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19 hours ago, Ewelka said:

Hi everyone! :D I'm new here. I've been reading this forum for a while, but I decided to create an account just now because I have something interasting to share.

I had to read Elliot Aronson's book "The Social Animal" for one of my classes. There's a part in which he talks about the ability to think of something as your own memory from the past even though that memory isn't real. It happens when somebody else mentions to you something as an event that happened in your life and it seems 100% realistic, but you never actually expierienced it. He also said that in 80s and 90s there was a lot of people who because of their therapists realised they forgot they were raped or sexually harassed as small children. Some of them ended up suing their close relatives for this, but then they were noticing that these memories didn't actually make sense (like a person they thought raped them was away at the time) and the memories weren't real, they just added them to their life story because therapists suggested that they could have occured. I don't know if anyone will understand what I'm talking about, it's hard to explain ;P.

Anyway, the first thing that came to my mind  after I read this; what if this is what happend to Axl? It is a logical explanation to me and even the time when he remembered what his father did to him is the same as with those people mentioned in the book. I'm curious to see what you think? :D

Hi and welcome :)

We've talked something about that pages ago, when someone posted about Tom Zutaut revealing something Axl never mentioned before, which is that his father used to abuse him in some public restrooms in Indiana.

I wish I could point you to the exact page where this was discussed but conclusions were somewhat similar to what you're saying here.

It's really hard to say if he was dreaming or led by hypnosis to believe something that never happened. I always had doubts with what he said about being raped at 2 years old by his real father. Specially because most babies who have this atrocity happening to them usually die or are left terribly injured and if this really happened to him, there's no way he didnt end up in a hospital and at the hospital they should have denounced the parents. But then again, this is the 60's we're talking about and things may have been totally different to what they are now.

:shrugs:

 

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19 hours ago, Ewelka said:

Anyway, the first thing that came to my mind  after I read this; what if this is what happend to Axl? It is a logical explanation to me and even the time when he remembered what his father did to him is the same as with those people mentioned in the book. I'm curious to see what you think? :D

Yes, this possibility has been discussed a couple of times before in this thread, it came up quite recently again even.

If you want to read up on it, just go back a couple of pages or use the thread search function.

 

11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Hi and welcome :)

We've talked something about that pages ago, when someone posted about Tom Zutaut revealing something Axl never mentioned before, which is that his father used to abuse him in some public restrooms in Indiana.

I wish I could point you to the exact page where this was discussed but conclusions were somewhat similar to what you're saying here.

It's really hard to say if he was dreaming or led by hypnosis to believe something that never happened. I always had doubts with what he said about being raped at 2 years old by his real father. Specially because most babies who have this atrocity happening to them usually die or are left terribly injured and if this really happened to him, there's no way he didnt end up in a hospital and at the hospital they should have denounced the parents. But then again, this is the 60's we're talking about and things may have been totally different to what they are now.

:shrugs:

This is getting really ugly, but yes, that thought has crossed my mind before because I've unfortunately come across cases like this during the line of work. And yes, you're right, babies and very young children often don't survive sexual assaults like that or are left with severe injuries. On the other hand, Axl did mention having muscle damage in his legs from that incident iirc, and he wasn't an infant anymore (the group most likely not to survive), so who knows. :wacko:

 

4 hours ago, killuridols said:

I just want to saythat I don't agree with all the insults and dubious comments made on Steven's and Axl's mothers, like any of you would have been in their place and had any right to give opinion on their parenting. 

Yes, we know those kids lives and families were not good but at some point, when you become an adult you can't keep blaming your parents and families for what you do wrong in your life. This is a common mistake people do and I'm alwAys disgusted by adults who find excuses in their past for who they are in the present.

Some people's blind fanatism is what Makes it impossible to have good debates in this thread anymore.

Not a single sign of enlightenment and critical views.

This has absolutely nothing to do with blaming your parents for what went wrong in your life, fanatism or "not knowing what we would have done in their place". I'm very aware of the circumstances which can lead to situations like the one in Axl's family. Young woman with little children, no means to support herself and her children without a husband, trapped in an awful marriage, strict religious environment, etc etc.*

But, no matter how awful the situation, there's a line where you lose the right to expect sympathetic pats on the back from strangers (or kind and loving treatment from your children) if you cross it. And child abandonment (like in Steven's case), or turning a blind eye to your child getting raped by your husband- even calling him a liar and punishing him for telling you- certainly crosses that line for most people (or if you don't believe all these awful CSA stories actually happened, standing by and doing nothing while your husband beats the crap out of your kid is still horrifying enough for most people to not be overly sympathetic). No parent is perfect and and all make mistakes and damage their children in some way, but if those are the kind of "mistakes" you make as a parent, people are (rightfully) going to be disgusted or at at least raise their eyebrows if you then try to paint yourself as a loving mother burdened by your troublesome children.

*I'm not fully convinced of this entire narrative anyway in Axl's case. It's the view I most commonly see here, but going by everything we know, I get the impression that Axl's family on his mother's side wasn't particularly religious or strict (at least not by the standards of rural Indiana in the 60s). It seems like that whole religious fundamentalist aspect was brought into the picture by Axl's stepfather. Axl's grandmother on his mother's side was the woman who took him in when his own parents kicked him out and Axl adored her and sent her gifts every months until her death. Even Slash liked Axl's grandmother. Apparently she was funny and similar to Axl in character. I think Axl also talked about hearing his grandma bitch about men as a child. Strict Christian women/wifes are raised to be and expected to be meek and subservient to their husbands (and men in general), they usually do not walk around talking about how much men suck lol. All in all, this doesn't really give the impression of someone severely religious who would force their child into a marriage with another religious whackjob.

I think it's perfectly possible Axl's mother wasn't pressured into marrying the guy because she was a "tainted woman" with an illegitimate child (or two), but instead actually liked the guy and fell for him. This also fits with Axl's stepfather not being some older dude she was married off to (like we all kind of thought until we found out how old -or rather young- the guy really was), but just another kid his mom's age. Also, if Axl's stepfather is the guy in the dark polo shirt in these blurry family pictures floating around (like some people claim), then the guy seems handsome enough as far as I can tell. As awful as it sounds, I wouldn't disregard the possibility that she herself chose the guy because she liked him for whatever reasons and kept choosing him over anything else, even her own children.

 


 

 

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8 minutes ago, Frey said:

This is getting really ugly, but yes, that thought has crossed my mind before because I've unfortunately come across cases like this during the line of work. And yes, you're right, babies and very young children often don't survive sexual assaults like that or are left with severe injuries. On the other hand, Axl did mention having muscle damage in his legs from that incident iirc, and he wasn't an infant anymore (the group most likely not to survive), so who knows. :wacko:

I know and that's why I'm wary of talking about that here.... I don't wanna give more details or conjeture much more but basically, these are the things that do not make sense to me and make me kinda doubt the whole thing.

Now I would believe the Zutaut's story much more but again, you can never know for sure.

11 minutes ago, Frey said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with blaming your parents for what went wrong in your life, fanatism or "not knowing what we would have done in their place". I'm very aware of the circumstances which can lead to situations like the one in Axl's family. Young woman with little children, no means to support herself and her children without a husband, trapped in an awful marriage, strict religious environment, etc etc.*

But, no matter how awful the situation, there's a line where you lose the right to expect sympathetic pats on the back from strangers (or kind and loving treatment from your children) if you cross it. And child abandonment (like in Steven's case), or turning a blind eye to your child getting raped by your husband- even calling him a liar and punishing him for telling you- certainly crosses that line for most people (or if you don't believe all these awful CSA stories actually happened, standing by and doing nothing while your husband beats the crap out of your kid is still horrifying enough for most people to not be overly sympathetic). No parent is perfect and and all make mistakes and damage their children in some way, but if those are the kind of "mistakes" you make as a parent, people are (rightfully) going to be disgusted or at at least raise their eyebrows if you then try to paint yourself as a loving mother burdened by your troublesome children.

*I'm not fully convinced of this entire narrative anyway in Axl's case. It's the view I most commonly see here, but going by everything we know, I get the impression that Axl's family on his mother's side wasn't particularly religious or strict (at least not by the standards of rural Indiana in the 60s). It seems like that whole religious fundamentalist aspect was brought into the picture by Axl's stepfather. Axl's grandmother on his mother's side was the woman who took him in when his own parents kicked him out and Axl adored her and sent her gifts every months until her death. Even Slash liked Axl's grandmother. Apparently she was funny and similar to Axl in character. I think Axl also talked about hearing his grandma bitch about men as a child. Strict Christian women/wifes are raised to be and expected to be meek and subservient to their husbands (and men in general), they usually do not walk around talking about how much men suck lol. All in all, this doesn't really give the impression of someone severely religious who would force their child into a marriage with another religious whackjob.

I think it's perfectly possible Axl's mother wasn't pressured into marrying the guy because she was a "tainted woman" with an illegitimate child (or two), but instead actually liked the guy and fell for him. This also fits with Axl's stepfather not being some older dude she was married off to (like we all kind of thought until we found out how old -or rather young- the guy really was), but just another kid his mom's age. Also, if Axl's stepfather is the guy in the dark polo shirt in these blurry family pictures floating around (like some people claim), then the guy seems handsome enough as far as I can tell. As awful as it sounds, I wouldn't disregard the possibility that she herself chose the guy because she liked him for whatever reasons and kept choosing him over anything else, even her own children.

I didn't say people should give these moms sympathetic pats on the back but just like with the rape story, how do we know what the children say it is all true and it happened just like they remember? :shrugs:

About Axl's mom, my view is that she never wanted to be a mother and I understand how hard it must have been to get pregnant at 16 and having to deal with a baby you don't want, specially when you are a kid as she was. Maybe her family was not strictly religious like you assume but it doesn't matter that much when you live in a place like that in the 60's. If they were all actually like that, it was probably a rarity and I don't think women didn't have "thoughts" about how unfair their life was back then. But there was not much you could do about it, so probably a lot of the women who thought like that, still felt like they had to get married and serve their husbands because pressure from society it is strong. Even in 2017 society expect women to become mothers and such. I don't wanna imagine the hell it was in the 70's.

Janis Joplin, with all the liberal she was and crazy life she had, at some point she thought of succumbing to that kind of life. In the middle of her career she dropped it all to try to get married to a guy she didn't need at all. A guy who didn't love her and she suffered like a pig because of that. Janis was like 2 years older than Axl's mom.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think Axl's mom did whatever the fuck she wanted, even if her family was more permissive and all, there was still a society around her that must have put a lot of pressure for her to get married. Besides, how was she going to maintain those kids?

I think it's very unfair to say that she didn't do this or that, without knowing her personality, her situation, without taking into consideration the context, the time and the culture.

I'm not trying to justify her or say she did right in not standing up for her child. She should have, of course, but then I think of myself at 17 or 18 years old in the same situation. Jesus, in 2017 there are lots of women who still cannot escape their aggressive husbands, partners, women who are killed along with their children and I always hear people talking and commenting on how stupid these women were for picking a bad guy for husband. For letting a bad guy hurt their children and I feel bad because, as a woman, I have made bad choices too. Men make a lot of mistakes in their relationships too but those "bad women" usually dont rape their kids or try to kill the guy or actually kill him, like men do with women.

So in my opinion, being so harsh on Axl and Steven mom's is wrong because we are lacking a lot of information. Even if we had it all, it would still be too easy to judge on their lives and the choices they made, because it is not us there, having to deal with all of that.

Does any of you have a drug addict in the family? a violent son? someone who suffers from a mental disease?

You don't know what that hell is until you actually enter the hell.

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Steven's mom reminds me of my fucked up aunt. I had a cousin died from drugs complication and now her son, my aunt's grandson, is also into drugs right now and he's only 14. We tried to warn her to not make same mistake she did because my cousin died when she was so young, in her early 20s, and had been into drugs for years before that. My aunt keeps saying that she loves my cousin and my nephew, but she never care about them and when something's wrong she just blame it on society or other people. My nephew just wandering around, sometimes came home and steal stuffs and then missing for weeks and my aunt just sitting and smoking and being delusional that she might get rich someday. :facepalm:

I know you can't judge people. Steven's mom probably had some problems. My aunt had a marriage problem, she used to have an education and job but she married wrong person and end up being delusional like that. But I pity my cousin and my nephew because my aunt neglect them, I wish I can do something about it.

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12 minutes ago, tifalucis said:

Steven's mom reminds me of my fucked up aunt. I had a cousin died from drugs complication and now her son, my aunt's grandson, is also into drugs right now and he's only 14. We tried to warn her to not make same mistake she did because my cousin died when she was so young, in her early 20s, and had been into drugs for years before that. My aunt keeps saying that she loves my cousin and my nephew, but she never care about them and when something's wrong she just blame it on society or other people. My nephew just wandering around, sometimes came home and steal stuffs and then missing for weeks and my aunt just sitting and smoking and being delusional that she might get rich someday. :facepalm:

I know you can't judge people. Steven's mom probably had some problems. My aunt had a marriage problem, she used to have an education and job but she married wrong person and end up being delusional like that. But I pity my cousin and my nephew because my aunt neglect them, I wish I can do something about it.

That is because there is a spread image of parents being "perfect".

I don't know who fucked up person or collective of minds spreaded around this idea but in my experience, as soon as you become mature you start realizing that your parents are not the heroes you thought they were. That they are human beings, with mistakes, errors, doubts, and the worst is realizing that your parents are ignorant in some aspects.

Drugs destroy families and so do financial problems, diseases, any kind of addiction. People DO NOT know how to handle these things. They do not know how to accompany their kids into adolescence. Sometimes parents have a flawed personality or are weak. Some teenagers scream at their parents and get away with tons of shits. If the parent is a person with low self-esteem, soon they will loose authority and everything goes to hell.

I have decided not become a parent because after analyzing my own raising, the raising of friends, other relatives and seeing people raising kids now, I have come to the conclusion that parenting should be like car driving: you should pass an exam to get a license to become a parent.

Not every human is prepared to become a parent, a good one. The more and more I meet people I realize about this. And its been a huge mistake of society to put pressure on people, specially women, to become mothers and fathers just because.

 

 

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

I didn't say people should give these moms sympathetic pats on the back but just like with the rape story, how do we know what the children say it is all true and it happened just like they remember? :shrugs:

About Axl's mom, my view is that she never wanted to be a mother and I understand how hard it must have been to get pregnant at 16 and having to deal with a baby you don't want, specially when you are a kid as she was. Maybe her family was not strictly religious like you assume but it doesn't matter that much when you live in a place like that in the 60's. If they were all actually like that, it was probably a rarity and I don't think women didn't have "thoughts" about how unfair their life was back then. But there was not much you could do about it, so probably a lot of the women who thought like that, still felt like they had to get married and serve their husbands because pressure from society it is strong. Even in 2017 society expect women to become mothers and such. I don't wanna imagine the hell it was in the 70's.

Janis Joplin, with all the liberal she was and crazy life she had, at some point she thought of succumbing to that kind of life. In the middle of her career she dropped it all to try to get married to a guy she didn't need at all. A guy who didn't love her and she suffered like a pig because of that. Janis was like 2 years older than Axl's mom.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think Axl's mom did whatever the fuck she wanted, even if her family was more permissive and all, there was still a society around her that must have put a lot of pressure for her to get married. Besides, how was she going to maintain those kids?

I think it's very unfair to say that she didn't do this or that, without knowing her personality, her situation, without taking into consideration the context, the time and the culture.

I'm not trying to justify her or say she did right in not standing up for her child. She should have, of course, but then I think of myself at 17 or 18 years old in the same situation. Jesus, in 2017 there are lots of women who still cannot escape their aggressive husbands, partners, women who are killed along with their children and I always hear people talking and commenting on how stupid these women were for picking a bad guy for husband. For letting a bad guy hurt their children and I feel bad because, as a woman, I have made bad choices too. Men make a lot of mistakes in their relationships too but those "bad women" usually dont rape their kids or try to kill the guy or actually kill him, like men do with women.

So in my opinion, being so harsh on Axl and Steven mom's is wrong because we are lacking a lot of information. Even if we had it all, it would still be too easy to judge on their lives and the choices they made, because it is not us there, having to deal with all of that.

Does any of you have a drug addict in the family? a violent son? someone who suffers from a mental disease?

You don't know what that hell is until you actually enter the hell.

Believe me, I'm the last person who will call women stupid for staying with their abusive hubands. I've seen enough of this shit in my life and I know how these things usually go down. What I was suggesting was more along the lines of us not actually knowing if Axl's mother falls into that category. Do we actually know if Axl's stepfather ever abused or mistreated his mother in any way? I don't remember Axl ever saying anything like that off the top of my head. But he has talked about his mother in words that suggest she was beating or abusing him as well in some ways. For all we know, Axl's stepfather was treating his mother reasonably well and they were more or less functional as a couple, and they both abused their children for whatever fucked up reasons- misguided religious convictions, unresolved resentments towards the children (if you are right with your theory about her never wanting to be a mother, this might come into play), mental health issues, etc. It happens unfortunately.

Like you said, we don't have enough information to really judge one way or another, so I can only go by what Axl and other people have said and that doesn't paint the most flattering picture (even disregarding the more dubious stories). But to be fair, I'm more inclined to give Axl's mom the benefit of the doubt than Steven's. We've never seen Axl's mom or heard her speak in person (and we know she was married to a crazy, awful douchebag), so it's harder to really form an opinion. But Steven's mother just comes across like a really, really toxic and unpleasant person and I have trouble mustering up any sympathy for her. I may also be influenced by seeing Steven talk about his mother kicking him out of the house as a child because her new boyfriend didn't want him around on celebrity rehab or something. That was a pretty gut-wrenching moment and stayed with me.

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

I know and that's why I'm wary of talking about that here.... I don't wanna give more details or conjeture much more but basically, these are the things that do not make sense to me and make me kinda doubt the whole thing.

Now I would believe the Zutaut's story much more but again, you can never know for sure.

Well, Axl went into a quite horrifying level of detail himself about that incident iirc, and if you believe his word it makes a (tiny) bit more sense (but it's still really hard to believe). Didn't he say his father had a syringe and injected something (muscle relexants?) into him? Might explain the lack of lethal or severe injuries. But then again, where would this guy even have gotten that shit from and to randomly plan something so incredibly fucked up seems far-fetched as well (meaning that's not how pedophiles usually work).

 

 

 

Edited by Frey

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On 07/02/2017 at 0:06 AM, Ewelka said:

Hi everyone! :D I'm new here. I've been reading this forum for a while, but I decided to create an account just now because I have something interasting to share.

I had to read Elliot Aronson's book "The Social Animal" for one of my classes. There's a part in which he talks about the ability to think of something as your own memory from the past even though that memory isn't real. It happens when somebody else mentions to you something as an event that happened in your life and it seems 100% realistic, but you never actually expierienced it. He also said that in 80s and 90s there was a lot of people who because of their therapists realised they forgot they were raped or sexually harassed as small children. Some of them ended up suing their close relatives for this, but then they were noticing that these memories didn't actually make sense (like a person they thought raped them was away at the time) and the memories weren't real, they just added them to their life story because therapists suggested that they could have occured. I don't know if anyone will understand what I'm talking about, it's hard to explain ;P.

Anyway, the first thing that came to my mind  after I read this; what if this is what happend to Axl? It is a logical explanation to me and even the time when he remembered what his father did to him is the same as with those people mentioned in the book. I'm curious to see what you think? :D

5 hours ago, killuridols said:

Hi and welcome :)

We've talked something about that pages ago, when someone posted about Tom Zutaut revealing something Axl never mentioned before, which is that his father used to abuse him in some public restrooms in Indiana.

I wish I could point you to the exact page where this was discussed but conclusions were somewhat similar to what you're saying here.

It's really hard to say if he was dreaming or led by hypnosis to believe something that never happened. I always had doubts with what he said about being raped at 2 years old by his real father. Specially because most babies who have this atrocity happening to them usually die or are left terribly injured and if this really happened to him, there's no way he didnt end up in a hospital and at the hospital they should have denounced the parents. But then again, this is the 60's we're talking about and things may have been totally different to what they are now.

:shrugs:

3 hours ago, Frey said:

This is getting really ugly, but yes, that thought has crossed my mind before because I've unfortunately come across cases like this during the line of work. And yes, you're right, babies and very young children often don't survive sexual assaults like that or are left with severe injuries. On the other hand, Axl did mention having muscle damage in his legs from that incident iirc, and he wasn't an infant anymore (the group most likely not to survive), so who knows. :wacko:

 

I agree that the fact that these stories were the result of regression therapy makes them questionable (although Axl believed/believes them). There is also another thing: there are two stories of sexual abuse involving different people, one that Axl has told in public and one he hasn't. Even though I don't consider it improbable, I wonder if it's too far-fetched and what are the odds for a kid to be subsequently abused by both his biological father and his stepfather.

As far as the case of his real father goes, Axl had said in an interview (Musician 1992 - it has been brought up here before)  that he couldn't be 100% sure it happened, but the relief he felt when it was revealed made him think that it was true; and when he talked about the flashback he had while driving, he didn't say what he remembered at that moment exactly. In the RS interview he said he remembered the injection and his father doing something very bad to his mother. I'm thinking that this might be a case of a real memory being modified and "enhanced" by the regression therapy process. His father could have used the injection to keep the kid calm while he was doing something to his mother. Of course an experience like that alone could be traumatic for a 2 year old child.

I think that between the two stories the more likely to be true is the one Tom Zutaut told (even though Axl never talked about it in public), because the possibility of real/direct memory is bigger, as Axl was older when it allegedly happened.

-----

About the mothers: I agree with the distinction @Frey made between Steven's and Axl's mother. Axl's mother never spoke and all we know about her role is what Axl said, which portrays her as a rather passive woman without the ability or the strength to react or stand for/against something. I assume that these lines from Right Next Door To Hell are Axl's and not Izzy's:

My mamma never really said much to me
She was much too young and scared ta be
Hell "Freud" might say that's what I need

Edited by Blackstar
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2 hours ago, Frey said:

Believe me, I'm the last person who will call women stupid for staying with their abusive hubands. I've seen enough of this shit in my life and I know how these things usually go down. What I was suggesting was more along the lines of us not actually knowing if Axl's mother falls into that category. Do we actually know if Axl's stepfather ever abused or mistreated his mother in any way? I don't remember Axl ever saying anything like that off the top of my head. But he has talked about his mother in words that suggest she was beating or abusing him as well in some ways. For all we know, Axl's stepfather was treating his mother reasonably well and they were more or less functional as a couple, and they both abused their children for whatever fucked up reasons- misguided religious convictions, unresolved resentments towards the children (if you are right with your theory about her never wanting to be a mother, this might come into play), mental health issues, etc. It happens unfortunately.

Like you said, we don't have enough information to really judge one way or another, so I can only go by what Axl and other people have said and that doesn't paint the most flattering picture (even disregarding the more dubious stories). But to be fair, I'm more inclined to give Axl's mom the benefit of the doubt than Steven's. We've never seen Axl's mom or heard her speak in person (and we know she was married to a crazy, awful douchebag), so it's harder to really form an opinion. But Steven's mother just comes across like a really, really toxic and unpleasant person and I have trouble mustering up any sympathy for her. I may also be influenced by seeing Steven talk about his mother kicking him out of the house as a child because her new boyfriend didn't want him around on celebrity rehab or something. That was a pretty gut-wrenching moment and stayed with me.

Well, Axl went into a quite horrifying level of detail himself about that incident iirc, and if you believe his word it makes a (tiny) bit more sense (but it's still really hard to believe). Didn't he say his father had a syringe and injected something (muscle relexants?) into him? Might explain the lack of lethal or severe injuries. But then again, where would this guy even have gotten that shit from and to randomly plan something so incredibly fucked up seems far-fetched as well (meaning that's not how pedophiles usually work).

Yeah, I think Axl said he once saw his father mistreating his mother or something like so it shouldn't be discarded. This type of abusive men usually mistreat everybody in the family, even the pets.

I don't know what to say about the relationship between Axl's mother and the stepfather.... It all could look like flowers and rainbows on the outside and be a fucking hell inside the home. It is usually like that and no one ever suspects anything. Specially in the 60's and before that.

I feel like when Axl spoke about this he was so full of rage and trying to understand why his life was so fucked up. I have gone through the same, all the time hating and un-hating my upbringing, my parents, blaming everybody----- It is very difficult to try to understand your past and what happened to you. Then I reflect and exercise putting myself in their shoes and of course Im always saying "I would have done this better" or "how come these idiots didn't do this or that" and then I realize that I am a different person, that I live in a different time, that my parents were raised in a different time too by people that may have been ignorant as well...... it is all a huge ball of mess when you think about it.

Again, she probably was not the best mother on earth. At 16 who can be a good mother anyway? and when I think of the possibility of standing up for Axl when the father was beating him I also think how hard it is for a woman, any woman, to go in battle with a man, unless you have a gun or a stick, the man will always beat you down. This is my experience and something i had to learn the wrong way: never fight a guy, you will lose like at war.

The possibilities in that regard go from her being scared to hell of the guy; knowing that upsetting him could unleash worse consequences; knowing that confronting him would leave her and her kids in the street to total denial and neglection of what was going on around her, for fear, for ignorance, for just being comfortable?

Like I said, not every woman has a mother instinct... even when they have a child, that instinct sometimes doesn't wake up and there are tons of women who do not love their children. This is an upsetting truth that most people do not want to acknowledge and accept but it is real. So I figure that a woman who never wanted to be a mother, has to become one by force, then of course she won't have feelings for the kid. It may be a psychological problem, a personality problem or just the way the person is.

It is very sad and awful to say it and to think about it and that's why we have to fight to let women run their life as they want and stop nagging them to have children when they don't want to and to have abortions legally. A lot of trauma and lifetime wounds can be saved if you dont force a woman to become a mother.

As for the last part of your post, the injections and such... I don't know but again, could a 2 years old baby be able to put up with injections like that? Muscle relaxants wouldn't prevent the baby from bleeding (geez I dont wanna go into this...) and being injured anyway by the presence of you know what from an adult man.

So to make it short, I dont think a 2 year old can come out unscathered from sexual abuse and this is the main reason why I doubt this story.

 

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So we can post all these theories  about Axl, but we can't make a "Happy Birthday Duff" thread?  OKkkkaaayyyyy.......

Anyhow, looks like Grandpa just walked right onto the plane the minute his boy arrived in Sydney.  Duff's twitter (sorry having troubling posting the whole thing):

Told we had to stay on plane last night in Sydney; 'airport security' wanted to do a check. We waited. It was Angus Young is an orange vest!

Ok Slash, time to bring your A game.  

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29 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yeah, I think Axl said he once saw his father mistreating his mother or something like so it shouldn't be discarded. This type of abusive men usually mistreat everybody in the family, even the pets.

I don't know what to say about the relationship between Axl's mother and the stepfather.... It all could look like flowers and rainbows on the outside and be a fucking hell inside the home. It is usually like that and no one ever suspects anything. Specially in the 60's and before that.

I feel like when Axl spoke about this he was so full of rage and trying to understand why his life was so fucked up. I have gone through the same, all the time hating and un-hating my upbringing, my parents, blaming everybody----- It is very difficult to try to understand your past and what happened to you. Then I reflect and exercise putting myself in their shoes and of course Im always saying "I would have done this better" or "how come these idiots didn't do this or that" and then I realize that I am a different person, that I live in a different time, that my parents were raised in a different time too by people that may have been ignorant as well...... it is all a huge ball of mess when you think about it.

Again, she probably was not the best mother on earth. At 16 who can be a good mother anyway? and when I think of the possibility of standing up for Axl when the father was beating him I also think how hard it is for a woman, any woman, to go in battle with a man, unless you have a gun or a stick, the man will always beat you down. This is my experience and something i had to learn the wrong way: never fight a guy, you will lose like at war.

The possibilities in that regard go from her being scared to hell of the guy; knowing that upsetting him could unleash worse consequences; knowing that confronting him would leave her and her kids in the street to total denial and neglection of what was going on around her, for fear, for ignorance, for just being comfortable?

Like I said, not every woman has a mother instinct... even when they have a child, that instinct sometimes doesn't wake up and there are tons of women who do not love their children. This is an upsetting truth that most people do not want to acknowledge and accept but it is real. So I figure that a woman who never wanted to be a mother, has to become one by force, then of course she won't have feelings for the kid. It may be a psychological problem, a personality problem or just the way the person is.

It is very sad and awful to say it and to think about it and that's why we have to fight to let women run their life as they want and stop nagging them to have children when they don't want to and to have abortions legally. A lot of trauma and lifetime wounds can be saved if you dont force a woman to become a mother.

As for the last part of your post, the injections and such... I don't know but again, could a 2 years old baby be able to put up with injections like that? Muscle relaxants wouldn't prevent the baby from bleeding (geez I dont wanna go into this...) and being injured anyway by the presence of you know what from an adult man.

So to make it short, I dont think a 2 year old can come out unscathered from sexual abuse and this is the main reason why I doubt this story.

 

Well to me i heard he has some hip or leg injury since he was secually abused and Tom Zutaut also told a story of him being raped so to me no matter what age it was he was definiatly raped i dont think he would lie about it, even if it was through regression therapy i do fully believe he was raped

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13 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

So we can post all these theories  about Axl, but we can't make a "Happy Birthday Duff" thread?  OKkkkaaayyyyy.......

Anyhow, looks like Grandpa just walked right onto the plane the minute his boy arrived in Sydney.  Duff's twitter (sorry having troubling posting the whole thing):

Told we had to stay on plane last night in Sydney; 'airport security' wanted to do a check. We waited. It was Angus Young is an orange vest!

Ok Slash, time to bring your A game.  

What?! Grandpa Angus is too sweet :rofl-lol:

C'mon Slash, this should be a good battle for Axl's affection :headbang:

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14 minutes ago, Mary Cochrane said:

Well to me i heard he has some hip or leg injury since he was secually abused and Tom Zutaut also told a story of him being raped so to me no matter what age it was he was definiatly raped i dont think he would lie about it, even if it was through regression therapy i do fully believe he was raped

that you believe in ufo's doesn't make them real. :rolleyes:

We have discussed both things above and other pages. You should read it again, with some pauses in between.

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7 minutes ago, tifalucis said:

What?! Grandpa Angus is too sweet :rofl-lol:

C'mon Slash, this should be a good battle for Axl's affection :headbang:

#TeamGrandpaAngus:wub:

:rofl-lol::popcorn:

 

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1 minute ago, killuridols said:

that you believe in ufo's doesn't make them real. :rolleyes:

We have discussed both things above and other pages. You should read it again, with some pauses in between.

Very true :) i have read all of it from page 1 to up till now and i dont know to me it... kind of fits in to place its very muddled up but at some point in his younger life i believe it happened :) xxx 

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26 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

So we can post all these theories  about Axl, but we can't make a "Happy Birthday Duff" thread?  OKkkkaaayyyyy.......

Anyhow, looks like Grandpa just walked right onto the plane the minute his boy arrived in Sydney.  Duff's twitter (sorry having troubling posting the whole thing):

Told we had to stay on plane last night in Sydney; 'airport security' wanted to do a check. We waited. It was Angus Young is an orange vest!

Ok Slash, time to bring your A game.  

Out of likes ;)

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9 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

 

#TeamGrandpaAngus:wub:

:rofl-lol::popcorn:

 

You know Axl loves big gestures  ----putting on the orange vest and surprising him on the plane is pretty sweet.  I hope Kat or someone took a picture of that moment. I'd love to see it.  

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5 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

You know Axl loves big gestures  ----putting on the orange vest and surprising him on the plane is pretty sweet.  I hope Kat or someone took a picture of that moment. I'd love to see it.  

I know I was hoping the same thing...damn would love to see the Sydney shows :headbang:

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Just now, BlueJean Baby said:

I know I was hoping the same thing...damn would love to see the Sydney shows :headbang:

I tried to win the tickets to the Sydney show through The River during the cash and concerts contest. I came damn close.

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2 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

I tried to win the tickets to the Sydney show through The River during the cash and concerts contest. I came damn close.

I thought about entering but don't have a passport...:P

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