and even the time when he remembered what his father did to him is the same as with those people mentioned in the book. I'm curious to see what you think?

Hi and welcome

We've talked something about that pages ago, when someone posted about Tom Zutaut revealing something Axl never mentioned before, which is that his father used to abuse him in some public restrooms in Indiana.

I wish I could point you to the exact page where this was discussed but conclusions were somewhat similar to what you're saying here.

It's really hard to say if he was dreaming or led by hypnosis to believe something that never happened. I always had doubts with what he said about being raped at 2 years old by his real father. Specially because most babies who have this atrocity happening to them usually die or are left terribly injured and if this really happened to him, there's no way he didnt end up in a hospital and at the hospital they should have denounced the parents. But then again, this is the 60's we're talking about and things may have been totally different to what they are now.

 

[Frey]

19 hours ago, Ewelka said:

Anyway, the first thing that came to my mind  after I read this; what if this is what happend to Axl? It is a logical explanation to me and even the time when he remembered what his father did to him is the same as with those people mentioned in the book. I'm curious to see what you think?

Yes, this possibility has been discussed a couple of times before in this thread, it came up quite recently again even.

If you want to read up on it, just go back a couple of pages or use the thread search function.

 

11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Hi and welcome

We've talked something about that pages ago, when someone posted about Tom Zutaut revealing something Axl never mentioned before, which is that his father used to abuse him in some public restrooms in Indiana.

I wish I could point you to the exact page where this was discussed but conclusions were somewhat similar to what you're saying here.

It's really hard to say if he was dreaming or led by hypnosis to believe something that never happened. I always had doubts with what he said about being raped at 2 years old by his real father. Specially because most babies who have this atrocity happening to them usually die or are left terribly injured and if this really happened to him, there's no way he didnt end up in a hospital and at the hospital they should have denounced the parents. But then again, this is the 60's we're talking about and things may have been totally different to what they are now.

This is getting really ugly, but yes, that thought has crossed my mind before because I've unfortunately come across cases like this during the line of work. And yes, you're right, babies and very young children often don't survive sexual assaults like that or are left with severe injuries. On the other hand, Axl did mention having muscle damage in his legs from that incident iirc, and he wasn't an infant anymore (the group most likely not to survive), so who knows.

 

4 hours ago, killuridols said:

I just want to saythat I don't agree with all the insults and dubious comments made on Steven's and Axl's mothers, like any of you would have been in their place and had any right to give opinion on their parenting. 

Yes, we know those kids lives and families were not good but at some point, when you become an adult you can't keep blaming your parents and families for what you do wrong in your life. This is a common mistake people do and I'm alwAys disgusted by adults who find excuses in their past for who they are in the present.

Some people's blind fanatism is what Makes it impossible to have good debates in this thread anymore.

Not a single sign of enlightenment and critical views.

This has absolutely nothing to do with blaming your parents for what went wrong in your life, fanatism or "not knowing what we would have done in their place". I'm very aware of the circumstances which can lead to situations like the one in Axl's family. Young woman with little children, no means to support herself and her children without a husband, trapped in an awful marriage, strict religious environment, etc etc.*

But, no matter how awful the situation, there's a line where you lose the right to expect sympathetic pats on the back from strangers (or kind and loving treatment from your children) if you cross it. And child abandonment (like in Steven's case), or turning a blind eye to your child getting raped by your husband- even calling him a liar and punishing him for telling you- certainly crosses that line for most people (or if you don't believe all these awful CSA stories actually happened, standing by and doing nothing while your husband beats the crap out of your kid is still horrifying enough for most people to not be overly sympathetic). No parent is perfect and and all make mistakes and damage their children in some way, but if those are the kind of "mistakes" you make as a parent, people are (rightfully) going to be disgusted or at at least raise their eyebrows if you then try to paint yourself as a loving mother burdened by your troublesome children.

*I'm not fully convinced of this entire narrative anyway in Axl's case. It's the view I most commonly see here, but going by everything we know, I get the impression that Axl's family on his mother's side wasn't particularly religious or strict (at least not by the standards of rural Indiana in the 60s). It seems like that whole religious fundamentalist aspect was brought into the picture by Axl's stepfather. Axl's grandmother on his mother's side was the woman who took him in when his own parents kicked him out and Axl adored her and sent her gifts every months until her death. Even Slash liked Axl's grandmother. Apparently she was funny and similar to Axl in character. I think Axl also talked about hearing his grandma bitch about men as a child. Strict Christian women/wifes are raised to be and expected to be meek and subservient to their husbands (and men in general), they usually do not walk around talking about how much men suck lol. All in all, this doesn't really give the impression of someone severely religious who would force their child into a marriage with another religious whackjob.

I think it's perfectly possible Axl's mother wasn't pressured into marrying the guy because she was a "tainted woman" with an illegitimate child (or two), but instead actually liked the guy and fell for him. This also fits with Axl's stepfather not being some older dude she was married off to (like we all kind of thought until we found out how old -or rather young- the guy really was), but just another kid his mom's age. Also, if Axl's stepfather is the guy in the dark polo shirt in these blurry family pictures floating around (like some people claim), then the guy seems handsome enough as far as I can tell. As awful as it sounds, I wouldn't disregard the possibility that she herself chose the guy because she liked him for whatever reasons and kept choosing him over anything else, even her own children.

 

 

 

[killuridols]

8 minutes ago, Frey said:

This is getting really ugly, but yes, that thought has crossed my mind before because I've unfortunately come across cases like this during the line of work. And yes, you're right, babies and very young children often don't survive sexual assaults like that or are left with severe injuries. On the other hand, Axl did mention having muscle damage in his legs from that incident iirc, and he wasn't an infant anymore (the group most likely not to survive), so who knows.

I know and that's why I'm wary of talking about that here.... I don't wanna give more details or conjeture much more but basically, these are the things that do not make sense to me and make me kinda doubt the whole thing.

Now I would believe the Zutaut's story much more but again, you can never know for sure.

11 minutes ago, Frey said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with blaming your parents for what went wrong in your life, fanatism or "not knowing what we would have done in their place". I'm very aware of the circumstances which can lead to situations like the one in Axl's family. Young woman with little children, no means to support herself and her children without a husband, trapped in an awful marriage, strict religious environment, etc etc.*

But, no matter how awful the situation, there's a line where you lose the right to expect sympathetic pats on the back from strangers (or kind and loving treatment from your children) if you cross it. And child abandonment (like in Steven's case), or turning a blind eye to your child getting raped by your husband- even calling him a liar and punishing him for telling you- certainly crosses that line for most people (or if you don't believe all these awful CSA stories actually happened, standing by and doing nothing while your husband beats the crap out of your kid is still horrifying enough for most people to not be overly sympathetic). No parent is perfect and and all make mistakes and damage their children in some way, but if those are the kind of "mistakes" you make as a parent, people are (rightfully) going to be disgusted or at at least raise their eyebrows if you then try to paint yourself as a loving mother burdened by your troublesome children.

*I'm not fully convinced of this entire narrative anyway in Axl's case. It's the view I most commonly see here, but going by everything we know, I get the impression that Axl's family on his mother's side wasn't particularly religious or strict (at least not by the standards of rural Indiana in the 60s). It seems like that whole religious fundamentalist aspect was brought into the picture by Axl's stepfather. Axl's grandmother on his mother's side was the woman who took him in when his own parents kicked him out and Axl adored her and sent her gifts every months until her death. Even Slash liked Axl's grandmother. Apparently she was funny and similar to Axl in character. I think Axl also talked about hearing his grandma bitch about men as a child. Strict Christian women/wifes are raised to be and expected to be meek and subservient to their husbands (and men in general), they usually do not walk around talking about how much men suck lol. All in all, this doesn't really give the impression of someone severely religious who would force their child into a marriage with another religious whackjob.

I think it's perfectly possible Axl's mother wasn't pressured into marrying the guy because she was a "tainted woman" with an illegitimate child (or two), but instead actually liked the guy and fell for him. This also fits with Axl's stepfather not being some older dude she was married off to (like we all kind of thought until we found out how old -or rather young- the guy really was), but just another kid his mom's age. Also, if Axl's stepfather is the guy in the dark polo shirt in these blurry family pictures floating around (like some people claim), then the guy seems handsome enough as far as I can tell. As awful as it sounds, I wouldn't disregard the possibility that she herself chose the guy because she liked him for whatever reasons and kept choosing him over anything else, even her own children.

I didn't say people should give these moms sympathetic pats on the back but just like with the rape story, how do we know what the children say it is all true and it happened just like they remember?

About Axl's mom, my view is that she never wanted to be a mother and I understand how hard it must have been to get pregnant at 16 and having to deal with a baby you don't want, specially when you are a kid as she was. Maybe her family was not strictly religious like you assume but it doesn't matter that much when you live in a place like that in the 60's. If they were all actually like that, it was probably a rarity and I don't think women didn't have "thoughts" about how unfair their life was back then. But there was not much you could do about it, so probably a lot of the women who thought like that, still felt like they had to get married and serve their husbands because pressure from society it is strong. Even in 2017 society expect women to become mothers and such. I don't wanna imagine the hell it was in the 70's.

Janis Joplin, with all the liberal she was and crazy life she had, at some point she thought of succumbing to that kind of life. In the middle of her career she dropped it all to try to get married to a guy she didn't need at all. A guy who didn't love her and she suffered like a pig because of that. Janis was like 2 years older than Axl's mom.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think Axl's mom did whatever the fuck she wanted, even if her family was more permissive and all, there was still a society around her that must have put a lot of pressure for her to get married. Besides, how was she going to maintain those kids?

I think it's very unfair to say that she didn't do this or that, without knowing her personality, her situation, without taking into consideration the context, the time and the culture.

I'm not trying to justify her or say she did right in not standing up for her child. She should have, of course, but then I think of myself at 17 or 18 years old in the same situation. Jesus, in 2017 there are lots of women who still cannot escape their aggressive husbands, partners, women who are killed along with their children and I always hear people talking and commenting on how stupid these women were for picking a bad guy for husband. For letting a bad guy hurt their children and I feel bad because, as a woman, I have made bad choices too. Men make a lot of mistakes in their relationships too but those "bad women" usually dont rape their kids or try to kill the guy or actually kill him, like men do with women.

So in my opinion, being so harsh on Axl and Steven mom's is wrong because we are lacking a lot of information. Even if we had it all, it would still be too easy to judge on their lives and the choices they made, because it is not us there, having to deal with all of that.

Does any of you have a drug addict in the family? a violent son? someone who suffers from a mental disease?

You don't know what that hell is until you actually enter the hell.

[tifalucis]

Steven's mom reminds me of my fucked up aunt. I had a cousin died from drugs complication and now her son, my aunt's grandson, is also into drugs right now and he's only 14. We tried to warn her to not make same mistake she did because my cousin died when she was so young, in her early 20s, and had been into drugs for years before that. My aunt keeps saying that she loves my cousin and my nephew, but she never care about them and when something's wrong she just blame it on society or other people. My nephew just wandering around, sometimes came home and steal stuffs and then missing for weeks and my aunt just sitting and smoking and being delusional that she might get rich someday. 

I know you can't judge people. Steven's mom probably had some problems. My aunt had a marriage problem, she used to have an education and job but she married wrong person and end up being delusional like that. But I pity my cousin and my nephew because my aunt neglect them, I wish I can do something about it.

[killuridols]

12 minutes ago, tifalucis said:

Steven's mom reminds me of my fucked up aunt. I had a cousin died from drugs complication and now her son, my aunt's grandson, is also into drugs right now and he's only 14. We tried to warn her to not make same mistake she did because my cousin died when she was so young, in her early 20s, and had been into drugs for years before that. My aunt keeps saying that she loves my cousin and my nephew, but she never care about them and when something's wrong she just blame it on society or other people. My nephew just wandering around, sometimes came home and steal stuffs and then missing for weeks and my aunt just sitting and smoking and being delusional that she might get rich someday. 

I know you can't judge people. Steven's mom probably had some problems. My aunt had a marriage problem, she used to have an education and job but she married wrong person and end up being delusional like that. But I pity my cousin and my nephew because my aunt neglect them, I wish I can do something about it.

That is because there is a spread image of parents being "perfect".

I don't know who fucked up person or collective of minds spreaded around this idea but in my experience, as soon as you become mature you start realizing that your parents are not the heroes you thought they were. That they are human beings, with mistakes, errors, doubts, and the worst is realizing that your parents are ignorant in some aspects.

Drugs destroy families and so do financial problems, diseases, any kind of addiction. People DO NOT know how to handle these things. They do not know how to accompany their kids into adolescence. Sometimes parents have a flawed personality or are weak. Some teenagers scream at their parents and get away with tons of shits. If the parent is a person with low self-esteem, soon they will loose authority and everything goes to hell.

I have decided not become a parent because after analyzing my own raising, the raising of friends, other relatives and seeing people raising kids now, I have come to the conclusion that parenting should be like car driving: you should pass an exam to get a license to become a parent.

Not every human is prepared to become a parent, a good one. The more and more I meet people I realize about this. And its been a huge mistake of society to put pressure on people, specially women, to become mothers and fathers just because.

 

 

[Frey]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

I didn't say people should give these moms sympathetic pats on the back but just like with the rape story, how do we know what the children say it is all true and it happened just like they remember?

About Axl's mom, my view is that she never wanted to be a mother and I understand how hard it must have been to get pregnant at 16 and having to deal with a baby you don't want, specially when you are a kid as she was. Maybe her family was not strictly religious like you assume but it doesn't matter that much when you live in a place like that in the 60's. If they were all actually like that, it was probably a rarity and I don't think women didn't have "thoughts" about how unfair their life was back then. But there was not much you could do about it, so probably a lot of the women who thought like that, still felt like they had to get married and serve their husbands because pressure from society it is strong. Even in 2017 society expect women to become mothers and such. I don't wanna imagine the hell it was in the 70's.

Janis Joplin, with all the liberal she was and crazy life she had, at some point she thought of succumbing to that kind of life. In the middle of her career she dropped it all to try to get married to a guy she didn't need at all. A guy who didn't love her and she suffered like a pig because of that. Janis was like 2 years older than Axl's mom.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think Axl's mom did whatever the fuck she wanted, even if her family was more permissive and all, there was still a society around her that must have put a lot of pressure for her to get married. Besides, how was she going to maintain those kids?

I think it's very unfair to say that she didn't do this or that, without knowing her personality, her situation, without taking into consideration the context, the time and the culture.

I'm not trying to justify her or say she did right in not standing up for her child. She should have, of course, but then I think of myself at 17 or 18 years old in the same situation. Jesus, in 2017 there are lots of women who still cannot escape their aggressive husbands, partners, women who are killed along with their children and I always hear people talking and commenting on how stupid these women were for picking a bad guy for husband. For letting a bad guy hurt their children and I feel bad because, as a woman, I have made bad choices too. Men make a lot of mistakes in their relationships too but those "bad women" usually dont rape their kids or try to kill the guy or actually kill him, like men do with women.

So in my opinion, being so harsh on Axl and Steven mom's is wrong because we are lacking a lot of information. Even if we had it all, it would still be too easy to judge on their lives and the choices they made, because it is not us there, having to deal with all of that.

Does any of you have a drug addict in the family? a violent son? someone who suffers from a mental disease?

You don't know what that hell is until you actually enter the hell.

Believe me, I'm the last person who will call women stupid for staying with their abusive hubands. I've seen enough of this shit in my life and I know how these things usually go down. What I was suggesting was more along the lines of us not actually knowing if Axl's mother falls into that category. Do we actually know if Axl's stepfather ever abused or mistreated his mother in any way? I don't remember Axl ever saying anything like that off the top of my head. But he has talked about his mother in words that suggest she was beating or abusing him as well in some ways. For all we know, Axl's stepfather was treating his mother reasonably well and they were more or less functional as a couple, and they both abused their children for whatever fucked up reasons- misguided religious convictions, unresolved resentments towards the children (if you are right with your theory about her never wanting to be a mother, this might come into play), mental health issues, etc. It happens unfortunately.

Like you said, we don't have enough information to really judge one way or another, so I can only go by what Axl and other people have said and that doesn't paint the most flattering picture (even disregarding the more dubious stories). But to be fair, I'm more inclined to give Axl's mom the benefit of the doubt than Steven's. We've never seen Axl's mom or heard her speak in person (and we know she was married to a crazy, awful douchebag), so it's harder to really form an opinion. But Steven's mother just comes across like a really, really toxic and unpleasant person and I have trouble mustering up any sympathy for her. I may also be influenced by seeing Steven talk about his mother kicking him out of the house as a child because her new boyfriend didn't want him around on celebrity rehab or something. That was a pretty gut-wrenching moment and stayed with me.

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

I know and that's why I'm wary of talking about that here.... I don't wanna give more details or conjeture much more but basically, these are the things that do not make sense to me and make me kinda doubt the whole thing.

Now I would believe the Zutaut's story much more but again, you can never know for sure.

Well, Axl went into a quite horrifying level of detail himself about that incident iirc, and if you believe his word it makes a (tiny) bit more sense (but it's still really hard to believe). Didn't he say his father had a syringe and injected something (muscle relexants?) into him? Might explain the lack of lethal or severe injuries. But then again, where would this guy even have gotten that shit from and to randomly plan something so incredibly fucked up seems far-fetched as well (meaning that's not how pedophiles usually work).

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Frey