GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Tori72]

Thanks @Blackstar that was awesome information, as usual I'm out of likes at the moment...

Anyway, I wanted to ask: am I imagining it or did we discuss Axl being depressed and not able to speak in Paris once in the WT? I remember it as if he was depressed because of Stefanie and probably the WT analysed his throat reacting to that stress. I really don't remember that well but would like some CSI work whether this was the incident that made him write TIL or not. 

 

[killuridols]

6 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Anyway, I wanted to ask: am I imagining it or did we discuss Axl being depressed and not able to speak in Paris once in the WT? I remember it as if he was depressed because of Stefanie and probably the WT analysed his throat reacting to that stress. I really don't remember that well but would like some CSI work whether this was the incident that made him write TIL or not. 

 

I think we did, yeah, but I only remember @MillionsOfSpiders having brought that up.

As I said in my response to @Blackstar, I do not think TIL is written about Stephanie because the timing is odd. BUT, there is one thing we don't know and that is if the lyrics recorded and released in 2008 are the same than 90's version. If we had this info, then the scenery would change.

Also, to support my theory, I read again an interview of Axl from 1992 with Musician Magazine where he mentions wanting to thank Bono (U2) for having written such an amazing song like "One" and how he broke down in tears when he listened to it for the first time, because it reminded him of how upset he was for not being able to keep his marriage with Erin.

So it looks to me that in 1992, Axl was still suffering for the failure of his previous relationship, so much that the famous trilogy of videos are all about this topic.

[Georgina Arriaga]

59 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

So this is where the Paris story comes from and seems like Axl indeed wrote it there. The 1992 Paris show was the one with the (embarrassing) Warren Beatty rant. Word is that Stephanie had cheated on him with Warren Beatty and he was depressed. Then the next couple of shows in the UK were postponed, and the London show was on June 13 1992, so maybe he recorded it there (the 1992 London date in Chinese Whispers is wrong).

He was in Paris, however, also in August 1991 alone (probably went to meet Stephanie) while the rest of the band was in Norway for the show there (which was canceled because Axl wasn't there).

Thanks Blackstar for all the info....this part....I wish I hadn't read it....what an irresponsible thing to do for Axl's part....even as Slash and Duff were drunk and high at least they didn't skip a concert

[dgnr]

Sante D'Orazio just confirmed The Kills will be opening on Thursday. Alison is back 
 

 

[killuridols]

I remember the Paris show being on June 6th, 1992...right?

When was the London show supposed to take place? What was the excuse for having it cancelled or postponed? Anyone here remembers?

[Blackstar]

53 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yes, I only remembered the Hit Parader interview. However, there seems to be an issue with dates and quotes.

The first quote you posted says that it is from July 1993. But at Jarmo's website he has this same interview dated as from April 2005 (which I think it is just a mistake). The second quote you posted as from Raw Magazine, seems to be taken from the same Hit Parader interview.

Yes, my link in the first quote is wrong. I found the quote alone here, which had a 1993 date and then I looked in the interviews archive of the same site, found a 1993 interview with Hit Parader and copy-pasted the link without looking inside. The correct year of the Hit Parader interview where he talked about TIL is 1992 apparently (probably published in early 1993) and the link on the same site is here (I edited it on my previous post). The interview at Jarmo's is the same, but reproduced in a 2005 article.

The Raw Magazine interview is a different one though (the link I posted for this one is correct) and it's from 1993 after the tour was over. If you notice, the quotes are slightly different (he doesn't say about the "heaviest thing" etc on this one), although he says more or less the same about expressing anger or joy etc. He also talked about doing a solo album in this interview.

---

Who he wrote it for... It could be for either Erin or Stephanie (I'm still inclined towards Stephanie), even for both of them...

Edited July 18, 2017 by Blackstar

[MillionsOfSpiders]

30 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I remember the Paris show being on June 6th, 1992...right?

When was the London show supposed to take place? What was the excuse for having it cancelled or postponed? Anyone here remembers?

@Lumikki also had a very good post about  Axl being depressed in Paris, he was diagnosed by a doctor with exhaustion and ordered to rest. They postponed the show at Maine Road in Manchester as people were traveling and arriving for the show. He was sill in Paris. He did make it to the London show at Wembley a couple of days later and then squeezed in a rescheduled show for Manchester but they only played 15 songs. 

I would reply in more detail but I'm not home at the moment  

[killuridols]

15 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, my link in the first quote is wrong. I found the quote alone here, which had a 1993 date and then I looked in the interviews archive of the same site, found a 1993 interview with Hit Parader and copy-pasted the link without looking inside. The correct year of the Hit Parader interview where he talked about TIL is 1992 apparently (probably published in early 1993) and the link on the same site is here (I edited it on my previous post). The interview at Jarmo's is the same, but reproduced in a 2005 article.

The Raw Magazine interview is a different one though (the link I posted for this one is correct) and it's from 1993 after the tour was over. If you notice, the quotes are slightly different (he doesn't say about the "heaviest thing" etc on this one), although he says more or less the same about expressing anger or joy etc. He also talked about doing a solo album in this interview.

---

Who he wrote it for... It could be for either Erin or Stephanie (I'm still inclined towards Stephanie), even for both of them...

It looks to me that the Raw Magazine article is an edited reproduction of the Hit Parader interview from 1992 because the questions are the same and the answers are the same.

Just like many mags of the time, they would grab a huge interview and form a new article with pieces from here and there, then they would publish it later. This is why I read about this in 1993, but it was actually published in 1992.

 

2 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

@Lumikki also had a very good post about  Axl being depressed in Paris, he was diagnosed by a doctor with exhaustion and ordered to rest. They postponed the show at Maine Road in Manchester as people were traveling and arriving for the show. He was sill in Paris. He did make it to the London show at Wembley a couple of days later and then squeezed in a rescheduled show for Manchester but they only played 15 songs. 

I would reply in more detail but I'm not home at the moment  

Oh, thank you!!

Wow, they postponed it just when people were arriving? 

[Blackstar]

22 minutes ago, killuridols said:

It looks to me that the Raw Magazine article is an edited reproduction of the Hit Parader interview from 1992 because the questions are the same and the answers are the same.

Just like many mags of the time, they would grab a huge interview and form a new article with pieces from here and there, then they would publish it later. This is why I read about this in 1993, but it was actually published in 1992.

Yeah, probably... Some questions and answers are the same (with slightly different wording) and and in other cases the questions are more updated. For example:

Hit Parader 1992:

HP: There has been talk, however, about Slash doing a solo project. Can you ever see yourself doing an album away from Guns N' Roses?
AR: I want to do some stuff on my own, but not as a means of trying to prove my own sense of identity. You know the song My World on UYI II? I want to do a whole project like that by myself and with whoever else might want to be on it. But right now it's just me and a computer engineer. It's just raw expression-just putting ideas together. We just go in, say "what do we want to do" and get to work. We completed My World in three hours. It's something that I need to get out of my system, but it's not something I want to base my career and future on.
HP: You mention the idea of working with other musicians. If you had your choice, who would you really like to work with on a project?
AR: Trent Reznor from NIN is one, and Dave Navarro from Jane's Addiction is another guy I want to work with. I've talked to Trent about working with me on an industrial synth project, at least on one song, and I definitely want to work with Dave on something. I've always been curious what he would sound like working with Slash on something.

Raw Magazine 1993:

Duff has just released a solo album, and Gilby has recorded an album. What about you?
I want to do some stuff on my own, but I'm not trying to get an autonomy out there to establish my own sense of identity. I want to do some things like the song 'My World' on 'Use Your Illusion II'. I want to do a project like that by myself, with anyone who wants to be on it.
But it's pretty much me and a computer engineer just putting things together, raw expression. You just go in and sing about what you want to sing about. We did 'My World' in three hours. It's something I need to get out of my system, but it's not something I want to base my career and future on. Guns N' Roses is my foundation.

What musicians would you like to work with?
Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails and Dave Navarro (formerly guitarist with Jane's Addiction and now of Red Hot Chili Peppers). Those are the two people I want to work with more than anybody else. I've talked with Trent about doing the industrial synth thing, and hopefully we'll work together on a project. And I definitely want to work with Dave. I've always been curious to see what it would sound like to have him and Slash on at least one song.

--------------

Duff's album was released in 1993, so they changed the question.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, probably... Some questions and answers are the same (with slightly different wording) and and in other cases the questions are more updated. For example:

I still think the Raw Magazine article is not a new interview but just a rehash of the Hit Parader interview from 1992 and maybe some other interview from another big mag.

The paraphrases used are pretty evident (at least to me).

[Blackstar]

25 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I still think the Raw Magazine article is not a new interview but just a rehash of the Hit Parader interview from 1992 and maybe some other interview from another big mag.

The paraphrases used are pretty evident (at least to me).

Yes, seems like it.

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Either way, I think TIL is about Erin and not Stephanie IF the version he recorded in 1992 (or 1993) is still the same he kept for 'Chinese Democracy', because it doesn't make sense to me that he wrote a song with such lyrics when he was still dating Stephanie (despite the cheating and all that, they didn't break up in Paris 1992).

 

I'm thinking of it in combination with what he said recently, the "thank you for the gift of your soul" thing (supposing that the lyrics are the same). Maybe he wrote it in Paris when they had a fight/brief break-up and he was depressed. Then, when they got back together, he played it for her in a "I wrote it for you - this is how I felt" way and this is when she told him that.

(I'm not trying to "push" any theory about it being for Stephanie or insist about it, it's just a thought that occurred to me).

Edited July 18, 2017 by Blackstar

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Im sure @Lumikki made a post about the Paris drama and in it, as well as Axl having to be sedated for 36hrs by a doctor meaning he couldn't even talk properly, was a report by the media that around that time Axl had been in contact with Erin and had had her flown out to a show in Sweden. She was spotted there. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by MillionsOfSpiders

[Blackstar]

12 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Im sure @Lumikki made a post about the Paris drama and in it, as well as Axl having to be sedated for 36hrs by a doctor meaning he couldn't even talk properly, was a report by the media that around that time Axl had been in contact with Erin and had had her flown out to a show in Sweden. She was spotted there. 

Maybe it was Switzerland or somewhere else? Because they didn't play in Sweden in 1992, only in 1991 (edit: and 1993).

Edited July 18, 2017 by Blackstar

[MillionsOfSpiders]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

Maybe it was Switzerland or somewhere else? Because they didn't play in Sweden in 1992, only in 1991.

Maybe, I can't remember off the top of my head where she said, I just remember that being a part of the conversation. 

[Blackstar]

I found @Lumikki's post (thanks to @Frey's index) about Axl's depression crisis. Most of the pics are gone, but I guess it doesn't matter, as they were in German and Lumikki translated the important parts for us

 

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I'm thinking of it in combination with what he said recently, the "thank you for the gift of your soul" thing (supposing that the lyrics are the same). Maybe he wrote it in Paris when they had a fight/brief break-up and he was depressed. Then, when they got back together, he played it for her in a "I wrote it for you - this is how I felt" way and this is when she told him that.

(I'm not trying to "push" any theory about it being for Stephanie or insist about it, it's just a thought that occurred to me).

I don't know... it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me because:

1) In most of 1992 interviews where Axl talks about Stephanie, he does it in a positive way, as in looking forward to live with her and keep trying with her (off the top of my head I can mention Hit Parader and Interview Magazine).

2) Also, in those 1992 interviews he talks about the grievance for the break up of his marriage with Erin and talks in lenght about the meaning of the videos and how all those scenes and stories are linked back to his relationship with Erin. Even in the Making of Estranged (when he's already broken up with Steph) he mentions these things again.

3) He also talks about how making those videos helped him release the anger he was holding inside because of the frustration he felt with that relationship. If we follow this logic, it could be possible that TIL is yet another song he used to get rid of what was haunting him, another catharsis song about Erin and him.

4) Knowing he was so frustrated with his marriage going bad, I don't think he would write a song with those "defeated lyrics", because like I said before, it looks to me he's trying to do the right thing with Stephanie. He was fighting for that relationship, even though it looks like from an objective perspective he was doing everything wrong again.

5) The person described in those lyrics doesn't resemble Stephanie's personality to me. This part: "I just can't let it die / 'Cause her heart's just like mine / And she holds her pain inside". That's definitely Erin, not Steph.
But, again, there is the chance of these lyrics not being the same as the 1992 version or maybe he added new lyrics later...... So, it's gonna be hard to figure out without that information.

 

59 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I found @Lumikki's post (thanks to @Frey's index) about Axl's depression crisis. Most of the pics are gone, but I guess it doesn't matter, as they were in German and Lumikki translated the important parts for us

Awesome.
It is not cool to not understand German, haha, because I'd like to see what's the tone of those comments. @Lumikki translated it but maybe she had to make some paraphrasis... what Im trying to say is that what I pick from it sounds to me more like "gossipy" news than serious information. If it says Sweden, then you know something's wrong because, as you said, they didn't play in Sweden in 1992. And I don't believe Erin and him reconciled briefly... they did not... even when he tried so many other times.

 

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

Awesome.
It is not cool to not understand German, haha, because I'd like to see what's the tone of those comments. @Lumikki translated it but maybe she had to make some paraphrasis... what Im trying to say is that what I pick from it sounds to me more like "gossipy" news than serious information. If it says Sweden, then you know something's wrong because, as you said, they didn't play in Sweden in 1992. And I don't believe Erin and him reconciled briefly... they did not... even when he tried so many other times.

It looks like Lumikki's articles are from different periods (for example, one of them was speculation on who Axl was dating after he broke-up with Steph. The one about Erin and Sweden may be from 1991 (wasn't he trying to get back with her then? - but probably it's just gossip, as you say), it doesn't seem to have a connection with the first one about Axl's depression in Paris.

[killuridols]

4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It looks like Lumikki's articles are from different periods (for example, one of them was speculation on who Axl was dating after he broke-up with Steph. The one about Erin and Sweden may be from 1991 (wasn't he trying to get back with her then? - but probably it's just gossip, as you say), it doesn't seem to have a connection with the first one about Axl's depression in Paris.

Yes. It would be nice to know the date of publication of those articles.

No, I think the Sweden thing is from 1992. In 1991 he was "fine" with Stephanie, relationship had just started.

 

[Tori72]

You guys are awesome, @Blackstar and @killuridols, this is just the CSI work I was dreaming about. It was exactly Lumikkis article I remembered, now that I reread it I know. I also remember reading those German articles and they were VERY gossipy.

So anyway, as we'll never know how those 1993 lyrics of TIL were, we don't know if it was initially about Erin or Steph. Reading your posts I tend to think it's about Erin.

I remember being really sorry for Axl being so depressed that he had to be sedated for such a long time. He probably shouldn't have toured the UYI tour like this. He seemed to become more and more fucked up and depressed during that time. 

[killuridols]

haha @Tori72, good to know!

Yes, we had the same kind of magazines here. Even that Bravo (in Spanish version) was pretty popular and I used to buy it. So, trusting my memory, I think most of them articles were published between 1992 and 1994. After that, it was so hard to have mags talking about any GN'R at all!!

About Axl's depression... I don't remember reading about anything like that back then (maybe the promoters didn't want the public knowing about this for fear of ruining the tour) but in all those historic interviews he gave to important magz he was always asked about the touring and he always said it was a hard thing to do, especially because he was going under psychological treatment.

If he had not toured at all, then he wouldn't be (and the band wouldn't be) who he is now. That was the right moment and right time. There was no room for GN'R past 1992, with Nirvana and all the other grunge bands taking over. So, like any other person who can't skip work because they are depressed or have problems at home, I think it was more than benefitial for him to do it all back then, otherwise he wouldn't be enjoying the results of his efforts nowdays.

The unproductive Axl he became post 1993 wouldn't have earned him any dollars, fame and popularity as to make it another 30 years without producing relevant music

Edited July 18, 2017 by killuridols

[purplestargirl]

9 hours ago, Ratam said:

If wikipedia said........... ?

Whoever writes those articles usually cites information like that. *Shrug*

[double talkin jive mfkr]

i know this may seem a little intrusive to ask but has Axl pounded Melissa ? Think they were getting quite close in some instances no? 

[Ratam]

15 minutes ago, purplestargirl said:

Whoever writes those articles usually cites information like that. *Shrug*

Absolutelly, i not remember what year was, but put Axl  as dead ,whatever  ?

[killuridols]

37 minutes ago, purplestargirl said:

Whoever writes those articles usually cites information like that. *Shrug*

Wikipedia has plenty of errors and bias. I wouldn't trust it too much.

[purplestargirl]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Wikipedia has plenty of errors and bias. I wouldn't trust it too much.

 Wikipedia is not allowed to be used as a source when you're writing essays in college because of that reason.

1 hour ago, Ratam said:

Absolutelly, i not remember what year was, but put Axl  as dead ,whatever  ?

I thought that was Twitter that started the rumor that Axl was dead. His response back was funny. I think that was back in 2014.

Wikipedia can also be edited and changed by anyone. Someone probably did not look into Axl's death rumor thoroughly and decided he had indeed passed away when he really didn't.