GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Georgina Arriaga]

3 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said:

I don't have a problem with pop up shops if it's actual merch for the fans, but $300/$600 plain shirts that could be made for less than $50 just seems like "give us all your money and fuck off"

Those pop up shops are far away from the concerts, I'm a fan of the band...those things don't affect me in the slightiest...simply I don't put attention and don't give them money for that kind of retail..... I bought a shirt in San Jose for 30$ and another one for 40$ in Miami, I love them both....I didn't found them expensive and it was at the concerts and in my opinion both concerts delivered much more than I was expecting ( I was blown away in Miami).

My complaint is the way they chooses to celebrate AFD...lame and not for everybody...

[Ratam]

19 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Those pop up shops are far away from the concerts, I'm a fan of the band...those things don't affect me in the slightiest...simply I don't put attention and don't give them money for that kind of retail..... I bought a shirt in San Jose for 30$ and another one for 40$ in Miami, I love them both....I didn't found them expensive and it was at the concerts and in my opinion both concerts delivered much more than I was expecting ( I was blown away in Miami).

My complaint is the way they chooses to celebrate AFD...lame and not for everybody...

Me too😧

[MillionsOfSpiders]

1 hour ago, Kris_1989 said:

There's this one tooI don't have a problem with pop up shops if it's actual merch for the fans, but $300/$600 plain shirts that could be made for less than $50 just seems like "give us all your money and fuck off"

They have a whole range with them. What I find most perplexing is the fact they seem to think this stuff is awesome. I mean, really?  

1 hour ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Those pop up shops are far away from the concerts, I'm a fan of the band...those things don't affect me in the slightiest...simply I don't put attention and don't give them money for that kind of retail..... I bought a shirt in San Jose for 30$ and another one for 40$ in Miami, I love them both....I didn't found them expensive and it was at the concerts and in my opinion both concerts delivered much more than I was expecting ( I was blown away in Miami).

My complaint is the way they chooses to celebrate AFD...lame and not for everybody...

Yes, and half of the stuff in the LA store isn't even AFD related by the looks of it, so just using the anniversary as a way to promote whatever it is they're trying to pull at the pop up shop is lame. 

[marlingrl03]

Wasn't there someone in this group who said they threw their thong at Axl? 

 

[Ratam]

47 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

Wasn't there someone in this group who said they threw their thong at Axl? 

 

And Axl look very funny 😃🌝

[MillionsOfSpiders]

7 hours ago, killuridols said:

Yes, last year the videos were so cool, for each show and each country. I think they were made by Kat.... but now Kat barely works, in my opinion, she does nothing! Only a few pictures, which get uploaded after 5 months of the show you've attended and that's it. Holidays all day long

She is very busy, very very busy with the air brush. 

[killuridols]

4 hours ago, Alja said:

I can do brief research on anything just to be sure I remember it well (or correct myself), including vocal techniques and my favorite band. I pointed out what I think is crucial and where you can easily find reference underlying my argument, and I really don`t feel an urge to redirect you to some actual scientific articles, because in this case it`s just plain basics for either public speaking and singing (I do both) without getting your vocal chords ruined before your 15 minutes of fame in presenting room finishes. You can find it on first page of Google and you will get proper basic information on topic. 

Anyone can do that and there are even quick courses people who speaks in public or has to speak in public can take...... now.... what in the flyin' heck does any of it have to do with what I was asking here about Axl using a different voice for his onstage "characters"?

The problem with you is that in your desperation to sound smart or look smart or to brag about I don't know what, you end up losing the focus of the simple things, and transform them into shit that becomes a 180º turn from what initially was. I don't need to do research on vocal techniques or whatever the hell you're tripping on because that is not what I was talking about or even care about. The fact that you don't get to understand simple direct questions reveals a couple of things about you.

5 hours ago, Alja said:

You told here that you study and do some research on one of the most prestigious Latin America universities; social studies. So I assume that you have wide knowledge of classic western philosophy as a basic for all arts, and, especially for Master`s degree you also have knowledge about how to do modern research. Did you know that Google is one of proper tools for searching articles for your research? Have you even heard about Google Scholar? Tons of proper research articles on your access if you don`t have full access to databases you need - like ScienceDirect or Scopus in my field. (if we start going to details... everything can be good research tool if you know how to use it... ehm. I am talking to master`s degree student. I`m talkin` to master`s degree student. I`m...)

Yeah, I agree that anything can be a good research tool if you know how to use it........ Now, why would I want to go great lengths to research about vocal training or vocal techniques when all I did was asking a simple, normal, doxa level question??

None of this is related with my studies at post-grad school..... why are you so fixated with it and show the need to bring it up all the time? Most of Guns N' Roses topics do no require College degrees or college level studies in order to have discussions about them. Some things can be linked to social studies but it is really stepping out of the music itself.

5 hours ago, Alja said:

You plainly dissed me previously on some "discussion" about vocal technique for AC/DC and Guns material and I really had no other impression than plain dissing (still not talking about more intense topics or that it`s usual from you) without any effort to learn something about singing. One would think that college student will do at least some effort to get the thing he/she started to discuss, but no. Plain rant. If you do same in university, be sure that`s why students of social and especially gender studies are endless source of fun, doesn`t matter how prestigious university they attend.

So now you're the expert vocal coach of the forum TOO? (one more thing to add to your impressive CV of expertise in neuroscience, social science, psychology, psychiatry, illustration, singer, caretaker, ad infinitum...........)

You get dissed because you're not serious. Not only you've shown wide ignorance on several topics but you also show extensive ignorance in the way you expose your arguments. Your train-of-thought is very hard to follow (and not precisely because you're an Einstein). Your speech is usually unclear, disorganized and fallacious. For such a scholar like you say you are, you lack everything that science requires a researcher to be.

I am one of the few people who, sometimes, care to read what you have to say and reply to you. Looks to me you're not in position to make fun of anyone.

This forum represents leisure to me. I come here to talk about my favorite band with other fans and exchange information, news, photos and opinions on different topics related (sometimes not) to their music/personal lives/social impact, etc. But most of it is done on the doxa level, since there's no need to be making a PhD thesis of every fuckin' little thing. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand.

5 hours ago, Alja said:

I am a kind of renaissance person. All that time you spend on watching social networks and gossip, I can spend learning, because I`m interested in basically everything. If you solidly proof that my explanation of voice technique is wrong, I will be happy because I can learn something new. 

LOL.

Good for you. But reading about everything does not make you an expert or an authority in the fields that you read about. Only inside your head.

I never said your explanation of voice technique is wrong because I didn't even read it. As I told you before, you don't get to understand the simple things, I really doubt you can understand the complicated ones. You just repeat like a parrot what you read or probably copy+paste here your Google findings.

5 hours ago, Alja said:

Taking about classic western philosophy, it`s taught because it`s essential for scientific method and building up solid argument without tangible urge to put people down instead, if they say something contrary your opinions or (in your case more often) unfounded beliefs, and what to do if you started theme on which you have too little clue (because you always end up in a messy emotional dissing, crowned with all that fancy emoticons, which puts you and your argument down. Still talking to master`s degree student, I know.) 

Unlike you, jack-of-all-trades (master of none), I hardly ever talk about the things that I don't know.

All the contrary to you, if I don't know about something or do not care about a topic, I step outside and do not pretend that I know everything, because I don't. And Im not a reinassance poser because honestly, I'm not interested in everything that is out there in the world, nor do I believe that someone can be an expert in so many things at a time..... At least, not in the modern times we're living...... unless you are funded by someone who maintains your ass while you use all of your time for becoming this multiple guru of BS.

6 hours ago, Alja said:

I can`t read other`s minds, at least not explicit thoughts. Get over it.

Don't worry. I'm sure NO ONE here believes you can read minds

(although I know you're training yourself at it as I type this )

 

[killuridols]

19 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

She is very busy, very very busy with the air brush. 

OMG the last pictures of Axl they posted at the Official FanPage are sooooo fake and photoshopped that I can't really look at them.

That's not his face! I mean, the jaw part gets so weird in her pictures.... with those heavy black shadows and the face looks like it is missing a part.... oh lord.... don't get me started!

 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

OMG the last pictures of Axl they posted at the Official FanPage are sooooo fake and photoshopped that I can't really look at them.

That's not his face! I mean, the jaw part gets so weird in her pictures.... with those heavy black shadows and the face looks like it is missing a part.... oh lord.... don't get me started!

 

It couldn't be more obvious if she did it with Tipp-Ex!

His face is nothing like his actual face and the whole thing ends up making him look worse, in my opinion. The under the chin crops are getting more and more bizarre, she almost decapitates him. Talk about losing your head! 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

13 hours ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

The pop up shops don't bother me per se...I will not buy anything...jeje...what bothers me is that Fernando thinks that retail is the appropiate way of celebrate AFD! For me, that album is the best thing ever and celebrate with fucking retail is....no words...

Yep.  Said my piece about this in the Are We Too Hard on Guns thread. No, it's not an appropriate way to acknowledge AFD anniversary.  It's a fucking disgrace.  It's the one thing about Guns' reunion that genuinely pisses me off to the point I almost question why I call myself a fan...almost.  

I accept their faults and their quirks and history...including over-the-top merch cash grab, sleazy 'museum installations' and unwillingness to get Izzy and Steven on board even if briefly...but what I cannot accept is the blatant disregard for their music and musical legacy.  There is no excuse. None.  We're not six months into the reunion tour anymore, it's been well over a year, the actual anniversary has come and gone (with no acknowledgment) and BY NOW we should have seen a box set of:

- remastered AFD CD/digital/vinyl/limited edition cassette tape for the collectors

- uncensored, uncut live show e.g The Ritz 88 with commentary option, interviews DVD/Blu Ray/downloadable formats

- audio of a rare gig e.g. The Marquee London on CD (it's GREAT on YT, imagine how good it would sound cleaned up?)

- B sides along with previously unheard music from that era (even Chinese Democracy era at this rate) on all the different formats

- Different mixes, remixes and extended versions of AFD tracks 

- documentary, even if short, containing previously unseen footage/interviews

- a collection of unseen or rare interviews with the guys and those associated with their success

...Or something like that.

That is how you celebrate the 30th anniversary of one of the most important rock albums in music history. 

And that wish list is totally doable because Def Leppard (also celebrating a 30th anniversary) has done just that AND more.  With their Hysteria box set they've thrown in 5 CDs, 2DVDs, 4 books (including a PHOTO book), a tour programme, a poster and they have COLOURED vinyl options just for laughs.  Hell, I bought the newly released  Guns' Perkins Palace 87 gig on CD, along with Slash interview and and documentary that was put out by The Broadcast Archive - totally unauthorised - but at least this company managed to throw something together for the anniversary year.  Guns have released nothing.

When I saw that Def Leppard box set in the shop and witnessed a couple of fans losing their shit over it, beaming with happiness, I was so jealous I was practically livid.  Because what have we got?  $600 t-shirts.  $4000 leather jackets.  $1500 hoodies.  Well, fuck you too, Guns N Roses.  

 

 

11 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I'll still go and see them if they come back to Europe  I am such a sucker  

They have a GnR hoodie which is £1,300

in the sale!!...  lmao!! 

No, you're not a sucker.  You're a fan of their music.  Their music is important to you, like it is to all of us here.  It's so important you're prepared to overlook all the other crap they dish out and deal in, just so you can listen to their music.  And this is why I get angry with the band and the 'management' because while they are vomiting out stinking piles of GNR retail and merch - happy anniversary! what fans REALLY want is Guns N' Roses music - distant past (AFD), not so distant past( CD), current - we'll take whatever.  I'll gladly chuck my money at them for THAT.  

And they can't see that?  How can they get it so fucking wrong.  I don't care if they want to release $300 t-shirts, fine, but don't value t-shirts over music.  That is the worst part for me, right there: in prioritising retail/merch Axl, Slash and Duff devalue their own musical legacy and in doing that, they devalue the fans.  It's like they are sending us collectively a massive fuck you.  

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[MillionsOfSpiders]

@MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle I get your pain, I do, but those gimmicky box sets like Def Leppard and Whitesnake release just make me want to vomit  Wouldn't ever want to see AFD end up remastered and remixed and repackaged with the world 'deluxe' on it  

The only way they could've made me happy was for them to share the stage with Izzy and Adler, even for just that one show and let us have the DVD of it. That's basically the only way for me lol. Otherwise, just ignore it like they normally do and let people whinge about that instead.

This reunion has brought with it something I never expected, the way they can now use all of their classic/original logos for branding purposes. I can't explain to you why I find it so horrifying to see all the classic era stuff stuck onto a designer t shirt, but from my eyes to my brain to the pit of my stomach and then 

That's my explanation 

[SerenityScorp]

Too 🔥 

 

[Georgina Arriaga]

He uses underwear? I think not.

Something positive? Apparently the shows in South America will be 3 hours.

The only person in the GNR camp who shares information is the lovely Meegan. She is being bombarded with questions about new music. But  nada. She said that nobody calls Slash Saul. He don't like it. I wonder when he has to go to school as a father, the teachers calls him "Mr. Slash "?

Edited August 19, 2017 by Georgina Arriaga

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

29 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

@MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle I get your pain, I do, but those gimmicky box sets like Def Leppard and Whitesnake release just make me want to vomit  Wouldn't ever want to see AFD end up remastered and remixed and repackaged with the world 'deluxe' on it  

 

I don't mean remastering AFD to change the song arrangements or to change the current mix (not sure if that's what you thought I meant?).  I mean remastering to improve the sound quality.  

The way it is now, I have to turn up the volume significantly to hear the songs in comparison to more recently released music, even UYI sounds better.  I mean, it's a 30 year old recording and it sounds like it.  It's wonderful when you get a remastered old album because you can hear every instrument and every nuance of the mix so much more clearly - it's not muffled like it is on the old version.  We've all still got our originals, and to have the option of AFD with enhanced sound quality - well, I can't think of a reason why anyone wouldn't want that? 

Any AFD songs that are remixed or extended versions would go on a separate CD.  

I disagree that box sets are gimmicky.  I can't believe no-one would want to have say, the Ritz 88 gig, cleaned up with improved sound and unedited on DVD?  Or a cleaned up audio of the Marquee gig, or a CD of rare/unseen interviews?  I know I'd rather pay for that than having to rely on crappy YT videos for free. 

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, just expressing my frustration I guess.  The lack of released (old) music is obviously a sore point with me and I get irate about it.  I can't help it!

[MillionsOfSpiders]

@MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle Yes, I understand what you meant. It is only my opinion.

I personally detest remastered albums, I get it a lot on Apple or Napster or whatever because they're the only versions and I don't like them compared to the originals. 

I have an expensive set of head phones, AFD sounds brilliant through them for me, so I wouldn't appreciate a remaster. It wouldn't be worth it for me to re buy the album.

I really don't know how much unseen stuff there is for guns, but what I find with nearly all box sets is it's just stuff rereleased that has been knocking around for ages and just collected and stuck all together in pretty packaging. With deluxe written on it. Maybe I am wrong, clearly I do not buy them 

Of course I would buy anything like The Ritz show (if this could be cleaned up, wouldn't someone have done it by now?) or Use Your Illusions shows we know they have pro shot of. 

If they somehow decided to release documentary DVDs or old live shows I would be thrilled, of course. But not as a gimmicky box set 

I do like the fact that have managed to get to 30yrs without ever remastering or repackaging that album. 

That is just my view point. I am probably in the minority though. 

[killuridols]

51 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Something positive? Apparently the shows in South America will be 3 hours.

Yeah, 3 hours with The Who added! 

I hate long shows, really.... Especially if I can't sit.... And if they are long only because they add lots of jams and solos and bullshit no one wants to hear. If they're gonna be more songs yeah, but I doubt it....

34 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I disagree that box sets are gimmicky.  I can't believe no-one would want to have say, the Ritz 88 gig, cleaned up with improved sound and unedited on DVD?  Or a cleaned up audio of the Marquee gig, or a CD of rare/unseen interviews?  I know I'd rather pay for that than having to rely on crappy YT videos for free. 

I would love to have those things but I'm not sure they actually have it.... I remember Axl said that Del James had to go through a lot of material in order to get it right to make the Live Era album. He also said that album was made so to close that period of time. So, maybe in Axl's mind he feels he has nothing else to say or do regarding past music 

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

The only way they could've made me happy was for them to share the stage with Izzy and Adler, even for just that one show and let us have the DVD of it. That's basically the only way for me lol. Otherwise, just ignore it like they normally do and let people whinge about that instead.

Yeah, I think this would have been the simplest and most appropriate way of celebrating AFD anniversary, but since they couldn't get around to manage anything about it then releasing something related to it would have been awesome.

It looks to me that this reunion was improvised and that no one believed anything about it in the beginning. That's why they haven't prepared themselves for the AFD anniversary and they probably asked Izzy and Steven to join but never considered  they wouldn't accept impositions just like that and since negotiating would have taken longer, they decided to get on the road anyway.

Steven was ditched after Buenos Aires shows??? Why is that?? I don't get it, I don't get why he couldn't play in every show, even if it was only 2 songs.... Izzy didn't manage to be at ANY fucking show.... Obviously things didn't come out as planned or they didn't plan too much. The pop up shops in L.A. and other capitals look like last minute shit they put together just to justify something about celebrating AFD.

Remastering the album or putting box sets together would have taken much more time and planning than asking a couple designers to make some tshirts.

 

[Georgina Arriaga]

5 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yeah, 3 hours with The Who added! 

I hate long shows, really.... Especially if I can't sit.... And if they are long only because they add lots of jams and solos and bullshit no one wants to hear. If they're gonna be more songs yeah, but I doubt it....

I enjoy the 3 hours show...it went smoothly and the flow was good...and I thought it was good news..apparently is terrible

Really, why everything has to be bad? In my opinion the live show is extremely good and they gave it all

 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

I have OK Sony headphones - they do a great job at picking up bass but it's my dream to own a pair of wireless Bose.   I just can't afford them right now.

Re: unseen stuff...I guess I'm assuming there's quite a bit in the vault?  I could be wrong.  Slash alluded to this in his book.  And yeah, definitely the pro shot for UYI.  I don't know why, I just feel like there's probably more stuff they could do that yes, someone should have done by now, but because it's freakin' Guns no one has.  Because you know, that would mean being organised and professional. 

Re: getting the 5 together.  It's another one of my bugbears that I get irate over because EVEN if Steven is a blabbermouth and irritating to work with, and EVEN if Izzy wants his part of the loot...so what?  

Axl...choose your battles mate.  Let them win this one ok?  Let Steven play for fuck's sake, it won't kill you.  Give Izzy the money.  Just give it to him and have done with it.  Then have a proper reunion either a mini-tour, or some select shows.  Just do it for the fans.  

That's one thing that really struck me about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction was that Slash didn't want to do it, but Perla convinced him to 'for the fans'.  I thought that was really decent of him (and her).  If Axl and Slash can put their shit behind them enough to appear together now, I REALLY cannot see why they can't all play together, even if only for a short time.  

 

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

I enjoy the 3 hours show...it went smoothly and the flow was good...and I thought it was good news..apparently is terrible

Really, why everything has to be bad? In my opinion the live show is extremely good and they gave it all

What is bad? I didn't say that... Just that I don't like long shows, much less if they are long because of jams and solos. But that is only my opinion and my take on it, not representative of the whole fandom 

(I thought that wouldn't need to be cleared up)

 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Some of the solos and band jams really ought to be dropped from the live show, they are really boring and suck the energy out of the crowd. 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

15 minutes ago, killuridols said:

 

It looks to me that this reunion was improvised and that no one believed anything about it in the beginning. That's why they haven't prepared themselves for the AFD anniversary and they probably asked Izzy and Steven to join but never considered  they wouldn't accept impositions just like that and since negotiating would have taken longer, they decided to get on the road anyway.

Steven was ditched after Buenos Aires shows??? Why is that?? I don't get it, I don't get why he couldn't play in every show, even if it was only 2 songs.... Izzy didn't manage to be at ANY fucking show.... Obviously things didn't come out as planned or they didn't plan too much. The pop up shops in L.A. and other capitals look like last minute shit they put together just to justify something about celebrating AFD.

Remastering the album or putting box sets together would have taken much more time and planning than asking a couple designers to make some tshirts.

 

Yeah, good point - first bolded part.  

2nd bolded part - this is where having a great management team comes in.  For me, there's still no excuse (apart from having a bad management team).  Time and planning is what every artist has to deal with.  Why should Guns be any different?  But yeah, I see what you mean.  When it comes to Guns, they just don't seem to be able to get their act together.

[Whiskey Rose]

14 hours ago, marlingrl03 said:

Wasn't there someone in this group who said they threw their thong at Axl? 

 

oh my gosh! I believe that belongs to @coolranchdressing! lol!!

[Blackstar]

I don't like these deluxe packages either. What may work for me are reissues (not remastered) with unreleased tracks, alternate takes or mixes (from that era, not new ones). For example, I'd take a good quality audio of Heartbreak Hotel and Jumping Jack Flash (the demos would have to be remastered though).

Probably there's more stuff like that from the Illusions era.

But Axl doesn't like to release things that were not meant to be (on) the final product - at least that was his mindset back then.

Releases of pro-shot shows would be great. I don't know about The Ritz 88, ie. if there are legalities involved because it was an MTV thing. But they must have filmed a couple of other shows from the AFD era that haven't leaked. And of course there are the pro-shots from the Illusions era and also at least one of the warm up shows before the Illusions tour (the one the YCBM video is from).

Edited August 19, 2017 by Blackstar
typos

[Georgina Arriaga]

Tako captures this moment:

 

[killuridols]

8 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

That's one thing that really struck me about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction was that Slash didn't want to do it, but Perla convinced him to 'for the fans'.  I thought that was really decent of him (and her).  If Axl and Slash can put their shit behind them enough to appear together now, I REALLY cannot see why they can't all play together, even if only for a short time.  

In my opinion, this is because there's still power struggle to some extent and Axl's still insecure about his position in the band. 

He got the name and all the legal rights to it but external pressure won over him. He had to give in to the reunion (doesn't matter if it's not a full reunion), he had to do it because his project of nuGN'R was going to hell. 

So now things are like..... this is all I'm going to concede and I'm not gonna stress over Steven being a pain in the ass or having to deal with Izzy's demands. This is my band, these are my conditions. If they accept them, fine. If they don't, I don't care anymore.

And he does nothing for the fans.... He's been clear about this in several occasions with sentences like "your sense of entitlement do not dictate my actions" or "if you're really into waiting try holding your breath for Jesus cause I hear the payoff may be that much greater."

18 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

2nd bolded part - this is where having a great management team comes in.  For me, there's still no excuse (apart from having a bad management team).  Time and planning is what every artist has to deal with.  Why should Guns be any different?  But yeah, I see what you mean.  When it comes to Guns, they just don't seem to be able to get their act together.

Yeah, this is why Axl doesn't have real managers but people who just say yes to his demands. He is the boss, he calls the shots.

IMO, GN'R does not exist as a band anymore. It is now the corporation of one single man commanding the rest. There's no team here. And I don't know what Slash and Duff roles are now, aside from players of their own music.