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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

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1 minute ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Lucky ass LOL

Yes, very lucky.  Thank you for your service, @Rocketqueen76.  It's appreciated beyond words, and I'm really sorry it's keeping you from STL that weekend.  It would have been fun to meet!

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3 minutes ago, triad said:

Yes, very lucky.  Thank you for your service, @Rocketqueen76.  It's appreciated beyond words, and I'm really sorry it's keeping you from STL that weekend.  It would have been fun to meet!

@triad it would have been an absolute blast to meet and rock out!  And thank you very much for your support. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Hershey show

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4 hours ago, Frey said:

Usually, I wouldn't take anyone who talks like that seriously anyway, but I just can't figure out why he hates Axl so much. It's not like Axl stole his place in L.A. Guns and then went on to become super successfull with them.

Is he just jealous because Axl made it big and he didn't? Or still mad about the time Axl lived with his family? It's strange to me that the guy could still be so bitter about Axl "sponging off of his family for six months" about three decades later (and why didn't they just kick him out if they didn't like having him around?).

Is he actually telling the truth or did he just try to come up with the most damaging thing he could say about another man in his mind (i.e. letting yourself get fucked by other guys for money)?

For what it's worth, @killuridols says she knows of another guy who knew Axl back then who apparently made the same claims about him. I don't know the details about that one though, maybe she can tell us if they match up with what Mr. Jagosz was claiming here.

Ok. I'm here to respond what I can respond without having to expose myself too much....

First of all, even though I do think the words of Jagosz are pretty harsh and gross, I have no reason to believe he's a douchebag/asshole/piece of shit and all the others name he's been called here JUST BECAUSE he dared to talk shit about almighty Axl. Come on.... aren't we all adults here? Reacting like fangirls will not lead us to the truth. But I understand how people get nervous about this topic and some reactions look to me like what happens when you don't want to accept something about your heroes or idols that is really ugly and there's no room in your head for them to be less than perfect.

Tough news, guys... Axl was an asshole (and probably still is to some extent) when he was young and he's mistreated A LOT of people.

You ask why people still hold grudges, 30 years after?

Well, because some of those people he's damaged to hell or treated them like a piece of shit. Some cannot get over it that easily and if the media asks them about him, they're gonna say the first impression they had of him. Many of these guys did not follow Axl like fangirls and got to analyze or cared to understand why he was such a looney. People who knew Axl in real life just knew him and moved on. He doesn't represent to them the things he represents to his fans and younger people like us.

That being said, I'd like to point out that this Jagosz quote is taken out of context. It is taken from an interview that I cannot find anywhere on the net because yes, it also rings a bell to me that he is so enraged and talks so harshly about Axl but I think that's coming from somewhere else.

So to respond to your question about dates, Frey, I don't have exact dates with this thing but I can try to put some ideas together:

- Axl moved to L.A. in early 1982. I have no idea how or where he lived during that whole year but..... living with Jagosz parents might have occured sometime between late 1982 and early 1983.

- Axl replaced Jagoz in L.A. Guns during two weeks... the same two weeks Jagosz went to jail. But previous to him going to jail, Jagosz had recorded an EP with this band.

- I estimate this jail event might have happened sometime between January and March 1983.

What did my dead guy #2 say about this?

Something similar to what Jagosz said (maybe more concrete and specific) but in a pretty careful way with words like "i think he mentioned"... "I'm not 100% sure"..."I don't want to speculate or start a rumour".... because I'm sure my dead guy #2 didn't want to get in more trouble with Axl's lawyers or get sued by bullshit like this. They appear to be mainly gossips and no one really knows about it OR people were just scared to say stuff like that and get sued.

What is my opinion?

My opinion is that there are high chances that he did it. I can't tell if this happened all the time, if he made a living off it or it was more ocassional. Also, it looks to me that these events may have taken place during the first couple years after he arrived to L.A. and they did not extend longer than that.

 

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3 hours ago, Natty said:

(if I forgot somebody, please kick me with Axl's boot :nervous:)

Not sure it was a great review but I shared one. However, I don't feel like hitting you with Axl's boot at all :lol:

As for the Jagosz guy... well, sorry but it's such an outburst of hate that it doesn't make one word he says sound in any way credible. I'm not saying it's impossible he's right but this kind of statement doesn't add anything to the discussion, because it's more like a lithany of swear words than anything else. He could as well say Axl killed virgins and drank their blood.

What the truth is nobody knows. I said I don't think Axl would but I don't know. If you rememeber there's still this very weird interview with Alan Niven, where he questioned Axl's heterosexuality. Also the famous Axl-Slash relationship was without a doubt a very affectionate one at some point of their lives. I never thought of it and still don't as being sexual in the full sense of this word but certainly very emotional and affectionate also in the physical aspect (there were shows when these guys just couldn't keep their hands off the other). But as far as I'm concerned this affection or love could as well have nothing to do with sex and be totally innocent, which I find quite likely.

Another thing is the general way of conduct of rock musicians. Years after we usually learn that many musicians considered hetersexual and actually being heterosexual experimented with men, cause the times were as they were - the best example here would be Mick Jagger - all the gossips about his romantic affairs with men.

In the context of all the above, it already seems less shocking to think it would concern these guys as well but who knows? That for certain is something they will never openly admit to, so we are doomed to be lost in doubt forever ;)

 

 

Edited by Asia
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This Jagosz says "come to found out, he was a male prostitute at the time"

So, he found this out later from some else? 

He didn't notice at the very time he lived with in his house for six months? 

Just asking, not saying Axl wasn't/isn't an asshole or that he definitely didn't do it. 

Edited by MillionsOfSpiders

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I just realised that I didn't really respond to your other points so here it is...

3 hours ago, Frey said:

The dates question is also relevant to this part of your comment - "And considering the company they kept (stripper and dealers) and living hand to mouth with little to no privacy, I am mildly perplexed that more accounts such as these haven't come forward since they became famous." - I think in Axl's early days in L.A. he wasn't really living with strippers and the other guys with no privacy, he was living with Izzy and Gina at times, and various people who would let him sleep on their couch/at their house, such as Slash's family, Chris Weber and Michael Jagosz' family apparently. It would have been much easier like that to engage in this kind of thing then later on when they were living cramped inside that garage/storage space for example.

Hmm... it kinda seems like Axl lived like a nomad at times (or perhaps a cat :lol:). Now that you've mentioned that, I recall accounts from others that stated that Axl would randomly disappear, sometimes for weeks, and people would assume that he'd found another place to crash at. This behaviour even continued when they were living at the "hell house". What did he do / where did he go during this time?

Another thing that comes to mind when thinking about this subject is the story Slash tells in his book about the time he was sent to county jail for an old jaywalking charge and he later found out that Axl came up with the money for his bail while the other guys apparently had no idea that Slash was even missing (I might be remembering this wrong so please feel free to correct me). How did Axl come up with the money? (not saying that he got it via prostitution but something about that story just doesn't add up to me...)

3 hours ago, Frey said:

About Alan Niven... are you suggesting Alan Niven might know about Axl selling himself to other dudes too? I always interpreted his comments as just him being a douchebag and trying to get some (rather dumb and ignorant) digs in at Axl based on his clothing choices. But now that you put it that way, it actually makes sense on whole different level, especially the "Who is the Rocket Queen really?" part :confused:

Here is my interpretation of that part of the interview:-

When Niven said that it was originally as a response to whether misogynistic lyrics (and general shock factor) was the secret ingredient that made Gn'R more successful than other bands at the time. Niven starts of the answer by focusing on Axl alone, saying that Axl is driven on conflict and hate but "genderwise he is an equal opportunity junkyard dog". This might imply that Niven is defending Axl against accusations of misogyny and he further backs this by bringing up Sweet Child and Rocket Queen as lyrical moments showing "Axl as an angel". Then he takes a bit of a left turn and starts contemplating Axl's bisexuality, using his onstage costume and performance as supposed evidence. As you said, this could be (and probably is) Niven just being a dick but considering the fact that he also seems to be defending the sincerity of Axl's lyrics at the same time kinda leaves things up for interpretation imo.

Honestly, I only brought it up as it is one of the few instances I can recall off the top of my head where someone has outright called Axl's sexuality into question and was also closely associated with the band. For argument's sake, lets assume that this means that Niven did know about alleged prostitution, also assuming that it stopped well before Gn'R got signed, how would he have found out? Was it common knowledge around the strip? Perhaps, but like I said before common knowledge like that doesn't stay hidden for so long. So... did someone tell him? Did others in the band know?

 

W.r.t to the timeline @killuridols has proposed, perhaps the living situation with Jagosz and replacing him in the band happened at two different times. I'm pretty sure that Collector's Edition No. 1 was recorded in 1984 and that Axl did front the band briefly during October of the same year. The living situation might have happened in 1982/83. :shrugs:

 

Edited by KiraMPD
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4 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

This Jagosz says "come to found out, he was a male prostitute at the time"

So, he found this out later from some else? 

He didn't notice at the very time he lived with in his house for six months? 

Just asking, not saying Axl wasn't/isn't an asshole or that he definitely didn't do it. 

Why would he notice?

If Axl did those things I don't think he would take the "men" to Jagosz house :suspicious:

Besides, Jagosz a bit younger than Axl, I think..... He could have been pretty naive to those things happening.

Remember we are talking about people barely in their twenties, not adults that would pay attention to lots of things and "warnings" and "alerts".

Also, people like Axl, Jagosz and the rest did not care a lot about the others, what they did, where they stayed, etc... It is assumed that everybody's ok, doing their thing, being free.... Also, it was a time of no cellphones, whatsapp and shit like that. People would be way more free to do whatever they wanted without having others constantly checking on them.

:shrugs:

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54 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Ok. I'm here to respond what I can respond without having to expose myself too much....

First of all, even though I do think the words of Jagosz are pretty harsh and gross, I have no reason to believe he's a douchebag/asshole/piece of shit and all the others name he's been called here JUST BECAUSE he dared to talk shit about almighty Axl. Come on.... aren't we all adults here? Reacting like fangirls will not lead us to the truth. But I understand how people get nervous about this topic and some reactions look to me like what happens when you don't want to accept something about your heroes or idols that is really ugly and there's no room in your head for them to be less than perfect.

Tough news, guys... Axl was an asshole (and probably still is to some extent) when he was young and he's mistreated A LOT of people.

You ask why people still hold grudges, 30 years after?

Well, because some of those people he's damaged to hell or treated them like a piece of shit. Some cannot get over it that easily and if the media asks them about him, they're gonna say the first impression they had of him. Many of these guys did not follow Axl like fangirls and got to analyze or cared to understand why he was such a looney. People who knew Axl in real life just knew him and moved on. He doesn't represent to them the things he represents to his fans and younger people like us.

That being said, I'd like to point out that this Jagosz quote is taken out of context. It is taken from an interview that I cannot find anywhere on the net because yes, it also rings a bell to me that he is so enraged and talks so harshly about Axl but I think that's coming from somewhere else.

So to respond to your question about dates, Frey, I don't have exact dates with this thing but I can try to put some ideas together:

- Axl moved to L.A. in early 1982. I have no idea how or where he lived during that whole year but..... living with Jagosz parents might have occured sometime between late 1982 and early 1983.

- Axl replaced Jagoz in L.A. Guns during two weeks... the same two weeks Jagosz went to jail. But previous to him going to jail, Jagosz had recorded an EP with this band.

- I estimate this jail event might have happened sometime between January and March 1983.

What did my dead guy #2 say about this?

Something similar to what Jagosz said (maybe more concrete and specific) but in a pretty careful way with words like "i think he mentioned"... "I'm not 100% sure"..."I don't want to speculate or start a rumour".... because I'm sure my dead guy #2 didn't want to get in more trouble with Axl's lawyers or get sued by bullshit like this. They appear to be mainly gossips and no one really knows about it OR people were just scared to say stuff like that and get sued.

What is my opinion?

My opinion is that there are high chances that he did it. I can't tell if this happened all the time, if he made a living off it or it was more ocassional. Also, it looks to me that these events may have taken place during the first couple years after he arrived to L.A. and they did not extend longer than that.

 

Hi I dont know anything at all and you seem to have some inside knowledge..however I personally dont steem Axl less if he did that. It has nothing to do with what we love, his voice his songwriting his stage presence , and so on.. this cannot be damaged in my opinion. 

I am sure he had his reasons if he did it. Not our business. 

I can think of worse than that to survive. 

If Axl was an asshole when he was younger..possible..but still I love him. 

He is such a unique person even if I dont know him personally..

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2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Why would he notice?

If Axl did those things I don't think he would take the "men" to Jagosz house :suspicious:

Besides, Jagosz a bit younger than Axl, I think..... He could have been pretty naive to those things happening.

Remember we are talking about people barely in their twenties, not adults that would pay attention to lots of things and "warnings" and "alerts".

Also, people like Axl, Jagosz and the rest did not care a lot about the others, what they did, where they stayed, etc... It is assumed that everybody's ok, doing their thing, being free.... Also, it was a time of no cellphones, whatsapp and shit like that. People would be way more free to do whatever they wanted without having others constantly checking on them.

:shrugs:

Well he seemed to notice what a subhuman piece of shit heroin user he was :shrugs:

I wonder where he got his information from then. 

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3 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

@Frey I really can't remember very well, I  can't remember for sure who it was but I think it was probably the guy from LA Guns, because I remember GnR fans were hassling him over what he had said and he hit back at them. Either he posted here himself or the fans hassling him were getting his responses somewhere else and posting them here. 

I absolutely remember the exact words he used that were posted in that thread, he said "believe what you all want, the truth is Axl would open his asshole for anyone who would pay him.

Pretty harsh.

Which makes it sound like Mr. Jagosz then :tongue2:  I get the impression this forum was a wild place in the past. I mean I lurked around sometimes, but I completely missed most dramatic shit like this.

3 hours ago, Tori72 said:

About the thing @Frey and @killuridols posted here and in the NY thread. I'm pretty sure we all discussed all of that in the WT. I never knew any of this until I registered for this forum so...

So I'm not really shocked by people prostituting (is that a word?) themselves. It's their choice. If all, especially if they're so young, being addicted or desperate for other reasons, it makes me feel sorry for them.

I'm only really shocked / concerned about "selling women", selling hard drugs, them having rape charges. sex with minors and beating women.

We might have touched on this during the course of other topics, but I don't think we've ever seriously talked about Axl doing this...

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Ok. I'm here to respond what I can respond without having to expose myself too much....

First of all, even though I do think the words of Jagosz are pretty harsh and gross, I have no reason to believe he's a douchebag/asshole/piece of shit and all the others name he's been called here JUST BECAUSE he dared to talk shit about almighty Axl. Come on.... aren't we all adults here? Reacting like fangirls will not lead us to the truth. But I understand how people get nervous about this topic and some reactions look to me like what happens when you don't want to accept something about your heroes or idols that is really ugly and there's no room in your head for them to be less than perfect.

Tough news, guys... Axl was an asshole (and probably still is to some extent) when he was young and he's mistreated A LOT of people.

You ask why people still hold grudges, 30 years after?

Well, because some of those people he's damaged to hell or treated them like a piece of shit. Some cannot get over it that easily and if the media asks them about him, they're gonna say the first impression they had of him. Many of these guys did not follow Axl like fangirls and got to analyze or cared to understand why he was such a looney. People who knew Axl in real life just knew him and moved on. He doesn't represent to them the things he represents to his fans and younger people like us.

You misunderstand. I did not call the guy an asshole or a douchebag or whatever because he was saying mean things about Axl, I was referring to the kind of rhetoric he used. Sub-human for example? That's Nazi rhetoric. You don't go around calling other people sub-human. "Male-fa**ot prostitute" is pretty distasteful as well. I don't like people who talk like that because only assholes talk like that. I assume most people here feel the same way and I saw no one get offended just because he said nasty things about Axl.

But anyway, the guy mentions nothing concrete that would explain his over-the-top anger at Axl. As it is, he comes across as rather pity over comparatively harmless stuff that happened decades ago. I'm the last person to shy away from wanting to hear all the awful shit Axl has done. Call it scientific curiosity or whatever you want, but I'd actually be very interested in hearing all the 'damaging' shit you think Axl might have done to him. Sadly, he's not there anymore to rant some more about it and shed some light on Axl's early years in L.A.

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

That being said, I'd like to point out that this Jagosz quote is taken out of context. It is taken from an interview that I cannot find anywhere on the net because yes, it also rings a bell to me that he is so enraged and talks so harshly about Axl but I think that's coming from somewhere else.

The only thing I could find while googling was the quote used in the article I posted, so yes, I assume the whole interview is gone. Do you still have the original interview somewhere?

It would be interesting to see the context of that quote and what else he had to say about Axl.

3 hours ago, KiraMPD said:

I'm a little fuzzy on the details as well. From what I recall of reading Slash's autobiography and other miscellaneous biographies I've read, Axl might have been a part of L.A. Guns twice. Once apparently when L.A. Guns first formed in 1983, perhaps before or after Rapifire which was also active in 1983 (the details on this are really unclear as the timelines are subtly different depending on the source). He was also their vocalist for a few shows in October 1984 (this is a little better documented as there are recordings and pictures from this show). Now, considering the fact that Jagosz is on the Collector's Edition No. 1 EP which was apparently recorded in 1984, I would guess that the "two weeks" he's talking about is in reference to the shows in October 1984.

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

So to respond to your question about dates, Frey, I don't have exact dates with this thing but I can try to put some ideas together:

- Axl moved to L.A. in early 1982. I have no idea how or where he lived during that whole year but..... living with Jagosz parents might have occured sometime between late 1982 and early 1983.

- Axl replaced Jagoz in L.A. Guns during two weeks... the same two weeks Jagosz went to jail. But previous to him going to jail, Jagosz had recorded an EP with this band.

- I estimate this jail event might have happened sometime between January and March 1983.

Okay, thank you both for your input.

So I guess it's safe to say if any of this is true, it was happening between 1982 and 1984.

Meaning Axl was 20-22 years at the time.

:wacko:

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

What did my dead guy #2 say about this?

 

Something similar to what Jagosz said (maybe more concrete and specific) but in a pretty careful way with words like "i think he mentioned"... "I'm not 100% sure"..."I don't want to speculate or start a rumour".... because I'm sure my dead guy #2 didn't want to get in more trouble with Axl's lawyers or get sued by bullshit like this. They appear to be mainly gossips and no one really knows about it OR people were just scared to say stuff like that and get sued.

What is my opinion?

My opinion is that there are high chances that he did it. I can't tell if this happened all the time, if he made a living off it or it was more ocassional. Also, it looks to me that these events may have taken place during the first couple years after he arrived to L.A. and they did not extend longer than that.

Dead Guy #2 sounds a bit friendlier towards Axl from the way you make it sound.

Did he have an axe to grind with Axl too or was he just talking about that in more neutral sort of way? Also, "I think he mentioned..."? "He" being Axl? Or someone else? Because it would surprise me if Axl had actually told someone about doing this (except someone he was really close to, like Izzy, Duff or Slash maybe).

 

@MillionsOfSpiders and @KiraMPD I'll reply to your posts too after I actually get around to reading them. You guys post too fast :tongue2:

 

 

 

Edited by Frey
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25 minutes ago, Natty said:

Hi I dont know anything at all and you seem to have some inside knowledge..however I personally dont steem Axl less if he did that. It has nothing to do with what we love, his voice his songwriting his stage presence , and so on.. this cannot be damaged in my opinion. 

I am sure he had his reasons if he did it. Not our business. 

I can think of worse than that to survive. 

If Axl was an asshole when he was younger..possible..but still I love him. 

He is such a unique person even if I dont know him personally..

That's fine. I don't know why you are telling me this, though :question:

I dont love Axl. I appreciate him as an artist, singer, musician....etc.... I love his music, his art. But the man, I don't know that guy at all so I can't love him.

I have an slight idea of whom he might be because I've been lucky enough to talk to people who DO know him for real but it is still vicarious knowledge.

 

21 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Well he seemed to notice what a subhuman piece of shit heroin user he was :shrugs:

I wonder where he got his information from then. 

Maybe Axl did stuff to his parents that we don't know?? disrespected them, abused them?

As for heroin, he could have found some evidence lying anywhere in the room, in the trash can....

17 minutes ago, Frey said:

You misunderstand. I did not call the guy an asshole or a douchebag or whatever because he was saying mean things about Axl, I was referring to the kind of rhetoric he used. Sub-human for example? That's Nazi rhetoric. You don't go around calling other people sub-human. "Male-hooray for tolerance! prostitute" is pretty distasteful as well. I don't like people who talk like that because only assholes talk like that. I assume most people here feel the same way and I saw no one get offended just because he said nasty things about Axl.

Omg, what do you expect from guys like this? That they express themselves like academics? :lol:

Come on... they talk like that because that's the way they talk. Axl talked and talks like this too.... the other day didn't he call a security guy "fuckhead"?? Amazing vocabulaire, wow, applause :rolleyes:

17 minutes ago, Frey said:

Call it scientific curiosity or whatever you want, but I'd actually be very interested in hearing all the 'damaging' shit you think Axl might have done to him. Sadly, he's not there anymore to rant some more about it and shed some light on Axl's early years in L.A.

I don't know what exactly he did to him for him to be so spiteful but why do we have to jump on him like Axl could have never done anything really shitty to this guy?

One thing Axl used to do and that most men find really really shitty and always fight over is him screwing the women of "friends". He did it to Slash, he did it to Steven and he must have done it to a lot other people (I think one of his friends from Indiana said something along those lines too). Maybe, Axl screwed some girlfriend of Jagosz or stole something he appreciated or shit all over his bed or badmouthed him somewhere.....

Possibilities are endless and just because you wouldn't hold a grudge for 30 years doesn't mean other people do not. Some people are resentful and resented forever. Not everybody has the intelligence to process and understand anger. Axl himself was resentful towards Slash for over 2 decades.... so what the hell are we talking about???

17 minutes ago, Frey said:

Do you still have the original interview somewhere?

It would be interesting to see the context of that quote and what else he had to say about Axl.

No, I don't have it. That's what I said. I looked for it with zero results.

I want to read it too so to able to figure out something else.

17 minutes ago, Frey said:

Dead Guy #2 sounds a bit friendlier towards Axl from the way you make it sound.

Did he have an axe to grind with Axl too or was he just talking about that in more neutral sort of way? Also, "I think he mentioned..."? "He" being Axl? Or someone else? Because it would surprise me if Axl had actually told someone about doing this (except someone he was really close to, like Izzy, Duff or Slash maybe).

Lol. Dead Guy #2 was a bit bipolar :lol: sometimes he would hate Axl and others be kind or neutral..

Hmmm... I don't know. I think that with time he was able to overcome whatever little grudge he had with Axl. He was able to understand some things were not meant to be and that's it.

"I think he mentioned..." yes, that would be Axl.

Slash and Duff had not come to Axl's life yet. Izzy... who knows where he was by then. Axl was on his own.

 

Edited by killuridols

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10 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:
14 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Why would he notice?

If Axl did those things I don't think he would take the "men" to Jagosz house :suspicious:

Besides, Jagosz a bit younger than Axl, I think..... He could have been pretty naive to those things happening.

Remember we are talking about people barely in their twenties, not adults that would pay attention to lots of things and "warnings" and "alerts".

Also, people like Axl, Jagosz and the rest did not care a lot about the others, what they did, where they stayed, etc... It is assumed that everybody's ok, doing their thing, being free.... Also, it was a time of no cellphones, whatsapp and shit like that. People would be way more free to do whatever they wanted without having others constantly checking on them.

:shrugs:

Well he seemed to notice what a subhuman piece of shit heroin user he was :shrugs:

I wonder where he got his information from then. 

22 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

This Jagosz says "come to found out, he was a male prostitute at the time"

So, he found this out later from some else? 

He didn't notice at the very time he lived with in his house for six months?

That's what it sounded to me like as well, yeah.

As @killuridols said, he probably wouldn't have brought back any johns to the Jagosz household*, but on the other hand what you said about him noticing every other awful thing Axl did makes sense too.

I also am curious where he got his information from.

*I'm not an expert on gay male prostitution in 80s L.A. (lol), but I assume most of this stuff probably happened in the back alleys, bars and toilets along Santa Monica Boulevard.

 

1 hour ago, Asia said:

As for the Jagosz guy... well, sorry but it's such an outburst of hate that it doesn't make one word he says sound in any way credible. I'm not saying it's impossible he's right but this kind of statement doesn't add anything to the discussion, because it's more like a lithany of swear words than anything else. He could as well say Axl killed virgins and drank their blood.

What the truth is nobody knows. I said I don't think Axl would but I don't know. If you rememeber there's still this very weird interview with Alan Niven, where he questioned Axl's heterosexuality. Also the famous Axl-Slash relationship was without a doubt a very affectionate one at some point of their lives. I never thought of it and still don't as being sexual in the full sense of this word but certainly very emotional and affectionate also in the physical aspect (there were shows when these guys just couldn't keep their hands off the other). But as far as I'm concerned this affection or love could as well have nothing to do with sex and be totally innocent, which I find quite likely.

Another thing is the general way of conduct of rock musicians. Years after we usually learn that many musicians considered hetersexual and actually being heterosexual experimented with men, cause the times were as they were - the best example here would be Mick Jagger - all the gossips about his romantic affairs with men.

In the context of all the above, it already seems less shocking to think it would concern these guys as well but who knows? That for certain is something they will never openly admit to, so we are doomed to be lost in doubt forever ;)

I agree about the Slaxl issue.

And who knows. Especially now that they're starting to become household names again, there might be more people wanting to profit from their re-newed fame by selling some salacious stories to the media or writing some more books. The first ones have already started...

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Omg, what do you expect from guys like this? That they express themselves like academics? :lol:

Come on... they talk like that because that's the way they talk. Axl talked and talks like this too.... the other day didn't he call a security guy "fuckhead"?? Amazing vocabulaire, wow, applause :rolleyes:

No, but "fuckhead" is just a childish, silly insult and calling someone that is mostly just dumb or ridiculous, while calling someone sub-human... is what I said it is, trust me.

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Maybe Axl did stuff to his parents that we don't know?? disrespected them, abused them?

As for heroin, he could have found some evidence lying anywhere in the room, in the trash can....

...

I don't know what exactly he did to him for him to be so spiteful but why do we have to jump on him like Axl could have never done anything really shitty to this guy?

One thing Axl used to do and that most men find really really shitty and always fight over is him screwing the women of "friends". He did it to Slash, he did it to Steven and he must have done it to a lot other people (I think one of his friends from Indiana said something along those lines too). Maybe, Axl screwed some girlfriend of Jagosz or stole something he appreciated or shit all over his bed or badmouthed him somewhere.....

Good guesses, yeah.

An example of the first point would be the way Axl treated Slash's grandma.

And yeah, maybe he did screw Jagosz's girlfriend or something, who knows. Hadn't thought of that, but might explain part of the bitterness at least.

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

No, I don't have it. That's what I said. I looked for it with zero results.

I want to read it too so to able to figure out something else.

Lol. Dead Guy #2 was a bit bipolar :lol: sometimes he would hate Axl and others be kind or neutral..

Hmmm... I don't know. I think that with time he was able to overcome whatever little grudge he had with Axl. He was able to understand some things were not meant to be and that's it.

"I think he mentioned..." yes, that would be Axl.

Slash and Duff had not come to Axl's life yet. Izzy... who knows where he was by then. Axl was on his own.

What else do you want to figure out? :ph34r:

And I see. Somehow I assumed Dead Guy #2 was someone who knew Axl a bit later on. But if it was someone who was around Axl in the early 80s when Slash and Duff weren't around yet... hmm.....

 

22 minutes ago, KiraMPD said:

I just realised that I didn't really respond to your other points so here it is...

Hmm... it kinda seems like Axl lived like a nomad at times (or perhaps a cat :lol:). Now that you've mentioned that, I recall accounts from others that stated that Axl would randomly disappear, sometimes for weeks, and people would assume that he'd found another place to crash at. This behaviour even continued when they were living at the "hell house". What did he do / where did he go during this time?

Pretty cat-like indeed :lol:

But I've always wondered about this as well. I guess he could have just been staying with different people the other people didn't know about. Be they other friends, girlfriends/women or "clients". I also remember someone saying that Axl used to spend the nights in diners or restaurants sometimes, drinking coffee until sunrise.

22 minutes ago, KiraMPD said:

Here is my interpretation of that part of the interview:-

When Niven said that it was originally as a response to whether misogynistic lyrics (and general shock factor) was the secret ingredient that made Gn'R more successful than other bands at the time. Niven starts of the answer by focusing on Axl alone, saying that Axl is driven on conflict and hate but "genderwise he is an equal opportunity junkyard dog". This might imply that Niven is defending Axl against accusations of misogyny and he further backs this by bringing up Sweet Child and Rocket Queen as lyrical moments showing "Axl as an angel". Then he takes a bit of a left turn and starts contemplating Axl's bisexuality, using his onstage costume and performance as supposed evidence. As you said, this could be (and probably is) Niven just being a dick but considering the fact that he also seems to be defending the sincerity of Axl's lyrics at the same time kinda leaves things up for interpretation imo.

Honestly, I only brought it up as it is one of the few instances I can recall off the top of my head where someone has outright called Axl's sexuality into question and was also closely associated with the band. For argument's sake, lets assume that this means that Niven did know about alleged prostitution, also assuming that it stopped well before Gn'R got signed, how would he have found out? Was it common knowledge around the strip? Perhaps, but like I said before common knowledge like that doesn't stay hidden for so long. So... did someone tell him? Did others in the band know?

Yeah, I remember Niven's statements the same way you do, but the entire thing is just plain weird. Can't believe I'm saying that, but I nearly wish Niven would give some interviews about Axl.

About Niven finding out, I assume someone would have told him, since he wasn't around when these things supposedly happened.

I don't think it was common knowledge exactly, because we would probably have heard some more about this then by now, because as you stay, stuff like this doesn't usually stay hidden for so long if many people know about it.

As for the other guys in the band knowing, yes, I could see that. Someone in the other thread mentioned Duff talking about things that only the guys inside the band know, that he won't even talk about with his wife and kids. Something like this could easily be the sort of thing he would never say a word about for Axl's (and everyone else's) sake. Then you have Slash, who has mentioned having all these long late-night conversations with Axl telling him all his deep dark secrets. It's possible Axl might have told him about something like this as well. Especially since Slash isn't a complete stranger to that kind of thing either if Steven is to be believed.

And Izzy of course. Who was the only one actually around when these things most likely took place (if they took place at all). And Axl's oldest friend out of the 5 of them. If anyone would know, it would probably him most likely. And Izzy was (is?) close with Niven. So he might have told Niven at some point? Though I could see Slash drunkenly telling Niven too. Or someone outside the band. Niven seems to have been a pretty shady guy himself, he probably knew all kinds of people and had his sources.

22 minutes ago, KiraMPD said:

Another thing that comes to mind when thinking about this subject is the story Slash tells in his book about the time he was sent to county jail for an old jaywalking charge and he later found out that Axl came up with the money for his bail while the other guys apparently had no idea that Slash was even missing (I might be remembering this wrong so please feel free to correct me). How did Axl come up with the money? (not saying that he got it via prostitution but something about that story just doesn't add up to me...)

I remember that story the same way.

Interesting theory though, I've never really looked at it from that angle.

Another slightly related story I can think of is all 5 of them apparently hanging out at a gay bar/club quite frequently for the all you can eat-buffet. I remember one of them (either Duff or Steven I think) saying that the food was worth it, you just had to clench your butt cheeks together real tight :rolleyes:

Seeing at they were clearly familiar with the local hotspots for this type of thing, it probably wouldn't have been hard to find and pick up interested guys there.

 

@Blackstar Good post, but I should actually be doing other stuff than wasting my time here, so I'll have to get back to you later :lol:

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Frey said:

And Izzy of course. Who was the only one actually around when these things most likely took place (if they took place at all). And Axl's oldest friend out of the 5 of them. If anyone would know, it would probably him most likely. And Izzy was (is?) close with Niven. So he might have told Niven at some point?

My thoughts exactly. I find it unlikely that it came from Duff or Slash but Izzy has always been a lot more straight forward about shit like that. I have a few theories about the types of shenanigans Izzy and Axl might have got upto but I won't go into it now...

 

17 minutes ago, Frey said:

Another slightly related story I can think of is all 5 of them apparently hanging out at a gay bar/club quite frequently for the all you can eat-buffet. I remember one of them (either Duff or Steven I think) saying that the food was worth it, you just had to clench your butt cheeks together real tight :rolleyes:

:lol: 

Edited by KiraMPD
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53 minutes ago, Frey said:

*I'm not an expert on gay male prostitution in 80s L.A. (lol), but I assume most of this stuff probably happened in the back alleys, bars and toilets along Santa Monica Boulevard.

Now that you mention this..... Something came to my mind and that is how paranoid Axl could have been about doing that in the 80's with all the talk about gay people having AIDS, "spreading a fucking disease" and what not.

This is another reason why I think he didn't do it further 1983.

57 minutes ago, Frey said:

No, but "fuckhead" is just a childish, silly insult and calling someone that is mostly just dumb or ridiculous, while calling someone sub-human... is what I said it is, trust me.

Come on, Frey...... ok, you want real bad stuff?

Axl called people "n**** & fa*****" in a song and recorded it for eternity.

He recorded another song insulting media guys with really awful stuff like "your daddy gets more p**** than you" :facepalm:

And I could paste the long vomitive shit he typed to a lady of this forum, in the most mysoginist way that can be...... do you want me to link it?

No, you don't want me to do that. :rolleyes:

You know what my problem is with the people that get mad at this guy and dismiss what he says because he said it in that harsh way?
That they are all hypocritical fucks.

I'm not talking about you especifically but there are people who I've seen posting vulgarities, obscenities and all kind of nasty shit about different kind of people (forum members or musicians) yet they have the nerve to say this guy is not credible because he chose such words.

And.... focusing on the envelope of words, instead of the concept and information he's giving, it is for people who cannot see past the superficial side of things.

With this I'm not saying Jagosz is untouchable or that he should be trusted 100%. No, of course every person has the right to believe him or not, but when the reasons for not believing him derive from disliking his rethoric.... ok, the bar is set too low for me.

1 hour ago, Frey said:

What else do you want to figure out? :ph34r:

And I see. Somehow I assumed Dead Guy #2 was someone who knew Axl a bit later on. But if it was someone who was around Axl in the early 80s when Slash and Duff weren't around yet... hmm.....

lol, I don't know..... maybe why Jagosz hated him or why he said what he said. But I guess it is time wasted, nothing will ever come out :(

My friend is dead as well and I can't ask again or anything.... :shrugs:

 

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2 hours ago, Hejanne said:

I don't mind, I wouldn't have shared them, if I didn't wanted other people to see them :hug:And thank you for the compliment, maybe I can replace Kat in US, I can take pictures in black and white as well :P

Of course! Your black n' white pics are :drool::drool::drool:. They should definitely hire you. 

I wish they found a job for me as well, you know the personal hair brusher or goodnight kisser :smiley-confused2:

:rofl-lol:

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8 hours ago, KiraMPD said:

nother thing that comes to mind when thinking about this subject is the story Slash tells in his book about the time he was sent to county jail for an old jaywalking charge and he later found out that Axl came up with the money for his bail while the other guys apparently had no idea that Slash was even missing (I might be remembering this wrong so please feel free to correct me). How did Axl come up with the money? (not saying that he got it via prostitution but something about that story just doesn't add up to me...)

Marc Canter's account, from his book:

Axl and I went down to the West Hollywood Sheriff’s Department to bail Slash out. By the time we arrived, Slash had already been shipped off to the L.A. County jail. So we headed downtown. On the way we picked up some Tommyburgers and listened to the demos. When we arrived at the jail to post Slash’s $178 bail, one of the officers noticed the medallion in the shape of a tiny gun hanging around Axl’s neck. Evidently alarmed at the threat posed by Axl’s necklace, the officer threw him up against the wall and frisked him. Finding no additional threatening objects, he let Axl go, and we went back to my car and waited about five hours for Slash to be released.

I don't know what value $178 had in the mid 80s, but it doesn't seem to me like a large sum of money. I suppose it wasn't so difficult for Axl and Marc to do some kind of fundraising among their friends/people they knew and collect that bail money.

8 hours ago, KiraMPD said:
11 hours ago, Frey said:

About Alan Niven... are you suggesting Alan Niven might know about Axl selling himself to other dudes too? I always interpreted his comments as just him being a douchebag and trying to get some (rather dumb and ignorant) digs in at Axl based on his clothing choices. But now that you put it that way, it actually makes sense on whole different level, especially the "Who is the Rocket Queen really?" part :confused:

Here is my interpretation of that part of the interview:-

When Niven said that it was originally as a response to whether misogynistic lyrics (and general shock factor) was the secret ingredient that made Gn'R more successful than other bands at the time. Niven starts of the answer by focusing on Axl alone, saying that Axl is driven on conflict and hate but "genderwise he is an equal opportunity junkyard dog". This might imply that Niven is defending Axl against accusations of misogyny and he further backs this by bringing up Sweet Child and Rocket Queen as lyrical moments showing "Axl as an angel". Then he takes a bit of a left turn and starts contemplating Axl's bisexuality, using his onstage costume and performance as supposed evidence. As you said, this could be (and probably is) Niven just being a dick but considering the fact that he also seems to be defending the sincerity of Axl's lyrics at the same time kinda leaves things up for interpretation imo.

I think both scenarios are possible, ie. Niven talking out of his arse (either to indirectly diss Axl or to defend him) or having something more specific in mind  he'd heard from Izzy or someone else, but I'm inclined to believe it's the former.

I regards to people Axl might have talked to/shared things like that with (if these stories are true of course, which we have no proof for): Pamela Manning has said that Axl had opened to her about things and that he has secrets the public doesn't know. These "secrets" could either have to do with his family (for example Tom Zutaut's story about his stepfather) or stories like the one we're now discussing. I somehow see Axl feeling more comfortable to share this kind of secrets with a woman like Pamela than with a guy friend.

----

A note on Rocket Queen lyrics and Alan Niven, since it's brought up:

It is known that Axl played with perspectives and that, according to himself, the first part is from Barbi's POV and the second from his own.

So the "speaker" in the main part is Barbi, a female character; and the chorus is from the same perspective (it makes more sense anyway) and it's actually "here I am, (I'm) your Rocket Queen", but because it would sound weird coming from a guy's mouth (let alone the misunderstanding that it'd cause), he played with the similar sound of "and you're a Rocket Queen".

I've always found the roles in the song interesting: Barbi, the woman in the song, is the wild one, and Axl, the guy in the song, is the sweet one.

Now, if and how much Axl, as the person who wrote the lyrics, identifies with the female character he impersonates, is open to speculation... (probably Alan Niven found it odd that a guy wrote a song from the perspective of a woman).

Edited by Blackstar
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6 minutes ago, killuridols said:

So................ NUMBER ONE............... this award is given to a person who has exceeded expectations for what her goals were.
She's become a pro at: eating Axl's ass, eating Slash' ass, eating Beta's ass :smiley-confused2:, holding up sleazy banners for Axl to see and smile (including not letting GIO rip said banners off) and getting all kind of collectibles and things she didnt have. I should give her the break-through award as well but this one represents all of her achievements so far!

The PROFESSIONAL ASS-EATER OF THE YEAR AWARD goes to............................ *drums* ...................... @Andy14

30tigs8.jpg

Omgomgomgomgomg :drool::drool::drool::wub::wub:

This is just perfect!!!! And I won!!! That's the first time in my life I have won something :wow:. My treasure hunt was worth loooool. 

But how come there's no Axl on my award? :max: Who ate him? :ph34r: Not to mention my personal stalker Slash :rofl-lol:.

This was so much fun. Now I need to retain it next year. I'll be Roger Federer (:heart::wub::drool:) in ass eating :headbang:

 

Congrats to the Big Three @Lumikki, @Hejanne and @Sekh-met :headbang:as well as to @MillionsOfSpiders and @dgnr (you know, not everyone whose name starts with A is the right ass eating object, who's gonna be next? Angus? :ph34r: or me? :shock:)

I'm glad that the Vienna and Prague shows were the most successful ones. I knew what to choose. :devilshades:

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1 minute ago, Andy14 said:

But how come there's no Axl on my award? :max: Who ate him? :ph34r: Not to mention my personal stalker Slash :rofl-lol:.

what the fffffffffffff are you saying? :facepalm:

You ate SO MUCH ass that you've become blinded to it!!!!! LOOK AGAIN!!! :bitchfight:

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6 minutes ago, killuridols said:

what the fffffffffffff are you saying? :facepalm:

You ate SO MUCH ass that you've become blinded to it!!!!! LOOK AGAIN!!! :bitchfight:

Now I see him! :wow: He wasn't there before, I swear :smiley-confused2:

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

And last but not least :ph34r:......................... NUMBER FOUR................... This is an award but mostly an honorific mention because there's still some work to do.

She's something like the sweetest thing in this thread, but she's not a bimbo. She's cool, funny and laid-back. She's always trying to keep it positive and all :thumbsup:
I think she's one of the youngest here so of course, she's till got a lot to learn.
When she went to her show (not without huge effort and suffering) she got a little bit....... ummm.... distracted :rolleyes: and well...... her hormones (like I said, she's very young) played a bad trick on her and.... :nervous: damn, she ATE THE WRONG ASS!! :facepalm: (see her review of the Portugal show)
But, but, but.... (butt) I must say she was veeeeeeery close to the right one and I'm sure she's gonna get it right, next time :hahafyou:

So the ATE THE WRONG ASS BUT KEEPS TRYIN' AWARD goes to........................................... Miss @dgnr !!!!

Yowza!!!! :headbang:

 

 

omgomg just got home from a Sting concert (guy came to town and someone offered me tickets at last minute :ph34r:) and my back is killing me and my feet, I don't think I have them anymore and this award was better than 'Every Breath You Take' :drool: Thank you @killuridols! For the award and the kind words! You're better than the old one :hug: From now one I promise I'll try to eat the right ass I didn't eat Sting's ass, that's a first step I think :P 

 

1 hour ago, Andy14 said:

and @dgnr (you know, not everyone whose name starts with A is the right ass eating object, who's gonna be next? Angus? :ph34r: or me? :shock:)

Yours, obviously!! I won't touch grandpa, I have huge respect for him :max::P 

-------
Oh and... :heart::heart:

 

Hope Axl remembers his password soon, I miss all those emojis :bitchfight:

Edited by dgnr
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1 hour ago, dgnr said:

omgomg just got home from a Sting concert (guy came to town and someone offered me tickets at last minute :ph34r:) and my back is killing me and my feet, I don't think I have them anymore and this award was better than 'Every Breath You Take' :drool: Thank you @killuridols! For the award and the kind words! You're better than the old one :hug: From now one I promise I'll try to eat the right ass I didn't eat Sting's ass, that's a first step I think :P 

Sting?? 

Damn girl, você gosta muito de velhos de merda!!! Vai te procurar uns mais novos! :rofl-lol:

(kidding :ph34r::hug:

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10 hours ago, killuridols said:

Tough news, guys... Axl was an asshole (and probably still is to some extent) when he was young and he's mistreated A LOT of people.

You ask why people still hold grudges, 30 years after?

Well, because some of those people he's damaged to hell or treated them like a piece of shit. Some cannot get over it that easily and if the media asks them about him, they're gonna say the first impression they had of him. Many of these guys did not follow Axl like fangirls and got to analyze or cared to understand why he was such a looney. People who knew Axl in real life just knew him and moved on. He doesn't represent to them the things he represents to his fans and younger people like us.

 

 

Always love this Asshole tho

Edited by SerenityScorp
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