Wacky World of The Ominous Ninja Izzy Stradlin and NO! Gang

[Claudia333]

4 minutes ago, Zoot said:

Supposedly she hooked up with Matt Sorum, Steven and Slash after that tour. I'm pretty sure the only GNR guy she hasn't been with is Axl & Izzy.

Who is Roxana?

[Tori72]

Just now, cindy1985 said:

Who's that girl i can't remember her..

Says she is a groupie because she's a liberated woman and a feminist. lol. The WT analysed in great details that she still is in service of patriarchy. lol And of course she is. But hell, she also wrote a book and supposedly ruined Sebastian Bach's marriage with it and also something with Slash's wife/girlfriend. In her book she describey Izzy meeting two (teenage!) groupies backstage in 2006 and shy-ishly flirting with them. So well....

[Zoot]

Just now, Tori72 said:

Says she is a groupie because she's a liberated woman and a feminist. lol. The WT analysed in great details that she still is in service of patriarchy. lol And of course she is. But hell, she also wrote a book and supposedly ruined Sebastian Bach's marriage with it and also something with Slash's wife/girlfriend. In her book she describey Izzy meeting two (teenage!) groupies backstage in 2006 and shy-ishly flirting with them. So well....

And she was also pregnant with Dizzy Reed's baby at one point.

[kkferro72]

Just now, Zoot said:

And she was also pregnant with Dizzy Reed's baby at one point.

[Tori72]

Just now, Zoot said:

And she was also pregnant with Dizzy Reed's baby at one point.

Oh jeez. So she had a miscarriage or an abortion? Why puke?

[kkferro72]

1 minute ago, Tori72 said:

Oh jeez. So she had a miscarriage or an abortion? Why puke?

Do you really don't understand why??? 

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by kkferro72

[Zoot]

4 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Why puke?

Because it's Dizzy.

Quote

So she had a miscarriage or an abortion?

she had an abortion.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Zoot

[cindy1985]

thank you girls...i never heard this groupie and you give me so many details..and she will speak about her relationship with the boys?

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Wasn't Roxana trying to make it sound like she had an affair with Slash not so long ago. She has the emails to prove it 

[Stizzyfan01]

Wasn’t there a picture of Izzy hanging out after the concert with Axl and a group of groupies??

happy Birthday Popcorn!!!

 

[kkferro72]

13 minutes ago, Stizzyfan01 said:

Wasn’t there a picture of Izzy hanging out after the concert with Axl and a group of groupies??

happy Birthday Popcorn!!!

 

Yes and no. There is a picture of Izzy, Axl and some other member of the band(?) and a group of women that I believe were each one's companions. I think that because the only girl really visible is Sasha. Please someone correct me if is not her...

Edited January 22, 2018 by kkferro72

[Zoot]

22 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Wasn't Roxana trying to make it sound like she had an affair with Slash not so long ago. She has the emails to prove it 

Yep.

[Izzyryu]

12 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Says she is a groupie because she's a liberated woman and a feminist.

I think that's what infuriates me the most about her. Fucking a whole bunch of famous dudes isn't striking a blow against the patriarchy, it's just...y'know...fucking a whole bunch of famous dudes. And there's nothing wrong with that!

All this "feminism" nonsense, as far as I can tell, is just a desperate attempt to convince people she's a special snowflake since those other stupid groupies don't have sex as an empowering feminist act. Strip all the pseudo-intellectual bullshit out, and what's left is, ironically, incredibly misogynist. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Izzyryu

[SerenityScorp]

Happy Birthday,  POPCORN!!!!! 

[Tori72]

1 hour ago, Izzyryu said:

I think that's what infuriates me the most about her. Fucking a whole bunch of famous dudes isn't striking a blow against the patriarchy, it's just...y'know...fucking a whole bunch of famous dudes. And there's nothing wrong with that!

All this "feminism" nonsense, as far as I can tell, is just a desperate attempt to convince people she's a special snowflake since those other stupid groupies don't have sex as an empowering feminist act. Strip all the pseudo-intellectual bullshit out, and what's left is, ironically, incredibly misogynist. 

Hear ya sista! Well said.

Also, I have a question for you all. Izzy's songs like Patience or Dust n Bones are not solely Izzy's work, are they? Slash and / or Axl did something to them as well, right? Like adding guitar things, vocal lines, lyrics? Is that correct? Or is there an Izzy song during GnR that is totally Izzy?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Tori72

[cindy1985]

30 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Hear ya sista! Well said.

Also, I have a question for you all. Izzy's songs like Patience or Dust n Bones are not solely Izzy's work, are they? Slash and / or Axl did something to them as well, right? Like adding guitar things, vocal lines, lyrics? Is that correct? Or is there an Izzy song during GnR that is totally Izzy?

Ι know that patience think about you and double talkin jive are him..its a bit confusing about songs because slash in his book claims that in estranged added the guitar parts. Also we know that in appetite izzy axl slash and duff wrote the songs but steven won the court about rights and paid him 2million. Probably in these cases the important is who has the main idea.. 

[Blackstar]

4 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Also, I have a question for you all. Izzy's songs like Patience or Dust n Bones are not solely Izzy's work, are they? Slash and / or Axl did something to them as well, right? Like adding guitar things, vocal lines, lyrics? Is that correct? Or is there an Izzy song during GnR that is totally Izzy?

4 hours ago, cindy1985 said:

Ι know that patience think about you and double talkin jive are him..its a bit confusing about songs because slash in his book claims that in estranged added the guitar parts. Also we know that in appetite izzy axl slash and duff wrote the songs but steven won the court about rights and paid him 2million. Probably in these cases the important is who has the main idea.. 

Based on the credits (on the AFD and Lies liner notes all songs are credited to the band, but there are registered songwriting credits, although I think all five members still get almost equal publishing, Axl 25%, Steven 15% and the rest 20% ), the songs that are solely Izzy's are Used To Love Her, You Ain't The First, Double Talkin' Jive and Pretty Tied Up. Think About You is Izzy and Slash, Patience is Izzy and Axl, Dust N' Bones is Izzy, Slash and Duff.

Credits aside, in the case of a band it's generally hard to say who contributed what and how much. Patience and Think About You, for example, are, by all accounts, mostly Izzy's work, but Axl and Slash probably added something that is considered a contribution on songwriting. What is typically considered songwriting in rock is melody (instruments and vocal melodies), chord structure, lyrics and riffs. Instrumental parts (guitar, bass, drums etc.) that are written on an already structured song, arrangement/production and solos don't count as songwriting. It's more complicated though, because there are cases of songs where the bass line or the drums etc. are very crucial in making the song what it is.

Some bands deal with the complication by splitting the publishing loot equally () - also as a way to keep the band tight-, like GnR had done with AFD and Lies.

A couple of interesting articles on the subject:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2008/jun/24/calculatingthecreditsbehind

http://lawyerdrummer.com/2017/03/what-constitutes-songwriting/

The reason they lost the court with Steven and had to pay him -to be accurate, they didn't lose as in a ruling by a judge/jury, it was an out of court settlement- was that he wasn't represented by his own lawyer when he signed the contract which demoted him.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Blackstar
accidentally deleted part

[Tori72]

Thank you @Blackstar! As usual you're incredible. 

The thing I was asking is, I was comparing Izzy's early (GnR) songwriting to his later days (Ju Jus but mostly after). I was wondering what happend because I think his style and songwriting changed a great deal.

I love his music, obviously. I appreciate his own style. I love his melodies and riffs and rhythm. His songs have hidden treasures that I only notice after listening a few times. I love that. But still I'm wondering what changed his style. It's obvious it changed a great deal after GnR. It's not better or worse, it is different. So what changed it? 

Was it the other's (Axl, Slash) influence that made him more hardrock and more mainstreamable? He still has hardrock and punk influences in some songs of course, but they are under some "layers" (layers is not the right word for Izzys music but i don't know how to put it) of bluesy, stones-y old school rock'n roll. Apparently this it what he really likes and what he feels like writing. Also I'm wondering whether Izzy would like to have (had) a greater impact on rock since he left GnR or not. It seems with Ju Jus he could have. I understand he likes a stress-free lifestyle and hates doing interviews and stuff to help selling the product. So not doing that also kinda makes sure his impact doesn't get noticed. But musically speaking, would he like to have a greater impact. We can only guess.

[cindy1985]

25 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Based on the credits (on the AFD and Lies liner notes all songs are credited to the band, but there are registered songwriting credits, although I think all five members still get almost equal publishing, Axl 25%, Steven 15% and the rest 20% ), the songs that are solely Izzy's are Used To Love Her, You Ain't The First, Double Talkin' Jive and Pretty Tied Up. Think About You is Izzy and Slash, Patience is Izzy and Axl, Dust N' Bones is Izzy, Slash and Duff.

Credits aside, in the case of a band it's generally hard to say who contributed what and how much. Patience and Think About You, for example, are, by all accounts, mostly Izzy's work, but Axl and Slash probably added something that is considered a contribution on songwriting. What is typically considered songwriting in rock is melody (instruments and vocal melodies), chord structure, lyrics and riffs. Instrumental parts (guitar, bass, drums etc.) that are written on an already structured song, and arrangement/production don't count as songwriting. It's more complicated though, because there are cases of songs where the bass line or the drums etc. are very crucial in making the song what it is.

Some bands deal with the complication by splitting the publishing loot equally () - also as a way to keep the band tight-, like GnR had done with AFD and Lies.

A couple of interesting articles on the subject:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2008/jun/24/calculatingthecreditsbehind

http://lawyerdrummer.com/2017/03/what-constitutes-songwriting/

The reason they lost the court with Steven and had to pay him -to be accurate, they didn't lose as in a ruling by a judge/jury, it was an out of court settlement- was that he wasn't represented by his own lawyer when he signed the contract which demoted him.

Slash in his book said that axl didn't want to pay him because he had no participation in songs. But thank you

[Lio]

4 minutes ago, cindy1985 said:

Slash in his book said that axl didn't want to pay him because he had no participation in songs. But thank you

Are you talking about Estranged? I think I read on here before that Slash wouldn't have any credits for that because of the explanation Blackstar gave, and that's why Axl thanked him 'for the killer guitar melodies' in the liner notes.

EDIT: Sorry, I think you're talking about Steven? Disregard then

Edited January 23, 2018 by Lio

[cindy1985]

4 minutes ago, Lio said:

Are you talking about Estranged? I think I read on here before that Slash wouldn't have any credits for that because of the explanation Blackstar gave, and that's why Axl thanked him 'for the killer guitar melodies' in the liner notes.

EDIT: Sorry, I think you're talking about Steven? Disregard then

Oh sorry... I was talking about steven.. axl didn't want to pay steven because he had no participation in songs.. Generally its a confusinh thing who write what..

[Boogs]

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

His songs have hidden treasures that I only notice after listening a few times. I love that. But still I'm wondering what changed his style. It's obvious it changed a great deal after GnR. It's not better or worse, it is different. So what changed it? 

I was thinking about this the other day myself. I wonder if his style changed because he started listening to different kinds of music, and his influences changed? Less Alice Cooper and Johnny Thunders, more Bo Diddley and Bob Marley?

Also, I do agree with you that he could be feeling some measure of disappointment that his music alone was not enough to rock the rocknroll world after leaving GN’R. Judging from some things he said e.g. “if this iTunes thing takes off...”, which it doesn’t seem like it did, Izzy could possibly be feeling like his fans failed him because not quite enough of us bought his albums (I get the impression most ‘fans’ stopped buying after Ju Jus) or came to his solo shows  

[Zoot]

7 minutes ago, Boogs said:

Also, I do agree with you that he could be feeling some measure of disappointment that his music alone was not enough to rock the rocknroll world after leaving GN’R. Judging from some things he said e.g. “if this iTunes thing takes off...”, which it doesn’t seem like it did, Izzy could possibly be feeling like his fans failed him because not quite enough of us bought his albums (I get the impression most ‘fans’ stopped buying after Ju Jus) or came to his solo shows  

He can't really blame the fans when he doesn't do any promotion or tour. Most casual fans tend to have a 'Out of sight, Out of mind' mentality. If a band isn't touring or keeping their attention with interviews or some sort of promotion, they forget about them. His diehard fans have always stuck by him though.

---

I'm sure the music style change came down to two things; his influences changed (more reggae, less hard rock) and he became sober so his lifestyle changed. A vegan farmer isn't going to write the same style of music as a heroin addict living off the sunset strip, ya know?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Zoot

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Thank you @Blackstar! As usual you're incredible. 

The thing I was asking is, I was comparing Izzy's early (GnR) songwriting to his later days (Ju Jus but mostly after). I was wondering what happend because I think his style and songwriting changed a great deal.

I love his music, obviously. I appreciate his own style. I love his melodies and riffs and rhythm. His songs have hidden treasures that I only notice after listening a few times. I love that. But still I'm wondering what changed his style. It's obvious it changed a great deal after GnR. It's not better or worse, it is different. So what changed it? 

Was it the other's (Axl, Slash) influence that made him more hardrock and more mainstreamable? He still has hardrock and punk influences in some songs of course, but they are under some "layers" (layers is not the right word for Izzys music but i don't know how to put it) of bluesy, stones-y old school rock'n roll. Apparently this it what he really likes and what he feels like writing.

I think that part of it was due to the influence of Axl/Slash and the dynamics of the band in general, but mostly, considering that AFD and a part of Illusions was early written material, it was just that he changed/evolved as a musician/songwriter with time. His gradual evolution can be traced even during his time in GnR. For example, some of his later GnR songs (i.e. the ones he wrote/co-wrote during the UYI sessions), like PrettyTied Up, You Ain't The First, Dust N' Bones, have a different vibe than the early ones; It was also reflected in his performance and style/image: in the pre-GnR and early GnR days he had a Johnny Thunders/Hanoi Rocks style, and he seemingly was the one who cared the most about the band's image, being the band's stylist etc; he also was more expressive on stage. Later he adopted a cooler, Keith Richards like style.

Axl alluded to Izzy's musical change (in a 2009 interview, iirc), saying that Izzy wouldn't be interested in doing something like AFD again. The context was that he (Axl) wasn't the only or the main one who went to a different direction after AFD. I think there's truth to that statement. Even Slash with Snakepit went to a more roots and basic hard/blues rock direction than AFD. Axl's change is more noticeable because it surpassed the limits of classic rock/hard rock.

Each of them had various influences (with Axl being the more diverse one). As they started writing separately after AFD and then with time, they leaned more towards influences they felt closer to and could relate to more as they grew up; Izzy liked The Stones, Aerosmith, The Dolls, The Ramones etc. and he gradually went towards his Stones influence; Axl liked 70s hard rock (AC/DC, Nazareth), Queen and Elton John, modern/alternative stuff etc. and he went towards the latter two.

3 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Also I'm wondering whether Izzy would like to have (had) a greater impact on rock since he left GnR or not. It seems with Ju Jus he could have. I understand he likes a stress-free lifestyle and hates doing interviews and stuff to help selling the product. So not doing that also kinda makes sure his impact doesn't get noticed. But musically speaking, would he like to have a greater impact. We can only guess.

My guess is that he wanted it in the Ju Jus era, judging from the fact that he had toured and given interviews at that time.

3 hours ago, cindy1985 said:

Slash in his book said that axl didn't want to pay him because he had no participation in songs. But thank you

Slash said that Axl didn't think Steven should get as much publishing royalties as the rest of the band since he hadn't contributed in the songwriting, so they ended up with the 25%-20%-15% arrangement. Axl testified in court that when they calculated each one's songwriting contributions (and the corresponding publishing royalties they were entitled to) based on a formula Slash had come up with, it was 40% Axl - 60% Izzy/Slash/Duff, and that he agreed to give Steven part of his 40% (so he got 25% and Steven 15%) as an act of solidarity.

The main claim in Steven's lawsuit wasn't about the publishing rights, but that he was made to sign a contract with which he was demoted to an employee and resigned from his rights as a leaving partner.  There are revenues from being a partner which are independent from what one gets from their contributions in the songs. Steven claimed that he didn't have a clear mind when he signed that contract so it wasn't valid. Since he wasn't represented by a lawyer when he signed it, the court would probably rule in favour of him (as there was a conflict of interests so he couldn't be represented by the band's lawyer), hence the out of court settlement.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Blackstar

[cindy1985]

2 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I think that part of it was due to the influence of Axl/Slash and the dynamics of the band in general, but mostly, considering that AFD and a part of Illusions was early written material, it was just that he changed/evolved as a musician/songwriter with time. His gradual evolution can be traced even during his time in GnR. For example, some of his later GnR songs (i.e. the ones he wrote/co-wrote during the UYI sessions), like PrettyTied Up, You Ain't The First, Dust N' Bones, have a different vibe than the early ones; It was also reflected in his performance and style/image: in the pre-GnR and early GnR days he had a Johnny Thunders/Hanoi Rocks style, and he seemingly was the one who cared the most about the band's image, being the band's stylist etc; he also was more expressive on stage. Later he adopted a cooler, Keith Richards like style.

Axl alluded to Izzy's musical change (in a 2009 interview, iirc), saying that Izzy wouldn't be interested in doing something like AFD again. The context was that he (Axl) wasn't the only or the main one who went to a different direction after AFD. I think there's truth to that statement. Even Slash with Snakepit went to a more roots and basic hard/blues rock direction that AFD. Axl's change is more noticeable because it surpassed the limits of classic rock/hard rock.

Each of them had various influences (with Axl being the more diverse one). As they started writing separately after AFD and then with time, they leaned more towards influences they felt closer to and could relate to more as they grew up; Izzy liked The Stones, Aerosmith, The Dolls, The Ramones etc. and he gradually went towards his Stones influence; Axl liked 70s hard rock (AC/DC, Nazareth), Queen and Elton John, modern/alternative stuff etc. and he went towards the latter two.

My guess is that he wanted that in the Ju Jus era, judging from the fact that he had toured and given interviews at that time.

Slash said that Axl didn't think Steven should get as much publishing royalties as the rest of the band since he hadn't contributed in the songwriting, so they ended up with the 25%-20%-15% arrangement. Axl testified in court that when they calculated each one's songwriting contributions (and the corresponding publishing royalties they were entitled to) based on a formula Slash had come up with, it was 40% Axl - 60% Izzy/Slash/Duff, and that he agreed to give Steven part of his 40% (so he got 25% and Steven 15%) as an act of solidarity.

The main claim in Steven's lawsuit wasn't about the publishing rights, but that he was made to sign a contract with which he resigned from his rights as a partner and was demoted to an employee.  There are revenues from being a partner which are independent from what one gets from their contributions in the songs. Steven claimed that he didn't have a clear mind when he signed that contract so it wasn't valid. Since he wasn't represented by a lawyer when he signed it, the court would probably rule in favour of him (as there was a conflict of interests so he couldn't be represented by the band's lawyer), hence the out of court settlement.

thank you @Blackstar i didn't remember the whole story.