Jump to content
alfierose

GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Andy14 said:

So...just to lighten up this conversation a little (and make you analyze our guys even more :smiley-confused2:)...We all know that Axl loves cats while Slash's a snake guy which says something about them:

17990856_1294879050589950_8460567971501565859_n.jpg?oh=acc4b35c32d4e8ca538b24fab84dccbf&oe=5983DE95

:rofl-lol:

The snake...WTF? :rofl-lol: Yep, Slash, we saw that coming :ph34r:

The cat is very accurate too, I must say :(

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OMG @Andy14 :rofl-lol:

Axl owns cats and also fish, loooool :lol:

Izzy has dogs??? So does Duff!
Slash has snakes?? Still have them? He's got cats too!
Steven has a dog, as far as I remember :lol:

What about people who don't have any pets?
I need to find a definition for myself!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, stella said:

I think this is a pretty spot on assessment. I don't know that Axl would have been considered to be a "bastard" or born out of wedlock because he wasn't - obviously anyone could have done the math from the marriage to birth, but he still was born with all the legal standing as any other kid. But I do think that whatever judgment or poor opinions people in his town had about his parents probably really trailed after him and contributed a lot to the way he was targeted.

They wanted to charge Axl with being a habitual criminal, and there's more than one person who has mentioned that the police unfairly picked on him...and by all accounts the crimes he was committing were things like fighting and disturbing the peace, which are pretty minor in the scheme of things. There definitely seems like there was a huge vendetta there.

Bullying here really isn't exaggerated or a joke at all, no...there are kids who are physically assaulted and emotionally tortured to the point where they kill themselves, end up with a lifetime of trauma, or snap and kill others. And even though there's supposed to be more awareness for it now, it still comes down to the fact that a lot of the time, teachers do absolutely fucking nothing to stop it, or they actually encourage it. Plenty of the teachers are bullies too. When I was in school the teachers shrugged if a kid got beaten up or harassed, even if the parents complained. And I very much remember having teachers who targeted certain kids in their classes and picked on them mercilessly. One year I was the target of my teacher; another year there was another girl who was literally driven from the school because the teacher was so savage to her.

I remember that my friends and I were told by our parents that if another kid hit us, we needed to hit them back. We all knew going to the teachers would do nothing, and the only way to stop being attacked was to let the other kid know that you could and would defend yourself.

So it's not a surprise that Axl's teachers and coaches did nothing about the bullying and don't see a problem with doing nothing.

And yeah, especially in that era, in that part of the USA (which is still pretty religious and conservative even now), someone who got pregnant would had have really no viable choice but to either get married or leave town. There definitely would have been people who would have vilified any girl who had sex outside of marriage, even if she got married later, and considered them "bad" or "damaged goods." Getting divorced in the early 60s was pretty scandalous too, even in major cities. Husband who keeps getting arrested? That would reflect back on the wife and kids, too. And of course in that era if there were any sort of domestic abuse or child abuse going on, it was totally ignored.

So there would have been a ton of judgment heaped on Axl's mom, which must have been absolutely horrible for her.

Going toward a super-religious community may have seemed like a refuge - there's the idea in many evangelical Christian communities that if you come to God, all your sins are forgiven. But meanwhile they will also be held over your head and you are shamed relentlessly for them, and it's supposed to be your duty to repent for them. Some of those communities openly believe that beating your kids is somehow "Biblical" and that the male head of the household has the right to run it however harshly he pleases.

It sounds like a horrible situation to grow up in.

 

Very smart description!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, killuridols said:

I'm very sorry but really.... what a bunch of crap! :lol:

Not every adult person is dumb, stupid, limited, uneducated, lacks common sense or critical views in life. "Prodigies" are like 1% of the world wide population and not every smart or above average intelligence person is a "prodigy" either.

Defying authority and disrespecting people in general is far from being "smart". I'm not saying you have to accept everything someone with power says because they can be wrong too, but in general, trying to play smartass with an authority is as dumb as it can get and it will lead you to trouble. Smart people do not ruin their lives with stupid mistakes.

Not every teenager have a problem with authority. I never did, nor my friends and a big extended list of people that I know did ever got involved with the police, delinquency, or disrespected teachers, etc.

I have constant problem with authorities (or authorities have problem with me) in a way I describe. There are authorities I really respect as whole (not just for particular ability) and they are usually not ones you meet as your high school teachers (there are few rare ones who are).  If you read it calmly, you would see that I picked professions where you meet more often the ones who know what is right and would want you to obey rules. 

I never had anything with police (I was never testosterone-driven teenage lad, too) and grew up in mainly friendly environment. 

I don`t have better word for these kids than "smart", because they see things and think about them and confront. They are not smart in a way how to smoothly survive in collective, and at the end it does not matter, because what`s matter is honesty. Also some kind of teasing the rules for how far one can get. It`s mindset, nothing more, nothing less. It goes less sharp with aging. 

Maybe it`s stupid in first row, but you can change things in long run. I really don`t like this sorting decisions on good and bad, because you never know how it will end up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, stella said:

That makes a lot of sense, re: the churches. Lutherans definitely aren't fire-and-brimstone types, so even if she was there a lot, I would guess it must have been a much less extreme environment.

And that is such a good point regarding the police department. It would have been less than 20 years later...it would have been recent enough for many of the police officers to remember the father. I would guess that their attitude toward Axl might have been influenced really heavily due to that. The same might have been true with teachers in the local schools. If Axl thought they were coming down on him especially harshly and were out to get him - well, that might have been true and it might have had nothing at all to do with him.

 

The same thing might even be true of Axl's parents.

Axl's step father certainly must have known all about William Rose and probably considered him a sinful, good-for-nothing criminal. He was probably very concerned about Axl turning out like his bilogical father, especially when he started showing signs of being difficult. "Bad genes" and all that. So he probably figured he would have to try extra hard to keep Axl on the straight and narrow and since he was young, dumb and a religious fanatic, his idea of child raising likely consisted of "spare the rod, spoil the child", as the bible says, and not much else :rolleyes::facepalm: And since Axl was already at risk of becoming a rotten apple by virtue of his parentage alone and also showed some "bad" behavior, Larry Stephen Bailey probably decided an extra dose of the metaphorical rod was needed, even more so than for the average child.

Axl's mother hated Axl's biological father so much, her "eyes would turn black" every time he was mentioned (according to Axl). I could see her being worried about Axl turning out like his biological father as well. Which might be part of the reason why she went along with her husband being so "strict" (I hate calling it that, but that's probably what they viewed it as) with Axl. Axl's mom was a young, probably naive girl who had already been through a lot of trauma too. Maybe she told herself it was for the best and her husband was doing everything in his power to prevent Axl from turning out like the man she hated so much.

 

---------------

@MillionsOfSpiders about Bumblefoot's interview: I don't share @killuridols cynical assassment lol and I really doubt he ever wants  back into GNR again. From what I've read, the guy was absolutely miserable during his time in the band and he's proabbly looking forward to doing stuff he actually enjoys. Bumblefoot strikes me as a pretty intelligent and thoughtful guy, and also a pretty decent fellow, so he probably just wanted to be nice to someone he has no real problem with and probably felt sorry for at certain points.

 

40 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

So...just to lighten up this conversation a little (and make you analyze our guys even more :smiley-confused2:)...We all know that Axl loves cats while Slash's a snake guy which says something about them:

17990856_1294879050589950_8460567971501565859_n.jpg?oh=acc4b35c32d4e8ca538b24fab84dccbf&oe=5983DE95

:rofl-lol:

@killuridols, @Lumikki, @Frey, @BorderlineCrazy, @MillionsOfSpiders, @Blackstar and others, feel free to discuss :rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

 

Axl and cats is accurate.

And Slash and snakes.... uuuhm yeah, that one is spot on, as we have learned in this thread :ph34r::awesomeface::facepalm:

Though iirc, Slash didn't admit to loving it, he complained about not liking it when people did that to him. Though that might have just been his "no homo" thing at play again

 

 

 

 

Edited by Frey
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

So...just to lighten up this conversation a little (and make you analyze our guys even more :smiley-confused2:)...We all know that Axl loves cats while Slash's a snake guy which says something about them:

17990856_1294879050589950_8460567971501565859_n.jpg?oh=acc4b35c32d4e8ca538b24fab84dccbf&oe=5983DE95

:rofl-lol:

@killuridols, @Lumikki, @Frey, @BorderlineCrazy, @MillionsOfSpiders, @Blackstar and others, feel free to discuss :rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

To be fair with Slash, I think he'd have every animal there is in the entire world if he could, starting with elephants. That said, snakes seem to be his first choice, so.... uhmm... active or passive? :huh:

I'm not completely sure about the accuracy of this, though. I have a cat but it wasn't my decision and I don't hate everyone, just half of you :ph34r: :lol: I can become a very reclusive bastard at times, though, but I've gotten better lately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Alja said:

I have constant problem with authorities (or authorities have problem with me) in a way I describe. There are authorities I really respect as whole (not just for particular ability) and they are usually not ones you meet as your high school teachers (there are few rare ones who are).  If you read it calmly, you would see that I picked professions where you meet more often the ones who know what is right and would want you to obey rules. 

I never had anything with police (I was never testosterone-driven teenage lad, too) and grew up in mainly friendly environment. 

I don`t have better word for these kids than "smart", because they see things and think about them and confront. They are not smart in a way how to smoothly survive in collective, and at the end it does not matter, because what`s matter is honesty. Also some kind of teasing the rules for how far one can get. It`s mindset, nothing more, nothing less. It goes less sharp with aging. 

Maybe it`s stupid in first row, but you can change things in long run. I really don`t like this sorting decisions on good and bad, because you never know how it will end up.

I really don't know what's your point. You derail too much :shrugs:

Are you saying you are a very smart kid who defies authority because you are a prodigy and cannot tolerate the system?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Axl has a zoo!! He's everything!! :lol:

Indeed, Axl have??and???z

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ratam said:

Indeed, Axl have??and???z

I'm disappointed there are no spiders in the chart :max: lol

Myself, I have cats, a dog, a huge tank full of saltwater fish and a rabbit :lol: 

I like my black cat best :heart:

----

@Frey Thanks for replying to my post, I haven't much time at the mo but I'll get back to you :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, invading the women's discussion really quick. After seeing the pictures of Axl's mother and the detective work done on her, does anyone know what his father looks like? Are there any legit photos of William Rose out there? I feel like if he was in and out of jail like is reported, there'd be some public photos of him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I'm disappointed there are no spiders in the chart :max: lol

Myself, I have cats, a dog, a huge tank full of saltwater fish and a rabbit :lol: 

I like my black cat best :heart:

----

@Frey Thanks for replying to my post, I haven't much time at the mo but I'll get back to you :) 

Hahaha good one  Axle have full zoo 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, tajandreas said:

Alright, invading the women's discussion really quick. After seeing the pictures of Axl's mother and the detective work done on her, does anyone know what his father looks like? Are there any legit photos of William Rose out there? I feel like if he was in and out of jail like is reported, there'd be some public photos of him. 

Someone had posted in the old thread a school yearbook picture of a "William Rose", but we can't be sure that it's him.

I couldn't find any pictures of him in the Lafayette paper. There are no pictures of the people arrested, just reports. As far as I can tell from the issues I went through, the local people featured in the paper with a picture were mainly 1) brides 2) awarded students/pupils (there was Axl's uncle) 3) prominent figures of the town.

 

 

 

Edited by Blackstar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Frey said:

The same thing might even be true of Axl's parents.

Axl's step father certainly must have known all about William Rose and probably considered him a sinful, good-for-nothing criminal. He was probably very concerned about Axl turning out like his bilogical father, especially when he started showing signs of being difficult. "Bad genes" and all that. So he probably figured he would have to try extra hard to keep Axl on the straight and narrow and since he was young, dumb and a religious fanatic, his idea of child raising likely consisted of "spare the rod, spoil the child", as the bible says, and not much else :rolleyes::facepalm: And since Axl was already at risk of becoming a rotten apple by virtue of his parentage alone and also showed some "bad" behavior, Larry Stephen Bailey probably decided an extra dose of the metaphorical rod was needed, even more so than for the average child.

Axl's mother hated Axl's biological father so much, her "eyes would turn black" every time he was mentioned (according to Axl). I could see her being worried about Axl turning out like his biological father as well. Which might be part of the reason why she went along with her husband being so "strict" (I hate calling it that, but that's probably what they viewed it as) with Axl. Axl's mom was a young, probably naive girl who had already been through a lot of trauma too. Maybe she told herself it was for the best and her husband was doing everything in his power to prevent Axl from turning out like the man she hated so much.

---------------

@MillionsOfSpiders about Bumblefoot's interview: From what I've read, the guy was absolutely miserable during his time in the band and he's proabbly looking forward to doing stuff he actually enjoys. Bumblefoot strikes me as a pretty intelligent and thoughtful guy, and also a pretty decent fellow, so he probably just wanted to be nice to someone he has no real problem with and probably felt sorry for at certain points.

 

I get the feeling from everything that has been said that the stepfather was a controlling, very abusive person himself. According to Axl, all three of the kids were beaten, and we know what happened to Amy. But yes, I would believe that "this kid needs to stay on the straight and narrow, and it's my biblical right to make that happens" was used as a justification. From what I know, in very religious groups like that, any questioning or deviating at all from what is expected is something that is crushed down as quickly as possible.

Someone in a relationship with a  person like that like that often learns to feel like they deserve whatever is going on and whatever is being done - they convince themselves that it's all true and justified. I think you're right; his mom was young, had already been through a lot and may have unfortunately fallen right into that thinking.

I think there was also a power play there. Axl was the oldest kid, and therefore the alpha in the sibling pecking order - beating down the oldest kid, the leader, prevents him/her from being able to help the others. It also makes it more likely that the others will fall in line because they have the example of what happened to their sibling.


And RE: Bumblefoot, I agree with you. He seems to be a really pleasant, really professional guy, and it seems as though he really did his best to make his time in GnR work for him. He was handed a lot of very shitty circumstances, especially that accident, and he still tried to keep going. And even now he's nothing but pleasant and professional when he's asked about GnR. He was in that band for almost a decade - that is more than a respectable time to stay in one job.

 

If he were working in a "normal" career nobody would think it was odd for him to leave his job after almost a decade when it was no longer working for him. I don't think his departure from GnR is any reason to crucify him either.

Edited by stella
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alja said:

I don`t say there is no bullying here (I was favorite target, too, even adult. I also had to defend myself, although not physically), but this is quiet extreme what you write about. 

Other is religion thing, here it`s more with strict Catholics who insist others to live by their rules without looking at particular human being. And love juicy gossip about who is having sex with who with child as a definitive proof. They will count months. Sometimes I ask myself if they know any other sin than adultery to gossip (god forgives, they don`t) or as if they somehow wanted you to be a sinner to feel better themselves. They glorify women who let themselves and children be abused and don`t get divorced. 

Oh dear. That doesn't sound very nice. There are some people like that here, who will glorify women who stay in bad marriages "for the children." Catholics here actually tend to be nicer about unwed mothers than the evangelical Christians are - if the mother had the baby it meant she didn't have an abortion, and it also means there's another person who can be baptized and raised Catholic. But from what I have heard, American Catholics are a lot more liberal than many others around the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Andy14 said:

So...just to lighten up this conversation a little (and make you analyze our guys even more :smiley-confused2:)...We all know that Axl loves cats while Slash's a snake guy which says something about them:

17990856_1294879050589950_8460567971501565859_n.jpg?oh=acc4b35c32d4e8ca538b24fab84dccbf&oe=5983DE95

 

*cough* cat here. Yep. It applies.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tajandreas said:

Alright, invading the women's discussion really quick. After seeing the pictures of Axl's mother and the detective work done on her, does anyone know what his father looks like? Are there any legit photos of William Rose out there? I feel like if he was in and out of jail like is reported, there'd be some public photos of him. 

There are two HS yearbook photos of William Rose that I know of.  I can see a similar expression, and a similar hairline?  In a town the size of Lafayette, no way there is more than one William Rose of the exact same age.  

bill rose 1959 soph.JPG

william rose 1961 jr.png

352FE30500000578-3637811-image-a-49_1465756687387.jpg

Axl Rose 3.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Frey said:

Axl and cats is accurate.

And Slash and snakes.... uuuhm yeah, that one is spot on, as we have learned in this thread :ph34r::awesomeface::facepalm:

Though iirc, Slash didn't admit to loving it, he complained about not liking it when people did that to him. Though that might have just been his "no homo" thing at play again

Maybe Its the opposite, He didnt like when Someone did it to Him but He like when He did it to "You-know-who ":ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, triad said:

There are two HS yearbook photos of William Rose that I know of.  I can see a similar expression, and a similar hairline?  In a town the size of Lafayette, no way there is more than one William Rose of the exact same age.  

bill rose 1959 soph.JPG

william rose 1961 jr.png

352FE30500000578-3637811-image-a-49_1465756687387.jpg

Axl Rose 3.jpg

Whoa. The first picture is a little blurry but judging by the second one that's definitely his hairline. Even more noticeable now. Was watching the China Exchange interview the other day and that smile looks familiar as well. Mouth looks similar.. I'm convinced. Thanks for the photos! Always cool to put two faces together and see genetics do their work.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, triad said:

There are two HS yearbook photos of William Rose that I know of.  I can see a similar expression, and a similar hairline?  In a town the size of Lafayette, no way there is more than one William Rose of the exact same age.  

bill rose 1959 soph.JPG

william rose 1961 jr.png

I hadn't seen the first one before - thanks for posting it!. The other (with the glasses) is the one that was posted in the old thread. I suppose it's the same guy in both, in different years.

I don't see any resemblance with Axl in the second one. But the first one (the blurry)... hmm... maybe some similarity in the expression, especially with some of Axl's kid pictures. And yes, the hairline is similar, but the mother had a big forehead as well. Regardless, most likely this was the guy.

--

The last report I found about him in the Lafayette paper is from late 1966, when he was in jail awaiting trial (Axl's mother was already married to his stepfather by that time). Nothing after that; he "disappears". I also looked in the rest of Indiana and in Illinois - nothing there either (but apparently there is no online archive of all the newspapers there).

Edited by Blackstar
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I hadn't seen the first one before. The other (with the glasses) is the one thiat was posted in the old thread. I suppose it's the same guy in both, in different years.

I don't see any resemblance with Axl in the second one. But the first one (the blurry)... hmm... maybe some similarity in the expression, especially with some of Axl's kid pictures.

And yes, the hairline is similar, but the mother had a big forehead as well.

--

The last report I found about him in the Lafayette paper is from late 1966, when he was in jail awaiting trial. Nothing after that; he "disappears". I also looked in the rest of Indiana and in Illinois - nothing there either (but apparently there is no online archive of all the newspapers there).

Yeah, he probably looks more like his mom, but I definitely see a resemblance around the mouth and the eyes.  

Capture.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

9 minutes ago, triad said:

Yeah, he probably looks more like his mom, but I definitely see a resemblance around the mouth and the eyes.  

Capture.JPG

Yeah, probably the mouth...

I see bigger resemblance (in the expression) here:

bill rose 1959 soph.JPGlarge.jpg

and maybe with the oldest mugshot (but the expression doesn't help there).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×