GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Tori72]

5 hours ago, Frey said:

 

I wasn't implying there was anything wrong with him being androgynous or girly looking (at any stage of his life), I was referencing an extensive gender studies type discussion we had in this thread about Axl some time ago. The topic of Axl being a pretty boy comes up A LOT in this thread, it's not exactly new

 

You don't say!

5 hours ago, Frey said:

What? This is not true at all imo. Axl seems to get along very well with all the women in his life nowadays for the most part (like Beta, Vanessa, Kat, Melissa, Amy and so on) and he is very affectionate towards them and talks very fondly about all of them.

He constantly talks about Beta for example and you can't get more affectionate than the time he brought her out on stage in front of thousands of people, telling them what Beta means to him, before hugging her while crying. And he's brought her out on stage and talked about her many more times since that. Or just look how affectionate Axl and Melissa are with each other. They haven't even known each other for very long, but they sure seem to get along great.

Besides, even back in the day, when he still was a way more fucked up guy than he is nowadays, he had tons of female "friends" (or at least fuck buddies / girls he was close with) and appeared to be very fond of some of them at least. Like Barbie for example (going by the lyrics of Rocket Queen and what she herself has said). Who was it that made some dumb comment about Axl having lots of female friends or not being surprised Axl has so many female friends because he likes to talk just as much as girls do? Or likes to talk about his feelings just as much as girls do? Probably Steven or Niven or someone, but yeah. Not to mention how protective he always was about his sister and stuff like that.

All in all, I definitely wouldn't say he's incapable of being friendly and affectionate towards women, especially not nowadays.

Well, the way you describe him here makes me think twice. Still I dunno. Loving his "mom" Beta is something different to me. There are a lot of guys who'll eternally love and respect their mother and not so much the other women in his life. I agree I read of Axl's women friends in the early years but always thought of them as short term friends and fuck buddies. And being friendly and affectionate is not quite what I meant. I'm quite sure he can do that. What I meant is a real friend who cares and does things for the woman because they might be important to her but not to him. Like @MillionsOfSpiders pointed out, he could reach out and speak for her status among the other women. It's only an example because most likely Sasha wouldn't care. I just made me think that Axl wouldn't care to do those kind of things to his women friends. Maybe I'm wrong there, we'll never know. 

[Frey]

37 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Well, the way you describe him here makes me think twice. Still I dunno. Loving his "mom" Beta is something different to me. There are a lot of guys who'll eternally love and respect their mother and not so much the other women in his life. I agree I read of Axl's women friends in the early years but always thought of them as short term friends and fuck buddies. And being friendly and affectionate is not quite what I meant. I'm quite sure he can do that. What I meant is a real friend who cares and does things for the woman because they might be important to her but not to him. Like @MillionsOfSpiders pointed out, he could reach out and speak for her status among the other women. It's only an example because most likely Sasha wouldn't care. I just made me think that Axl wouldn't care to do those kind of things to his women friends. Maybe I'm wrong there, we'll never know. 

I get what you mean about guys who adore their mothers, but treat other women like shit, but I don't think it really applies here because Beta isn't actually his mother and Axl only met her late in life and he wasn't raised by her or anything. So even if he likes to think of her as his mother, it's still technically a relationship/friendship between two people who are basically the same age and just met at some point in life and got along. In my eyes at least. And also vaguely creepy. I can't imagine calling any woman my age "Mom". 

About him doing things that are important to a female friend, but not to him... I don't know. It's not really the type of thing we'd really hear about usually, I guess. He's done a lot of very nice and caring things for Beta, Kat, Amy, etc. over the years (little things and also bigger things), but I'm not really sure where the difference is between that and what you are talking about. But I'll admit this might be just me failing to understand these fine distinctions women like to make

Ultimately, I think it comes down to what Doug Goldstein, Beta and Slash all have either said or at least alluded to: Axl doesn't really know how to express love and affection (or at least he didn't really know how to do so back in the day) and so he makes up for it by throwing tons of presents, money and opportunities at people he likes. Or writes songs/holds speaches about these people. "Grand gestures", Slash once called it when talking about this and I think he was spot on.

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Frey

[Tori72]

33 minutes ago, Frey said:

Ultimately, I think it comes down to what Doug Goldstein, Beta and Slash all have either said or at least alluded to: Axl doesn't really know how to express love and affection (or at least he didn't really know how to do so back in the day) and so he makes up for it by throwing tons of presents, money and opportunities at people he likes. Or writes songs/holds speaches about these people. "Grand gestures", Slash once called it when talking about this and I think he was spot on.

Totalle agree,  I think that's what it comes down to. 

[Whiskey Rose]

1 hour ago, Frey said:

Ultimately, I think it comes down to what Doug Goldstein, Beta and Slash all have either said or at least alluded to: Axl doesn't really know how to express love and affection (or at least he didn't really know how to do so back in the day) and so he makes up for it by throwing tons of presents, money and opportunities at people he likes. Or writes songs/holds speaches about these people. "Grand gestures", Slash once called it when talking about this and I think he was spot on.

 

I agree with this, a good friend of mine cannot fully express her love in a verbal, demonstrative way either...even to her own immediate family..so she shows it by feeding people..Sounds weird i know, but the more she cares for you, the more food she piles your way .. sounds like Axl is similar in the way he expresses his feelings...

[Blackstar]

12 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I wonder why she doesn't seem to be as accepted as the other GnR guys women? It's pretty obvious that at times she's very close to Axl but none of the other women are pictured with her or follow her on social media. They follow Del and his wife and the personal trainer and even Franks girlfriend, Slash's girlfriend is always talking to Franks girlfriend. Yet Sasha seems to be shunned.

Axl should sort that out if he has any kind of feelings for her!!! 

Maybe the reason is that she hasn't been around much backstage during the tour. TB, the trainer, Frank's girlfriend, Del and his wife are people Susan and Meegan see and talk with every day or at least often, but probably they don't know Sasha enough to include her in their social media friendships.

I don't think that Axl has thought about it (and neither has Sasha).

2 hours ago, Tori72 said:

2 hours ago, Frey said:

Ultimately, I think it comes down to what Doug Goldstein, Beta and Slash all have either said or at least alluded to: Axl doesn't really know how to express love and affection (or at least he didn't really know how to do so back in the day) and so he makes up for it by throwing tons of presents, money and opportunities at people he likes. Or writes songs/holds speaches about these people. "Grand gestures", Slash once called it when talking about this and I think he was spot on.

Totalle agree,  I think that's what it comes down to. 

And this, if it's really the case, doesn't have to do with whether Axl has been affectionate to women specifically, it's about him and people in general.

I remember Pamela Manning saying that Axl didn't forget about her when he became successful, but he "took care of" her. I assume that by "taking care of" she meant that he helped her financially. He probably did the same with other people from their circle in the early days, both men and women. Also, talking about Axl giving presents: Courtney Love is not a very reliable source, but she has said that Axl bought Corvettes for all the stripper girls when he made money.

I think though (based upon what we know, because of course there are far more things that we don't know) that he has shown some signs of affection. Besides what @Frey pointed out about Beta, Vanessa, Barbi in the old days etc., the "My Michelle" song story is sweet.

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

LoL 

I dont know why you people go out of your ways trying to make Axl look like a guy who is nice to women when we all know the sordid stories about that 

I have never seen Axl as one of those guys who ACTUALLY have FEMALE FRIENDS. And by female friends I mean that, FRIENDS WHO ARE WOMEN. Not fuck buddies, not lovers, not girlfriends, not wives. All the people you mentioned from the past have had sexual relationships with him at least once.

I don't know about Beta and Vanessa . I assume he hasn't touched those (but I would never put my hands on fire for this guy) because he considers them family. Kat and Melissa are women who work for him and I have no idea what he's done for them that it is so special, aside from hiring them? 

4 hours ago, Tori72 said:

What I meant is a real friend who cares and does things for the woman because they might be important to her but not to him. Like @MillionsOfSpiders pointed out, he could reach out and speak for her status among the other women. It's only an example because most likely Sasha wouldn't care. I just made me think that Axl wouldn't care to do those kind of things to his women friends. Maybe I'm wrong there, we'll never know. 

I don't believe in their friendship because they got laid (maybe they still do) and so it is nothing pure like a real friendship. But assuming nowadays they don't sleep together then there's nothing for him to "make clear" among the other women.

Not even when he was publicly out with her in 2006 did he ever talked about her or introduced her as his girlfriend or official partner. I have always found that pretty bad for her and I have been wondering ever since about her self-esteem regarding that.

How could she accept to remain in the shadows as if he was ashamed of her or something.... No one knows what she is to him and most of the time she's regarded as nothing more than a sexual partner. It's been 10 years since she was first seen around him and she was never acknowledged any status of nothing.

The whole thing is utterly strange. He's been "single" forever and it seems she has not been dating anyone for a long time, yet they seem to hang out from time to time (Sasha was visiting L.A. back in December 2016) so I wonder how in the hell any of them would ever begin a relationship with someone new if they remain in contact for so long but at the same time pretend they are not together 

[purplestargirl]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

LoL 

I dont know why you people go out of your ways trying to make Axl look like a guy who is nice to women when we all know the sordid stories about that 

I have never seen Axl as one of those guys who ACTUALLY have FEMALE FRIENDS. And by female friends I mean that, FRIENDS WHO ARE WOMEN. Not fuck buddies, not lovers, not girlfriends, not wives. All the people you mentioned from the past have had sexual relationships with him at least once.

I don't know about Beta and Vanessa . I assume he hasn't touched those (but I would never put my hands on fire for this guy) because he considers them family. Kat and Melissa are women who work for him and I have no idea what he's done for them that it is so special, aside from hiring them? 

I don't believe in their friendship because they got laid (maybe they still do) and so it is nothing pure like a real friendship. But assuming nowadays they don't sleep together then there's nothing for him to "make clear" among the other women.

Not even when he was publicly out with her in 2006 did he ever talked about her or introduced her as his girlfriend or official partner. I have always found that pretty bad for her and I have been wondering ever since about her self-esteem regarding that.

How could she accept to remain in the shadows as if he was ashamed of her or something.... No one knows what she is to him and most of the time she's regarded as nothing more than a sexual partner. It's been 10 years since she was first seen around him and she was never acknowledged any status of nothing.

The whole thing is utterly strange. He's been "single" forever and it seems she has not been dating anyone for a long time, yet they seem to hang out from time to time (Sasha was visiting L.A. back in December 2016) so I wonder how in the hell any of them would ever begin a relationship with someone new if they remain in contact for so long but at the same time pretend they are not together 

I found this little piece on the Who's Dated Who website. It looks like she's dating someone. I have no idea what her relationship to Axl is these days if that's the case.

 

Also my apologies for showing her image. *Hides*

Edited May 29, 2017 by purplestargirl

[Whiskey Rose]

21 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I have never seen Axl as one of those guys who ACTUALLY have FEMALE FRIENDS. And by female friends I mean that, FRIENDS WHO ARE WOMEN. Not fuck buddies, not lovers, not girlfriends, not wives. All the people you mentioned from the past have had sexual relationships with him at least once.

But how many grown men do you know who have actual true friends that are female? (who they don't want to screw.) I don't know of any.  

[Ratam]

2 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

But how many grown men do you know who have actual true friends that are female? (who they don't want to screw.) I don't know of any.  

This,is weird,least is gay is rare

2 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

But how many grown men do you know who have actual true friends that are female? (who they don't want to screw.) I don't know of any.  

This,is weird,least is gay is rare

[Zoot]

4 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

But how many grown men do you know who have actual true friends that are female? (who they don't want to screw.) I don't know of any.  

I don't think it's that uncommon. The majority of my friends are men and it's strictly platonic.

[Ratam]

2 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

But how many grown men do you know who have actual true friends that are female? (who they don't want to screw.) I don't know of any.  

This,is weird,least is gay is rare

[BlueJean Baby]

2 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

But how many grown men do you know who have actual true friends that are female? (who they don't want to screw.) I don't know of any.  

I am and have been friends with most of my exboyfriends after we dated. I also have male friends that I never dated. I usually get along better with men than I do women...a lot less drama. It may be unusual, but I only have a few female friends and have always been that way. ?

[Ratam]

2 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

But how many grown men do you know who have actual true friends that are female? (who they don't want to screw.) I don't know of any.  

This,is weird,least is gay is rare

[Zoot]

3 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

I am and have been friends with most of my exboyfriends after we dated. I also have male friends that I never dated. I usually get along better with men than I do women...a lot less drama. It may be unusual, but I only have a few female friends and have always been that way. ?

I'm the same. I'm friends with all of my ex-boyfriend's except for one (granted, there's only 3 of them. ) and I usually will have one close female friend and thats it. The rest are all men.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Kris_1989

[Whiskey Rose]

4 minutes ago, Ratam said:

This,is weird,least is gay is rare

Yes, if they are gay, that is a different story 

@Kris_1989 and @BlueJean Baby, I am socalled "friends" with exes and males at work, but if they are married i don't think they consider me a "friend" in the true sense of the word...but I guess everyone's experiences are different. 

 

[killuridols]

I don't believe in the "friendship" with exes. Bullshit. If you fucked them, you are not friends. Usually this so-called friendship evaporates when one of them gets a new partner.

22 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

But how many grown men do you know who have actual true friends that are female? (who they don't want to screw.) I don't know of any.  

 I know only one person.

And I didn't mean to say there are lots out there. I don't believe most men have female friends who they have never shagged or wanted to shag once in their lives 

[BlueJean Baby]

6 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said:

I'm the same. I'm friends with all of my ex-boyfriend's except for one (granted, there's only 3 of them. ) and I usually will have one close female friend and thats it. The rest are all men.

Same with me and none are gay. Also closer with male cousins than females ones. I am a girly type girl, not into guy things like fishing, camping, or things like that. I do enjoy watching sports on tv or listening to music or watching movies  with the guys though. I am not easily offended by what some girls would be when hanging around with guys. I always wear my makeup, high heels, etc., but am not into going shopping or gossiping with the girls. I have had one close female friend since high school, a few females that are more casual acquaintances.  Maybe from being closer to my dad growing up...who knows, but it works for me.

[Blackstar]

There are a couple of stories about women friends of Axl (outside the strippers etc. circle) without word about him sleeping with them, like Shelley Shaw and Colleen Combs. He had a professional relationship with them too to one extent or another, but it seems that there was a friendship.

I had posted most of these quotes in the old thread:

Colleen Combs: I met Axl when I still lived in Sacramento-I was in high school. We used to go to Los Angeles to see shows, and I worked for Tower Records in Sacramento. Axl worked at Tower Video on Sunset at that time-we’re talking ‘85, somewhere in there. When I was in grade school and junior high school, coincidentally, my local neighborhood garage band was the band that turned into Tesla. That’s Tom Zutaut, who was later involved in Guns N’ Roses. The original singer of that band moved to Los Angeles and as Tesla became Tesla, they got a new singer. I ran into him on the Strip, and he worked at Tower Video with Axl-he introduced him to me. This was before Guns N’ Roses existed. Axl and I sort of became pen pals-we used to write to each other. When I moved to L.A. in the summer of ‘85, I ran into him again, and became friends that way.

Shelley Shaw: I got a job working for the head of worldwide music at I.C.M. [International Creative Management]. I knew a lot of acts; I’d traveled, and got to meet the managers. I’d been to L.A. a lot and I had a core of friends there-somehow I met Guns N’ Roses. I went to see them at the Roxy, and went over to Geffen-I knew John Kalodner. He gave me ‘Live Like A Suicide’ [G n’ R’s 1986 E.P.]. I was like, “This isn’t really what I saw at the Roxy last night, but O.K.” Anytime I got $200 in my pocket, I bought a ticket to L.A., went out, and saw people. So we ended up signing them-I’d bring back things for my boss and he’d listen to them. It was amazing to me that nobody had Guns N’ Roses yet.
Over the years-from ‘87 to ‘91-Axl and I became really good friends. It’s really hectic for people to go through that kind of growth through the public eye and be famous...and be 25. Axl had a ‘seen it all/done it all’ reputation-but on a lot of levels, he was really naïve. So there was a lot to go through-I was the same way, so we got along really good. We were really close. I remember he said a friend of his in high school had rung him up- her little brother was going to L.A. to try and make it in music, and would he keep an eye out. That was Anna, Shannon’s sister. So he said, “Yeah-give him my numbers.” I think he got there sometime in 1990. I think it was Axl that had a picture of him on the fridge, that was clipped out of the Lafayette paper. It was Shannon deserted at the Lafayette bus station-sitting there for two or three days. There was a bus strike.

...

Shelley Shaw: In 1990, it was the holidays-I think that’s when [Axl] had been through a really quick divorce with Erin. He was sad and living at the studio-he was in a really bad way. I remember Shannon looked after him and stayed there with him. But he was like, “I’ve got to go home to Indiana to see my family on Christmas Eve.” Somehow, he got a hold of me - I still hadn’t talked to [Shannon] -"I’ve got to go, and I heard you might come in. This is what’s going on.”
I kind of took over, and then when I left, he came back. We were like ‘ships in the night’-it was really weird. When I got there, [Axl] was sleeping a lot and going out to eat-there was no recording going on. He was just living there and he had a lot to say. It was more like Axl always needed somebody - he loved to sit and friggin’ filibuster. They were doing the sessions for ‘Use Your Illusion,’ and I remember Axl was like, “My voice just isn’t there for these high bits - I’ve got to get somebody in there to help.” So he brought in Shannon to see if he could do some things. I still hadn’t met him. It was like this myth-this little ‘charge’ that had been sent from the cornfields to have Axl look after.

http://www.newgnr.com/forum/index.php?topic=35269.0

Also Bryn Bridenthal, then PR of Geffen and older than Axl: from what she has said, she shared long intimate conversations with Axl and they were close.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Blackstar
forgot the link

[Zoot]

25 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I don't believe in the "friendship" with exes. Bullshit. If you fucked them, you are not friends. Usually this so-called friendship evaporates when one of them gets a new partner.

 I know only one person.

And I didn't mean to say there are lots out there. I don't believe most men have female friends who they have never shagged or wanted to shag once in their lives 

I disagree. It takes work to get past the awkward stage but both of my ex-boyfriends are married now with children and we're still friends.

[killuridols]

Friendship is not: lovers, fuck buddies, exes, your mom, your siblings, your co-workers, your boss, acquaintances, people you met once or twice, people you went to school with and never saw again, people with whom you do not keep a close relationship or have not for a long time.

We tend to call "friends" or simplify things by giving this label to relationships that have nothing to do with real friendship.

Only when we are going through tough times we come to realize that the long list of friendships we keep in our mind gets reduced to a handful of people.

That's all I have to say about it.

[Frey]

5 hours ago, killuridols said:

LoL 

I dont know why you people go out of your ways trying to make Axl look like a guy who is nice to women when we all know the sordid stories about that 

We all know Axl has done fucked up shit, but there's nothing wrong with also pointing out the good things he's done or areas where he has made progress and improved. No point in being overly negative about this, especially nowadays, when he seems to be doing so much better in various ways.

 

5 hours ago, killuridols said:

Not even when he was publicly out with her in 2006 did he ever talked about her or introduced her as his girlfriend or official partner. I have always found that pretty bad for her and I have been wondering ever since about her self-esteem regarding that.

How could she accept to remain in the shadows as if he was ashamed of her or something.... No one knows what she is to him and most of the time she's regarded as nothing more than a sexual partner. It's been 10 years since she was first seen around him and she was never acknowledged any status of nothing.

The whole thing is utterly strange. He's been "single" forever and it seems she has not been dating anyone for a long time, yet they seem to hang out from time to time (Sasha was visiting L.A. back in December 2016) so I wonder how in the hell any of them would ever begin a relationship with someone new if they remain in contact for so long but at the same time pretend they are not together 

Why should he have introduced her then though?

I remember 2006, Axl was seen with a whole string of different women. It seemed like there was new one every other week. Sasha just seemed to be one of many back then. He never talked about or introduced Dyan O'Connor or whatever her name was either and he was seen with her multiple times as well. The only difference between Sasha and all these other chicks from 2006 is that Sasha stuck around for whatever reasons, while the others disappeared again from Axl's life.

 

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Maybe the reason is that she hasn't been around much backstage during the tour. TB, the trainer, Frank's girlfriend, Del and his wife are people Susan and Meegan see and talk with every day or at least often, but probably they don't know Sasha enough to include her in their social media friendships.

I don't think that Axl has thought about it (and neither has Sasha).

And this, if it's really the case, doesn't have to do with whether Axl has been affectionate to women specifically, it's about him and people in general.

I remember Pamela Manning saying that Axl didn't forget about her when he became successful, but he "took care of" her. I assume that by "taking care of" she meant that he helped her financially. He probably did the same with other people from their circle in the early days, both men and women. Also, talking about Axl giving presents: Courtney Love is not a very reliable source, but she has said that Axl bought Corvettes for all the stripper girls when he made money.

I think though (based upon what we know, because of course there are far more things that we don't know) that he has shown some signs of affection. Besides what @Frey pointed out about Beta, Vanessa, Barbi in the old days etc., the "My Michelle" song story is sweet.

 

I agree with this.

Also agree that Axl doesn't really seem to differentiate between men and women in this regard. If you're willing to listen to him and let him talk your ear off, he will have long deep conversations with you. If he likes you, he'll try to throw money your way in some shape or form.

 

7 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

I agree with this, a good friend of mine cannot fully express her love in a verbal, demonstrative way either...even to her own immediate family..so she shows it by feeding people..Sounds weird i know, but the more she cares for you, the more food she piles your way .. sounds like Axl is similar in the way he expresses his feelings...

I actually know a lot of people like this. Not necesssarily about the food (though that too ), but people who try to show their love and affection in alternative ways in general. It seems to be very common among people in Axl's generation and older. I guess because many of them still grew up in very repressed or "emotionally constipated" environments.

 

 

[Darkenchantress]

6 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

I'm the same. I'm friends with all of my ex-boyfriend's except for one (granted, there's only 3 of them. ) and I usually will have one close female friend and thats it. The rest are all men.

My best friend is actually a man I've fucked before  we weren't an official couple but well, we had history. He met another woman, he fell in love and even followed her to her country. The relationship ended ,she went away and we are still friends, he is always there for me more than many people I do have physically here. 

[money honey]

Can one of the aficionados here help me please? I just tried uploading my gig photos here using tinypic for the first time. After I copied the code from tiny pic into a new post and clicked Save, it just resulted in a box with a message in it saying 'Your picture has been moved or deleted'. 

Anyone know what I need to do??

[Darkenchantress]

30 minutes ago, money honey said:

Can one of the aficionados here help me please? I just tried uploading my gig photos here using tinypic for the first time. After I copied the code from tiny pic into a new post and clicked Save, it just resulted in a box with a message in it saying 'Your picture has been moved or deleted'. 

Anyone know what I need to do??

I haven't used tinypic in years so I don't know. I upload my pics using imgur and it works perfectly, maybe you could try there.

[Andy14]

33 minutes ago, money honey said:

Can one of the aficionados here help me please? I just tried uploading my gig photos here using tinypic for the first time. After I copied the code from tiny pic into a new post and clicked Save, it just resulted in a box with a message in it saying 'Your picture has been moved or deleted'. 

Anyone know what I need to do??

I usually use Photobucket, so maybe you can try it. (even though it gets on my nerves sometimes)

I hope to hear something more about your impression from the show and the guys . 

In the meanwhle: