GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[killuridols]

They are really mean when they want to be mean. 

Axl is meaner than Steven, though.

Little snakes!! 

🐍🐍🐍

[Alja]

Apart from that it may look the same on surface, there`s different depth under. They don`t understand each other because of that. One is too deep and other too shallow to enjoy each other. If Axl decides to act, there is all his depth in move; shallow person can be easily distracted or go out of groove. 

 

[Tori72]

2 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Well, I think they both had messed up childhoods. They both believe in some really wacky things. They’re both very emotional and wear the hearts on their sleeves, they’re both a bit over the top....things like that. 

I just think thy should have an understanding of each other that clearly they don’t 

You’re right!!!!!!!!! 

So armchair psychology would be that their experience is too close for them to relate to one another. To look at the other’s background and what constitutes them is too hurtful to the other because it’s somewhat similar.

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, Tori72 said:

You’re right!!!!!!!!! 

So armchair psychology would be that their experience is too close for them to relate to one another. To look at the other’s background and what constitutes them is too hurtful to the other because it’s somewhat similar.

I wish I was a psychologist to be able to understand this phenomenon but it makes a lot of sense. @MillionsOfSpiders is one smart mofo 

Steven was sexually abused as a child and most people don't give a fuck about that. Only about Axl's abuse.... No one think that Steven's problems surely arise from that too.

I guess Axl despises the way Steven is so open about everything, while he keeps to himself and builds all th rage up inside. 

Also when Axl talks about Steven's mom being a nightmare, he doesn't think of how TB is a nightmare too.

LOL

[Tori72]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

I wish I was a psychologist to be able to understand this phenomenon but it makes a lot of sense. @MillionsOfSpiders is one smart mofo 

Steven was sexually abused as a child and most people don't give a fuck about that. Only about Axl's abuse.... No one think that Steven's problems surely arise from that too.

I guess Axl despises the way Steven is so open about everything, while he keeps to himself and builds all th rage up inside. 

Also when Axl talks about Steven's mom being a nightmare, he doesn't think of how TB is a nightmare too.

LOL

Oh dear, I didn’t even know that! Poor Steven! Jesus!  

So was it someone inside Steven’s family? Was his mother somehow related to it? How did she react? If she acted halfway like Axl’s mom she’s a nightmare because of that. You cannot compare TB to that. They might be a nightmare but for other reasons.

[Alja]

It doesn`t work like that. People can come from similar environment/life situations, but it doesn`t make them relate one to another on any deeper level. If there is too big intelligence gap, they just don`t click, they can tolerate each other, but would never be in tune. If you are on one of the more extreme parts of spectrum, you are kind of too familiar with that. Permanent estrangement. People with extreme intelligence tend to have people around who translate them to the others, in like IT companies there are cohorts of managers and HR people to do that. 

I can`t get rid of feeling that Steven`s mom is around because Steen has guaranteed income for lifetime from royalties. There are very few old sources on these two in early years, but now it makes me feel that she goes for money legitimating herself as Steven`s protector. Book and stuff around... 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

Oh dear, I didn’t even know that! Poor Steven! Jesus!  

So was it someone inside Steven’s family? Was his mother somehow related to it? How did she react? If she acted halfway like Axl’s mom she’s a nightmare because of that. You cannot compare TB to that. They might be a nightmare but for other reasons.

He was sexually abused by two much older men at the age of 13.

I read here...that before the abuse happened his mum kicked him out of the house for drug paraphernalia and having some porno mags...she says she was worried about the influence it would have on the other son. 

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Oh dear, I didn’t even know that! Poor Steven! Jesus!  

So was it someone inside Steven’s family? Was his mother somehow related to it? How did she react? If she acted halfway like Axl’s mom she’s a nightmare because of that. You cannot compare TB to that. They might be a nightmare but for other reasons.

No. This happened when he was 14 years old and he was already hanging out with Slash. His family had moved to California recently.

There in Hollywood he started to frequent the bars, night clubs and that sort of places, which he describes as fully gay places where people did loads of drugs, drank alcohol and had sex in front of everyone, in the public restrooms, alleys, anywhere....

He describes the L.A. scene of the 70s as very wild and free and how putting yourself in the streets was like a scream to "come fuck me, come give me drugs", especially if you were young and looked good, naive. So, basically what happened to him is that two random guys waaaay older than him (like in their 20s) offered weed to him and somehow convinced him to go to an apartment. That's where an older dude in his 40s was waiting. The other two guys disappeared, leaving Steven alone with this disgusting guy who locked the door and grabbed him by the hair. Then he raped Steven and that was it.

Steven came back home, all dizzy and confused because he didn't understand what had happened but he knew it was something bad. He showered because he felt dirty and he says at that moment his whole mind had changed but he neglected all these feelings and kept going. He never told anyone about it until he wrote his biography, so the mom never knew, obviously.

Adler's mom and Axl's mom have a lot of things in common too. They were both very young when they had their first children and Adler's mom was married to Adler's dad but he beat her up and verbally abused her, so she left the home and ran away with Steven and his older brother.

The story is longer and pretty interesting, actually, but I don't think Steven's mom was bad at all. It is so easy to blame women but one has to be in their shoes with all the shitty patriarchal bullshit they've got to put through, jobless, no money, carrying around children.....

Steven is pretty aware that he made his mom suffer a lot with all the problems he brought home when he was a kid. He was wild and couldn't be tamed. He lived too much for such a young age. He was vulnerable and perverted adults out there took advantage of that.

[janrichmond]

Is Pitman gay? Off topic i know  

 

Does my profile pic look normal to you guys?I can't see my Slashypoo

Edited April 26, 2018 by janrichmond

[Zoot]

5 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

Does my profile pic look normal to you guys?I can't see my Slashypoo

I can see him

[janrichmond]

Just now, Zoot said:

I can see him

s'ok so can i now  ain't he pretty 

[Tori72]

That is a terrible story. Poor Steven. Why was he such a wild boy in the first place. But anyway. Thanks for telling. I agree that it is always easy to blame the woman, in this case the abusive father would be the first to blame....Still I don’t understand why she had to write that book... Somehow I don’t really like her. Saw her in this interview on the book she did together with Steven... 

Jan, I can see Slashyboy just fine. And yes, he’s especially pretty in your avatar pic. 

[dgnr]

@killuridols, thanks for posting that. Poor Steven, I want to hug him forever  
 

15 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

Is Pitman gay? Off topic i know  

Where is this coming from?  
 

8 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

s'ok so can i now  ain't he pretty 

[Tori72]

I don’t even know what Pitman looks like. He was one of those millions of guitarists Axl had for his cover band. That much I know. 

[triad]

17 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

I don’t even know what Pitman looks like. He was one of those millions of guitarists Axl had for his cover band. That much I know. 

Keyboards & towel, not guitar.  

[janrichmond]

24 minutes ago, dgnr said:

Where is this coming from?  

In all the pics of him i've seen he seems very girly...i thought he may be transitioning like old Bruce Jenner. 

[killuridols]

50 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

That is a terrible story. Poor Steven. Why was he such a wild boy in the first place. But anyway. Thanks for telling. I agree that it is always easy to blame the woman, in this case the abusive father would be the first to blame....Still I don’t understand why she had to write that book... Somehow I don’t really like her. Saw her in this interview on the book she did together with Steven... 

Why was he a wild boy?

According to him, it all started with this feeling of rejection that he felt from his father since the very first moment he was conceived.

He says he could feel from the womb that he was unwanted by his dad and then the guy became abusive with the mother, he witnessed all of that violence.

Also, when he went living with his grandparents, the grandma separated him from the mother and changed his and his brothers names and turned them into Jews.

Deanna remarried to a guy named Mel Adler and had a new baby, which is his younger brother Jamie. Steven and Kenny were adopted by Mel and got his last name as well.

But as Steven was growing up he became wild, at school, at home, he had no control and this guy, his stepfather lost his patience, so they sent him to a foster home from which he escaped.

In a nutshell, I think his behavior is directly related with the lack of a strong father figure in his life. A man that would love him for real, not put up with him. 

Plus, Steven couldn't stay at home anytime, he wanted to be outdoors, in the street, he was too curious and this is how most kids fall prey of perverted and drugs, alcohol, when they spend too much time out without parent's supervision.

I have not read the mom's book... what does it say that it is so bad? 

[Alja]

What each and every human being actually need is acceptance for who they are. Plus, a child to be a healthy, balanced personality needs a person, who is just theirs and puts them before everyone else and protects it. It doesn`t necessarily need to be biological parent; here are even people who go to toddlers in foster care and have one kid who is just theirs - once a week or so is enough to child to get a concept and change things until the child gets adopted. For some mothers, if there is new baby born, the older one is pushed away and neglected as uninteresting or whatever - I`ve seen children go wild and uncontrollable because their mom got adorable new baby (an especially with new partner, where the older child is living and demanding ever present reminder of previous partnership) and rejected older one. Or in families with disabled child, where everything is about the disabled one, these "invisible" healthy kids tend to grow problem. They do stupid things to get attention or to fill up the hole where love and acceptance should be. It`s hole in their soul, nothing more, nothing less. Drugs give temporary illusion of that hole being filled.

Child is reactive and mirroring and it`s not wise about eventual damage it does with it`s behavior to adults. That`s why adults should be adults and control it and change patterns. But it`s more simple to get rid of problem child when they can`t cope with their own sh*t,  isn`t it?

It`s different when the child is like junkie, parents cut themselves, but make themselves available if child asks for help (Izzy`s family also helped him when he quit drugs). It`s keeping that feeling that at the end of the day, someone is loving you and waiting.

Child also needs stability and changing names and housings without letting the child understand reasons is confusing and harming.

There can be other member of family or even very near not blood related person available to provide unconditional love and acceptance, when it doesn`t come from actual parents. Most of the time it`s grandmother`s role, but can be basically anyone. If you ask people, many of them grew nurtured rather with grandparent`s love. Father`s figure can be replaced with any other man figure in household, like uncle. There are matriarchal communities where all men in household are women`s relatives - and kids are perfectly OK. Even mother`s, especially if biological mother is dead or abusive.

 So, if there`s violence and abuse and there is no one to stop it, the child feels it. All it wants is to protect mom and end it and fails. In all this craziness, mother can still prefer partner - and leaving children neglected or being abused to maintain relationship in any price.

Children crave for biological mother`s love even if she rejects them, they would do basically anything to depth of let themselves being abused to feel being loved by their mother, even adopted ones who grew up in stable family with strong parent figures and love, they can leave anything behind. 

They never go as crazy for (biological) father, to say. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Alja

[Tori72]

9 hours ago, triad said:

Keyboards & towel, not guitar.  

8 hours ago, killuridols said:

Why was he a wild boy?

According to him, it all started with this feeling of rejection that he felt from his father since the very first moment he was conceived.

He says he could feel from the womb that he was unwanted by his dad and then the guy became abusive with the mother, he witnessed all of that violence.

Also, when he went living with his grandparents, the grandma separated him from the mother and changed his and his brothers names and turned them into Jews.

Deanna remarried to a guy named Mel Adler and had a new baby, which is his younger brother Jamie. Steven and Kenny were adopted by Mel and got his last name as well.

But as Steven was growing up he became wild, at school, at home, he had no control and this guy, his stepfather lost his patience, so they sent him to a foster home from which he escaped.

In a nutshell, I think his behavior is directly related with the lack of a strong father figure in his life. A man that would love him for real, not put up with him. 

Plus, Steven couldn't stay at home anytime, he wanted to be outdoors, in the street, he was too curious and this is how most kids fall prey of perverted and drugs, alcohol, when they spend too much time out without parent's supervision.

I have not read the mom's book... what does it say that it is so bad? 

Thanks again. I feel for him. Troubled youth, all those endings and violence in his young days....

I haven’t read her book. It was just a gut feeling when I saw her in that interview.

9 hours ago, janrichmond said:

In all the pics of him i've seen he seems very girly...i thought he may be transitioning like old Bruce Jenner. 

He looks like Baz with red hair. 

[killuridols]

3 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Thanks again. I feel for him. Troubled youth, all those endings and violence in his young days....

I haven’t read her book. It was just a gut feeling when I saw her in that interview.

Yeah... 

That's why I get mad when people talk shit about Steven in such a careless way, as if what happened to him didn't have roots and it was entirely his fault for not straightening up.

When you don't have structure in life you will hardly know what's right, what's wrong and what's a good choice for your life. Even more if you live in an environment of vulnerability where lots of other people are waiting in line to catch an easy prey.

This structure get formed in your early years and your parents are responsible for it (or any other adult in charge). 

So, I agree with @MillionsOfSpiders that Steven and Axl have many similarities in their origins and family background. What we don't know if they ever spoke about this to each other.... We know Axl told everything to Slash, but I doubt he opened up to Steven the same way and I doubt Steven ever told these things to Axl.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Something compelled Axl to give up a days pay when he was flat broke and hungry to watch over Steven when he was ill in hospital. 

[Asia]

Quote

He says he could feel from the womb that he was unwanted by his dad

He apparently did talk to Axl too much, after all.

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Something compelled Axl to give up a days pay when he was flat broke and hungry to watch over Steven when he was ill in hospital. 

To be fair to Axl, I think he's understood Steven was seriously ill much better than some of his fans do.

Axl has wished Steven to recover from all his problems and to do well in life. He's never called him retarded or any other degrading words.

Axl seems to have a lot of respect for people who have battled with drugs. Probably this is because some of his best friends lost that battle, like Shannon and West 

[Alja]

Caring ultimately has no rational background or any kind of understanding behind; you can do it because you know that it`s nice to do so or you can get further benefit from it or whatever, but in its honest form you cannot tell what drives you. It can be even total stranger or someone you regularly have nothing to talk about. It`s just click, you have gut feeling that you should do something for particular person. Some people have this intuition stronger than others and it`s not something you would do from a rational decision or because someone asks you to or it`s some kind of VIP and it behooves, this never works.

I think if you ever asked Axl why, he couldn`t answer.

Sometimes it can be trivia, like holding hand or just sincere attention, people don`t like to be abandoned in alien places and ICU is a freaking weird place (hospital feeling squared). 

Ultimately, people who have certain something, who fight their fights any you perceive they do their best and maintain nice and humble, they always get extra care, just because it feels good to be in their presence. 

[Georgina Arriaga]

Lovely man