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Guns n' Roses "small catalogue" is a myth


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15 hours ago, wasted said:

Zepp, Doors, Sex Pistols, Faith No More, Nirvana aren't great?

 

Nobody ever said that did they? Except for faith no more. They are extremely popular on GnR sites for some reason. But they are more of a personal taste thing. 

Why didn't the other bands release more albums? 

Nirvanna - lead singer shot himself. 

Doors - lead singer died earlier in their career. 

Zepp - drummer died. 

Notice a trend there? Bands stopping relaxing music because key members died. Did somebody die in GnR?

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4 minutes ago, Apollo said:

Nobody ever said that did they? Except for faith no more. They are extremely popular on GnR sites for some reason. But they are more of a personal taste thing. 

Why didn't the other bands release more albums? 

Nirvanna - lead singer shot himself. 

Doors - lead singer died earlier in their career. 

Zepp - drummer died. 

Notice a trend there? Bands stopping relaxing music because key members died. Did somebody die in GnR?

Ole Beich did.

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Faith No More released 6 studio albums during their active period 1985-1999. They disbanded, got back together in 2009 and have released 1 studio album since then. 

Mike Patton has released over 20 studio albums in various bands and collaborations during the FNM period until now, plus dozens and dozens of other appearances and projects

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21 minutes ago, Apollo said:

Nobody ever said that did they? Except for faith no more. They are extremely popular on GnR sites for some reason. But they are more of a personal taste thing. 

Why didn't the other bands release more albums? 

Nirvanna - lead singer shot himself. 

Doors - lead singer died earlier in their career. 

Zepp - drummer died. 

Notice a trend there? Bands stopping relaxing music because key members died. Did somebody die in GnR?

Major songwriters have left the band. Izzy and Slash (riff writer mostly and his sound was a huge part of Gn'R)

Axl had to rebuild Guns with new players. And when I said Gn'R wasn't active what I meant was that when it imploded, Axl's ass got sued left and right, and when he finished the album in 1999 (took him only 2 years and he wanted to mix) label didn't think it was good enough. RTB made him record shit twice. Tommy has talked about this.

So you see... it wasn't like every other band. It was Gn'R and Axl had a lot to live up to.

Edited by Rovim
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15 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

You could equally apply that logic to Chinese Democracy. Many would say, ''post Slash. You must be joking. Fuck that shit...''.

Anyhow, this conversation is madness. Wasted there is pulling fictional GN'R discographies (''8 records'') out of his bumhole. You Rov are using bands who were only together for five years because their leading man died to justify GN'R's minuscule discography. Madness. 

That's basically what I was about to post. Thank you. 

Let's compare GnR's discography to bands that didn't have main members die.

Stones. Aerosmith. Bon Jovi. Acdc. Metallica. How does Axl's catalog compare to those bands? 

You want to throw in Faith No More? Lol - seriously? Ok, I will add LA Guns then. 

******

And then Wasted later said he respected Axl for NOT releasing albums. I guess we are lost opposites in that regard. I personally LOVE it when my favorite bands share music with their fans. 

I've never once in my entire life looked back at a band I loved and said "boy, I sure wish they would have stopped releasing music. The Rolling Stones are great but I sure wish they would have only released five albums. Damn them for  those other 40 albums."

11 minutes ago, John Daker said:

Faith No More released 6 studio albums during their active period 1985-1999. They disbanded, got back together in 2009 and have released 1 studio album since then. 

Mike Patton has released over 20 studio albums in various bands and collaborations during the FNM period until now, plus dozens and dozens of other appearances and projects

How many solo albums did Axl release in between SI and CD?

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13 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Major songwriters have left the band. Izzy and Slash (riff writer mostly and his sound was a huge part of Gn'R)

Axl had to rebuild Guns with new players. And when I said Gn'R wasn't active what I meant that when it imploded, Axl's ass got sued left and right, and when he finished the album in 1999 (took him only 2 years and he wanted to mix) label didn't think it was good enough. RTB made him record shit twice. Tommy has talked about this.

So you see... it wasn't like every other band. It was Gn'R and Axl had a lot to live up to.

Point taken. But your rhythm guitar player, who was a supporting writer, quiting the band is a little different than your lead singer dying. If Axl had died, the I think yours and Wasted point would be a little more relevant.  

I think most of us give Axl a bowl of lettuce for the original band breaking up. He had to overcome that and rebuild a new band. Noted. 

He gets no quarter for trying to "live up to the GnR name or legacy" - that's all on him. He didn't have to keep the name GnR. He chose that route. The Axl Rose Band would still have had labels sucking his cock to try and sign his band. Slash, Duff, Izzy, Sorum, etc - they all moved on with new bands. Duff didn't go out as Duff's Guns n Roses. He went out as Loaded and Velvet Revolver.

Heck. David Lee Roth got fired form VH and put out two great solo albums. 

Axl chose to keep the name GnR  for all the benefits it afforded him. So he doesn't also get to count that name as a burden that hampered him. It's like a guy winning the lotto for 100 million and then crying because he had to pay 30 million dollars in taxes. 

Axl needed the GnR name as a crutch because he thought he couldn't succeed without it. Which is sad, as 99% of his fans think he easily would have succeed on his own.

So let's give him time off to heal with Yoda and all that crap. That's understandable.

The comeback starts in 1999. Them until today - 17 years - Axl has released one album. Whether he turned in albums that weren't good enough, that got rejected, he had writers block, he wanted to spend 10 years adding layers to one song, a revolving door of musicians - whatever the reasons - Axl has released one album in the last 17 years. 

Axl could have went to the label and said "you rejected these songs , you still get the next GnR album, can I release them under my own name?" And the label would have said Go For It. 

Bottom line - If Axl wanted to share more music with his fans, he easily could have. He chose not to. And his fans are the losers because of it. 

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22 minutes ago, Apollo said:

That's basically what I was about to post. Thank you. 

Let's compare GnR's discography to bands that didn't have main members die.

Stones. Aerosmith. Bon Jovi. Acdc. Metallica. How does Axl's catalog compare to those bands? 

 

"Let's compare GnR's discography to bands that didn't have main members die."

You preceded to do exactly that, two of those bands had major members die.

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22 minutes ago, Apollo said:

Point taken. But your rhythm guitar player, who was a supporting writer, quiting the band is a little different than your lead singer dying. If Axl had died, the I think yours and Wasted point would be a little more relevant.  

I think most of us give Axl a bowl of lettuce for the original band breaking up. He had to overcome that and rebuild a new band. Noted. 

He gets no quarter for trying to "live up to the GnR name or legacy" - that's all on him. He didn't have to keep the name GnR. He chose that route. The Axl Rose Band would still have had labels sucking his cock to try and sign his band. Slash, Duff, Izzy, Sorum, etc - they all moved on with new bands. Duff didn't go out as Duff's Guns n Roses. He went out as Loaded and Velvet Revolver.

Heck. David Lee Roth got fired form VH and put out two great solo albums. 

Axl chose to keep the name GnR  for all the benefits it afforded him. So he doesn't also get to count that name as a burden that hampered him. It's like a guy winning the lotto for 100 million and then crying because he had to pay 30 million dollars in taxes. 

Axl needed the GnR name as a crutch because he thought he couldn't succeed without it. Which is sad, as 99% of his fans think he easily would have succeed on his own.

So let's give him time off to heal with Yoda and all that crap. That's understandable.

The comeback starts in 1999. Them until today - 17 years - Axl has released one album. Whether he turned in albums that weren't good enough, that got rejected, he had writers block, he wanted to spend 10 years adding layers to one song, a revolving door of musicians - whatever the reasons - Axl has released one album in the last 17 years. 

Axl could have went to the label and said "you rejected these songs , you still get the next GnR album, can I release them under my own name?" And the label would have said Go For It. 

Bottom line - If Axl wanted to share more music with his fans, he easily could have. He chose not to. And his fans are the losers because of it. 

Easily could have how exactly? if he was someone else you mean. I've always said I thought Axl was insecure as an artist. I really think without Slash and Duff he was lost. Like I think he really believed (like Marc said) in Robin, and he was obviously relentless when it came to convincing Bucket Gn'R was the band for him.

But he knew he didn't have as many options anymore without Slash, he knew he wouldn't get the same acceptance from the fan base, or at least he'll really have to deliver this time around. Then Robin left, he brought Brian May, Josh left, Brain joined, then Robin came back, Bucket joined, Bucket left, Brain left, Frank and Bumble joined, Merck said they had to tour to make more money to fund the completion of Chinese, Axl tried to stop Greatest Hits...etc.

It was a hot mess. All of this and Axl's musical process of tinkering out of what I feel was insecurity it wasn't good enough and all that was riding on this album: the expectations were so great that my guess is he had to get it right in his mind.

It's complicated, it's not like he had Slash and Duff on his side to make it legit. A lot of fans weren't having it. Then shit started to leak. The leaks probably didn't help him at all. Even if reactions were mostly positive. Then that evil midget tried to make a reunion happen... so much shit.

Not as easy as you said. More like a fuckin' nightmare, a great challenge to put it out like Axl said it was. He also said it was a miracle Chinese got released at all.

Edited by Rovim
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48 minutes ago, Apollo said:

That's basically what I was about to post. Thank you. 

Let's compare GnR's discography to bands that didn't have main members die.

Stones. Aerosmith. Bon Jovi. Acdc. Metallica. How does Axl's catalog compare to those bands? 

???

Bon Scott?

And the band came back and had a second life regardless. 

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Okay, I'll try it one last time. I wasn't arguing about the number of albums, in that regard, their catalogue is small, period.

 

My point was the total length of the material they created, I compared that to another band in my second post, die Ärzte, first release in 1984, 13 albums total.

It's about 7 hours against about 11 hours. From that point of view, it doesn't look that bad anymore, it's actually pretty decent regarding the low number of albums they released.

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5 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Oh hi maynard! sup? :heart:

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14 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Guns N' Roses fans are basically divided in two groups: those who consider the new band as much as GnR as the old one, and those who think that the real GnR ended in 1993 (or 1991 for some) and that the new band was fake GnR.

The first group can rightfully complain about the small catalogue and the long periods without new music.

But as far as the second group goes, it's inconsistent and contradicting to argue that the new band wasn't GnR and CD is not a GnR album, and at the same time to criticize GnR as a band of 30 years with a small catalogue and compare them to The Stones.

EXACTLY

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2 hours ago, Towelie said:

God, you're such a bunch of divs. GNR have five albums, not six, not four and certainly not eight.

AFD - 1 album

UYI1 -1 album

UYI 2 - 1 album

TSI - 1 album

Chinese - 1 album

A few points to consider:

1. Just because an album spans multiple vinyls, it doesn't make it a double album. UYI 1 and 2 were released in the 90s when the standard format for albums was a CD. They released TWO albums of new material on the same day. By Wasted's logic, almost every album released post-1991 would be considered a double album

2. Lies is an EP. If it were eight new tracks recorded between AFD and UYI then that'd be different, but it's not. It's two covers, one alt version, a demo and three original tracks.

3. TSI counts as an album. It doesn't matter if you think it's shit, it's still 12-13 new recordings by GNR. Loads of artists put out cover albums, there's no point in not including it just to try and make GNR look even worse.  

4. Live albums don't count as studio albums and shouldn't be counted in this discussion, nor should Greatest Hits.

5. CD should count as a GNR album as it features many common threads from past GNR albums (same band name, same singer, same piano player, songwriting contributions from both Axl and Paul Tobias - a partnership that dates back to Shadow of Your Love).

spot on ! on all points.

and as for LIES. GN'R, GEFFEN and the rest of the music industry say its an EP so I cant understand why a few grumbling fans insist it is not.

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3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Guns N' Roses fans are basically divided in two groups: those who consider the new band as much as GnR as the old one, and those who think that the real GnR ended in 1993 (or 1991 for some) and that the new band was fake GnR.

The first group can rightfully complain about the small catalogue and the long periods without new music.

But as far as the second group goes, it's inconsistent and contradicting to argue that the new band wasn't GnR and CD is not a GnR album, and at the same time to criticize GnR as a band of 30 years with a small catalogue and compare them to The Stones.

I'm definitely in the second group and for that reason I have no complaints about their catalog. I think GNR released enough albums for the time that it existed.

I don't like calling the other band "fake Guns" though. It sounds insulting to me and I liked that band even if it had nothing to do with GNR IMO.

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14 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I'm definitely in the second group and for that reason I have no complaints about their catalog. I think GNR released enough albums for the time that it existed.

I don't like calling the other band "fake Guns" though. It sounds insulting to me and I liked that band even if it had nothing to do with GNR IMO.

I agree. 

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10 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

If I'd have said 'Love Me Chicken Tenders' the Elvis Presley tribute album done by the previous lineups I'd have lied, but the Chinese Democracy saga is pretty much real.

I haven't heard it so it can't exist. Typical. 

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1 UYI cd = 2 Led Zepp records. 

Use Your Illusion was an optical illusion. A sonic mirage in reverse. 

But I understand the experience of listening to a couple of cds in 91 then waiting til 2008 to listen to another cd you don't even like might cloud your objective judgement. 

The way I look at it is once both bands (Guns and Zepp) are over we will just have the music and the waiting between albums doesn't effect our appraisals. 

In fact, I first listened to Zepp via Remasters and thought it was like a UYI 4-vinyl set of records. But it was so much better because it was a Very Best of Zeppelin. Not a Don't Damn Me or Shotgun Blues in sight. 

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26 minutes ago, wasted said:

1 UYI cd = 2 Led Zepp records. 

Use Your Illusion was an optical illusion. A sonic mirage in reverse. 

But I understand the experience of listening to a couple of cds in 91 then waiting til 2008 to listen to another cd you don't even like might cloud your objective judgement. 

The way I look at it is once both bands (Guns and Zepp) are over we will just have the music and the waiting between albums doesn't effect our appraisals. 

In fact, I first listened to Zepp via Remasters and thought it was like a UYI 4-vinyl set of records. But it was so much better because it was a Very Best of Zeppelin. Not a Don't Damn Me or Shotgun Blues in sight. 

don't damn me or shotgun blues ? I can think of worse examples than that

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