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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2


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On 8/20/2017 at 5:26 AM, killuridols said:

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It'd be highly doubtful for us to have more than one of the alumni up with us at any given time. I suppose Duff could play guitar on something somewhere, but there's zero possibility of me having anything to do with Slash other than by ambush, and that wouldn't be pretty. He wrote that whole bit about not having his guitar in Vegas, I'd assume, to save face. I was told by both the Hard Rock and different Guns industry people who had come out to be supportive of the new band and were a bit surprised to see him there, especially guitar in hand, but just assumed it was a surprise for the show and we were in on the arrangement.

 

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=168

Is this the incident when He is banned from attending Guns N'a Roses Vegas show? 

Edited by SerenityScorp
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@asia Steven and Izzy have nothing to do with it, exactly my point. Slash was talking about what drove them apart, pre-break-up, so yes, Steven and Izzy were there. It would be easy for them to act like that was the impetus for it all crumbling as their current behavior of shutting them out, confirms. It is not all Axl, it is all 3 of them that played games with both Adler and Izzy and if anyone is confused with how it went down, just look at the current, real time repeat.

No, it doesn't work to pretend, they're grown adults.  Frankly, it is none of our business how they conduct their personal lives and what they converse about, the problem is that not much has changed otherwise Steven and Izzy would have been on tour with their own band, and yes, they BOTH wanted to be part of it, fantasy doesn't substitute for reality with all the goofy stories of Steven's back and Izzy being lost in the woods.  So the part I'm concerned with is the music and how they could all be playing if they got with reality. 

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I don't think they're blaming Izzy and Steven necessarily, I do think they're still putting the blame on others (previous management) and not accepting responsibility for their own involvement though. And it's a little weird to blame all the other managers when TB played such a huge role in keeping them apart for years.

The statement just seems very "We're ignoring our problems so we're fine now". Things could fall apart pretty easily if that's the way they're dealing with stuff.

Edited by Kris_1989
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2 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said:

I don't think they're blaming Izzy and Steven necessarily, I do think they're still putting the blame on others (previous management) and not accepting responsibility for their own involvement though. And it's a little weird to blame all the other managers when TB played such a huge role in keeping them apart for years.

The statement just seems very "We're ignoring our problems so we're fine now". Things could fall apart pretty easily if that's the way they're dealing with stuff.

agree, it's largely as you say, but to me, there is an element of blaming the two, it is something very personal and near them that they can "bond" over, they need something close to alleviate themselves of any responsibility. Blaming industry people, managers etc, as you say, makes no sense unless they address TB, who are still there! This whole thing is kind of disturbing. Goes to show how many decades we can struggle with personal demons and the shit choices we can make out of insecurity or need to re-create a parental role to feel secure. In that sense, I do feel sorry for both Axl and Slash. But come on, what they did to Izzy and Adler makes me ill. I feel guilty going to the shows. All the negative talk about them pisses me off. I mean they are all alive and mobile, it's a true waste. To deny Izzy and Adler a chance to make their peace and to enjoy what the 3 are enjoying, is cruel.  

I find it hard to believe Axl doesn't hear Frank running over him night after night. I just read that Del James interview @SerenityScorp posted, and Axl is going on about how much the drumming of Gnr bothers him! Seemed like he was referencing Sorum mainly but Adler as well, the nerve, those two are worlds better than anyone he had in his new band. It is like he has to convince himself or something. And he talked shit about Izzy too, so that stuff is there with him. Maybe, and I am probably giving too much credit here, but maybe he needs to say these things because Izzy was his lifetime friend and he needed Izzy to write, he needed that collaboration and someone to believe in him and Izzy did, and well, he screwed Izzy repeatedly.  And also because he wants to re-write history, even when he pretends he is taking responsibility look at the arrogance, well, I guess if I could have motivated them or knew how to make them not be such slackers, it would have turned out better, always the innocent hero. 

 

yes, it is held together by a thread if this is their approach. Imagine if they tried writing together, shit will hit the fan once emotions over the most sensitive thing, the writing, come up and Axl remembers losing his confidence for years when they ridiculed him or Slash's grievances of being bullied or not liking the direction of how things went, when that starts coming up, unresolved, it will implode. Duff will be in the corner checking his stocks, lol!

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40 minutes ago, Asia said:

C'mon what do Steven and Izzy got to do with it? Why would any of them blame them when they weren't even there while this happened. It's obvious he meant Goldstein and some other people that were around at that time. And that they blamed it all on others? Well, I guess Duff already hinted at that in his book and it was a safe and smart option. Better than quarelling once again who was more at fault,which would take them nowhere. And most importantly, it worked. Also it's not totally untrue, a lot of people had a lot to do with driving them apart. 

The way I see it, managers are necessary, but they have reach an agreement where those people don't let them dictate what to do with the band, is the other way around. TB, Duff and Slash's managers accept this way of work and until today apparently has work well.....never thought of Steven and Izzy..

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1 hour ago, purplestargirl said:

If I remember correctly, you're in Argentina? It will be July 2, 2019 for you.

Yes. Full winter so maybe we won't see it if it's cloudy and grey as it usually is in July.

42 minutes ago, SerenityScorp said:

Is this the incident when He is banned from attending Guns N'a Roses Vegas show? 

Yeah.

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@Blackstar yes, I read the article and did notice Slash talk about Steven and Izzy in a decent way and you're right it doesn't mesh with casting a lot of blame on them, but I still think some of that was there. Could be wrong. I don't know much about what the managers and record company people were doing. 

Beta was quite involved, even if she just encouraged Axl in his version to secure her spot, any real friend would have called him out so he could self correct, she endeared herself further by saying yes yes yes, Slash is devil. And currently, he is like a kid, bring me 50 guitars, no 50 more! it is like some dream to demand and boss and have every whim catered to. They need real managers but hey, none of this is going to happen and I feel like a nut even talking about it, haha

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11 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Slash: :ph34r:

"When it was firing on all cylinders, I like to consider it a great rock 'n' roll group on its own merit. It wasn't because of gimmicks. Obviously, it was highly volatile. Now that we're back together, without getting too much into it, we're able to talk about it and identify people who got in the way. It's great to be past all that without having to listen to anybody's input—not managers, not business people. We just do what we're good at, and it's nice that it's been well received."

https://web.musicaficionado.com/main.html#!/article/leslie_west_interviews_slash_by_joebosso

This... this is a good sign, a really good one. Thanks for posting that.

 

5 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

About that Slash quote, it's great that they're getting along but aren't some of those people who kept them apart TB? But they're still around so?? I guess they get a free pass now? :lol:

 

5 hours ago, Pishy said:

well, what I read was, we are going to blame and project the real issues on to others and absolve ourselves, see how long we can go like that. So those that caused problems, including themselves, wont be mentioned. The quote said it all, look how it is phrased. I can almost bet they have dared to blame Steven (Axl) and Izzy (Slash). The business people etc are not who they are talking about, he is saying that no one is there to disagree with their assessment of who is at fault. I'm sure they threw in other names, relationships and some industry people, but it feels a bit fake and dishonest otherwise he would have said we talked about OUR issues and how we got in our own way at times and didn't have to elaborate. 

Slash is clearly talking about people like Doug Goldstein in that quote (and if we're really lucky, even about the Maynards). I really don't see how people are reading Izzy and Steven into this. Izzy and Steven caused their fair share of problems for them, but they never "kept them apart" and Slash even mentions "managers and business people" in the next sentence.

The whole thing doesn't apply to TB because TB weren't around in the way they are now during the era of time Slash is probably talking about here (UYI tours). Pretty sure Stephanie Seymour's nanny wasn't a concern to Slash back then. Obviously TB got more influential and powerful later on and did end up playing a significant role in keeping them apart and prolonging this drama, but they can't be blamed for the original issues that broke the band up in the first place imo.

(And obviously Slash and Duff also weren't going to touch the TB issue with a ten foot pole so soon after they'd just started getting along again. Who knows if they ever will...)

 

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@Lumikki again, I know it had nothing to do with Izzy and Adler in reality hence why i said they dared, but they make shit up about them all the time. Maybe it was all about industry people , we don't know, but I've seen plenty of shit talking and blaming innocent people and I'm still pissed off how the 3 have treated Izzy and Adler 

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Mitch Laffon interview with Alan Niven about Appetite for Destruction, he talks about the reunion

http://northeastrockreview.com/rock-talk-with-mitch-lafon-at-podcastone-former-guns-n-roses-manager-alan-niven-quiet-riots-frankie-banali/

He's amazed that they are doing almost 2 years of concerts, he thought they would implode at the fifth one. Always a little dismissive towards Axl, but much less than other times.

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9 hours ago, purplestargirl said:

 

giphy.gif

tumblr_of3xmbux7I1vdixaao1_400.gif 

Here's some more distractions for you. ;) 

He is such a dork in the second one and overall has a corny sense of humor.

Thanks for posting these! I love his dorky sense of humour.  My biggest fan. LOL  More Duff distractions are always welcome. ^^

 

 

8 hours ago, Pishy said:

well, what I read was, we are going to blame and project the real issues on to others and absolve ourselves, see how long we can go like that. So those that caused problems, including themselves, wont be mentioned. The quote said it all, look how it is phrased. I can almost bet they have dared to blame Steven (Axl) and Izzy (Slash). The business people etc are not who they are talking about, he is saying that no one is there to disagree with their assessment of who is at fault. I'm sure they threw in other names, relationships and some industry people, but it feels a bit fake and dishonest otherwise he would have said we talked about OUR issues and how we got in our own way at times and didn't have to elaborate. 

I see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't read quite that much into it, but that's just me.  

My take on it is he's talking about lawyers and managers, who we do know were real pains in the asses for those guys on top of everything else.  I don't think we can jump to the conclusion that they're absolving themselves of responsibility from Slash's quote alone.  For all we know, they've had a grown up convo where each has admitted the part they played, and now they've moved on, and who knows, maybe they feel there's no need to go over it again, certainly not in an interview situation where words/tone might be misconstrued and tensions could flare up again.

Always fun to speculate of course, but I do think we have to be slightly careful about how much we rely on interviews and 'reading between the lines' to answer questions that haven't been asked.

Key phrase for me in Slash's quote is: 'without getting too much into it'.  He's very wisely, not going to throw any of his current band members under the bus.

 

2 hours ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Mitch Laffon interview with Alan Niven about Appetite for Destruction, he talks about the reunion

http://northeastrockreview.com/rock-talk-with-mitch-lafon-at-podcastone-former-guns-n-roses-manager-alan-niven-quiet-riots-frankie-banali/

He's amazed that they are doing almost 2 years of concerts, he thought they would implode at the fifth one. Always a little dismissive towards Axl, but much less than other times.

Thanks for this!  Woo! More insight!  Will check this out later.  

Edited by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle
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2 hours ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Mitch Laffon interview with Alan Niven about Appetite for Destruction, he talks about the reunion

http://northeastrockreview.com/rock-talk-with-mitch-lafon-at-podcastone-former-guns-n-roses-manager-alan-niven-quiet-riots-frankie-banali/

He's amazed that they are doing almost 2 years of concerts, he thought they would implode at the fifth one. Always a little dismissive towards Axl, but much less than other times.

My god... we've got Slash hugging Beta, Axl showing up on time and now Alan Niven complementing Axl. Has hell froze over? Is this how the apocalypse starts??? :lol:

Jokes aside, thanks for sharing. :)

----

@Lumikki I didn't bring Steven or Izzy into this and I don't think he was referring to them. @Pishy brought that up, not me. :question:

Edited by Kris_1989
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9 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

I do think they're still putting the blame on others (previous management) and not accepting responsibility for their own involvement though.

Yes and there is no other way out. Can you imagine Axl saying - well I was an idiot and everything I've thought was stupid and everything I've done was wrong? Or Slash? Obviously they're not the characters that would ever do this. Also it would be pretty risky cause if they took the whole blame upon themselves they would now have to admit they ruined it all for themselves and maybe even hate themselves. It is much easier and definitely more pleasant to hate on Dougie, Lawyers, Maynards, Guitar Technicians or whoever the fuck comes to their mind :lol: Seriously, I think that with who they are and how they are, finding a third party to blame, calling it a misundestanding and alleviating themselves of a lot of responsibility is just the only way it could work. It might not be a good way objectively and generally but probably the only way in their case.

As for Izzy and Steven - well we still don't know what went on behind the scenes and what the reality is with those two is so I'm not so quick to blame them. Izzy and the negotiations with him are a big mistery, we know shit about that, as for Steven, I still think people are underestimating the degree to which he's unstable, dependable upon other people and influenced by them (especially his mother), difficult if something goes not the way he wants to and shit like that which make make it virtually impossible to stand him throughout the entire tour. We only see the smiling happy guy behind the drumkit, we have no idea what he's like on everyday basis and what kind of trouble he could potentially be causing. From what I see, after all his drug history, he definitely isn't an independent person, who thinks independently and clearly and makes all decisions for himself. He's more like a kid - he'll do whatever his mom or whoever else at a given moment tells him to do. I don't think anyone can really depend on him behaving himself adequately to the situation and not causing drama while this is very important for the big three at the moment, so... well, I don't think they care enough about Steven to risk the whole thing going wrong for him.

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13 hours ago, Pishy said:

well, what I read was, we are going to blame and project the real issues on to others and absolve ourselves, see how long we can go like that. So those that caused problems, including themselves, wont be mentioned. The quote said it all, look how it is phrased. I can almost bet they have dared to blame Steven (Axl) and Izzy (Slash).

No, I don't think Slash means Izzy and Steven when he talks about people who got in the way. Although it's hard to tell if he's talking about the break up or about the reunion. 

The reunion has been subject of several people from the industry  (managers and business guys) wanting to "force" it instead of waiting for it to happen naturally. 

Azoff was one of the managers that Axl hated because he was pushing for the reunion and Axl accused him of sabotaging his "nuGuns" project.

Then we have the RNR Hall of Fame doing the same thing and ruining their induction forever. And of course, there have been lots of other attempts throughout the years that Slash mentioned in old interviews about the amount of money that was offered for it to happen.

There were lots of people who got in the way from all parts, I think. This is mainly because they wouldn't communicate directly with each other back in the day....

13 hours ago, Pishy said:

The business people etc are not who they are talking about, he is saying that no one is there to disagree with their assessment of who is at fault. I'm sure they threw in other names, relationships and some industry people, but it feels a bit fake and dishonest otherwise he would have said we talked about OUR issues and how we got in our own way at times and didn't have to elaborate. 

Hmm... the way I interpret it is that he's saying there aren't external parties now who are telling them what to do anymore or how to do it.

That the reunion is something that happened naturally because they talked about their problems, identified the obstacles and now they're just doing what they, as a band, want to do and what they do best, which is playing together.

 

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5 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

@dgnr thanks for posting that video! I really wonder what is happenning...why he looks so happy and content....He was very chatty last night and even said that when members of the band are trying to concentrate he speaks through that channel that only them can hear and made jokes.......

what is going on!!!??

Maybe he's getting some sexy time.  :lol: He definitely seems to be getting his mojo back, which is good to see. I have heard Duff (or was it Richard?) speak of the 'jokes when they're supposed to be playing' scenario before.  I can't remember where I heard that though, an interview somewhere.  

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Yeah,  I believe it.  I mean, I don't think they had a full-on relationship or that they're soulmates or whatever, but honestly, I'd be more shocked if they DIDN'T.  

With all the strippers and the groupies, and the sheer volume of drugs and drink they were doing, plus living on top one another, there would have been experimentation, even if they hardly remembered any of it the next day.  Wasn't it Slash's book where he says they were sleeping so close, Izzy came on his leg one time when he was having sex with someone, and that was when he said 'we've got to get a bigger a place.'  Hilarious.  Also weird mental image. :lol:

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