GNR Women's discussion

[killuridols]

7 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

@killuridols

 

omg thank you!!!!!

Edited June 22, 2016 by killuridols

[stella]

1 hour ago, Lumikki said:

Lol, I agree about Buckethead giving off creepy Michael Jackson vibes. Always felt the same way. Not sure if it would really have to be as bad as child porn, bestiality or anything like that though to disturb Axl.

 

I hate to say it, because I love Buckethead's playing...but yeah. He comes off as being very, very weird. I would really, really hope that it's nothing like what MJ was apparently involved in. But on the other hand Buckethead also seems like he could very easily have autism or Aspergers. I know people who have worked at venues with Buckethead and they have said that he's painfully shy and strange, but doesn't give anyone any issues at all. It also seems like the mask is the only way he's able to get onstage and perform; he's that shy and socially awkward.

I didn't hear the thing about Axl being disturbed by what he was watching in the studio - that gives me pause, too, because Axl seems like he's not a prude in the least. If he was disturbed by it, yeah. On the other hand is it possible that Axl just didn't really want anyone watching porn in general in the studio when they should have been working? I don't know.

Edited June 22, 2016 by stella

[stella]

In terms of Axl and interviews about sex, there's also the first Rolling Stone interview. He really doesn't say anything too outrageous here. All he says is that he likes having sex with a lot of different people without commitment. I guess that could be an issue if you were in a relationship with him and wanted monogamy, but it's certainly not particularly out there.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-rolling-stone-interview-axl-rose-19890810

Women seem to be one of the more popular subjects with Guns n' Roses. Are you a romantic kind of guy?
I'm a person that has a lot of different relationships. It's really hard to maintain a one-on-one relationship if the other person is not going to allow me to be with other people. I have a real open, hedonistic, sexual attitude. Just 'cause you're not totally in love with a person doesn't mean you don't like them. You can think they're attractive, and you want to touch them, have a great time with them. Maybe at that moment you are in love. I think love and lust go hand in hand, like good and evil. One without the other is not complete. But I don't tell someone I'm in love with them if I'm not. I never have.

You'd describe yourself as promiscuous then?
I have sex as often as possible.

Don't you ever think about contracting AIDS?
Yeah, but I also live in a city that's supposed to get the big quake any day. You can get killed on the freeway in a drive-by shooting, the food's irradiated, there's a million ways to go out. A lot of times, sexual situations are very spontaneous, but I try not to be overly careless.

So you practice safe sex?
Practicing safe sex . . . I like the word practice. It means keep doing it, keep repeating the process, get it right. Practice makes perfect. I don't know if it'll get perfect, but you can get a lot better. Just keep practicing.

[Lumikki]

@stella That was the quote about Axl, Buckethead and the porn:

"If the coop seemed an extreme accommodation to artistic stimulation, it didn’t compare to Buckethead’s next request: a TV setup so he can watch porn movies while recording. “And that seemed to really inspire him to record some great stuff,” Zutaut says.

The guitarist was deep into it one evening when Rose turned up. “Axl sees that Bucket is running this porn,” Zutaut recalls. “And it is pretty hardcore stuff. It’s not soft porn by any stretch of the imagination. And Axl is really disturbed by it.” Zutaut explained the situation to Rose, but the singer was not moved.“He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record.”

Makes me curious to know what Axl considers "dirty and depraved" and disturbing. But from what Zutaut says, it doesn't exactly sound like child porn or bestiality. Just something that is not your average soft porn. Another site I came across while googling said it was BDSM porn. So my best guess is Axl does not like hardcore BDSM/torture porn type of stuff. Can't say I blame him. I would be pretty disturbed as well seeing that guy sit around for hours watching violent pornography

 

EDIT: Found the entire thing on another forum. The original source (guitarworld magazine) doesn't exist anymore, so I copied the entire thing over from there.

What Zutaut asked, could he do to make the recording experience better for him? Suddenly, says Zutaut, “he went into Buckethead mode. I was talking to Brian, who was confiding in me, and suddenly he was Buckethead, and he was telling me some story about how his mum was a hen and his dad was a rooster. I couldn’t tell whether it was fantasy or reality or who I was even talking to. But he believed it!

“Then it’s like Brian comes back and he’s kinda saying, ‘You know I’d really like to make a movie of my life story and how I was raised in a chicken coop. It’s the only place where I really feel comfortable.’ ”

Zutaut had a brainstorm. “I said, ‘What if we built you a chicken coop in the studio for you to record your guitar parts?’ His jaw dropped. He said, ‘Would you really do that?’ And I said, ‘Well, it’s my job to find out whatever it is that will help you get the best creativity out of yourself.’ Buckethead said, ‘If I could have my own chicken coop in the studio, my own world to live in, I could play a lot better.’ ”

Two days later, the coop was built. “It’s like an apartment within the studio that’s a chicken coop,” Zutaut explains. “He’s got his chair and a little sofa in there, and there’s, like, a rubber chicken with its head cut off hanging from the ceiling, and body parts. It’s totally Buckethead’s world. He brought in all his props and toys and put straw on the floor! You could almost smell the chickens.”

Aside from assistant engineers who would adjust microphones, no one but Buckethead was allowed in the coop. “You could not destroy the spirit and karmic vibe of the coop, his personal retreat,” Zutaut says. “You could stand outside and talk, looking through, but nobody was allowed in there.”

Beta Lebeis stresses that the coop was just a bit of fun. “In every band, people have their own ways of being creative—their own things that are personal to them,” she says, “and Buckethead loved chicken coops. And he loved cemeteries. He just loved that shit. So it was just a fun thing to do.

“And [the coop] didn’t cost money or anything. People say, ‘Oh my gosh, that’s part of the money we spent on the album.’ It has nothing to do with that. It’s something you do in three or four hours just for fun, to play a joke on somebody.”

As the weeks went by, the joke started to wear thin. “There was a bit of creative tension with Roy Thomas Baker,” Zutaut says. “Not because Roy is doing anything wrong or isn’t a great producer or anything like that. But you know, some people have friction. It’s like oil and water. It might have been cultural differences.”

If the coop seemed an extreme accommodation to artistic stimulation, it didn’t compare to Buckethead’s next request: a TV setup so he can watch porn movies while recording. “And that seemed to really inspire him to record some great stuff,” Zutaut says.

The guitarist was deep into it one evening when Rose turned up. “Axl sees that Bucket is running this porn,” Zutaut recalls. “And it is pretty hardcore stuff. It’s not soft porn by any stretch of the imagination. And Axl is really disturbed by it.” Zutaut explained the situation to Rose, but the singer was not moved. “He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music,” Zutaut says. “He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record. It is really not what this record is about, you know?’ ”

The story sheds much light on Rose’s philosophy about the creative process. “Axl is a firm believer that the energy, or soul, of everyone involved in the process comes through in the final artistic piece,” Zutaut explains. “So he works really hard to make sure what comes in and goes out is pure and right for his vision. Which is why Axl was always very disturbed about the former Gunners’ heroin use and what effect it had on their creativity.”

Rose spoke with Buckethead and explained his position. “Then Axl left, and Bucket was pretty despondent,” Zutaut says. “He disappeared for a few days because he was pretty torn up about it. Not because he was angry or because he thought he should be able to watch what he wants. I think it was more because of the emotional implications that Axl brought up to him: that it wasn’t right to be inspired by shit like that.”

If that wasn’t weird enough, there was also an occasion where Buckethead appeared to be inspired by shit itself. One of Rose’s wolfdogs— a hybrid that is three-quarters timber wolf and one-quarter dog—had recently given birth, and the singer had offered one of the pups to Zutaut’s daughter, who had recently lost her own dog. A few days afterward, he brought in the puppy. “And it’s the cutest little thing,” says Zutaut, “but it goes into the chicken coop and takes a dump. And because no one is allowed in there, we wait for Bucket to come in so that we can get his permission to clean it up. So Bucket shows up later to work on his parts, and he is miked up so he can record and we hear through the speaker, ‘Oh, I love the smell of dog poop…’

Zutaut recalls that Baker or one of his engineers offered to have the mess cleaned up. “And Bucket says, ‘Don’t take it away. I love the smell of dog poop..’ Three days later, the studio stinks to high heaven of dog poop, and finally the studio could not bear it and had it cleaned up. When Bucket came in the next day, he was like ‘Where is my dog poop, man? I told them not to clean it up,’ and was generally bummed out that it had been cleaned up. And in the meantime, the wolf puppy poop had inspired him for a few days to do some great work.”

----------------------------

I had forgotten the wolf poop story. Jesus Christ

Also I finally know now what exactly Axl's wolves are. Always wondered about that. One quarter dog apparently.

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Lumikki

[killuridols]

24 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

@stella That was the quote about Axl, Buckethead and the porn:

"If the coop seemed an extreme accommodation to artistic stimulation, it didn’t compare to Buckethead’s next request: a TV setup so he can watch porn movies while recording. “And that seemed to really inspire him to record some great stuff,” Zutaut says.

The guitarist was deep into it one evening when Rose turned up. “Axl sees that Bucket is running this porn,” Zutaut recalls. “And it is pretty hardcore stuff. It’s not soft porn by any stretch of the imagination. And Axl is really disturbed by it.” Zutaut explained the situation to Rose, but the singer was not moved.“He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record.”

Makes me curious to know what Axl considers "dirty and depraved" and disturbing. But from what Zutaut says, it doesn't exactly sound like child porn or bestiality. Just something that is not your average soft porn. Another site I came across while googling said it was BDSM porn. So my best guess is Axl does not like hardcore BDSM/torture porn type of stuff. Can't say I blame him. I would be pretty disturbed as well seeing that guy sit around for hours watching violent pornography

EDIT: Found the entire thing on another forum. The original source (guitarworld magazine) doesn't exist anymore, so I copied the entire thing over from there.

What Zutaut asked, could he do to make the recording experience better for him? Suddenly, says Zutaut, “he went into Buckethead mode. I was talking to Brian, who was confiding in me, and suddenly he was Buckethead, and he was telling me some story about how his mum was a hen and his dad was a rooster. I couldn’t tell whether it was fantasy or reality or who I was even talking to. But he believed it!

“Then it’s like Brian comes back and he’s kinda saying, ‘You know I’d really like to make a movie of my life story and how I was raised in a chicken coop. It’s the only place where I really feel comfortable.’ ”

Zutaut had a brainstorm. “I said, ‘What if we built you a chicken coop in the studio for you to record your guitar parts?’ His jaw dropped. He said, ‘Would you really do that?’ And I said, ‘Well, it’s my job to find out whatever it is that will help you get the best creativity out of yourself.’ Buckethead said, ‘If I could have my own chicken coop in the studio, my own world to live in, I could play a lot better.’ ”

Two days later, the coop was built. “It’s like an apartment within the studio that’s a chicken coop,” Zutaut explains. “He’s got his chair and a little sofa in there, and there’s, like, a rubber chicken with its head cut off hanging from the ceiling, and body parts. It’s totally Buckethead’s world. He brought in all his props and toys and put straw on the floor! You could almost smell the chickens.”

Aside from assistant engineers who would adjust microphones, no one but Buckethead was allowed in the coop. “You could not destroy the spirit and karmic vibe of the coop, his personal retreat,” Zutaut says. “You could stand outside and talk, looking through, but nobody was allowed in there.”

Beta Lebeis stresses that the coop was just a bit of fun. “In every band, people have their own ways of being creative—their own things that are personal to them,” she says, “and Buckethead loved chicken coops. And he loved cemeteries. He just loved that shit. So it was just a fun thing to do.

“And [the coop] didn’t cost money or anything. People say, ‘Oh my gosh, that’s part of the money we spent on the album.’ It has nothing to do with that. It’s something you do in three or four hours just for fun, to play a joke on somebody.”

As the weeks went by, the joke started to wear thin. “There was a bit of creative tension with Roy Thomas Baker,” Zutaut says. “Not because Roy is doing anything wrong or isn’t a great producer or anything like that. But you know, some people have friction. It’s like oil and water. It might have been cultural differences.”

If the coop seemed an extreme accommodation to artistic stimulation, it didn’t compare to Buckethead’s next request: a TV setup so he can watch porn movies while recording. “And that seemed to really inspire him to record some great stuff,” Zutaut says.

The guitarist was deep into it one evening when Rose turned up. “Axl sees that Bucket is running this porn,” Zutaut recalls. “And it is pretty hardcore stuff. It’s not soft porn by any stretch of the imagination. And Axl is really disturbed by it.” Zutaut explained the situation to Rose, but the singer was not moved. “He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music,” Zutaut says. “He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record. It is really not what this record is about, you know?’ ”

The story sheds much light on Rose’s philosophy about the creative process. “Axl is a firm believer that the energy, or soul, of everyone involved in the process comes through in the final artistic piece,” Zutaut explains. “So he works really hard to make sure what comes in and goes out is pure and right for his vision. Which is why Axl was always very disturbed about the former Gunners’ heroin use and what effect it had on their creativity.”

Rose spoke with Buckethead and explained his position. “Then Axl left, and Bucket was pretty despondent,” Zutaut says. “He disappeared for a few days because he was pretty torn up about it. Not because he was angry or because he thought he should be able to watch what he wants. I think it was more because of the emotional implications that Axl brought up to him: that it wasn’t right to be inspired by shit like that.”

If that wasn’t weird enough, there was also an occasion where Buckethead appeared to be inspired by shit itself. One of Rose’s wolfdogs— a hybrid that is three-quarters timber wolf and one-quarter dog—had recently given birth, and the singer had offered one of the pups to Zutaut’s daughter, who had recently lost her own dog. A few days afterward, he brought in the puppy. “And it’s the cutest little thing,” says Zutaut, “but it goes into the chicken coop and takes a dump. And because no one is allowed in there, we wait for Bucket to come in so that we can get his permission to clean it up. So Bucket shows up later to work on his parts, and he is miked up so he can record and we hear through the speaker, ‘Oh, I love the smell of dog poop…’

Zutaut recalls that Baker or one of his engineers offered to have the mess cleaned up. “And Bucket says, ‘Don’t take it away. I love the smell of dog poop..’ Three days later, the studio stinks to high heaven of dog poop, and finally the studio could not bear it and had it cleaned up. When Bucket came in the next day, he was like ‘Where is my dog poop, man? I told them not to clean it up,’ and was generally bummed out that it had been cleaned up. And in the meantime, the wolf puppy poop had inspired him for a few days to do some great work.”

----------------------------

I had forgotten the wolf poop story. Jesus Christ

Also I finally know now what exactly Axl's wolves are. Always wondered about that. One quarter dog apparently.

 

Holy jebus where to start with all this crap!?

ok. um. So Axl has changed a lot since the 80's? He was disturbed by Buckethead's porn that he used for inspiration BUT Axl himself recorded a sexual act and added it to Rocket Queen? Didn't Axl and Erin wear sado-maso costumes and recorded a video where he's slapping her ass and she's tied to a door or something?

None of that makes sense to me. What is depraved and dirty sex for Axl? FOR AXL!?!

That's why I can only think of bestiality (since he loves animals). Ok, not child porn. But what else? Something involving wounds, blood, rape simulation? Probably that last one.

 

As for the rest, I don't know what the hell... One thing I find odd is that Tom Zutaut is always the one involved with telling those kind of weird stories. He's the one who talked about Axl believing that when Slash died he was replaced but someone else's soul. Lol. It's all bullshit!! They have reunited and Axl doesn't think that about Slash

I feel like Zutaut is the person in charge of making up stories like this so to increase the mystique of the band. It is always him coming up with that stuff. Some of it may be true but other things may be exaggerated. Buckethead is a weirdo but come on. I really don't know what to think.

If Axl doesn't want musicians to get inspired by dirty awful things, then why dog poop was allowed but not hardcore porn?

[stella]

19 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Holy jebus where to start with all this crap!?

ok. um. So Axl has changed a lot since the 80's? He was disturbed by Buckethead's porn that he used for inspiration BUT Axl himself recorded a sexual act and added it to Rocket Queen? Didn't Axl and Erin wear sado-maso costumes and recorded a video where he's slapping her ass and she's tied to a door or something?

None of that makes sense to me. What is depraved and dirty sex for Axl? FOR AXL!?!

That's why I can only think of bestiality (since he loves animals). Ok, not child porn. But what else? Something involving wounds, blood, rape simulation? Probably that last one.

 

As for the rest, I don't know what the hell... One thing I find odd is that Tom Zutaut is always the one involved with telling those kind of weird stories. He's the one who talked about Axl believing that when Slash died he was replaced but someone else's soul. Lol. It's all bullshit!! They have reunited and Axl doesn't think that about Slash

I feel like Zutaut is the person in charge of making up stories like this so to increase the mystique of the band. It is always him coming up with that stuff. Some of it may be true but other things may be exaggerated. Buckethead is a weirdo but come on. I really don't know what to think.

If Axl doesn't want musicians to get inspired by dirty awful things, then why dog poop was allowed but not hardcore porn?

Given Axl's background of being abused, and going through years of therapy to work on his own issues with violence toward others, it actually makes sense to me that he would be disturbed or upset by very hardcore porn depicting sexual assault and violence. When one thinks about what those new reports about what was found in Michael Jackson's house and the reports that occasionally come out about adult performers who say that they have been really raped on camera (Linda Lovelace actually said this, IIRC, and there have been others) - it's clear there's some very sick shit out there.

From what I know, true BSDM is always supposed to be consensual - you might be spanking someone the way Axl was doing in that video, but there's a safeword, the limits are worked out in advance, and it's understood that when someone wants to stop, they stop. And the Rocket Queen thing was also consensual. They were both adults and they fully and knowledgeably consented to have sex in a studio, record the noises, and allow them to be used on a song. There doesn't seem to be anyone who was abused or coerced in any way with it. The engineer apparently didn't want to record it or be there when they were having sex; he was allowed to leave without any protests and someone else worked in the sound booth.

 

That's all very different from depictions of actual sexual violence or torture.
 

[killuridols]

10 minutes ago, stella said:

Given Axl's background of being abused, and going through years of therapy to work on his own issues with violence toward others, it actually makes sense to me that he would be disturbed or upset by very hardcore porn depicting sexual assault and violence. When one thinks about what those new reports about what was found in Michael Jackson's house and the reports that occasionally come out about adult performers who say that they have been really raped on camera (Linda Lovelace actually said this, IIRC, and there have been others) - it's clear there's some very sick shit out there.

From what I know, true BSDM is always supposed to be consensual - you might be spanking someone the way Axl was doing in that video, but there's a safeword, the limits are worked out in advance, and it's understood that when someone wants to stop, they stop. And the Rocket Queen thing was also consensual. They were both adults and they fully and knowledgeably consented to have sex in a studio, record the noises, and allow them to be used on a song. There doesn't seem to be anyone who was abused or coerced in any way with it. The engineer apparently didn't want to record it or be there when they were having sex; he was allowed to leave without any protests and someone else worked in the sound booth.

 

That's all very different from depictions of actual sexual violence or torture.
 

Ok, but... what kind of porn was Buckethead watching then? Real recordings of some sexual assault or porn movies? Because if it's a movie or an amateur video, it is consensual too.

[Mysecretobsessionaxl]

5 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Maybe he invented the term 

My profile picture here is from the night, not sure if it's THE jump or not 

Yes!! That's the infamous jump that put him in a cast??

[Eric Cantona]

Page 69

[Frey]

Yeah, what Axl and Adriana did was just have plain old vanilla sex. Pretty boring and unspectacular. And Axl and Erin were just pretending to have some mild bdsm type scenes in that video. Both these things, and everything else Axl has ever said about sex sounds pretty harmless and not very exciting or unusual.

That's a huuuge difference to what it sounds like Buckethead was watching. People in pain (fake or otherwise), bleeding, getting tortured or raped... that's a whole other ballpark compared to watching two girls make out with each other or watching your guitarist fuck a groupie or whatever it is that gets Axl off. And I agree with Axl, I think that kind of stuff is sick as well and I'm suspicious as fuck of people who are so obsessively into that kind of thing.

[killuridols]

16 minutes ago, Frey said:

Yeah, what Axl and Adriana did was just have plain old vanilla sex. Pretty boring and unspectacular. And Axl and Erin were just pretending to have some mild bdsm type scenes in that video. Both these things, and everything else Axl has ever said about sex sounds pretty harmless and not very exciting or unusual.

That's a huuuge difference to what it sounds like Buckethead was watching. People in pain (fake or otherwise), bleeding, getting tortured or raped... that's a whole other ballpark compared to watching two girls make out with each other or watching your guitarist fuck a groupie or whatever it is that gets Axl off. And I agree with Axl, I think that kind of stuff is sick as well and I'm suspicious as fuck of people who are so obsessively into that kind of thing.

Again, we REALLY don't know what Buckethead was watching. The only description is "hardcore porn". Bleeding, torture and rape, that's something I said, lol.

[Frey]

10 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Again, we REALLY don't know what Buckethead was watching. The only description is "hardcore porn". Bleeding, torture and rape, that's something I said, lol.

Yeah, I know, but that kind of stuff is very common in hardcore porn. That's why it's called hardcore porn in the first place  I mean when I think of hardcore porn, the things that I associate with it are violence, humiliation, unusual and/or dangerous sex acts, non-consensual appearing bdsm etc. 

And also, Axl is not a prude. It would have to be reasonably heavy shit to upset him. 

Edited June 23, 2016 by Frey

[stella]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Ok, but... what kind of porn was Buckethead watching then? Real recordings of some sexual assault or porn movies? Because if it's a movie or an amateur video, it is consensual too.

That's the thing...some of those films that are passed around aren't actually consensual and the "actors" are there through coercion or worse. And some of them, even if they are consensual, depict some pretty heinous things. I can understand why Axl wouldn't want that around.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/06/13/national/crime-legal/former-tokyo-talent-agency-boss-arrested-model-forced-star-porn-video/

http://theweek.com/articles/461273/girls-film-how-lovelace-fails-tell-real-story

Edited June 23, 2016 by stella

[killuridols]

Buckethead guitars should be removed from Chinese Democracy songs then

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, Lumikki said:

I don't really buy that stuff about Axl either. With the exception of him liking to watch two women together (and which guy doesn't?), nothing that is said about him actually comes from him, like @killuridols said. It's mostly all just gossip and sensationalist stories from unreliable sources.

He implied that he was violent during sex because of a perverted perception he had of what it is to be a "man"; he attributed it to self-depreciation due to childhood trauma.

Apart from what Axl has said regarding this matter or what it has been said about him (including the Erin and Stephanie lawsuits), if we believe Slash about Axl "seeing what he sang" particularly when it had to do with women, it's a bit scary to imagine what he was seeing during this:

3 hours ago, Lumikki said:

Slash and Duff in this interview also say that you really, really don't want to be around Axl when he's in one of his moods

 

I remember Gina Siler said exactly the same in the interview you posted some time ago. The most interesting part is what she said about the electric chair-straightjacket scene of the WTTJ video. It's impressive if Axl could act in that video like when he was really out of control; or maybe he wasn't acting?

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

And omg Duff and Slash from that era are just like Beavis & Butthead and you can tell when those two teamed up to shit on Axl, they were really mean. Really MEAN

So I have no doubts Axl is right when he says he didn't feel appreciated by them or that they bullied him. It pretty much looks like that from that video. Also, there's another video where Duff is screaming to Axl "stupid, hey stupid". Axl is riding a bike...

But don't get me wrong. I'm sure all of this was mostly due to drugs and alcohol. Look at Slash in that interview, he's almost falling from the sofa. "When the band was all on heroin..." comes to my mind. For sure, they fought a lot and I'm not saying Axl was an angel. I don't doubt either that he had a temper and got into a lot of shit with them but who knows how things really started. If Duff & Slash acted like in that video with Axl, it's easy to figure out why Axl would be a jerk to them.

It's funny too they say in the interview that they don't believe they're gonna last together for 10 years, 10 months, not even 10 weeks. So deep inside they knew the band was going to implode anytime.

As far as my knowledge and recollection go, there hasn't been a case of another band, old or new, where its members talked about each other like this in public (and meant it) while they were still bandmates. Back in the day, with the limited access to interviews etc I had, I doubted that all this was real and I was inclined to believe that part of it had to do with promotion, i.e. with the band's image as "unconventional". But it turned out they were honest.

About the video with Axl riding a bike though, I don't think there's anything more in it than them acting like ten-year-olds. Duff screamed "hey stupid" and Axl came and spat on him , but he was laughing and didn't seem irritated.

55 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Never heard Axl take the piss out of any of them, Hes said negative things but never really ridiculed them. Imo. 

Yeah, this is pretty much accurate. In fact Axl said negative, and sometimes pretty ugly, things about the others only after they had left the band. As far as I can remember, there was only one occasion in which Axl exposed them in public while they were still in the band; it was when he said that "some members are dancing with Mr. Brownstone" at the Rolling Stones concert. He wasn't lying, of course, but I understand why they were hurt (Slash had said he would never forgive Axl for that). Even if Axl's intention was to make them come round, this isn't the right way to help a friend with drug addiction.

@Lumikki, @stella, @Frey about Buckethead and the porn:

Maybe the stuff Buckethead was watching was, as you said, so sick and violent that went beyond Axl's limits. Another explanation of why Axl was so disturbed could be the phase he was going through at that time (the "new age" thing and a related perception of "purity") combined with how serious he is about the process of making a record.

“He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music,” Zutaut says. “He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record. It is really not what this record is about, you know?’ ”

Axl didn't want the record to be about sex, drugs and decadence like AFD, but about "nobler" things and "healing", so even if what Buckethead was watching was something Axl could have watched in the AFD years, he may have considered it a "negative vibe" and "contaminating" to the music he was creating.

[killuridols]

I didn't understand what @Blackstar meant with that WTTJ video 

Buckethead was already impure and negative. I don't think that was the first time he was watching that kind of porn so if Axl believes these things then CD is rotten and contaminated with Buckethead's guitars.

[Blackstar]

47 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I didn't understand what @Blackstar meant with that WTTJ video 

Gina Siler said that when Axl was out of control he looked exactly like this:

Edited June 23, 2016 by Blackstar

[MillionsOfSpiders]

46 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I didn't understand what @Blackstar meant with that WTTJ video 

Buckethead was already impure and negative. I don't think that was the first time he was watching that kind of porn so if Axl believes these things then CD is rotten and contaminated with Buckethead's guitars.

Buckethead definitely had a creepy vibe going on. walking around in a mask with a KFC bucket on your head, well. The weird stories didn't help much either, like demanding to be taken to Disneyland and having a chicken coop built in the studio.  

Ive listened to his solo albums and I can't make any sense of them, they just sound rubbish to me :/ 

[stella]

With Buckethead, he has so many different albums with different styles. I don't tend to like his more disjointed metal shredding stuff, but I enjoy his more melodic, moody songs a lot. He did an entire album of more soothing music for his mom when she was sick, which I thought was really sweet. This is one of the songs he wrote for his mom - and even though he's wearing a mask, you can really see how much this song means to him and how much emotion he's pouring into it.

 

[stella]

5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

He implied that he was violent during sex because of a perverted perception he had of what it is to be a "man"; he attributed it to self-depreciation due to childhood trauma.

Apart from what Axl has said regarding this matter or what it has been said about him (including the Erin and Stephanie lawsuits), if we believe Slash about Axl "seeing what he sang" particularly when it had to do with women, it's a bit scary to imagine what he was seeing during this:

I remember Gina Siler said exactly the same in the interview you posted some time ago. The most interesting part is what she said about the electric chair-straightjacket scene of the WTTJ video. It's impressive if Axl could act in that video like when he was really out of control; or maybe he wasn't acting?

As far as my knowledge and recollection go, there hasn't been a case of another band, old or new, where its members talked about each other like this in public (and meant it) while they were still bandmates. Back in the day, with the limited access to interviews etc I had, I doubted that all this was real and I was inclined to believe that part of it had to do with promotion, i.e. with the band's image as "unconventional". But it turned out they were honest.

About the video with Axl riding a bike though, I don't think there's anything more in it than them acting like ten-year-olds. Duff screamed "hey stupid" and Axl came and spat on him , but he was laughing and didn't seem irritated.

Yeah, this is pretty much accurate. In fact Axl said negative, and sometimes pretty ugly, things about the others only after they had left the band. As far as I can remember, there was only one occasion in which Axl exposed them in public while they were still in the band; it was when he said that "some members are dancing with Mr. Brownstone" at the Rolling Stones concert. He wasn't lying, of course, but I understand why they were hurt (Slash had said he would never forgive Axl for that). Even if Axl's intention was to make them come round, this isn't the right way to help a friend with drug addiction.

@Lumikki, @stella, @Frey about Buckethead and the porn:

Maybe the stuff Buckethead was watching was, as you said, so sick and violent that went beyond Axl's limits. Another explanation of why Axl was so disturbed could be the phase he was going through at that time (the "new age" thing and a related perception of "purity") combined with how serious he is about the process of making a record.

“He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music,” Zutaut says. “He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record. It is really not what this record is about, you know?’ ”

Axl didn't want the record to be about sex, drugs and decadence like AFD, but about "nobler" things and "healing", so even if what Buckethead was watching was something Axl could have watched in the AFD years, he may have considered it a "negative vibe" and "contaminating" to the music he was creating.

I agree. There were times in the old days where they really seemed to be at odds, and it was unbelievably hostile at times. There's some video from the UYI tour where Slash gets hurts onstage and has to go take care of it, and he somehow says something Axl misunderstands or doesn't hear right, and Axl immediately gets angry at him. It seems as though there was a lot of walking on eggshells.

And I also think that perhaps they all had so much going on - drugs, mental health, relationships, coping with newfound fame and fortune - that they were all on their own islands, so to speak, and weren't really seeing how their actions hurt their bandmates or anyone else. Someone once mentioned here (in this thread?) that Axl started showing up on time during NuGuns when he realized that his lateness really hurt the crew, and during some NuGuns shows they actually were trying to make sure everyone could get home when the shows ran late.

I agree about Axl's comments about Mr. Brownstone, too. Given the time period and all that was happening he was apparently at the end of his tether, but publicly embarrassing or angering someone on drugs usually doesn't inspire them to quit.

I also agree that the Duff bike video is harmless. That's just two young men being goofy.

And the hypothesis about Axl just wanting CD to be more pure - that makes sense to me too. I do tend to lean toward the "really offensive porn" hypothesis because it seems to fall in line with Bucket's weirdness, but both are possible, and Axl didn't want bad vibes on that record.

Edited June 23, 2016 by stella

[oaka]

40 minutes ago, stella said:

I agree. There were times in the old days where they really seemed to be at odds, and it was unbelievably hostile at times. There's some video from the UYI tour where Slash gets hurts onstage and has to go take care of it, and he somehow says something Axl misunderstands or doesn't hear right, and Axl immediately gets angry at him. It seems as though there was a lot of walking on eggshells.

 

it was actually Axl who got hurt on stage - he cut his hand. He went backstage to take care of it and then Slash said sth like : "This is not a costume change", Axl was listening from the monitors backstage and misheard that (I believe that he thought that Slash said that it was a costume stage), he rushed into the stage and this followed : 

 

Axl later apologised for that in an interview with Del James on RIP magazine. 

Axl : "(...) I thought I heard him take a potshot at me. (...) I came back on stage and I was a dick to him and told him I'd kick his fucking ass in front of 20,000 people. That was fucked up. I was wrong and I apologised the second I realized I was mistaken. Someone who is supporting me as strongly as he does is a hand I never want to bite"

Edited June 23, 2016 by oaka

[stella]

16 minutes ago, oaka said:

it was actually Axl who got hurt on stage - he cut his hand. He went backstage to take care of it and then Slash said sth like : "This is not a costume change", Axl was listening from the monitors backstage and misheard that (I believe that he thought that Slash said that it was a costume stage), he rushed into the stage and this followed : 

 

Axl later apologised for that in an interview with Del James on RIP magazine. 

Axl : "(...) Ithought I heard him take a potshot at me. (...) I came back on stage and I was a dickto him and told him I'd kick his fucking ass in front of 20,000 people. That was fucked up. I was wrong and I apologised the second I realized Iwas mistaken. Someone who is supporting me as strongly as he does is a hand I never want to bite"

Ah, thank you for the clarifications on that! I saw the video of it year ago and the details were way fuzzy.

I am glad Axl apologized for it. It was a bizarre situation, and it seemed to escalate so quickly.

Those Slash-Axl lions are awesome.

[Lumikki]

11 hours ago, stella said:

Given Axl's background of being abused, and going through years of therapy to work on his own issues with violence toward others, it actually makes sense to me that he would be disturbed or upset by very hardcore porn depicting sexual assault and violence.

Yes, that thought came to my mind as well.

10 hours ago, stella said:

That's the thing...some of those films that are passed around aren't actually consensual and the "actors" are there through coercion or worse. And some of them, even if they are consensual, depict some pretty heinous things. I can understand why Axl wouldn't want that around.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/06/13/national/crime-legal/former-tokyo-talent-agency-boss-arrested-model-forced-star-porn-video/

http://theweek.com/articles/461273/girls-film-how-lovelace-fails-tell-real-story

Yes, there have been a lot of cases recently where porn actors have come forward and talked about being pressured/coerced/blackmailed into things. And about all the injuries and health problems they suffered because of it. Call me a prude, but I think the entire industry is shady as fuck and very exploitative of women.

 

11 hours ago, killuridols said:

As for the rest, I don't know what the hell... One thing I find odd is that Tom Zutaut is always the one involved with telling those kind of weird stories. He's the one who talked about Axl believing that when Slash died he was replaced but someone else's soul. Lol. It's all bullshit!! They have reunited and Axl doesn't think that about Slash

Yeah, Tom Zutaut... whether it's Slash's soul leaving his body, Axl being raped by his stepfather in public toilets or all these weird stories about Buckethead... Tom Zutaut always talks about the most WTF/horrifying shit. I don't know what his deal is, but I really hope he wouldn't just make up stuff like the story about Axl and his stepfather for some bizarre reason.

 

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

He implied that he was violent during sex because of a perverted perception he had of what it is to be a "man"; he attributed it to self-depreciation due to childhood trauma.

Apart from what Axl has said regarding this matter or what it has been said about him (including the Erin and Stephanie lawsuits), if we believe Slash about Axl "seeing what he sang" particularly when it had to do with women, it's a bit scary to imagine what he was seeing during this:

I remember Gina Siler said exactly the same in the interview you posted some time ago. The most interesting part is what she said about the electric chair-straightjacket scene of the WTTJ video. It's impressive if Axl could act in that video like when he was really out of control; or maybe he wasn't acting?

You mean this quote (and some bits that came before that), right?

RIP: How do you think your childhood traumas affected your adult sexuality?

AXL: I couldn't be with someone sexually in a nice way, because I was made to feel like I was doing something wrong - even if it was someone I liked. The only way I could enjoy sex was if I got into being the "bad guy." Finally I grew tired of being the bad guy. I love this person I'm with. Why do I have to always maintain a low level of self-esteem in order to feel alright? I don't feel alright feeling like a piece of shit, and I don't want to be a f?!king piece of shit. Even though it was put into my head years ago, by reading up on abuse and doing the work I'm doing, I've found out that's how it works. It's a real weird thing to have to deal with. You know, I'm grown up now. That was a long time ago. I'm supposed to have gotten past that. Yeah, maybe.

I'll admit this does give off some disturbingly "Criminial minds" type of vibes, but not "being with someone sexually in a nice way" or "being the bad guy" doesn't necessarily have to mean he was (generally) really violent during sex or anything. It could just mean he couldn't let himself be as gentle, loving or "open" (as he recently called it) as he wanted to be and that he was in a pretty bad headspace while having sex.

But whatever he meant, I think the important thing here is that he says he didn't like being that way and that it made him feel like shit. I see that quote as saying that he was a certain way because of his past, which left him pretty messed up in many ways, but that he wanted to move on from that and not be like that anymore because it made him feel terrible. That's very different from someone who's just kinky and into hardcore sex because that's just what they get off on.

As for Gina Siler, she just said Axl could be terrifying when he was in one of his moods and came at you from across the room, iirc. Nothing necessarily sexual about that. I always took that to mean as her implying that he could be violent sometimes. Same as we know from Erin and Stephanie. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt at all that everything they said happened. I can believe every word Erin said, even about Axl raping her. And I don't want to make excuses or anything, but all that violence in my eyes is just a result of him being such a fucked-up person, whether due to his childhood, mental health issues or both. And again, he was very, very unhappy about that. So miserable in fact that he tried to find help in all kinds of crazy places and went through insane amounts of therapy. This discussion started off as debating how kinky Axl (and the other guys) were and I guess what it comes down to for me is that yes, Axl probably has done some horrible shit, but he isn't a ridiculously "kinky", sadistic or sexually violent person as a rule and he doesn't want to be that way either. For me there is a difference between someone who's done fucked-up shit because he was a really messed-up person and then tried really hard to get away from all that, and someone who is just really kinky or depraved because that's just what turns them on and they don't have any problem with it. Am I making sense? I'm sorry, it's a little difficult for me to express what I'm thinking in English at times.

 

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

As far as my knowledge and recollection go, there hasn't been a case of another band, old or new, where its members talked about each other like this in public (and meant it) while they were still bandmates. Back in the day, with the limited access to interviews etc I had, I doubted that all this was real and I was inclined to believe that part of it had to do with promotion, i.e. with the band's image as "unconventional". But it turned out they were honest.

About the video with Axl riding a bike though, I don't think there's anything more in it than them acting like ten-year-olds. Duff screamed "hey stupid" and Axl came and spat on him , but he was laughing and didn't seem irritated.

Yeah, this is pretty much accurate. In fact Axl said negative, and sometimes pretty ugly, things about the others only after they had left the band. As far as I can remember, there was only one occasion in which Axl exposed them in public while they were still in the band; it was when he said that "some members are dancing with Mr. Brownstone" at the Rolling Stones concert. He wasn't lying, of course, but I understand why they were hurt (Slash had said he would never forgive Axl for that). Even if Axl's intention was to make them come round, this isn't the right way to help a friend with drug addiction.

@Lumikki, @stella, @Frey about Buckethead and the porn:

Maybe the stuff Buckethead was watching was, as you said, so sick and violent that went beyond Axl's limits. Another explanation of why Axl was so disturbed could be the phase he was going through at that time (the "new age" thing and a related perception of "purity") combined with how serious he is about the process of making a record.

“He said music is about energy and we are transferring a creative spirit and vibe within the music,” Zutaut says. “He said, ‘I really can’t have the vibe of dirty depraved porn being a part of my record. It is really not what this record is about, you know?’ ”

Axl didn't want the record to be about sex, drugs and decadence like AFD, but about "nobler" things and "healing", so even if what Buckethead was watching was something Axl could have watched in the AFD years, he may have considered it a "negative vibe" and "contaminating" to the music he was creating.

I agree with everything you said about the band. 

As for Buckethead's porn, I don't think these two explainations necessarily exclude each other. They could go hand in hand, especially considering Axl's way to "healing" mostly led through all kinds of new age type of stuff as well.

 

1 hour ago, stella said:

I agree. There were times in the old days where they really seemed to be at odds, and it was unbelievably hostile at times. There's some video from the UYI tour where Slash gets hurts onstage and has to go take care of it, and he somehow says something Axl misunderstands or doesn't hear right, and Axl immediately gets angry at him. It seems as though there was a lot of walking on eggshells.

And I also think that perhaps they all had so much going on - drugs, mental health, relationships, coping with newfound fame and fortune - that they were all on their own islands, so to speak, and weren't really seeing how their actions hurt their bandmates or anyone else. Someone once mentioned here (in this thread?) that Axl started showing up on time during NuGuns when he realized that his lateness really hurt the crew, and during some NuGuns shows they actually were trying to make sure everyone could get home when the shows ran late.

I agree about Axl's comments about Mr. Brownstone, too. Given the time period and all that was happening he was apparently at the end of his tether, but publicly embarrassing or angering someone on drugs usually doesn't inspire them to quit.

Even Duff (or Slash maybe?) once used the phrase "walking on eggshells" to describe being around Axl, iirc. I remember reading a post somewhere about Axl being abusive towards his band mates. Might sound extreme to some, but in a way it's true. If you feel you constantly need to walk on eggshells around someone or you say you do everything you can to stay away from them, then something is terribly wrong already. And Axl publically embarrassing and humiliating Slash for example has never sat well with me, even if he didn't know what else to do anymore (like the Mr. Brownstone incident, though there is no excuse for the incident where Axl cut his hand and misheard Slash for example). Not to mention that Steven talked about Axl even being physically violent towards him multiple times. Axl really was incredibly messed up. They all were in a way, but Axl certainly takes the cake.

 

@oaka Thanks for posting that. I always thought that was an interesting audio. It shows how ridiculously small the things were that could set Axl off (I mean, even if Slash really had said "costume change", so what? That's no reason to freak out like that. Not to mention that it's true, Axl had -and still has- frequent costume changes on stage) and how he over-reacts to stuff.

But yes, I'm also glad Axl at least apologized. Despite what is often claimed here on the forum, he does seem capable of doing that at least.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Lumikki

[oaka]

@Lumikki I think it shows the tension between the band members at the time. Any little thing could start a huge fight (and a public one!), they were on each other's throats and it seems like they were waiting for any excuse or misunderstanding to pick a fight! It's quite telling.

Axl got offended because he thought that Slash told the audience that Axl was not on stage just because of a "costume change", when in fact he was dealing with a badly cut hand. He thought it was cheap jibe at his expense. Imagine how furious he must have been! 

Of course it was Axl's mistake (maybe fueled by other people as well...), because Slash did not say it was a costume change. It shows how a lot of problems in this band  have come about because of misunderstandings...

Edited June 23, 2016 by oaka

[Lumikki]

51 minutes ago, oaka said:

Axl got offended because he thought that Slash told the audience that Axl was not on stage just because of a "costume change", when in fact he was dealing with a badly cut hand. He thought it was cheap jibe at his expense. Imagine how furious he must have been! 

Yes I know, but it still is baffling behaviour to me. If I had been in his place, I would have been annoyed or hurt maybe, and I would probably have resolved to say something to Slash about this after the show, maybe even yelled at him. But to drag it out in public like that and make a huge spectacle of it in front of thousands of people? No way. It's a band playing on stage and not a cage fighting match, they're supposed to at least appear like a cohesive and united whole.

Axl could have just briefly explained to the audience that he hurt his hand and be done with it and have a talk with Slash afterwards. But the way he handled it caused nothing but unnecessary drama and was humiliating for Slash. He didn't even give Slash a chance to defend himself. I'm not surprised Slash said he never forgave Axl for the Mr. Brownstone incident and probably also shit like this, I would have been seething as well.

But hey, expecting the people in this band to act reasonable is (was) probably way too much to ask and it's my own fault for doing that

On a happier note, this picture was in one of the recent promo video clips and hasn't been posted here yet I think. I'm looking forward to much more of that

Edited June 23, 2016 by Lumikki