GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Maybe Axl wants to go and just live his life in his Malibu mansion? 

What can anyone but Angus Young do about that? 

[killuridols]

8 hours ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

I don't know all of you, but sound like Myles and Slash will do something together.

The correct translation of that is "Myles performs with Slash", which is just the mere description of what Myles usually does with Slash but doesnt have any extra meaning.

9 hours ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Yes this! I had the exact same thought about CD. Nothing about it sounds too off the beaten path of what Guns was already doing. So it really is hard to discern where the truth lies.

If CD sounded similar to the Illusions then there would be a lot more fans supporting it and liking it but thats not the case.

Besides, ten years or more had passed between what Slash said and the release of CD. Plenty of time for Axl to rethink what the final sound of CD would be like. 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

CD sounds nothing like Guns N' Roses.

The end. 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

47 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

CD sounds nothing like Guns N' Roses.

The end. 

I'm listening to CD right now, absolutely jubilant because FINALLY Catcher in the Rye and Riad have clicked for me. Those were the two tracks that kept eluding me. So I'm ecstatic.  

But I agree.  CD doesn't sound like Guns, not even after several listens.  That being said, you can tell CD has Guns N' Roses DNA.  You can really hear it on Riad (I bloody love this song), that funky riff bulldozes through all those layers.  And there's Axl's growl on "You aaaaaaagravate me."  LOVE.  He is 100% in My Michelle mode on this track vocally.  I wish they'd play this live instead of one of the covers.  Imagine how much awesomeness would be revealed if they lifted all the layers and just played the fuck out of the GnR sound.

Edited August 1, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[killuridols]

Yeah, the layers and all those shitty weird sounds ruin most of the songs, that's why I liked the demos or early versions better.

And this is why I stuck around with Axl during the lonely years, because the material that leaked in early 2000's was promising. I loved "The Blues" and TWAT. But what ended up on the final released version was modified with added layers of just noise.

I agree with @MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle that some of them have the GN'R DNA like Street Of Dreams, Madagascar or Better but it lacks that element of danger and suspense that Slash guitars have on songs like Rocket Queen or My Michelle. This is what is present in Velvet Revolver's Slither and makes it sound much more like a GN'R song.

But well, Axl didn't want that sound anymore so that's it.... I can only dream of what CD sounded like if Duff and Slash would have been part of it 

Edited August 1, 2017 by killuridols

[KiraMPD]

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

But well, Axl didn't want that sound anymore so that's it.... I can only dream of what CD would sound like if Duff and Slash would have been part of it 

Hmm... I don't think it was the matter of Axl not wanting that sound anymore. For example, the solo for the Blues almost mirrors Slash's solos in the past (w.r.t to the overall structure). Besides which, Slash and Duff quit and according to both of them Axl tried to reach out to Slash for a long time (between 1996-1998, I think) but Slash didn't want anything to do with it. I'm not saying Slash or Duff were in the wrong, but that is what happened. Slash and Duff didn't want to be a part of it initially just as much as Axl didn't want them to be a part of it later on.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

@killuridols  CD totally lacks danger and edge.  It's dark, for sure.  Moody.  But in no way kickass or bolshy like AFD and many, many songs on both UYIs.  Someone here said it's full of Axl's disappointment and that's really apparent. Some songs reveal that disappointment so profoundly I feel like crying when listening to parts, like the guitar solo in TWAT for instance.  I'm really impressed with any fan that stuck by Axl (I like what you call his lonely years).  That must have been hard.  To hear the initial promise of CD and wait for so long only for that promise not to be delivered, and the whole listening experience spoiled.  

Edited August 1, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Why be impressed with Axl fans who stuck with Axl? 

How is it a hardship? 

Awwwww poor little Axl fans, he must have ruined their lives ?

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

Not that much of a hardship, no.  I just meant hard as a devoted fan when you're really excited by the prospect of great music from your musical idol and then he doesn't deliver. Life ruined?  No.  It's just disappointing.  Human emotions. Ya know? 

[KiraMPD]

40 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

@killuridols  CD totally lacks danger and edge.  It's dark, for sure.  Moody.  But in no way kickass or bolshy like AFD and many, many songs on both UYIs.  Someone here said it's full of Axl's disappointment and that's really apparent. Some songs reveal that disappointment so profoundly I feel like crying when listening to parts, like the guitar solo in TWAT for instance.  I'm really impressed with any fan that stuck by Axl (I like what you call his lonely years).  That must have been hard.  To hear the initial promise of CD and wait for so long only for that promise not to be delivered, and the whole listening experience spoiled.  

W.r.t danger and edge, I honestly don't know if kick-ass hard rock riffs would have helped with that. For me the major factor that changed was Axl's evolution as a lyricist. The songs he penned back in his 20's were in your face, they were blunt and didn't leave anything to mystery, and the music reflected that perfectly. In CD, Axl seems a lot more careful with his lyrics and thus the music is a lot more atmospheric. I guess songs like TWAT could have benefited form a more dirty hard rock riff but at the same time the tone and message of the song would have been totally different. IDK, I personally like that CD is so moody and contemplative (though I still like the demo versions more).

 

24 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Why be impressed with Axl fans who stuck with Axl? 

How is it a hardship? 

Awwwww poor little Axl fans, he must have ruined their lives ?

LOL, agreed. That time period was certainly no hardship for me (can't speak for other fans). In fact, I kinda miss it? The mystery, the speculations, the leaks and promise of new music... 

Edited August 1, 2017 by KiraMPD
I can't type for shit...

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

2 minutes ago, KiraMPD said:

W.r.t danger and edge, I honestly don't know if kick-ass hard rock riffs would have helped with that. For me the major factor that changed was Axl's evolution as a lyricist. The songs he penned back in his 20's were in your face, they were blunt and didn't leave anything to mystery, and the music reflected that perfectly. In CD, Axl seems a lot more careful with his lyrics and thus the music is a lot more atmospheric. I guess songs lick TWAT could have benefited form a more dirty hard rock riff but at the same time the tone and message of the song would have been totally different. IDK, I personally like that CD is so moody and contemplative (though I still like the demo versions more).

 

LOL, agreed. That time period was certainly no hardship for me (can't speak for other fans). In fact, I kinda miss it? The mystery, the speculations, the leaks and promise of new music... 

Re: CD lacking danger: it was just an observation.  I wasn't suggesting it ought to have had an injection of danger.  I think it would have benefitted from a simpler approach and stripping back some of the production layers but in terms of the overall album tone, I wouldn't change that.  That's why I mentioned Axl's disappointment.  It's reflected in the tone as it should be.  I also like that it's dark and moody - that's right up my street, which is why I love CD so much.  Axl has written some pretty blunt lyrics on CD though; some of my favourite lyrics of his are on this album.  

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Needs more swear words, maybe a few more fucks and fuckheads. 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

 @MillionsOfSpidersOutta likes but YES to this.   I got all excited hearing his trademark growl on Riad.  I miss that. ^^

Edited August 1, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, KiraMPD said:

Hmm... I don't think it was the matter of Axl not wanting that sound anymore. For example, the solo for the Blues almost mirrors Slash's solos in the past (w.r.t to the overall structure).

That's what Axl said so why should I contradict him? He said the sound of the old band was dated. He wanted to evolve from that.

From minute 12:35 until 14:38 he says it:

 

54 minutes ago, KiraMPD said:

Besides which, Slash and Duff quit and according to both of them Axl tried to reach out to Slash for a long time (between 1996-1998, I think) but Slash didn't want anything to do with it. I'm not saying Slash or Duff were in the wrong, but that is what happened. Slash and Duff didn't want to be a part of it initially just as much as Axl didn't want them to be a part of it later on

Hmmm.... what? Slash and Duff were always in the band until they left. They did work on a follow up to the UYI albums, they did write stuff but they couldn't agree with Axl on what would be the new GN'R album. Slash left in October 1996 and Duff in August 1997.

Slash says in his bio that the reasons why he left are not based on artistic or creative differences but because the band was not a team anymore. He found it disrespectful what Axl put them through with the lateness to shows night after night, the whole "owning the name" thing and that they were reduced to hired hands and also, losing Izzy and Steven since they were integral part of the sound of the band. For him, there was no chemistry among them anymore.

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

@killuridols  CD totally lacks danger and edge.  It's dark, for sure.  Moody.  But in no way kickass or bolshy like AFD and many, many songs on both UYIs.  Someone here said it's full of Axl's disappointment and that's really apparent. Some songs reveal that disappointment so profoundly I feel like crying when listening to parts, like the guitar solo in TWAT for instance.  I'm really impressed with any fan that stuck by Axl (I like what you call his lonely years).  That must have been hard.  To hear the initial promise of CD and wait for so long only for that promise not to be delivered, and the whole listening experience spoiled.  

I'm not sure I have a song from CD that hits me emotionally to that level. Maybe SOD and Madagascar give me a little bit of it but I can't connect too much to them. Don't know why. I kind of do not understand the lyrics that much.

As for the years waiting...hmm... it was hard but in my mind I had started to detach from it after 2006. I really didn't think he would ever release it so I didn't wait anymore. To be honest, I didn't buy CD right away when it was finally out. I had lost all interest on it and I didn't care. Later on, I came back and bought it but I found it boring. I didn't even have the curiosity to find out what were the final versions of the songs I had liked so much. It took me some more years to go back to it and listen to it properly and with more conscience.

59 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Why be impressed with Axl fans who stuck with Axl? 

How is it a hardship? 

Awwwww poor little Axl fans, he must have ruined their lives ?

It didn't ruin my life. I just moved on and listened to other things. I became fan of many other artists. I discovered amazing different music.

 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

28 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

 @MillionsOfSpidersOutta likes but YES to this.   I got all excited hearing his trademark growl on Riad.  I miss that. ^^

Well, AC/DC albums don't have growling or swearing, so it's not coming back any time soon             

[KiraMPD]

30 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Hmmm.... what? Slash and Duff were always in the band until they left. They did work on a follow up to the UYI albums, they did write stuff but they couldn't agree with Axl on what would be the new GN'R album. Slash left in October 1996 and Duff in August 1997.

Slash says in his bio that the reasons why he left are not based on artistic or creative differences but because the band was not a team anymore. He found it disrespectful what Axl put them through with the lateness to shows night after night, the whole "owning the name" thing and that they were reduced to hired hands and also, losing Izzy and Steven since they were integral part of the sound of the band. For him, there was no chemistry among them anymore.

I think we are misinterpreting each other. I was responding to a part of your post that seemed to imply to me that you think Axl deliberately did not want Slash and Duff to be a part of CD, or excluded them in some way. Which I do not think is the case as they left off of their own will. I did not mean to imply that artistic differences were the sole reason for the split, because as you stated there were a plethora of other contributing factors.

 

34 minutes ago, killuridols said:

That's what Axl said so why should I contradict him? He said the sound of the old band was dated. He wanted to evolve from that.

From minute 12:35 until 14:38 he says it:

Again, I was responding w.r.t what I hear on CD of the finished songs. The core structure of some of the songs is very reminiscent of songs on AFD and UYI (breakdowns, timing of the solos, melding of guitar and vocals on outros, etc) so imo it wasn't a 180° to the previous works from Gn'R. Yes, there was a significant change in tone (aided by different guitar styles, synths and orchestra) so that could have been the 'modern' element he was going for but it wasn't a totally different approach to song structure.

Perhaps Axl wanted to 'evolve' past their previous works but I don't think it was as far a departure as some, including Axl, make it out to be.

[Georgina Arriaga]

Hello, an article with a very unpopular opinion:

http://www.westword.com/music/guns-n-roses-is-back-but-they-never-really-went-away-9318922

Quote

 

Now we all have the opportunity to see the bulk of the classic lineup. I have my ticket, and I’m sure plenty of people reading this will be going. And popular opinion will reign supreme. This is the real Guns N’ Roses (or at least it would be if Stradlin were there). Finally, the real band is back.

And that’s fair. All reports from the current tour are positive. The band is firing on all cylinders night after night, and the musicians might well enter the studio together.

But the lineup that existed in the mid-2000s wasn’t the shoddy excuse for a band that many would have you believe. Bumblefoot and DJ Ashba are no slouches, either. Strip away the prejudices, and Rose consistently assembled a solid group of musicians, capable of playing the classics well while challenging him artistically.

I’m as happy as anyone that Slash and Duff are back. But Buckethead, Stinson et al. deserve their props.

 

I'm guilty of this prejudice

[James Bond]

Did... did I just read that DJ Ashba is no slouch?

(Yes, I entered the women's thread to comment on that.)

[Frey]

5 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

CD sounds nothing like Guns N' Roses.

The end. 

CD totally sounds like Guns N' Roses in parts (e.g. SoD) 

The end. 

_______

Also, danger? There will never be any of that again in their music, they're all old farts now, there's nothing dangerous about them and their music reflects that. CD (ballads with layers over layers) and VR (boring, generic and uninspired 2000s rock) already were the opposite of dangerous and it's gonna be even worse now should they in fact manage to get their asses into a studio.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Frey

[MillionsOfSpiders]

43 minutes ago, Frey said:

CD totally sounds like Guns N' Roses in parts (e.g. SoD) 

The end. 

_______

Also, danger? There will never be any of that again in their music, they're all old farts now, there's nothing dangerous about them and their music reflects that. CD (ballads with layers over layers) and VR (boring, generic and uninspired 2000s rock) already were the opposite of dangerous and it's gonna be even worse now should they in fact manage to get their asses into studio.

It sounds like a pop album to me, not anything like GnR. I have to admit though, I have listened to Prostitute quite a lot recently, I wish it wasn't so busy with sound effects, but I like it  

I actually believe in "evolving" the sound of a band, making albums that don't all sound the same, I like it when a band can do that. 

I may have been disappointed as a fan if they had stayed together but kept on churning out wannabe Appetite albums, in fact I know I would have been. 

[Frey]

21 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It sounds like a pop album to me, not anything like GnR. I have to admit though, I have listened to Prostitute quite a lot recently, I wish it wasn't so busy with sound effects, but I like it  

I actually believe in "evolving" the sound of a band, making albums that don't all sound the same, I like it when a band can do that. 

I may have been disappointed as a fan if they had stayed together but kept on churning out wannabe Appetite albums, in fact I know I would have been. 

I'm glad you appreciate Prostitute, since it is probably my favorite NuGNR/Axl solo (whatever you wanna call it) song Or maybe my favorite together with Madagascar, Oh My God  and Streed of Dreams.

I think Appetite couldn't have been recreated anyway. That album was the result of the life they were actually living at the time, if they'd tried to go for this kind of thing again as pampered millionaires it wouldn't have been authentic. And it would be even worse nowadays- apart from still being filthy rich, they're also not wild kids anymore, they're old guys and have calmed down a lot. So I've never really understood why so many people long for another Appetite, because I don't think there can ever be another one. That was a one time thing, now better on to different things they can still do convincingly, imo.

 

 

[Rocketqueen76]

7 hours ago, killuridols said:

If CD sounded similar to the Illusions then there would be a lot more fans supporting it and liking it but thats not the case.

Besides, ten years or more had passed between what Slash said and the release of CD. Plenty of time for Axl to rethink what the final sound of CD would be like. 

Even if CD completely sounded like UYI I think it would still lose support because the sound wouldn't be fresh. I can almost guarantee that if AFD5 had recorded CD the masses would have gone crazy for it.

[killuridols]

3 hours ago, KiraMPD said:

I think we are misinterpreting each other. I was responding to a part of your post that seemed to imply to me that you think Axl deliberately did not want Slash and Duff to be a part of CD, or excluded them in some way. Which I do not think is the case as they left off of their own will. I did not mean to imply that artistic differences were the sole reason for the split, because as you stated there were a plethora of other contributing factors.

Yeah.

No, I didn't mean to say that. I meant to say Axl didn't like the type of songs they were writing for the new album. He wanted a different sound. Like he says on the interview "not so Aerosmith/ACDC kind of style". Apparently, that's what the material Duff & Slash wrote sounded like. Slash says he was willing to go industrial or whatever style Axl wanted but he didnt like the treatment he was receiving from Axl and how they were being reduced to merely "hired hands". So, maybe the reasons for their departure are a mixture of not seeing eye-to-eye with Axl regarding the music and other disagreements regarding the business side of the band, bringing other people to write with, etc.

3 hours ago, KiraMPD said:

The core structure of some of the songs is very reminiscent of songs on AFD and UYI (breakdowns, timing of the solos, melding of guitar and vocals on outros, etc) so imo it wasn't a 180° to the previous works from Gn'R. Yes, there was a significant change in tone (aided by different guitar styles, synths and orchestra) so that could have been the 'modern' element he was going for but it wasn't a totally different approach to song structure.

I totally disagree with the bolded. I don't find any AFD on Chinese Democracy at all. UYI, maybe, but just on a couple songs.

3 hours ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

I'm guilty of this prejudice

Buckethead may be a guitar god but he does nothing for me, so I was glad when he was gone. To me he was a fuckin' freak that reminded me too much of Michael Jackson. I don't care if he plays perfect.

Stinson is mediocre and Ashba is LOL Only one I can save is Robin Finck. That one was a gem.

All in all, put together they did play nice shows and were professionals well assembled but they weren't Guns N' Roses. If Axl had gone solo with this band, he would have been much more respected and praised for his band than what he got when presenting these lineups as the new Guns N' Roses generation.

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It sounds like a pop album to me, not anything like GnR. I have to admit though, I have listened to Prostitute quite a lot recently, I wish it wasn't so busy with sound effects, but I like it  

It does sound like pop album to me too. Prostitute I only like the beginning, then I have to turn it off when the solo comes. That's something that happens to me oftenly when playing CD. I can't finish songs, they are all too long for my taste. I need to skip to the next one as soon as vocals are done.

14 minutes ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

Even if CD completely sounded like UYI I think it would still lose support because the sound wouldn't be fresh. I can almost guarantee that if AFD5 had recorded CD the masses would have gone crazy for it.

CD wouldn't be CD if had been recorded by AFD5.

Izzy and Steven would have never wanted to record music like that.

 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

50 minutes ago, Frey said:

I'm glad you appreciate Prostitute, since it is probably my favorite NuGNR/Axl solo (whatever you wanna call it) song Or maybe my favorite together with Madagascar, Oh My God  and Streed of Dreams.

I think Appetite couldn't have been recreated anyway. That album was the result of the life they were actually living at the time, if they'd tried to go for this kind of thing again as pampered millionaires it wouldn't have been authentic. And it would be even worse nowadays- apart from still being filthy rich, they're also not wild kids anymore, they're old guys and have calmed down a lot. So I've never really understood why so many people long for another Appetite, because I don't think there can ever be another one. That was a one time thing, now better on to different things they can still do convincingly, imo.

 

 

I don't want them to re-create Appetite per se, I just want them to create music that stays true to their musical roots, which is blues based hard rock with the bass turned way the fuck up (there's no bass on CD.  That is one of THE defining sounds of GnR and it's buried).  And that's not a lifestyle thing; they don't have to be wild boys living in a hovel in Gardner St to continue making kickass music - they just have to make the kind of music they themselves love.  Sure they can evolve and update and whatnot, but IF they put out new music, I wouldn't like them to lose sight of their original passion for blues/rock genre.  I think Axl lost touch with his musical roots on CD, partially because he obviously had other artistic things he wanted to work through, but also because he lacked Slash and Duff's input and was working with hired hands who weren't all on the same page musically/artistically.  Anyway, i'm still holding out for hope they'll put out new music, not AFD 2, but something we'll still recognise as Guns.

Edit: And yeah, I totally regard CD as Axl solo project.  I don't even think of it as Guns. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[Rocketqueen76]

10 minutes ago, killuridols said:

CD wouldn't be CD if had been recorded by AFD5.

Izzy and Steven would have never wanted to record music like that.

Semantics my dear @killuridols. My point was that even if the sound slightly changed it still would have been received favorably had it been done by the original line-up