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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

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39 minutes ago, Frey said:

Not new, but I actually find it hard to read letters like this (not just from Axl, but other people's letters in general).

Stuff like

I’m reading my book and trying hard. I just took a much needed hot bath and read a little. It (the book) seems to give me new hope– I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone.

or

Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life.

is so intensly personal and private, it makes you want to look away.

It's Axl at his most vulnerable and it's also pretty fucking sad. Makes you wonder what he was feeling so alone about? And finally help him and understand him regarding what? His mental health issues? His childhood? Curious to know what book he was reading.

And that other sentence :unsure: Paints a picture of a very dysfunctional relationship right there. Erin probably leaving after they had a bad fight once again, then returning after all and holding and comforting Axl, even though he was likely to blame for making her leave in the first place. :unsure:

 

I think he probably did share a room with Izzy there, yeah.

Before they got super famous and when they first started touring, they probably had to share rooms.

Reminds me of these pics of Slash and Steven in bed, where Slash appears passed out and Steven is all over Slash. I guess they were sharing a room when these pictures were taken as well.

 

Room sharing politics must have been fun back then:

 

Izzy: "Why do I always have to share with Axl?"

Steven: "Because I'm too scared to share a room with him and you're the only one we're sure he won't kill."

...

Steven: "What? Why can't I share with Slash anymore?"

Duff: "Because I'm sharing with Slash from now on. Go ask Del to share with you or whoever."

Steven: :(

...

Obscene noises: *coming from Slash and Axl's room*

Izzy, Duff & Steven (exhausted and sleep-deprived): "Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to let Slash and Axl share rooms?! :scared: The noises! We'll never be able to un-hear this :vomit:"

...

:awesomeface:

 

 

HHaha how imaginative!!!!?

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1 hour ago, Frey said:

Not new, but I actually find it hard to read letters like this (not just from Axl, but other people's letters in general).

Stuff like

I’m reading my book and trying hard. I just took a much needed hot bath and read a little. It (the book) seems to give me new hope– I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone.

or

Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life.

is so intensly personal and private, it makes you want to look away.

It's Axl at his most vulnerable and it's also pretty fucking sad. Makes you wonder what he was feeling so alone about? And finally help him and understand him regarding what? His mental health issues? His childhood? Curious to know what book he was reading.

And that other sentence :unsure: Paints a picture of a very dysfunctional relationship right there. Erin probably leaving after they had a bad fight once again, then returning after all and holding and comforting Axl, even though he was likely to blame for making her leave in the first place. :unsure:

 

I think he probably did share a room with Izzy there, yeah.

Before they got super famous and when they first started touring, they probably had to share rooms.

Reminds me of these pics of Slash and Steven in bed, where Slash appears passed out and Steven is all over Slash. I guess they were sharing a room when these pictures were taken as well.

 

Room sharing politics must have been fun back then:

 

Izzy: "Why do I always have to share with Axl?"

Steven: "Because I'm too scared to share a room with him and you're the only one we're sure he won't kill."

...

Steven: "What? Why can't I share with Slash anymore?"

Duff: "Because I'm sharing with Slash from now on. Go ask Del to share with you or whoever."

Steven: :(

...

Obscene noises: *coming from Slash and Axl's room*

Izzy, Duff & Steven (exhausted and sleep-deprived): "Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to let Slash and Axl share rooms?! :scared: The noises! We'll never be able to un-hear this :vomit:"

...

:awesomeface:

 

 

Somehow my first part of the post got eaten by the system. So here again:

Exactly what I feel. He seems to be so lonely, sad and vulnerable, I feel like an intruder reading his letter. And still I'm kind of glad to be able to get to know this side of Axl. As always with Axl, it makes me wanna console him and make it better... :facepalm: :lol:

And yeah, I was reading the same into those comments about Erin holding him. It's exactly what it sounds like: a dysfunctional relationship in which Erin is taking the burden of an over emotional and needy man. He might have a bad consciousness but we know he will do that or something else again. :shrugs:

But the love Axl does have for her and the way he expresses it is what I find sweet.

(Never said I'm making too much sense in regards to Axl.... :shrugs:)

---

LOOOL! Frey, you're official Slaxl King! 

Even though I find it adorable that Izzaxl shared a room during their first tours.

Makes your fantasy conversation ever more plausible though :awesomeface:

Edited by Tori72
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1 hour ago, Frey said:

Not new, but I actually find it hard to read letters like this (not just from Axl, but other people's letters in general).

Stuff like

I’m reading my book and trying hard. I just took a much needed hot bath and read a little. It (the book) seems to give me new hope– I feel like maybe someone can finally help and understand me– I don’t feel so alone.

or

Thank you for coming back and also for holding me, that is one of the most important and special moments of my life.

is so intensly personal and private, it makes you want to look away.

It's Axl at his most vulnerable and it's also pretty fucking sad. Makes you wonder what he was feeling so alone about? And finally help him and understand him regarding what? His mental health issues? His childhood? Curious to know what book he was reading.

And that other sentence :unsure: Paints a picture of a very dysfunctional relationship right there. Erin probably leaving after they had a bad fight once again, then returning after all and holding and comforting Axl, even though he was likely to blame for making her leave in the first place. :unsure:

I love reading his letters to Erin!! :heart:

I feel that's the real Axl we hardly ever get to know, so blessed be Erin for putting it out for the fans to have a small glimpse of how things were.

Regarding privacy.... IMO, he's shared with the world much more private and sensitive information than this and for me, that was the hardest to read. :unsure:

About the book... Could it be that one he gave to her before one of their many breakups? I've found the girl who won the auction for that book. I need it to get it and read it too. It seems he was moved by that book.

 

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Do you think it is the book he was reading during the time of the letter?

And what does his inscription mean, I don't get it... Was it a "goodbye" present after the relationship?

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18 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Do you think it is the book he was reading during the time of the letter?

And what does his inscription mean, I don't get it... Was it a "goodbye" present after the relationship?

I don't know... Maybe yes, maybe not. It's just my guess.

Yes, seems like a goodbye present but who knows from which one of the several breakups :lol:

As far as I know, Axl kept sending presents to Erin up to mid 1993 or a little more.

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@Frey

:rofl-lol:

That was a good one :lol:

 

Slash is His real true love N' Soulmate across time N' space but He always deny it because Him N' Slash are "No Homo'' People:max:

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5 minutes ago, Frey said:

I wasn't suggesting that we shouldn't post/discuss these things (I'm the last person who would argue for censorship here and that stuff is all around the internet for anyone interested to look it up anyway), I was just expressing my own personal squeamishness at seeing all these very emotional and private things written down. Feels a bit voyeuristic to me when I read it. Or maybe that's just my inner dudebro, who gets all uncomfortable at all this feelings talk :lol:

Don't worry, I also feel very uncomfortable reading such personal stuff, so I usually tend to skip it.

Our inner dudebros can be best buddies, yo, bro, dat would be hella sick! Ya' know what I'm sayin'? Dope. #Melissaapprovezzz

:rofl-lol:

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4 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Somehow my first part of the post got eaten by the system. So here again:

Exactly what I feel. He seems to be so lonely, sad and vulnerable, I feel like an intruder reading his letter. And still I'm kind of glad to be able to get to know this side of Axl. As always with Axl, it makes me wanna console him and make it better... :facepalm: :lol:

And yeah, I was reading the same into those comments about Erin holding him. It's exactly what it sounds like: a dysfunctional relationship in which Erin is taking the burden of an over emotional and needy man. He might have a bad consciousness but we know he will do that or something else again. :shrugs:

But the love Axl does have for her and the way he expresses it is what I find sweet.

(Never said I'm making too much sense in regards to Axl.... :shrugs:)

---

LOOOL! Frey, you're official Slaxl King! 

Even though I find it adorable that Izzaxl shared a room during their first tours.

Makes your fantasy conversation ever more plausible though :awesomeface:

Sorry, I didn't see that first part of your post earlier, it really must have gotten eaten.

But yeah. @Lumikki and Sinead O' Connor will be here with the soup and blankets in a minute probably. I'm sure you can join their club lol.

And well, Erin did say once that she felt sorry for him and wanted to "make it all better". Perfect set-up for a pretty co-dependent relationship there too- one person who's very emotionally needy and another one who's a care-taker. Iirc, Erin also mentioned having already been her ill mother's caretaker as a child or something, so she probably fell right back into that pattern again with Axl.

Not sure about what you mean by "we know he will do that or something else again" though. If you're referring to domestic violence, I wouldn't be so sure. As far as we know, he hasn't done anything like that in decades now.

---

I'm afraid I also don't understand what you mean by "Makes your fantasy conversation ever more plausible though :awesomeface:". How? Enlighten me please :lol:

 

54 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

Don't worry, I also feel very uncomfortable reading such personal stuff, so I usually tend to skip it.

Our inner dudebros can be best buddies, yo, bro, dat would be hella sick! Ya' know what I'm sayin'? Dope. #Melissaapprovezzz

:rofl-lol:

Lit. It's lit. At least learn the lingo if you want to join me and Melizzzzzy :max:

 

1 hour ago, SerenityScorp said:

@Frey

:rofl-lol:

That was a good one :lol:

Slash is His real true love N' Soulmate across time N' space but He always deny it because Him N' Slash are "No Homo'' People:max:

Yes, star-crossed lovers indeed, who failed at finding true love and happiness due to their own internalized homophobia.

Truly tragic. A love story to rival Romeo and Juliet. :no:

Why Shakespeare didn't write about Saul and William instead of those boring European teenagers, I'll never understand.

 

:awesomeface:

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Frey said:

Sorry, I didn't see that first part of your post earlier, it really must have gotten eaten.

But yeah. @Lumikki and Sinead O' Connor will be here with the soup and blankets in a minute probably. I'm sure you can joint their club lol.

And well, Erin did say once that she felt sorry for him and wanted to "make it all better". Perfect set-up for a pretty co-dependent relationship there too- one person whose very emotionally needy and another one who's a care-taker. Iirc, Erin also mentioned having already been her ill mother's caretaker as a child or something, so she probably fell right back into that pattern again with Axl.

Not sure about what you mean by "we know he will do that or something else again" though. If you're referring to domestic violence, I wouldn't be so sure. As far as we know, he hasn't done anything like that in decades now.

---

I'm afraid I also don't understand what you mean by "Makes your fantasy conversation ever more plausible though :awesomeface:". How? Enlighten me please :lol:

 

Lit. It's lit. At least learn the lingo if you want to join me and Melizzzzzy :max:

 

Yes, star-crossed lovers indeed, who failed at finding true love and happiness due to their own internalized homophobia.

Truly tragic. A love story rival Romeo and Juliet. :no:

Why Shakespeare didn't write about Saul and William instead of those boring European teenagers, I'll never undertand.

 

:awesomeface:

 

 

 

True :max:

Hope this one isnt really tragic N' ended with Slash N' Axl officialy become Husband N' Husband Wife :max:

18094932_1248790421913452_2070707697379966976_n.jpg

Edited by SerenityScorp

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8 minutes ago, Frey said:

Sorry, I didn't see that first part of your post earlier, it really must have gotten eaten.

But yeah. @Lumikki and Sinead O' Connor will be here with the soup and blankets in a minute probably. I'm sure you can joint their club lol.

And well, Erin did say once that she felt sorry for him and wanted to "make it all better". Perfect set-up for a pretty co-dependent relationship there too- one person whose very emotionally needy and another one who's a care-taker. Iirc, Erin also mentioned having already been her ill mother's caretaker as a child or something, so she probably fell right back into that pattern again with Axl.

Not sure about what you mean by "we know he will do that or something else again" though. If you're referring to domestic violence, I wouldn't be so sure. As far as we know, he hasn't done anything like that in decades now.

---

I'm afraid I also don't understand what you mean by "Makes your fantasy conversation ever more plausible though :awesomeface:". How? Enlighten me please :lol:

Right :lol:

What I meant with "we know he will do that or something else again" is that Erin took him back and held him and Axl seemed to be grateful for that. It sounds so touching when reading this but we know how he treated Erin only a couple of month/years later, so it is actually kind of sad.

Aaand "Makes your fantasy conversation ever more plausible though" is my totally logical assumption that as Axl and Izzy shared a room, the conversation between Izzy and Steven (and therefore the rest of your fantasy of course) has happend. Jeez, I tend to get more confusing when I have to explain myself. :facepalm:

In short:

1. Axl is gonna treat Erin badly but sounds so cute in that letter

2. Axl and Izzy shared a room and therefore Slaxl has been proved.

Right? Right! 

giphy.gif

Edited by Tori72
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31 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Right :lol:

What I meant with "we know he will do that or something else again" is that Erin took him back and held him and Axl seemed to be grateful for that. It sounds so touching when reading this but we know how he treated Erin only a couple of month/years later, so it is actually kind of sad.

Aaand "Makes your fantasy conversation ever more plausible though" is my totally logical assumption that as Axl and Izzy shared a room, the conversation between Izzy and Steven (and therefore the rest of your fantasy of course) has happend. Jeez, I tend to get more confusing when I have to explain myself. :facepalm:

In short:

1. Axl is gonna treat Erin badly but sounds so cute in that letter

2. Axl and Izzy shared a room and therefore Slaxl has been proved.

Right? Right! 

giphy.gif

????????????

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1 hour ago, Alja said:

But if you are too much sober about spirituality and soul wandering and things, it does have some bright moments, but as a whole it`s complete fairy-tale to soothe aching soul with bullshit detector off. Sorry for spoilers. Johnatan Livingstone Seagull is good to start with, it`s pretty short. 

I want to read it to understand more things about Axl. I couldn't care less about the book or the story, lol. 

2 hours ago, Alja said:

These things were just between two people. Some of them are incredibly beattiful because how simple, civil and vulnerable they are. You never got this with any professional shooting or interview or anything.

This is partially true.

Their relationship was public and Axl has used Erin, her name, her image, her love, her physical appearance and his relationship with her and made a PRODUCT out of it. Some people call it art, which is also true, but if we're gonna get technical then please let's be honest about it.

Maybe you have forgotten that Erin Everly is the main character and inspiration of Sweet Child O'Mine, Estranged, Breakdown, the last verse of November Rain, probably This I Love and many other songs people don't even know about. Axl and Erin's relationship is depicted in the Don't Cry video, Estranged video and November Rain video. He also put her in the SCOM video and the censored It's So Easy video.

He's talked about Erin and the intimacy of the couple in numerous interviews, videos and what not.

Most of what he's shown and shared about her with his fans and the general public I consider it as beautiful as these private letters. Tell me what's more vulnerable than the lyrics to Estranged.

2 hours ago, Alja said:

I cannot see anything else than coldly calculated revenge to hurt the most vulnerable spot. I have no idea to how deepest rock bottom you must fail to do something like this to anyone (including worst enemies). Rip it up. Burn it. Lock it. Bury it... but this?!

You can only see that because you basically know nothing about it.

How in the hell does this qualify as "coldly calculated revenge"? 

It is a couple letters and some pictures, FFS!! :lol:

2 hours ago, Frey said:

I wasn't suggesting that we shouldn't post/discuss these things (I'm the last person who would argue for censorship here and that stuff is all around the internet for anyone interested to look it up anyway), I was just expressing my own personal squeamishness at seeing all these very emotional and private things written down. Feels a bit voyeuristic to me when I read it. Or maybe that's just my inner dudebro, who gets all uncomfortable at all this feelings talk :lol:

I know you weren't. I wasn't implying that either, lol.

I have never felt this way basically because voyeurism is the act of spying someone without their knowledge and these things are out in the open for everybody to see. Also I have not broke into anyone's home to obtain these things, so there's no guilt or illegal with this. Fans have purchased these items and probably TB too, so there's really nothing bad about it. 

Or maybe I am used to this since I have also read the private letters of Proust, Kafka, Freud, Virginia Woolf and other people who have had their handwritten letters even published in books by their friends and relatives :shrugs:

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3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I want to read it to understand more things about Axl. I couldn't care less about the book or the story, lol. 

This is partially true.

Their relationship was public and Axl has used Erin, her name, her image, her love, her physical appearance and his relationship with her and made a PRODUCT out of it. Some people call it art, which is also true, but if we're gonna get technical then please let's be honest about it.

Maybe you have forgotten that Erin Everly is the main character and inspiration of Sweet Child O'Mine, Estranged, Breakdown, the last verse of November Rain, probably This I Love and many other songs people don't even know about. Axl and Erin's relationship is depicted in the Don't Cry video, Estranged video and November Rain video. He also put her in the SCOM video and the censored It's So Easy video.

He's talked about Erin and the intimacy of the couple in numerous interviews, videos and what not.

Most of what he's shown and shared about her with his fans and the general public I consider it as beautiful as these private letters. Tell me what's more vulnerable than the lyrics to Estranged.

You can only see that because you basically know nothing about it.

How in the hell does this qualify as "coldly calculated revenge"? 

It is a couple letters and some pictures, FFS!! :lol:

I know you weren't. I wasn't implying that either, lol.

I have never felt this way basically because voyeurism is the act of spying someone without their knowledge and these things are out in the open for everybody to see. Also I have not broke into anyone's home to obtain these things, so there's no guilt or illegal with this. Fans have purchased these items and probably TB too, so there's really nothing bad about it. 

Or maybe I am used to this since I have also read the private letters of Proust, Kafka, Freud, Virginia Woolf and other people who have had their handwritten letters even published in books by their friends and relatives :shrugs:

You know little difference between us two? I talk about how I perceive things, not any kind of absolute truth.

I won`t argue that Estrange is strong and intimate piece of art, but still, songs I take as Axl talking about himself and his point of view. Also, if you mention people & so in art, it`s a kind of unicorns, an ideal form of something, feeling of something. It`s not real, it`s superior real, it`s art. Arguing with me what I feel more intimate - a song or a civil private letter of ex - feel free, but it`s ridiculous. If someone dug these letters after everyone involved is either dead or with permission, OK, then it`s not a violent act against letter author for me. Voyeurism for me is more about extent of intimacy you are following than actual criminal act of illegally spying someone or obtaining things. 

You know what? If you are petit size and you hate someone or just want to provoke for whatever reason, it`s quiet easy to troll quick-tempered big(ger) guy into physical attack or serious outburst. You know what? You won because you are petit and he is big strong violent woman beater. Ideally to be seen in public or with some pretty evidence. Thin ice, the thing is to maintain situation so noone gets hurt. Worse is if you lost your nerve and balance, they you can end up seriously hurt. I was not there and not all outbursts are predictable or manageable, but violence is not always only that visible, destroying power. If you think that you can hurt someone just by beating him up, your imagination is seriously weak. 

It`s on individual decision of an adult person, if it`s worthy to stay in that kind of violent environment and relationship. 

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2 minutes ago, Alja said:

You know little difference between us two? I talk about how I perceive things, not any kind of absolute truth.

I won`t argue that Estrange is strong and intimate piece of art, but still, songs I take as Axl talking about himself and his point of view. Also, if you mention people & so in art, it`s a kind of unicorns, an ideal form of something, feeling of something. It`s not real, it`s superior real, it`s art. Arguing with me what I feel more intimate - a song or a civil private letter of ex - feel free, but it`s ridiculous. If someone dug these letters after everyone involved is either dead or with permission, OK, then it`s not a violent act against letter author for me. Voyeurism for me is more about extent of intimacy you are following than actual criminal act of illegally spying someone or obtaining things. 

You know what? If you are petit size and you hate someone or just want to provoke for whatever reason, it`s quiet easy to troll quick-tempered big(ger) guy into physical attack or serious outburst. You know what? You won because you are petit and he is big strong violent woman beater. Ideally to be seen in public or with some pretty evidence. Thin ice, the thing is to maintain situation so noone gets hurt. Worse is if you lost your nerve and balance, they you can end up seriously hurt. I was not there and not all outbursts are predictable or manageable, but violence is not always only that visible, destroying power. If you think that you can hurt someone just by beating him up, your imagination is seriously weak. 

It`s on individual decision of an adult person, if it`s worthy to stay in that kind of violent environment and relationship. 

Are you seriously saying that Erin has some responsibility in being beaten by Axl? Or did I get something wrong? 

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4 minutes ago, Alja said:

You know little difference between us two? I talk about how I perceive things, not any kind of absolute truth.

Everything I talked about in my previous response is FACT. I have a source, you don't.

6 minutes ago, Alja said:

I won`t argue that Estrange is strong and intimate piece of art, but still, songs I take as Axl talking about himself and his point of view. Also, if you mention people & so in art, it`s a kind of unicorns, an ideal form of something, feeling of something. It`s not real, it`s superior real, it`s art. Arguing with me what I feel more intimate - a song or a civil private letter of ex - feel free, but it`s ridiculous

Only Axl can have a saying or a point of view in this relationship? Erin's point does not matter, right?

I see...

It's not true she doesn't have blue eyes then and that she's not the person in SCOM? 

If you say things here they became debate material so you may think it is ridiculous to argue your opinions but that's what a forum is for.

12 minutes ago, Alja said:

You know what? If you are petit size and you hate someone or just want to provoke for whatever reason, it`s quiet easy to troll quick-tempered big(ger) guy into physical attack or serious outburst. You know what? You won because you are petit and he is big strong violent woman beater. Ideally to be seen in public or with some pretty evidence. Thin ice, the thing is to maintain situation so noone gets hurt. Worse is if you lost your nerve and balance, they you can end up seriously hurt. I was not there and not all outbursts are predictable or manageable, but violence is not always only that visible, destroying power. If you think that you can hurt someone just by beating him up, your imagination is seriously weak. 

Huh? 

I guess I don't even want to know what all of this nonsense really means :facepalm:

14 minutes ago, Alja said:

It`s on individual decision of an adult person, if it`s worthy to stay in that kind of violent environment and relationship. 

What you are saying here is very ignorant. A slap in the face to the victims of domestic abuse. 

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Just now, Tori72 said:

Are you seriously saying that Erin has some responsibility in being beaten by Axl? Or did I get something wrong? 

I haven`t been there and I cannot say what happened each particular time. All I said is that I know that it`s not that difficult to troll someone into outburst from a position of someone who is smaller and weaker. It`s best done if you want to end up with someone and seriously damage his reputation. At the end, most people would judge him, not me. We all have ways how to hurt others. Some are just more sophisticated.

I know few people who have these wild berserk outbursts, even 6 years old is dangerous. The only way is to run like hell and hide until that person exhausts. Then comes vicious circle of guilty and sorrow and until someone leaves the circle or the volatile one learns to control, it will be bad.

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4 minutes ago, Alja said:

I haven`t been there and I cannot say what happened each particular time. All I said is that I know that it`s not that difficult to troll someone into outburst from a position of someone who is smaller and weaker. It`s best done if you want to end up with someone and seriously damage his reputation. At the end, most people would judge him, not me. We all have ways how to hurt others. Some are just more so

Stop it.

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14 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Everything I talked about in my previous response is FACT. I have a source, you don't.

Only Axl can have a saying or a point of view in this relationship? Erin's point does not matter, right?

I see...

It's not true she doesn't have blue eyes then and that she's not the person in SCOM? 

If you say things here they became debate material so you may think it is ridiculous to argue your opinions but that's what a forum is for.

Huh? 

I guess I don't even want to know what all of this nonsense really means :facepalm:

What you are saying here is very ignorant. A slap in the face to the victims of domestic abuse. 

Characters present in art are fictional. Even a real, living person can become a kind of fictional character after he/she is not present for longer (for example husband of widowed woman). It`s art, it`s ideal form of something. That`s why people feel it as "their" sweet child, that`s a kind of secret of successful art. Artist is a person who can collect own experience and make it something universal. The trigger is not important anymore.

People stay in weird and/or abusive relationships and you can`t do much (or, most of time, anything) with it from the outside. The only who can slay the dragon is themselves. You can be even in abusive relationship with yourself. They will tell you ridiculous reasons why they continue in it, sometimes for decades. I also know different kinds of abusive relationships around me and you know what?  Even if you try to open their eyes, you end up as the bad one. Even if you are also affected by that rotten relationship. Position of victim is nice role but you get tired of this poor persona victimizing oneself drama after some time. There are two for tango, always.

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3 minutes ago, Alja said:

Position of victim is nice one but you get tired of this poor persona drama after some time. 

Are you serious?? I really hope you are just having trouble translating what you are trying to say.

 

2 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Just checked the date... phew... for a minute there I thought we'd gone back to the 1950s. 

Get back to the kitchen sink and make your husband his dinner!! :lol::lol:

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