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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2


alfierose

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3 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Did you buy it? 

I went shopping yesterday with the kids and saw some GnR kids AFD t shirts, has the cross on the front and on the back all the songs of the album written in the red GnFnRs writing. They got one each :lol:

How ironic GNR for kids "the band most dangerous of world", crazy ???

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Ok. Let's go back to the important... :ph34r:

This morning I found this on my email.... have you read it yet?

An Iranian girl and her rockstars - The Huffington Post

Here's the excerpt that made me curious and laugh:

"Recently I had a fling with one legendary rock star and he too, despite being nice and so kind-hearted emerged as someone who never managed normal daily tasks. He was like a toddler having had his ‘people’ do everything for him since his early ‘20s, and never knew how to take initiative, how to make decisions, or how to be in social situations, even down to being able to communicate clearly and concisely with me. He was all muddled, sober and clean but mentally, like a kid who needed to be nannied,. He always wanted me to tell him what to do, where to meet, how to spend time.

When I had first been intimate with him the room was all liquid and wobbly. Images of his past famous girlfriends flashing in my head. I looked like a potato. A dumpy council state potato. He was so lioneque, so naturally sensual that I felt tiny. But also…. I did not want to feel a thing; like when you are at the dentist. Because if I let myself feel, the sutures of the heart would gently loosen, commencing a bloody lovely adoration that would metamorphose into a volcano of love which would become the death of me because I could never be with him. Yes he was cheating on his partner but he like me did not subscribe to the manufactured unnatural concept that pure romantic love should be affiliated to monogamy. He adored her and I adored him for that and I just wished that she like me, would love him so much that she would want him to have different shades and varieties of love and sex."

And she closes her feminist? piece with this:

"Most if not all of these rock legends have vanilla girlfriends/wives at home: docile, compliant, unquestioning, Bambi eyed and simple, like a favourite pair of slippers. No rock star wants to have a political journalist girlfriend who has fled a war and been through a revolution in Iran and interviews the KKK, despite her education, her devotion to him and their life. Because they get tired of being that persona and just want simplicity and vanilla to come home to. And I am the same: I want a devoted sweet husband who is there for me, and for whom I don’t have to put on my ‘Roxana Persona’; someone I can feel secure enough to be the boring, geeky housewifey girl that I am, someone with whom I feel comfortable enough to be the little girl me, the damaged me, the no make up, the pyjamas wearing, chubby, saggy, TV loving me and he would still love me; not the rock n roll persona that everyone thinks that I am. 

But most of all it has made me realise that in rock n roll women are demonized for their sexuality while the men are idolised for it."

Roxana Shirazi

------

I must say I am having a hard time with understanding this woman... First of all, I had no clue who she was until some of you started talking about her here and I could grasp a bit of who she is. 

Lately, I see her name everywhere associated with Guns N' Roses members. Looks like she's having a book coming out and she's wildly promoting it or I don't know..... the thing is, after reading this article, it is the first time that I realize this woman is? or is trying to? to add a feminist perspective to her writings and that caught my attention :suspicious:

I wanna ask you girls, who have known her for longer than me, has this woman always have this feminist approach? 

When you people posted stuff from her and pictures, she didn't strike me as the typical feminist woman. All the contrary, she looked to me like one of those who would defend patriarchy over anything else. But now she writes these things about rockers from a place of criticism that doesn't sound all natural to me, as I see or feel she's participated of the rock n' roll patriarchy machine before and it looks like she wants to get out now?

Is she jumping on the feminist bandwagon to sell more books? To make herself look better, up to date with the current ideologies and fit what's trending in readings? :suspicious:

Im asking because I don't want to judge her without knowing her a bit more but as a feminist myself and having studied the feminist theory, there's something about her that doesn't feel right. I know the feminist movement has a lot of ramifications and different approaches and includes different groups of women. I feel closer to the radical ones in many aspects... but I am also aware that the feminist movement has become "trendy" now and some posers are using it to their own benefit or to push their own agendas.

What do you think?

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@killuridols Sure sounds like she's talking about Axl, with the references to "his people." As a feminist myself, I kind of hope she is influenced by feminism. I love rock music, but someone needs to point out the problematic parts of rock/metal culture. Unfortunately, I know very little about Roxana. Wasn't there some groupie women writing a few years ago who was rather right wing and anti-feminist? Could this be the same person?

Update: Ah shit, I think it is the same person. But after some quick research it looks like feminist Bitch Media supports her writing? I'm going to dig more into this.

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16 hours ago, Frey said:

IAnd I'm pretty sure I've mentioned before that I used to have long hair. Not my fault you don't read and remember every single thing I post :max:

:bitchfight:

We all know why you came up with this discussion. Out of nowhere. :max: To bash gnr members and then to highlight your amazingly fabulous shiny healthy long hair. The next step will be you trying to convince us to worship the thing that grows on your head. :max:

You can't fool me, I can see through you :devilshades:

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8 hours ago, Tori72 said:

But what did Duff do in the vid above to Slash?! Was he kissing him the entire time or was it just one kiss on his shoulder? Nevertheless!

 :lol:

I think he was just slobbering all over him in a really gross way lol

7 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

You shouldn't worry too much anyway, most of the criticism for Slash comes either from the heretic @Kris_1989 or from @Frey who clearly hates him and has and agenda to destroy him :rofl-lol:

ik_multimedia_at_slh_did_in_amplitube_sl

Hate him?! :wow:

I've been praying for his return to the band for years and he's my all-time favorite guitarist!

I just do not believe in his godlines :awesomeface:

(Though that is admittedly a very cool picture of him.)

6 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Which video is this?  Can it be found on YT? Where is this photo series?  Can it be found somewhere? :lol:

@BorderlineCrazy  Beautiful shot of Slash, thanks for sharing.

@Lumikki was the source of these pictures, she made an entire Sluff kissing picture spam post once. I think I even indexed it already in the Sluff section, so go check there. It's possible the pictures and GIFs are not showing up anymore though since photobucket has apparently exploded or something. In that case, bug @Lumikki about it lol.

12 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

:bitchfight:

We all know why you came up with this discussion. Out of nowhere. :max: To bash gnr members and then to highlight your amazingly fabulous shiny healthy long hair. The next step will be you trying to convince us to worship the thing that grows on your head. :max:

You can't fool me, I can see through you :devilshades:

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight 

And you make it sound like I've got some bizarre tumor growing out of my head :max:

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

You cancer better be removed posted bad pics of :slash: ....... Now you've gone at the top of my list of uncool forum people :max: :max: :max:

Since when did you become a "Slash is God and no bad word (or picture in this case) about him shall be allowed!" type? :suspicious::suspicious::max:

SLASHITE 

39 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Ok. Let's go back to the important... :ph34r:

This morning I found this on my email.... have you read it yet?

An Iranian girl and her rockstars - The Huffington Post

Here's the excerpt that made me curious and laugh:

"Recently I had a fling with one legendary rock star and he too, despite being nice and so kind-hearted emerged as someone who never managed normal daily tasks. He was like a toddler having had his ‘people’ do everything for him since his early ‘20s, and never knew how to take initiative, how to make decisions, or how to be in social situations, even down to being able to communicate clearly and concisely with me. He was all muddled, sober and clean but mentally, like a kid who needed to be nannied,. He always wanted me to tell him what to do, where to meet, how to spend time.

When I had first been intimate with him the room was all liquid and wobbly. Images of his past famous girlfriends flashing in my head. I looked like a potato. A dumpy council state potato. He was so lioneque, so naturally sensual that I felt tiny. But also…. I did not want to feel a thing; like when you are at the dentist. Because if I let myself feel, the sutures of the heart would gently loosen, commencing a bloody lovely adoration that would metamorphose into a volcano of love which would become the death of me because I could never be with him. Yes he was cheating on his partner but he like me did not subscribe to the manufactured unnatural concept that pure romantic love should be affiliated to monogamy. He adored her and I adored him for that and I just wished that she like me, would love him so much that she would want him to have different shades and varieties of love and sex."

Ahahaha

Yeah that all sounds very Axl-like.

But would that make Beta the partner she was talking about? :wow:

Because I find it hard to believe that Axl has some woman hidden away at home that we've never even heard about.

About the feminist issue... I don't know enough about her to really comment, but I did notice that she tried really hard to make everyone notice how smart and educated she was in her first book (judging by the excerpts @Kris_1989 posted). I only skimmed those excerpts, but I remember her talking about her other life as a smart and educated women and her university classes and the way she made some literature references to look clever.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Fang said:

@killuridols Sure sounds like she's talking about Axl, with the references to "his people." As a feminist myself, I kind of hope she is influenced by feminism. I love rock music, but someone needs to point out the problematic parts of rock/metal culture. Unfortunately, I know very little about Roxana. Wasn't there some groupie women writing a few years ago who was rather right wing and anti-feminist? Could this be the same person?

I don't know because she also mentions the guy is "cheating on his partner" with her and as far as I'm concerned Axl hasn't had an official partner since 1995? :shrugs:

Dates of when this happened are unavailable so I'm confused but yeah, the whole description does sound like an Axl.

I agree with the bolded but this woman doesn't look to me like the most adequate person to pursue that task. If she's really been a groupie and slept around with all those rockers then she's been part of the system. She's been an enabler of the whole thing so I don't get what the fuck she complains about now.

All the rights and things feminism advocates for get shattered by people like this. Besides, I find it so dated and boring to be talking about your sexual adventures. It is not news anymore. Who cares? I don't know. At this point in my life I really don't give a fuck for a book like that.... I'm not up for shaming past sexual partners, exposing them, talking about their sizes and sexual performance, geez.... it's so basic and square... :shrugs:

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28 minutes ago, Fang said:

Oh! Awesome.... Just what I thought :devilshades: 

POSER

14 minutes ago, Fang said:

@killuridols Agreed. It would make her an enabler. Though...sometimes I think even I am an enabler by supporting this band in the first place. Being a feminist GN'R fan makes me feel conflicted a LOT.

Lol, I understand your feelings. I feel the same as well. But I've tried to analyze it To relieve the conflict.

This is a band that I became fan of when I was a kid. I didn't know about feminism or men or sex back then. I just liked their music and their attitude. I also must say English is not my native language, so when I was a kid I hardly understood the lyrics. It was later on that I became aware of some of those lyrics and of course, I didn't like it, but the damage was already done :lol:

GN'R is extensively tied to my teenager memories and experiences. It is really hard to get rid of those feelings and attachments because in some ways, they've shaped my personality and who I am nowadays, so I wouldn't feel cool with myself if I decided to not listen to them anymore because of their perceived sexism.

What I have decided though is to approach them in a different way. I have removed from my music songs like UTLH, Back Off Bitch and OIAM (that one ain't sexist but I totally despise the lyrics). I have got rid of any platonic love I felt before for them. To be honest, I don't find any of them irresistibly hot anymore, so this task becomes easier and easier as time goes by. Fortunately, I was also able to stop "hating" :lol: on their women many decades ago, as all the platonic faded away and the delusions of "marrying" one of them disappeared as soon as I became a young adult. I am thankful for having developed a sane mind in that sense :P

And now I just enjoy them for whom they are: musicians. With this, I'm not saying I have no endearing feelings for them or that I don't give a fuck about their humanity or their personals lives. I do! I wish them well and happiness until they are swiped away from this earth. But at the same time, I will not be condoning their behavior if I consider it to be contrary to my beliefs and principles as an adult person. 

The same with their past... I will not justify any of the things they did to women just because they are my music heroes. I will not hate on their past or current relationships just because I wish or hope that would be me. I am alert and aware now and I also want to understand why they behaved the way they did and said the things they said....this is the reason why I'm so interested in revisiting old stories, talking to fans from the first hour and theorizing about everything since when I was a kid I didn't have the tools and resources to process the lives of these guys.

51 minutes ago, Frey said:

Yeah that all sounds very Axl-like.

But would that make Beta the partner she was talking about? :wow:

Because I find it hard to believe that Axl has some woman hidden away at home that we've never even heard about.

About the feminist issue... I don't know enough about her to really comment, but I did notice that she tried really hard to make everyone notice how smart and educated she was in her first book. I only skimmed those excerpts, but I remember her talking about her other life as a smart and educated women and her university classes and the way she made some literature references to look clever.

Lol, it does but I'm confused about the partner thing as well so I have no idea. Maybe this happened when he was with Sasha? :question:

Check out the link @Fang posted above. The review of that book by a feminist website exposes all the flaws in her writing.

I didn't even need to read the book to already raise doubts about where she's coming from and her usage of feminism as a tool to advertise her crap book. 

She doesn't come across to me as very smart and educated.... If she was, she wouldn't be reducing herself to a piece of meat those old rockers ate at backstage. She wouldn't base her writing career on books about sexual intercourse and predictable disappointment. 

I don't know which point she is trying to make with all this but serious feminism would never give it the time of day. 

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23 minutes ago, Fang said:

Though...sometimes I think even I am an enabler by supporting this band in the first place. Being a feminist GN'R fan makes me feel conflicted a LOT.

I`m ordinary woman GNR fan, this issue with feminism and patriarchal oppression kind of surprised me here.

There are people who has something special inside which makes you to care about them and protect them and you actually enjoy it, they go straight to your heart. Sometimes it happens in milliseconds. I personally know few people who probably survive just because of this (both genders). They tend to attract people who enable their behavior, because it`s easier for them than to learn to live on their own. 

Recently I`ve read an interview with former manager of Freddie Mercury, who spent Freddie`s last twelve years with him every day, Freddie even died in his hands - he said Freddie was so shy and insecure in civil life that he even was not able to go to café or so alone. He also could not cook, even tea, so manager and Freddie`s partner did all chores for him. Also for Freddie to have time to make his magic - music.

So it might not be as rare, just saying.

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@Alja and @killuridols I can relate to both of your perspectives. I disapprove of many things the guys have done and seek to learn why they do certsin things (though a factor is not the same as an excuse for the behavior). At the same time, I care about them. Something about Axl makes me protective, especially when I read bout his childhood. I finally defeated my obsession with marrying him though. Some people are problematic, and bad for women. I still see my first crush when I see him but am mature enougj to love at a distance.

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30 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Oh! Awesome.... Just what I thought :devilshades: 

POSER

Lol, I understand your feelings. I feel the same as well. But I've tried to analyze it To relieve the conflict.

This is a band that I became fan of when I was a kid. I didn't know about feminism or men or sex back then. I just liked their music and their attitude. I also must say English is not my native language, so when I was a kid I hardly understood the lyrics. It was later on that I became aware of some of those lyrics and of course, I didn't like it, but the damage was already done :lol:

GN'R is extensively tied to my teenager memories and experiences. It is really hard to get rid of those feelings and attachments because in some ways, they've shaped my personality and who I am nowadays, so I wouldn't feel cool with myself if I decided to not listen to them anymore because of their perceived sexism.

What I have decided though is to approach them in a different way. I have removed from my music songs like UTLH, Back Off Bitch and OIAM (that one ain't sexist but I totally despise the lyrics). I have got rid of any platonic love I felt before for them. To be honest, I don't find any of them irresistibly hot anymore, so this task becomes easier and easier as time goes by. Fortunately, I was also able to stop "hating" :lol: on their women many decades ago, as all the platonic faded away and the delusions of "marrying" one of them disappeared as soon as I became a young adult. I am thankful for having developed a sane mind in that sense :P

And now I just enjoy them for whom they are: musicians. With this, I'm not saying I have no endearing feelings for them or that I don't give a fuck about their humanity or their personals lives. I do! I wish them well and happiness until they are swiped away from this earth. But at the same time, I will not be condoning their behavior if I consider it to be contrary to my beliefs and principles as an adult person. 

The same with their past... I will not justify any of the things they did to women just because they are my music heroes. I will not hate on their past or current relationships just because I wish or hope that would be me. I am alert and aware now and I also want to understand why they behaved the way they did and said the things they said....this is the reason why I'm so interested in revisiting old stories, talking to fans from the first hour and theorizing about everything since when I was a kid I didn't have the tools and resources to process the lives of these guys.

Lol, it does but I'm confused about the partner thing as well so I have no idea. Maybe this happened when he was with Sasha? :question:

Check out the link @Fang posted above. The review of that book by a feminist website exposes all the flaws in her writing.

I didn't even need to read the book to already raise doubts about where she's coming from and her usage of feminism as a tool to advertise her crap book. 

She doesn't come across to me as very smart and educated.... If she was, she wouldn't be reducing herself to a piece of meat those old rockers ate at backstage. She wouldn't base her writing career on books about sexual intercourse and predictable disappointment. 

I don't know which point she is trying to make with all this but serious feminism would never give it the time of day. 

Out of likes but really enjoyed reading your perspective on this.   What bad things have the guys done to women in the past?  I'm a bit ignorant on that front. I mean, besides Slash cheating on his girlfriends and wives.  <_<

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6 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

That's an interesting topic for discussion.  My view is I'm not conflicted about being a woman GNR fan, I guess because I have no problem with their lyrics to begin with.  I'm not offended.  The lyrics reflect their worldview at the time and I'm ok with that.  Their lyrics certainly do not represent my worldview but I don't have to, nor do I want to listen to music that corresponds with only my own ideology.  I appreciate their (or Axl's) honesty even if it's uncomfortable or unpalatable because it shows who they really were at that time, not a sanitised version of themselves.  What you see is what you get type of thing.  Even that horrid lyric in Bad Obsession (one of my favourite songs) 'Called my mother, she's just a c now' is basically showing you inside a junkie mindset i.e. anyone who tries to stop them getting their fix is a c, no matter who they are to the junkie.  There's honesty in that and sometimes honesty is ugly.  Still a great song though!

Wow. That's a very mature approach to all of this. I admire you. I wish I wasn't so radical and that I could see it that way too.

Im not there yet. Maybe because I'm still conflicted with other things that happened to me in my life, with both men and women. Maybe someday I will grow to be better, lol.

8 minutes ago, Fang said:

@Alja and @killuridols I can relate to both of your perspectives. I disapprove of many things the guys have done and seek to learn why they do certsin things (though a factor is not the same as an excuse for the behavior). At the same time, I care about them. Something about Axl makes me protective, especially when I read bout his childhood. I finally defeated my obsession with marrying him though. Some people are problematic, and bad for women. I still see my first crush when I see him but am mature enougj to love at a distance.

What is this protection thing you all talk about? :shrugs:

I will need an explanation because in my dictionary I can't associate GN'R with that feeling. I can't see any of those guys as victims or weak people who need protection. Especially from women. This is odd to me. I feel nothing like that about them. More so, I should be protected from them :rofl-lol:

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19 hours ago, Fourteenbeers said:

axl_rose_nirvana_smiley_face_logo.jpg

Here's a smile..and another one... 

Whenever i see this picture I always think he looks like a young Dennis Waterman, I think it could be the glasses :) Most of you apart from @MillionsOfSpiders and @janrichmond will probably have no idea who i'm talking about. He is a well known British actor and fellow red head with a hot temper. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Slash is glorious!

Yes, he is! :P

1 hour ago, Frey said:

Hate him?! :wow:

I've been praying for his return to the band for years and he's my all-time favorite guitarist!

I just do not believe in his godlines :awesomeface:

(Though that is admittedly a very cool picture of him.)

LOL, I'm just kidding, chairman :lol: You're not very good at demonstrating your love for him, though :max:

Still, shame on you for not believing. This last year and a half he's been praised by way more people than all the gods from the fake religions :headbang: #SuckOnThatJebus (?)

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21 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Out of likes but really enjoyed reading your perspective on this.   What bad things have the guys done to women in the past?  I'm a bit ignorant on that front. I mean, besides Slash cheating on his girlfriends and wives.  <_<

Thank you.

Well, there are many things out there, most fall into the category of "rumor" since we don't have documents or more specific proof of it but, in a nutshell, I've heard of Izzy "selling women", Steven beating a girlfriend, Slash and Axl accused of raping a minor, Axl accused and taken to court for beating up both Erin and Stephanie, Axl accused of forcing sex on Sheila Kennedy, Slash making terrible sexist comments, and lately, this Roxana Shirazi revealed Dizzy forced her to have an abortion....among other things.

In my view, cheating is not violence against women. It goes both way, women cheat too so to me, that's not a "crime". What I don't justify or find hypocrite is when patriarchal fans call Stephanie Seymour a cheater and neglect the fact that Axl was cheating on her too but he made a fucking scandal when he discovered her doing it and fans support him with that bullshit. 

Edited by killuridols
lots of typos grrr
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7 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Whenever i see this picture I always think he looks like a young Dennis Waterman, I think it could be the glasses :) Most of you apart from @MillionsOfSpiders and @janrichmond will probably have no idea who i'm talking about. He is a well known British actor and fellow red head with a hot temper. :lol:

Well now I can't unsee it :lol: 

He is also a terrible misogynist, he went on record to say it was ok hit his wife because she was more intelligent than him and he couldn't argue with her. That was his excuse. 

He pucnched her, but that's not beating, that is hitting and it is different. According to him. 

Eeekk!!! 

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1 minute ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Well now I can't unsee it :lol: 

He is also a terrible misogynist, he went on record to say it was ok hit his wife because she was more intelligent than him and he couldn't argue with her. That was his excuse. 

He pucnched her, but that's not beating, that is hitting and it is different. According to him. 

Eeekk!!! 

Yes pretty awful dude. Sorry you will always see him in that picture now, at least I won't be the only one. :P

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