GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Padme]

14 minutes ago, killuridols said:

It's hard for women to be like Sex Pistols, so that comparison is a bit unfair. The women who made it in rock did as much as they could in an industry plagued by sexism and patriarchy.

And that's why I said Grace and Francis have to be realistic. If they want to make a name of their own. They have to be Lady Gaga, Britney Spears and the likes

[Natty]

2 hours ago, Padme said:

And that's why I said Grace and Francis have to be realistic. If they want to make a name of their own. They have to be Lady Gaga, Britney Spears and the likes

if they are talent free... they just should choose another profession...

[Scream of the Butterfly]

14 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It does feel really bad slating her band because she is just a kid, but you are right, they really are awful....I watched some of Duffs IG story of her show and I felt like cringing too, when she pulls that psycho face and then rolls around on the stage - it’s like watching someone who is still in a high school drama class. 

Her voice is not good either. She really can’t sing, at all. 

How old is she? I'd feel bad about slating her band if she was 5 years old. When it comes to teenagers, especially a rich and privileged teenager shamelessly riding on her father's success, I don't understand this major need to pamper them and protect them from any disappointment. Maybe being told that her band sucks is just what she needs to add a hint of genuine punk to her character.

[Tori72]

27 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

How old is she? I'd feel bad about slating her band if she was 5 years old. When it comes to teenagers, especially a rich and privileged teenager shamelessly riding on her father's success, I don't understand this major need to pamper them and protect them from any disappointment. Maybe being told that her band sucks is just what she needs to add a hint of genuine punk to her character.

No idea how old she is but she is not older than 18, if at all. Not a child but still very, very young. I’m torn. I think they need to hear some truth but I also think they have the right to grow and develop in peace. BUT again they put themselves out there, not playing clubs and learning... So... 

If they find an audience and people who like them, that’s fine. The crowd didn’t seem to be big though.

I think Francis is really talented - from the little clip I saw. I’d hope to hear more from her.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Tori72

[Politania]

19 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

No idea how old she is but she is not older than 18, if at all. Not a child but still very, very young. I’m torn. I think they need to hear some truth but I also think they have the right to grow and develop in peace. BUT again they put themselves out there, not playing clubs and learning... So... 

If they find an audience and people who like them, that’s fine. The crowd didn’t seem to be big though.

I think Francis is really talented - from the little clip I saw. I’d hope to hear more from her.

Grace might be 21

[Tori72]

1 minute ago, Politania said:

Grace might be 21

"Might be“ means what exactly?

[Lio]

17 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

The crowd didn’t seem to be big though.

She was the opener and the venue was hell to get into. Many people waited hours to get in. Not saying else it would've been full house, but there would've been more people in if everything had gone more smoothly. It was a disaster getting in. We got there by 4, but it was nearly 6 when we finally got inside.

Grace turns 21 in August.

[killuridols]

I thought she was 19 but if she's heading 21 then she needs to grab the bull by the horns at this point 

[Politania]

29 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

"Might be“ means what exactly?

Sorry. I didn't realize what I wrote.  I think she is 21

[annabanana]

2 minutes ago, Politania said:

Sorry. I didn't realize what I wrote.  I think she is 21

She's turning 21 in August, does her band play any other big gigs without gnr being involved? 

[Politania]

1 minute ago, annabanana said:

She's turning 21 in August, does her band play any other big gigs without gnr being involved? 

thx. I really dont know. I dont pay attention to her band. Not my cup of tea

[Blackstar]

Yeah, I remember from Duff's book that Grace was born just after he left GnR, so that makes her 21.

There are very few examples of children of famous musicians who managed to have an acclaimed career in music (things are a little better for actors/actresses). In this respect, having successful musicians as parents, in particular ones who are actively involved in promoting their kids' career, may even be a curse, because these kids are judged more harshly.

I don't know if Grace has defined her music as punk, but it's more like this 80s new wave/pop punk repackaging thing with a "contemporary" sound.

But regardless of what it is, and even of the amount of talent involved, I see this same problem in many bands I've randomly listened to in the recent years, especially those who don't play basic "rawk" but try to do something with "personality" and "attitude": they are not believable, even if they don't have famous parents to push them and they're honest about loving what they're doing. That's because there are no circumstances to be really "punk" today as well as the conditions for a real "scene" like in the past. You may try to be "punk" or a hippie or whatever and adopt a respective lifestyle and attitude, but it's just a lifestyle and attitude, it's not real; you can emulate a musical style or be influenced by it but you can't reproduce a reality you've just heard or read about.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

6 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

That's because there are no circumstances to be really "punk" today as well as the conditions for a real "scene" like in the past. You may try to be "punk" or a hippie or whatever and adopt a respective lifestyle and attitude, but it's just a lifestyle and attitude, it's not real; you can emulate a musical style or be influenced by it but you can't reproduce a reality you've just heard or read about.

To me this is the key point: the global context and state of things.

We have to think in which context Punk and rock surfaced. People used music to rebel against the status quo, against the war, against oppressive regimes and oppression in general.

Nowadays, people use social media to manifest themselves. Computers. Smartphones. YouTubers are the new rockers of the era. Kids are more visual than musical in today's world.

And it's not like we don't have injustices to fight against. We have Trump, we have immigration problems, we have feminism rebelling against patriarchy more than ever, we have ecological problems...... We have lots of shit to sing about but people prefer to make meme's when it comes to being creative 

So I don't know how we are going to get out of it..... There's a withdrawal going on and everything's a niche now because people do not share things anymore. You don't even watch tv together anymore, each person has their own screen and most entertainment has become an individual experience.

[tifalucis]

18 hours ago, killuridols said:

Maybe I was right, the cup will go to an underdog

I feel bad for Argentina. I love Barca, I like Leo, but compare to CR7, he doesn’t have strong leadership. This is the part that he can’t do better. His weak leadership + nut-job of that coach + weak GK and defender, I thought they would do better since Argentina was runner up in 2014. Now I have no idea who to stan for, even Germany’s fate for now seems so bleak 

[killuridols]

3 minutes ago, tifalucis said:

I feel bad for Argentina. I love Barca, I like Leo, but compare to CR7, he doesn’t have strong leadership. This is the part that he can’t do better. His weak leadership + nut-job of that coach + weak GK and defender, I thought they would do better since Argentina was runner up in 2014. Now I have no idea who to stan for, even Germany’s fate for now seems so bleak 

Something is worrying Lio but we don't know what it is 

He's got problems with the justice, Panama papers scandal and his father and brother are a bit shitty. He doesn't seem to have the same mental structure as Maradona had back in the day, even when Maradona had way heavier problems than Lio now..

I will not root for Brazil if they continue ... Germany are the ones I like the most. Then Spain, Mexico, Uruguay, Portugal... if they continue, I might keep watching 

[Blackstar]

18 minutes ago, killuridols said:

To me this is the key point: the global context and state of things.

We have to think in which context Punk and rock surfaced. People used music to rebel against the status quo, against the war, against oppressive regimes and oppression in general.

 

Yeah. And even when that music wasn't revolutionary against all that (and most of the time it wasn't really - it was marketable) there could be something real behind and about it. GnR, for example, weren't revolutionary or anti-establishment, but they had a "no shit given" stance that was real because it came directly from their life experience.

[Tori72]

Speaking of fucking talent. This is soooo wow! Always loved Move to the City in particular. That voice!!!  The guitars, the band singing, the groove. I’m smitten by this version! 

 

OH! And there’s this precious.

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Tori72

[beautifulanddamned]

It's interesting-there's this general belief I think that if we got the Appetite 5 together these shows would feel more genuine- there is a sliver of disconnect now between the band and the songs they are playing. I don't know that the line up would make a difference,though. Appetite was so powerful because it was youth personified and because it was written and performed by a bunch of debaunched gutter rats who were living that life. Out to Get Me is much less impactful coming from a guy who has been a super coddled multi-millionaire for three decades. Duff is no longer Punk as Fuck. 

 

I thought this was interesting, in terms of what an impact a band's persona can make on a live performance:

 

 

Grace is never going to be punk either- it's hard to be a pampered rich "punk" and not seem like a total poser. I don't know that that is Grace's goal anyway- she's not doing punk so much as that pouty, fakey, Instagram-y thing that I don't understand because I'm an old person. There's no depth to her facade and that's understandable because she is 20 freaking years old. I blame Duff and Susan for putting her in the position  of having people yell "nepotism" at her. They should just back off and let her do her thing in clubs for the next 6 months or ten years or whatever. Stop trying to make "fetch" happen.   

[Tori72]

1 hour ago, beautifulanddamned said:

 

I thought this was interesting, in terms of what an impact a band's persona can make on a live performance:

 

WOW!  I didn’t realize until now! Oooops. I’m impressed and also wondering - why is it he can’t have this attitude and stage persona anymore. Is it being pampered for 3 decades (must be). Is it being older and thus moving differently? Is it his ageism from our side? He sounded great in Coachella, that’s for sure. I do think the band was better in 88.

As for Grace and her parents. I am wondering why Duff and Susan push them out into that world so early. 16 is a usual age to start modeling, but why not let their kids grow into adults and into what they do on their own. Why not help a little more in the background? Different approaches to parenting, I guess.

Maybe Grace is doing a thing that will be understood by her age group. Maybe it’s just us. We’ll see.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Tori72

[Georgina Arriaga]

16 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

WOW!  I didn’t realize until now! Oooops. I’m impressed and also wondering - why is it he can’t have this attitude and stage persona anymore. Is it being pampered for 3 decades (must be). Is it being older and thus moving differently? Is it his ageism from our side? He sounded great in Coachella, that’s for sure. I do think the band was better in 88.

As for Grace and her parents. I am wondering why Duff and Susan push them out into that world so early. 16 is a usual age to start modeling, but why not let their kids grow into adults and into what they do on their own. Why not help a little more in the background? Different approaches to parenting, I guess.

Maybe Grace is doing a thing that will be understood by her age group. Maybe it’s just us. We’ll see.

Because he is old? And don't have the same drive? It happens when you are succesful and grow up, you know?  The same can I said about the rest of the guys.

The band is tight, they do awesome shows, is great to see them live....the reviews are pretty strong....everything has to be so negative?

And for Grace, I hate the idea that for Duff she is going to those festivals. But time and the people will judge her durability in the music world. 

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah. And even when that music wasn't revolutionary against all that (and most of the time it wasn't really - it was marketable) there could be something real behind and about it. GnR, for example, weren't revolutionary or anti-establishment, but they had a "no shit given" stance that was real because it came directly from their life experience.

There's got to be a group of people, somewhere, reunited and talking about their lives, their miseries, the politics that affect their lives.

I am sure there is..... there are more people in this world and suffering than rich ass kids...... but where do they put their creativity nowadays?

Definitely not in rock n' roll.... it must be in some other kind of genre

[GuitarFanfromNYC]

@beautifulanddamned love the "fetch" reference! I agree that a band needs to mature through the small venues and skipping that process is not always the best thing for a group. 

I think Grace is just having fun. She got in to college and I guess this is a creative outlet. I don't get the impression that her parents are pushing her but certainly she is getting a hand up. At 21 I knew what I wanted to do professionally but if i gad the luxury of doing something fun and creative instead of getting straight to a career, I am sure I would have. I'll have to wait until retirement to live my rock n roll dreams I guess. I'll be the granny in line for GA at London's shows one day.

 

[killuridols]

Does Grace really go to College?

I have no indications that she's still in school......

@beautifulanddamned I don't understand that video.... is it 2018 audio over 1988 video?

[Alja]

Look, who were punks? They were desperate, disowned by school, society, often their families, kids left to grow alone in desperate, industrial, monotonous environment; kids who were told they have no perspective, who didn`t fee like life is about having a work in a factory day by day, have some kids and leave them grow up in same desperate environment; punks were kids from broken families, where adults were addicted to pills and TV shows and flatness, with their souls bored to death; kids too smart and sensitive not to feel the boredom and emptiness of existence which was offered to them and unable to figure out how to escape it, kids making love from despair, feeling cold and alone anyway, trying drink and drug away that desperate place in the middle of their souls alike that around, kids for whom their music was their moan and their warcry from the deepest bottom of their existence.

World has changed, circumstances have changed since then. Their kids are now late teenagers.

Music industry changed. 

Young lady from nice, loving, higher class family cannot get this punk authenticity.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Well, at least now we know what the smeared lipstick was all about..