Chinese Democracy

[Gackt]

ChiDem's problem was "too little, too late"

Also looked awful that it was Dr. Pepper that gave Axl the push needed to release a finished album publicly after so many leaks

[default_]

Chinese is a good record and i've always liked most of the songs on it. I just dont see it as a GNR record, I just cant, even if AFD 5 were playing that live I wouldnt. 

But as a solo Axl Rose album? I fuckin love it. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by default_

[Rovim]

51 minutes ago, Gackt said:

ChiDem's problem was "too little, too late"

Also looked awful that it was Dr. Pepper that gave Axl the push needed to release a finished album publicly after so many leaks

No problem if you judge what is there instead of what isn't and what you were "supposed to get". Sometimes art is "late". And yes, I really believe this shit.

We were used to an album from Gn'R every 3 years tops. Axl took control and replaced everyone that quit or got fired. He wanted to delay Illusions some more but the rest of the old line up were there to convince him to release it. When they were gone, he was in complete control and his approach was very different compared to how old Guns did it, even if he said Appetite was worked on and worked on.

He wanted to bury Appetite with Illusions. I only mention it cause it says something about how important it is for Axl to bring something great to the table with each Guns release and make an artistic statement. If you think Axl can just nonchalantly release a new Guns album than I don't know what to tell you. (not you specifically) I speculate he wants to be satisfied with his work after it is released so he takes his time to make sure it's good enough.

He didn't bury Appetite with Illusions (no album could) and with Chinese he still made the album he wanted to create (his words, said the music was 100% what he wanted it to be after it got released) even if it was not well received by many casual and hardcore fans.

We will never know, but I don't think the reason for the lack of acceptance was the material itself or the fact Axl only released 1 album in 25 years. At least it wasn't as big of a reason as the lack of Slash. Slash was just a huge part of the classic Guns sound. Axl replaced him with Bucket and while the material in part wasn't that big of a deviation from what fans were used to from Gn'R for the most part, it was different enough without Slash and these other guitar players that it alienated a lot of fans and Axl chose to sing it in mostly clean vocals. Probably didn't help either, again, less classic sounding.

Let's say for the sake of argument Slash came back just in time to replace all of the guitar tracks on Chinese and Axl rerecorded all the clean vocals and replaced it with full rasp before it got released. At the very least I think more people would have given it a chance. Even if it was still released in 2008. I think more people would have accepted it as a true Guns album, even if it lacked Izzy, Duff, and Steven or Matt.

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Rovim

[Rovim]

8 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

 

It was largely that Axl burned every bridge with fans and the media 2006-2008 and the record came out overdone. Easy target.

The main hits were well liked on initial release when they leaked in 2003, 2006, and 2008. People stopped giving a fuck.

And the whole clean vocal thing is a load of revisionist history bullshit. 

Nope. When Axl was a guest vocalist on Bach's solo album "Angel Down" I vividly remember many old Guns fans were saying why the fuck he didn't sing like that for Chinese and how it was much better compared to his vocals on his own release.

It was clearly a choice like Axl said it was. "The whole vocal thing". Maybe you should listen to Chinese again to refresh your memory, then listen to Illusions again for a point of reference.

Most of the tunes on Chinese are sung in a different style. Catcher and I.R.S for example (which Axl sang raspy live) were sung in a clean voice. It's not bullshit, it's a fact.

[Rovim]

17 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

His vocals were indeed stronger on Angel Down and the later recorded songs. I cannot recall a single review that criticized Axl's vocal style.

Axl could have sang those songs as raspy as he liked, it wouldn't make the songs any better or change the reception of the album.

Hell one public bitch was he sang Madagascar raspy and he flipped a lid over that. 

But I wasn't talking about reviews. Never said it would have made the tunes better either. Axl said fans didn't like his clean vocals on Chinese. That is true, most did not.

My initial point was that if his vocals resembled his signature raspy tone like Illusions and had Slash on it, more people would have given it a chance probably.

Madagascar vocals were always raspy for the studio, at least that radio commercial with the few seconds snippet proved that. Live he sang it clean, then switched to rasp. The Blues was clean in 2001 and 2002 as well.

But we're discussing studio vocals.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

GN'R fans,

Appetite/Illusion era exclusives.

Appetite/Illusion fans who like CD era.

CD fans who like Appetite/Illusion era

CD fans who do not like Appetite/Illusion era (these are in a minority but they do exist)

You have fought this argument five billion times. The Colosseum is yours. Proceed to fight it out again.

[Rovim]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

GN'R fans,

Appetite/Illusion era exclusives.

Appetite/Illusion fans who like CD era.

CD fans who like Appetite/Illusion era

CD fans who do not like Appetite/Illusion era (these are in a minority but they do exist)

You have fought this argument five billion times. The Colosseum is yours. Proceed to fight it out again.

At least it's not cricket.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Rovim said:

At least it's not cricket.

It would have been funnier if you said, ''it is just not cricket.''

You do not like any sports regardless, that is any sports except exerting yourself with your tag team partner Wasted in mental gymnastics about the intricacies of an album which does not exist.

[Rovim]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

It would have been funnier if you said, ''it is just not cricket.''

You do not like any sports regardless, that is any sports except exerting yourself with your tag team partner Wasted in mental gymnastics about the intricacies of an album which does not exist.

But cricket seems to be the most boring. And I was being serious. At least it's not as boring as what seems to be the most boring game in the world. Basketball I can at least understand. Why someone invented that and why people will want to play it or watch that shit.

What is the purpose...nvm. Disregard that.

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Nostalgia is the only thing keeping this band alive.

Some of us prefer the 1997-2002 brand to the 1987-1993 one. 

But Axl has a trilogy of albums. Fortus and Dizzy said that in an interview. Fortus was telling the truth about big things in 2016 in an interview from 2015.

[DR DOOM]

7 minutes ago, Rovim said:

But Axl has a trilogy of albums. Fortus and Dizzy said that in an interview. Fortus was telling the truth about big things in 2016 in an interview from 2015.

You should be paddled for trotting out that rubbish, and you KNOW that it's rubbish.

"Fortus and Dizzy said"...give us a fucking break.

[Rovim]

46 minutes ago, DR DOOM said:

You should be paddled for trotting out that rubbish, and you KNOW that it's rubbish.

"Fortus and Dizzy said"...give us a fucking break.

No, I don't KNOW it's "rubbish". They are band members and Fortus was telling the truth about 2016. Besides, Axl got to have something cause he played some tunes to Slash and Duff.

Wallace mixed 30 tunes. That is a fact. This means that there are at least 16 more unreleased tunes in Axl's hard drive. Believe what you want.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Rovim

[DR DOOM]

Wise man say: Don't argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[Rovim]

6 minutes ago, DR DOOM said:

Wise man say: Don't argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Which is why I do my best to ignore your repetitive mullethead bitchfests. And don't you mean "wise men", Doctor? but I'm the idiot cause I disagree.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Rovim

[AxlRoseCDII]

21 minutes ago, Rovim said:

No, I don't know it's "rubbish". They are band members and Fortus was telling the truth about 2016. Besides, Axl got to have something cause he played some tunes to Slash and Duff.

Wallace mixed 30 tunes. That is a fact. This means that there are at least 16 more unreleased tunes in Axl's hard drive. Believe what you want.

Come on man, no disrespect but even as someone who considers Dizzy and Fortus as legitimate band members there is not going to be a Chinese trilogy- that may have been the plan years ago, but Axl considers himself more of a performer at this point. I will admit ive posted in the past here about hints towards new music and tried to remain optimistic about it'a prospect but my feelings have shifted. Axl is comfortable with never releasing another song again in his life. Again, he's a performer. I love this version of Guns but there will probably not be an official, new Guns n' Roses song in this lifetime.

[Rovim]

8 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

 Axl is comfortable with never releasing another song again in his life. Again, he's a performer. I love this version of Guns but there will probably not be an official, new Guns n' Roses song in this lifetime.

See... I have a problem with that statement. How do you know that? why would Axl fuel expectations with what he said in the China exchange interview? he said the exact opposite of what you're saying. Said the Guns catalog is very small, it seems to bother him. He said he would like to release more Guns music.

You jump to conclusions more than I do. I just think Axl won't release a Guns album that is not good enough or is not relevant to him as an artist anymore. You choose to believe he doesn't release anything cause he's not interested anymore.

[wasted]

You never know. There seems to be intentions from Axl showing Slash his material and Slash working on things with Fortus at soundchecks. But with so much touring who knows if they'll ever get round to it. They don't actually need to. 

[DR DOOM]

In B4 mention of The General, Atlas Shugged and "the trilogy".

Heard Robin plays an auto eclectic jazz rap funk town garden gnome flypaper solo like Ghandi in an F1 race on a hamburger reading a salt clock beehive (in Cock A roach soup)

[Padme]

57 minutes ago, Rovim said:

No, I don't KNOW it's "rubbish". They are band members and Fortus was telling the truth about 2016. Besides, Axl got to have something cause he played some tunes to Slash and Duff.

Wallace mixed 30 tunes. That is a fact. This means that there are at least 16 more unreleased tunes in Axl's hard drive. Believe what you want.

How do you know what Axl has in his hard drive?  Please don't make statements about things you don't have a clue. Believe what you want? You believe in Santa Claus.

I believe it the day I see it in Best Buy shelves

[Rovim]

2 hours ago, Padme said:

How do you know what Axl has in his hard drive?  Please don't make statements about things you don't have a clue. Believe what you want? You believe in Santa Claus.

I believe it the day I see it in Best Buy shelves

So now if it's not released, it doesn't exist? like I said, we do know some unreleased material exists cause Andy Wallace mixed 30 tunes before Chinese got released. You don't mix unfinished tunes.

Also, as I've stated earlier, Axl played unreleased tunes to Slash and Duff and said they liked it. That means the tunes had to exist, unless he deleted all of it right after.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Rovim

[Padme]

5 minutes ago, Rovim said:

So now if it's not released, it doesn't exist? like I've said, we do know some unreleased material exists cause Andy Wallace mixed 30 tunes before Chinese got released. You don't mix unfinished tunes.

Also, as I've stated earlier, Axl played unreleased tunes to Slash and Duff and said they liked it. That means the tunes had to exist, unless he deleted all of it right after.

When it comes to GN'R if it is not released it doesn't exist. And I don't care about any possible leaks either. And I agree that we have deal with the possibility of deleted files. The fact is we don't know what happened with The Vault. And nobody is a position to claim they know about Axl's hard drive or mixed songs.

[DR DOOM]

Look Rovin, what you don't seem to get is that going on about all these UNHEARD things like Chinese Democracy II and III and all the related jive just make you (or anybody else) look/sound like an absolute moron.

Or are you intentionally going for the absolute moron angle, maybe because you smoked two marijuanas and are now really high on the pot?

At this point, people are right to mock fanciful claims of Chinese Democracy II.

The album came out like 8 years ago, the music contained within is like 15 or 16 years old.

 

 

 

[Rovim]

9 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

The problem is Axl/GNR has a notorious habit for not releasing music and missing deadlines.

It doesn't matter if songs we're actually finished 10 years ago or 2 years ago. If anything the Chinese Democracy saga proved, it's that finished and mixed are relative terms.

I don't believe there's a legitimate source that Andy Wallace mixed 30 songs. Considering they didn't like his mixes, I'd say it's unlikely. 

Of course they exist but once again, until it's on iTunes, it's like talking about the sperm and egg as if it were an actual child. 

The source is legitimate. Wallace definitely mixed 30 tunes. Even if god existed and was the source, it would probably won't be good enough for some fans.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Rovim

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I have no doubt that many more songs exist but I have not seen a qualified source that mentioned Wallace mixing 30 songs, or any specific number of songs. 

I believe he left the project in 2006 when Axl publicly mentioned 26 songs being finished and 6 other songs being in varying levels of completion so it's plausible but like I said, I have not seen the source on that particular claim. 

Too lazy now, but maybe later I'll find it. But you're saying you have no doubt many more songs exist. I think there are enough Chinese era tunes for a full album, but you know... Slash and Duff reuniting with Axl changed shit.

CD ll material on it's own doesn't make sense anymore to release without Slash and Duff on it. It will be retarded for Axl not to add Slash and Duff and given the fact he said he wants to write new material with vocal melodies and lyrics in mind first, and soon is not the word, I'd say if it's ever released it will take at least a few more years to be released.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Rovim

[KiraMPD]

Ya know, with all this talk about what is or isn't on Axl's hard drive... there is a way to answer that for sure. Surprised that no one has attempted it yet...?