If That Ain't Country

[classicrawker]

2 hours ago, J Dog said:

I'm a Gram Parsons fan. He's kind of folky isn't he? A lot of his stuff reminds me of like, hardcore traditional Americana country, like John Denver or something. I like him though. I wouldn't put him up there with cats like Hank Sr. or Merle Haggard or Waylon Jennings, but he's good. Another one that died too soon. About the mainstream thing, country fans don't really care about that. We actually don't mind that we have our own little thing tucked back in the woods, couldn't care less if the mainstream likes it. Nashville cares, they want their superstars out there. But for true county fans you can keep the mainstream.

I like Sweetheart of the Rodeo. Wouldn't call it great country, but it's a good attempt I think. The story behind the making/production/end of the Parsons Byrds era is an interesting story, you should read up on that if you haven't already. I like the Burritos too. Like with the Byrds, I wouldn't call it great, groundbreaking county, but it's a good genuine attempt.

That's the difference to me between that stuff and The Stones' country stuff. Those were all genuine attempts at making real country music. Stones don't feel genuine. The actual music is good enough, I can dig the music. Mick kills it for me. His voice on those songs. Sounds like mockery and ridicule and more of a dig than anything. Most country fans I know feel the same way. Even Len agrees with me, we've had this discussion before, and he's a big time Stones fan.

I didn't read that link, Paisley is your typical Nashville pop star. I'm sure he calls The Stones a huge influence and kisses Mick's ass. And I'm not downing The Stones, I love them. And all country fans I know love them, the rock stuff anyway. But nobody really listens to the country songs. Mick just sounds so not genuine and fake, like he's singing those songs with a sly grin, taking the piss at country as some of our English friends would say.

Thanks for responding as  I am not a big country fan so enjoy reading posts from someone who is to help me understand the culture. Also interesting to me is the divide between the hardcore old time Hank Williams country fan and the Nashville pop nucountry fans.....Seems to me a lot of the stuff being posted here is more related to nuCountry than the classic country?

Again from what I have read Gram Parsons is being credited with creating a more accessible style of  country  music which brought it to a more rock oriented audience so was curious how classic country fans viewed this opinion and his music which I rather like.

I also don't disagree Mick is taking a piss in some of the Stones country songs but personally I focus more on the playing, which I think is excellent, as from what I read Keef really liked traditional country and Gram was a big influence on their early attempts.

I am not trying to defend the Stones country songs, which I happen to like, It is interesting to me to get a country fans perspective on rock bands attempting country...

So in your opinion are there any rock bands who have done decent country songs?

[EvanG]

Maybe not real country, but one of my favourites...

 

[J Dog]

4 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Theres a school of thought that says the only way Mick could justify his occupation to his high society friends after a certain point was that it was all parody.  I think its a little hard to listen to Far Away Eyes and say it isn't taking the piss out of country.  I mean come on, that whole bit about gospel radio stations and the church of the bleeding heart of etc etc, how is that not taking the piss?  And there was a fair bit of that too, what is Rocky Raccoon if not a pisstake of a certain kind of earthy American music? 

I can get behind that about making it parody for his high society mates, but still, have some balls, make a real country song man! Maybe he didn't want to make a sincere attempt and wanted to be all stank about it idk.

I can even get behind a joke or some good hearted humor, but there's a difference between that and well, being a dick. Always felt Mick was just being a dick.

Even Rocky Raccoon, sure there's some parody there, but it never came across to me as, mocking/singing this all stuck up while looking down my nose at you. Idk, there's just a difference to me. My goodness, one of my favorite country songs, and an all time classic, is David Allan Coe's You Never Called Me By My Name, that last verse is a huge dig at country, a genre that Coe was all about, I mean he helped define outlaw country, hell this thread is named after one of his songs  but that verse in Never Called Me isn't all mean and goody goody, it's just funny.

[J Dog]

2 hours ago, classicrawker said:

Thanks for responding as  I am not a big country fan so enjoy reading posts from someone who is to help me understand the culture. Also interesting to me is the divide between the hardcore old time Hank Williams country fan and the Nashville pop nucountry fans.....Seems to me a lot of the stuff being posted here is more related to nuCountry than the classic country?

Idk homie, you must not have looked through this thread too good  It's mostly filled with classics from Hank Sr to Cash to Willie Nelson to Waylon Jennings to Patsy Cline. I guess the last couple of pages have been more newer country, but this thread is probably 75% classic stuff I'd say. And like I mentioned, most of the newer stuff we post is pretty good. There's been a good throwback to a classic country influence the past few years. There's a lot more out there than just shiny Nashville pop country.

2 hours ago, classicrawker said:

Again from what I have read Gram Parsons is being credited with creating a more accessible style of  country  music which brought it to a more rock oriented audience so was curious how classic country fans viewed this opinion and his music which I rather like.

Most country fans I know like Gram. I just don't know many people that rank him up there with Hank Sr or George Jones or Willie Nelson etc. He's good but he ain't that good 

2 hours ago, classicrawker said:

I also don't disagree Mick is taking a piss in some of the Stones country songs but personally I focus more on the playing, which I think is excellent, as from what I read Keef really liked traditional country and Gram was a big influence on their early attempts.

I am not trying to defend the Stones country songs, which I happen to like, It is interesting to me to get a country fans perspective on rock bands attempting country...

Yea like I said, I enjoy the actual music in those songs. I just can't look past Mick's vocals the way you can. Can't do it. Not to get all political and touchy, but most country fans are from the same part of the country as myself. And tbh, we're one of the few demographics in America where today's society throws political correctness out the window and it's still cool to judge us, call us names, make fun of us, put us down, insult us, lump everyone together and view us the same. Make a derogatory mean statement about people from where I'm from, and you get a bunch of likes and thumbs up. So when someone like Mick imo kind of does that, I can't mess with it.

2 hours ago, classicrawker said:

So in your opinion are there any rock bands who have done decent country songs?

Sure there are. I like Dylan's country stuff. Neil Young has some good country-ish stuff, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Tom Petty. Now as far as someone that totally isn't associated with country or or southern rock or rootsy type music, like that Soul Asylum song up there, which I like, yeah there's some here and there. I'll have to think about it.

[J Dog]

5 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Theres a school of thought that says the only way Mick could justify his occupation to his high society friends after a certain point was that it was all parody.  I think its a little hard to listen to Far Away Eyes and say it isn't taking the piss out of country.  I mean come on, that whole bit about gospel radio stations and the church of the bleeding heart of etc etc, how is that not taking the piss?  And there was a fair bit of that too, what is Rocky Raccoon if not a pisstake of a certain kind of earthy American music? 

The last verse, this is how you make fun of country music with being a dick 

 

[Len Cnut]

Country music I think is the biggest window to like...the fuckin' snobbiness of American culture towards its own working class.  A certain section of em anyway.  Cuz like, out and out country has never been cool from what I can gather.  Yet its always always always had its audience...and it has to be a pretty fuckin' massive one or else it wouldn't last as long as it has, through all kinds of times.  Yet its never REALLY gotten respect unless some jumped up fuckin' prick journalist is reviewing 'country influences' in some big mainstream rock band to show how 'eclectic' they are.  It truly is a peoples music.  Blues has been cool, rock n roll has been cool, hip hop has been cool, jazz has been cool but there's never really been a time where out and out country has been cool and there's one reason for that and one reason only, cuz they think its made by a bunch of no account redneck yokels.  Its a level of prejudice thats actually quite astounding if you think about it cuz I mean, even the fuckin' blues, black music though it was, in the 40s even got its acclaim, even if it was among like a hip kinda crowd, even if they were kinda extremely limited in where they could perform, country has never really gotten that, not ever.  And its like a pure American art form.  And if you're looking for stories of bad motherfuckers you won't find many badder than some of the guys who made country music.

Now I ain't Mr Country, this is just my assessment.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Len Cnut

[EvanG]

The 90s had a lot of those so called ''alt-country'' bands like Golden Smog and Wilco... I don't know if they were more folk rock than country or even what the difference is, but those bands are always worth checking out if you're into that kind of music.

 

 

[classicrawker]

I have the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band "Will the Circle Be Unbroken"  Volume 1 album on original vinyl and really get into the music on it.

Also have a 5CD set which adds volume 2 & 3 with John Denver and Johnny Cash contributing which while not a good as the orginal IMHO still has some good music on it

Sorry if this has been discussed, as I have not read all 110 pages of this thread, but  how does bluegrass fit into the country genre?  While I like the old country music masters, like H. Williams, I really enjoy bluegrass and have attended some festivals when I was younger.

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by classicrawker

[J Dog]

Nothing like some good bluegrass. Nitty Gritty was one of the best. I don't know exactly where it fits, I just know county fans dig it. First cousins maybe?

Not 100% bluegrass, but you can hear the influence for sure. He even does that kind of distant back up vocal thing, which I love in bluegrass.

 

 

[J Dog]

9 hours ago, classicrawker said:

Thanks for responding as  I am not a big country fan so enjoy reading posts from someone who is to help me understand the culture. Also interesting to me is the divide between the hardcore old time Hank Williams country fan and the Nashville pop nucountry fans

Think about it in rock n roll terms. Most of us on here are fans of The Stones, GNR, Hendrix right? Not many of us on here are into say, Nickelback or Fall Out Boy, know what I mean? Most of us agree rock has lost it. That's how classic country fans feel. There's a huge difference between Merle Haggard or George Jones, and say, Tim McGraw or Blake Shelton. Most modern country is over produced, follow the leader, polished pop stuff. Now like I mentioned, in recent years there has been a pretty good underground country scene which is heavily influenced by the old classic stuff.

Surely you can tell the difference between these two and guess which one of these is popular in this thread....

 

 

[J Dog]

6 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Country music I think is the biggest window to like...the fuckin' snobbiness of American culture towards its own working class.  A certain section of em anyway.  Cuz like, out and out country has never been cool from what I can gather.  Yet its always always always had its audience...and it has to be a pretty fuckin' massive one or else it wouldn't last as long as it has, through all kinds of times.  Yet its never REALLY gotten respect unless some jumped up fuckin' prick journalist is reviewing 'country influences' in some big mainstream rock band to show how 'eclectic' they are.  It truly is a peoples music.  Blues has been cool, rock n roll has been cool, hip hop has been cool, jazz has been cool but there's never really been a time where out and out country has been cool and there's one reason for that and one reason only, cuz they think its made by a bunch of no account redneck yokels.  Its a level of prejudice thats actually quite astounding if you think about it cuz I mean, even the fuckin' blues, black music though it was, in the 40s even got its acclaim, even if it was among like a hip kinda crowd, even if they were kinda extremely limited in where they could perform, country has never really gotten that, not ever.  And its like a pure American art form.  And if you're looking for stories of bad motherfuckers you won't find many badder than some of the guys who made country music.

I would agree with this.

6 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Now I ain't Mr Country,

I would also agree with this  Just messing with you homie. Actually you're the perfect example. You aren't geographically connected to country at all, but you know good country, you like most of the same country stuff that I do and have no problem hearing something and saying that's pretty good music. Look up a couple of posts, I bet money you will like those Hank III songs I posted.

[J Dog]

4 hours ago, EvanG said:

The 90s had a lot of those so called ''alt-country'' bands like Golden Smog and Wilco... I don't know if they were more folk rock than country or even what the difference is, but those bands are always worth checking out if you're into that kind of music.

 

 

Now see those kinda miss the mark for me. Not saying they aren't good songs, but like I can tell those are rock guys just playing country. I know Wilco, they're a good band and the real deal, but there's something missing with their country stuff. They get points for the steel guitar though. The best way I can explain it is like, you know how most Guns fans agree Sorum is technically a good drummer but he's not Steven Adler? Or we can agree Adler may not be the most technical drummer but he's great. Or we point out certain guitarist and say, yeah he can play all the chords and play this song good, but he doesn't have that feel? It's kinda like that. It's just missing something. Even if it really is a good song.

I probably come across as some snobby know it all on this page, but I'm not. Just talking and expressing my viewpoint. I'm a jackass at heart that knows nothing trust me 

Edited March 14, 2018 by J Dog

[Fitha_whiskey]

Here’s some fuckin crazy bluegrass (I guess?) I stumbled across the other night when I was hammered. Nothing like a good old YouTube rabbit hole when youre hammered! 

 

[Fitha_whiskey]

 

[EvanG]

9 hours ago, J Dog said:

Now see those kinda miss the mark for me. Not saying they aren't good songs, but like I can tell those are rock guys just playing country. I know Wilco, they're a good band and the real deal, but there's something missing with their country stuff. They get points for the steel guitar though. The best way I can explain it is like, you know how most Guns fans agree Sorum is technically a good drummer but he's not Steven Adler? Or we can agree Adler may not be the most technical drummer but he's great. Or we point out certain guitarist and say, yeah he can play all the chords and play this song good, but he doesn't have that feel? It's kinda like that. It's just missing something. Even if it really is a good song.

I probably come across as some snobby know it all on this page, but I'm not. Just talking and expressing my viewpoint. I'm a jackass at heart that knows nothing trust me 

I get what you're saying, those bands I mentioned probably aren't trying to be country... it's just one of their influences. That's why I love Wilco so much... there's some folk stuff, bluesy, jazzy, alternative rock and pop elements in their music.

Edited March 14, 2018 by EvanG

[EvanG]

 

[Fitha_whiskey]

 

Edit: drunk as hell when I posted this! 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Fitha_whiskey

[Fitha_whiskey]

 

[J Dog]

Some acoustics on this nice Saturday night. Good fire barrel jams...

 

 

 

[J Dog]

Keepin it acoustic....

 

 

[J Dog]

 

 

[J Dog]

^^^^Good steel

 

[EvanG]

I don't know if this qualifies enough as country, but my country is sending this guy to the Eurovision song contest this year. I know that contest is a joke, but at least we're sending a quality artist.

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by EvanG

[J Dog]

4 hours ago, EvanG said:

I don't know if this qualifies enough as country, but my country is sending this guy to the Eurovision song contest this year. I know that contest is a joke, but at least we're sending a quality artist.

 

I have no idea what Eurovision is  Dutch country huh, that line about, you're only callin cause the whiskey is workin tonight, is a good country line.

I don't love it but it's pretty cool someone in The Netherlands can find inspiration from Waylon Jennings. So that's pretty neat.

 

 

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, J Dog said:

I have no idea what Eurovision is  Dutch country huh, that line about, you're only callin cause the whiskey is workin tonight, is a good country line.

I don't love it but it's pretty cool someone in The Netherlands can find inspiration from Waylon Jennings. So that's pretty neat.

 

It's this cheesy song contest once a year, that's been going on since 1956, where artists from most European countries perform a song. Nowadays it's an embarrassing circus with really bad commercial pop songs and terrible acts most of the time, but sometimes a country sends in a good act. This Waylon guy already performed at the Eurovision song contest with Ilse DeLange a few years ago, our national country star, and to everyone's surprise they came in second with this song:

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by EvanG