Jump to content
alfierose

GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

GN'R Official Facebook account posted this today:

A month left!

Who's going from here??

I know @Andy14, @Lumikki, @MillionsOfSpiders, @dgnr, @money honey, @giuls will......... :P

What about @Carlycosmos?? I havent heard from her in ages!!

Only a month?

Don't remind me :scared:

15 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

I go to Munich :headbang::lol:

Me too! Munich and Vienna will be my shows this year :heart:

:headbang:

8 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

Yiss Yiss. Axl for sure can't wait to see me in Prague and then in Vienna with @Lumikki. I bet he's counting down the days

13065781_1578941119102349_1217286974_n.p

:rofl-lol:

Of course. -_-  I mean, why wouldn't he be looking forward to seeing some of his most obnoxious hardcore fans? :awesomeface:

 

28 minutes ago, Frey said:
2 hours ago, killuridols said:

How did people react about those confessions? :question: What people?? Media, the fans??

I dont remember anything, really... Maybe I was too little to understand certain things or did not have access to the American media, so I'm not sure what reactions he refers to. All I know is what he said in that rant, that his own family had not reacted well to what he said, which is kind of "understandable", because those things are awful to be aired in national media just like that. I don't know...

He was also complaining about other people (like neighbors and more distant relatives I guess) talking badly about him in that rant- "Look what he's done to his mother, she can't even go out of the house now!"

Other musicians, who are/were aware of the stuff he said in those interviews have also used it against him, like Gene Simmons or Kurt Cobain.

But I was mostly referring to what he said in 2012:

Psychological issues: "I worked out a lot of them. It was strange to get successful and lose almost your entire family. Then you end up with daytime TV talk shows. All of a sudden, things considered horrific when I was growing up were so what? You were abused? Who cares? There should be more of a public acknowledgement of reality. When I talked to Rolling Stone about it, I thought people would take a harder look at my stepdad. Instead, they came down harder on me. That's still confusing to me. But surviving at any level is good. I'm a lot better than a lot of people predicted. They were rooting for the opposite. There were things on the Internet about how I'd be found dead. I had a very dark attitude."

 

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

About his biological father and stepfather:

 

"With the help of regression therapy I uncovered that my real dad, not my stepdad, sexually abused me. The most powerful anger was this two-year-old child's anger because it was hurt. Nothing could really scare me, because I'd already seen hell. I'd been killed at two and lived through it, and I was miserable because I'd lived through it. I was miserable for 28 years. My stepdad came into my life when I was three or four, and I didn't even know my real father existed until I was 17. I was separated from myself at an early age, and my stepfather made sure I never put myself back together, with his confusing mixed messages of love and brutality. He'd love me one minute, then beat me the next. I've had to learn how to shed both of these men's personalities. I'll take two steps forward, then one step back, but I'm into it."

This is from the "I, Axl" interview for Rip Magazine, November 1992 > http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=12

It's crazy but those two paragraphs about his parents answer a lot of the speculations we usually dwell about in our discussions:

- He is aware his mother was too insecure to leave the abusive stepfather.
- He puts it out clear the stepfather did not sexually abuse him (Zutaut's story enters the doubious zone again)
- He confirms the stepfather entered his life when he was 3 or 4 years old, which is the math we did the other day.

Also, the comment about the stepdad sending confusing messages of love and brutality to him. "He'd love me one minute, then beat me the next". Awfully coincidental with the way he treated both Erin and Stephanie. :unsure:

 

We knew that Axl has said his stepfather did not sexually abuse him (at least I knew he had said that and I had the impression everyone else discussing this was aware as well).

I mean that's why we were debating this in the first place- because what Zutaut says is in direct opposition to what Axl has said. Iirc we even speculated why Axl might have lied about this, or at least made it seem like it only happened to his sister, if we assume that what Zutaut says is true.

I had forgotten about him saying that his mother stayed with his stepfather out of insecurity though. That answers some questions, yeah.

He appears very conflicted about his mother in that interview. There's still some love and that old feeling of wanting to help and protect her he describes, but also a lot of bitterness and him  just letting go of everything and leaving it (and her) behind.

 

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

What I always found confusing with Axl and his 80ies and 90ies interview is, that he sounds so reflective, so understanding and rational about what's going on with him. He does understand some things about the connection of emotional life, experiences and how it can affect you in the present. But he seems not to being able to put that learning into a more understanding, more loving (towards girl-friends), more considered behaviour. It is as if his rational mind is not connected to his behaviour at all.

I don't think it's that confusing. Knowing and being aware of something theoretically doesn't necessarily translate into making the appropriate choices in real life.

It's like these people who swear to themselves they'd never be like their parents, but then they actually have children and fall back into the behavioral patterns of their own parents and slap their kid or scream at it sometimes.

Unfortunately, people tend to revert to the behavioral patterns that are ingrained into them when in situations of high stress or pressure. If those behavioral patterns are ones of violence and aggression, as learned since early childhood, then :shrugs: It takes a lot of work to overcome shit like this, but I have to hand it to Axl on this one, he's one of the few people I can think of who seems to have significantly improved and really turned things around in this regard.

(Interestingly enough, I also remember both Axl himself and Gina Siler talking about how it's not really a rational thing when Axl gets angry, but more like a switch getting flipped and all reason flying out of the window. To me this explains why Axl appears like a very likable, charming fellow when in a good mood, but how he could be utterly terrifying to be around for people like Erin or Gina, when he was upset or mad about something. Instead of reacting like the average person when in some kind of emotional turmoil (i.e. upset or angry, yeah, but not violent or scary), he probably reacted like his step father would.)

I agree with most of this.

Another person who used Axl's openness about his childhood against him was Irving Azoff during the lawsuits, in a similar manner as Kurt Cobain.

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Frey said:

He was also complaining about other people (like neighbors and more distant relatives I guess) talking badly about him in that rant- "Look what he's done to his mother, she can't even go out of the house now!"

Other musicians, who are/were aware of the stuff he said in those interviews have also used it against him, like Gene Simmons or Kurt Cobain.

But I was mostly referring to what he said in 2012:

Psychological issues: "I worked out a lot of them. It was strange to get successful and lose almost your entire family. Then you end up with daytime TV talk shows. All of a sudden, things considered horrific when I was growing up were so what? You were abused? Who cares? There should be more of a public acknowledgement of reality. When I talked to Rolling Stone about it, I thought people would take a harder look at my stepdad. Instead, they came down harder on me. That's still confusing to me. But surviving at any level is good. I'm a lot better than a lot of people predicted. They were rooting for the opposite. There were things on the Internet about how I'd be found dead. I had a very dark attitude."

Hmm... Yes, but it was naive from him to think his family would react positively to the public exposition of such topics that are so shaming and shameful.

What he said about his mother is terrible, I guess no mother could handle hearing that from her own son. The acussation against the stepfather is also disturbing... who would like to be labeled as a child abuser and child molester?

The early 90's were still a decade of silence regarding child abuse and domestic violence. I think the Michael Jackson case helped to bring out more awareness about that and also the O.J. Simpson case, but there was still a long way to go for the society to be more sensitive towards the victims of abuse.

5 hours ago, Frey said:

(Interestingly enough, I also remember both Axl himself and Gina Siler talking about how it's not really a rational thing when Axl gets angry, but more like a switch getting flipped and all reason flying out of the window. To me this explains why Axl appears like a very likable, charming fellow when in a good mood, but how he could be utterly terrifying to be around for people like Erin or Gina, when he was upset or mad about something. Instead of reacting like the average person when in some kind of emotional turmoil (i.e. upset or angry, yeah, but not violent or scary), he probably reacted like his step father would.)

Yes, I very much agree with your point of view and it sucks when I read men like Zutaut and Niven and also some women saying that Erin knew how to push his buttons and that she was aggressive as well.

Axl is volatile and he doesn't need someone pushing his buttons for him to explode in one second. He just gets upset because it is the untamed lion sleeping inside. And even if those women "did something to upset him" :rolleyes: he always had the option to walk away. But sometimes toxic relationships are really hard to leave and the violence scalates to a point of no return.

Evidently, the childhood trauma did so much damage that he wasn't able to see he was reenacting his stepfather in his own relationships with women back then. 

I think Axl wanted to fix it with Erin and try again, probably promising he wouldn't hurt her this time, but she had enough of all that and she was very determined in never coming back.

5 hours ago, Tori72 said:

what did Kurt Cobain say?

He didn't say anything about the abuse, only that he "jokingly" used the name Bill Bailey to register himself at hotels but honestly, I don't think Cobain knew much about Axl to that point.

Cobain basically despised him because Axl represented, in his mind, everything he didn't want to be: a rockstar, a macho man, sexist, homophobic and racist. I must admit don't know much about Cobain so I can't really say he was truly all the opposite to Axl. Kinda hard to find a "feminist" guy in the 90s and also one who advocated for minorities, but if he really was like that, then he was very advanced for his time and I can see why he didn't want any association with Axl.

“His role has been played for years. Ever since the beginning of rock and roll, there’s been an Axl Rose. And it’s just boring. It’s totally boring to me. Why it’s such a fresh and new thing in his eyes is obviously because it’s happening to him personally and he’s such an egotistical person that he thinks that the whole world owes him something.”—Kurt Cobain on Axl Rose, as quoted by Michael Azerrad in Come As You Are: The Story Of Nirvana.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Alja said:

Low self-esteem or strongly suffering are the most vulnerable interesting for predator types, in first row as a toy and if they are source of money and influence... It can be true vicious circle or, more, downward spiral.

People in untreatable stage of their disease (or if offered treatment which is unbearable for them or various other reasons) tend to believe in absurd system. People aren`t rational. Many times they are exhausted or discontent or whatever with scientific medicine, so they try these "alternatives". Or they think we are just BigPharma servants who don`t mind them or whatever drives them. It is also dangerous to implicitly believe in "evidence based medicine" without questioning or further research or relying on meds treatment without other changes. The thing is that if you are charming enough and can build up an argument, you can reason a person into quiet absurd and dangerous things. Biochemistry or not, at the end people lean to attention and human care more than cold results.

ITA. I think when people are hurting in any way, they are often so desperate that they look for anyone or anything that might have an answer for them. And the predators really capitalize on that.

I do also agree that with evidence -based medicine and traditional Western healthcare, it's important to be an active partner in one's health management. I really think people should always have full information on the benefits/risks and make decisions *with* their doctors, instead of just nodding and doing what they are told. Because there are certain things in mainstream medicine that aren't always beneficial, like certain meds get really overprescribed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, killuridols said:

Hmm... Yes, but it was naive from him to think his family would react positively to the public exposition of such topics that are so shaming and shameful.

What he said about his mother is terrible, I guess no mother could handle hearing that from her own son. The acussation against the stepfather is also disturbing... who would like to be labeled as a child abuser and child molester?

The early 90's were still a decade of silence regarding child abuse and domestic violence. I think the Michael Jackson case helped to bring out more awareness about that and also the O.J. Simpson case, but there was still a long way to go for the society to be more sensitive towards the victims of abuse.

Yeah, I think what Axl did was brave, but maybe it wasn't the right time yet.

If it had been 2017 instead of 1992, his comments might have been received a lot better.

 

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

Yes, I very much agree with your point of view and it sucks when I read men like Zutaut and Niven and also some women saying that Erin knew how to push his buttons and that she was aggressive as well.

Axl is volatile and he doesn't need someone pushing his buttons for him to explode in one second. He just gets upset because it is the untamed lion sleeping inside. And even if those women "did something to upset him" :rolleyes: he always had the option to walk away. But sometimes toxic relationships are really hard to leave and the violence scalates to a point of no return.

Evidently, the childhood trauma did so much damage that he wasn't able to see he was reenacting his stepfather in his own relationships with women back then. 

I think Axl wanted to fix it with Erin and try again, probably promising he wouldn't hurt her this time, but she had enough of all that and she was very determined in never coming back.

Well Niven is a complete tool, so his opinion on anything can be disregarded anyway, and Zutaut... is a bit of a questionable character at least.

What they probably saw was Erin reacting in passive-aggressive or vaguely toxic ways to the situation she was in. But I think anyone would do that in unhealthy relationships like that, unless they're a complete doormat or completely intimidated by their partner. Not to mention that Erin came from a dysfunctional family background herself and was very young at the time, so it isn't exactly surprising she might not always have acted in the most mature ways.

But at the end of the day, it wasn't Erin or Gina who beat Axl badly enough he had to go to hospital or until he had to stop working. It wasn't them who would get violent with him because of ridiculous reasons like stubbing their toe. Not to mention other awful stuff I don't even wanna get into again now. So whatver they did or didn't do doesn't even begin to compare to what Axl did, and it's dumb to present this stuff the way Niven and Zutaut do.

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Yiss Yiss. Axl for sure can't wait to see me in Prague and then in Vienna with @Lumikki. I bet he's counting down the days

13065781_1578941119102349_1217286974_n.p

:rofl-lol:

They zooomed in on Scotland for the UK, I sure hope they figure out where London is in time for June :lol:

(note to GnR staff - it's completely the opposite end of the UK :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Tequila, it makes me happy... 

I want some WAR tequila :lol:

I used to love WAR but I had tequila 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 26/04/2017 at 10:05 PM, money honey said:

 

LOLOL! Where did you find that picture?!

It was on a Facebook page for UK&Ireland GnR fans, I blocked the page now because they're counting down and I'm starting to stress about how they haven't even started sending tickets for London yet :lol:

I can't relive the last day ticket drama I had with AXL/DC :( I'll be in London the whole week, they best be here before I leave :max:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, stella said:

The conflicted feelings seem to be a common thing for kids who were abused. They love their mom or dad, but they wonder why that parent did nothing to protect them from the abuser. In a lot of cases the parent's being abused too, or feels completely stuck in the relationship. It's not so easy as just walking away sometimes. Many times women in abusive relationships have no money, no recent job skills and several little kids, and they have no way to support those kids if they walk out. And the local townsfolk may side with the abuser because they are so often "fine upstanding citizens," and therefore not offer help to the victim.

And I agree, Axl really does seem to have done a lot to identify the patterns he learned in childhood and try to break that chain. Most people don't do that.

Yeah, lots of abused kids (even ones who've suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a parent) feel confliced and torn about their parents. And what you describe is pretty close probably to the situation Axl's mom must have been in.

I remember Axl talking about how abuse and violence is generational and tends to run in some families and then he said something like "It stops with me." That line has always stuck with me. And it seems he really succeeded in the end.

 

32 minutes ago, SerenityScorp said:

Anyone know why He tweer this? 

tumblr_inline_onc5ekP36u1tgw2kh_540.png

It was in response to the South Park episode where it's revealed that Slash is not real, but just a fairy tale character.

 

4 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Tequila, it makes me happy... 

I want some WAR tequila :lol:

Any of you guys plan on buying some WAR lingerie? :lol::facepalm:

Or a lunch box at least? :P

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well dats cute

I wish Slash posting sone normal tweets like tht instead of IG Horror Porn

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SerenityScorp said:

Not really....

Dear Erin,

        Hi love, how are you doing? It’s just before dawn here in Hamburg and I was thinking of you. And I didn’t want to wake Izzy so I thought I’d be different. The flights were actually fun. I’m reading my book and trying hard. I just took a much needed hot bath and read a little. It (the book) seems to give me new hope– I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone.
Hamburg seems to be cool but I've noticed the people are much harsher than any place I've been. Now I know where it really comes from.

Tell Torque and Geneve I love them and will see them soon. Hopefully we will have talked before you get this note- I love you, and I miss you. Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life.

Wish me luck - I'm gonna get some more sleep and hopefully go out and see the sights tonite.

Thinking of you always,
Love - Axl -

:cry::unsure::cry:

---

Did he stay in the same room with Izzy?
 

 

Edited by killuridols

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Frey said:

Yeah, lots of abused kids (even ones who've suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a parent) feel confliced and torn about their parents. And what you describe is pretty close probably to the situation Axl's mom must have been in.

I remember Axl talking about how abuse and violence is generational and tends to run in some families and then he said something like "It stops with me." That line has always stuck with me. And it seems he really succeeded in the end.

 

It was in response to the South Park episode where it's revealed that Slash is not real, but just a fairy tale character.

 

Any of you guys plan on buying some WAR lingerie? :lol::facepalm:

Or a lunch box at least? :P

 

 

LOL.

Im gonna buy two WAR lunch boxes and send my kids to school with them :lol:

I wonder what he's up to? Opening a taco restaurant? :lol: As sad as it is I would want to go to that soooo bad :lol:

Edited by MillionsOfSpiders
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

They zooomed in on Scotland for the UK, I sure hope they figure out where London is in time for June :lol:

(note to GnR staff - it's completely the opposite end of the UK :)

I noticed that too lol...I was like ummm what?! :lol:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Not really....

Dear Erin,

        Hi love, how are you doing? It’s just before dawn here in Hamburg and I was thinking of you. And I didn’t want to wake Izzy so I thought I’d be different. The flights were actually fun. I’m reading my book and trying hard. I just took a much needed hot bath and read a little. It (the book) seems to give me new hope– I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone.
Hamburg seems to be cool but I've noticed the people are much harsher than any place I've been. Now I know where it really comes from.

Tell Torque and Geneve I love them and will see them soon. Hopefully we will have talked before you get this note- I love you, and I miss you. Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life.

Wish me luck - I'm gonna get some more sleep and hopefully go out and see the sights tonite.

Thinking of you always,
Love - Axl -

:cry::unsure::cry:

---

Did he stay in the same room with Izzy?
 

 

:rolleyes: what about Slash :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, SerenityScorp said:

:rolleyes: what about Slash :rolleyes:

????this a"BAD OBSESSION" ,girls?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SerenityScorp said:

:rolleyes: what about Slash :rolleyes:

He forced Meegan to look like Axl for a while.... :rolleyes:

tumblr_ohjzj2rKCl1vkt6tqo1_540.jpg

tumblr_onzs2z9EJ51vkt6tqo3_540.jpg

tumblr_omd11dl6FM1vkt6tqo1_1280.jpg  hqdefault.jpg

:ph34r:

 

Edited by killuridols
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, killuridols said:

He forced Meegan to look like Axl for a while.... :rolleyes:

tumblr_ohjzj2rKCl1vkt6tqo1_540.jpg

tumblr_onzs2z9EJ51vkt6tqo3_540.jpg

tumblr_omd11dl6FM1vkt6tqo1_1280.jpg  hqdefault.jpg

:ph34r:

 

Dat first pic? Is dat really Her? 

 

If You want to be Slash GF, You have to dress like Axl:lol:

 

@Ratam No. "This" s a bad obsession.  

*But I like this bad obsession of Slash:ph34r:

Edited by SerenityScorp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×