GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Padme]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

LM came here to denounce her rape. Many of us supported her version because we believed the story when she first told it

 I don't get why people believed her. As far as I know she claimed to be the girl who was in this alledge incident with Axl. What evidence did she provide? My issue is not with you nor with any other forum member. I think the mods here should've been more careful. I never saw any evidence suggesting she is who she says she is. We can't allow people to come here and tell stories without any proof of their true identity nor any evidence about truthful information. Otherwise sooner or later we might end up in a big trouble. One thing is Slash talking about past events in his book. And another thing is some woman coming here out of nowhere.

 

[killuridols]

31 minutes ago, Padme said:

 I don't get why people believed her. As far as I know she claimed to be the girl who was in this alledge incident with Axl. What evidence did she provide? My issue is not with you nor with any other forum member. I think the mods here should've been more careful. I never saw any evidence suggesting she is who she says she is. We can't allow people to come here and tell stories without any proof of their true identity nor any evidence about truthful information. Otherwise sooner or later we might end up in a big trouble. One thing is Slash talking about past events in his book. And another thing is some woman coming here out of nowhere.

Well, everybody got their reasons to believe her or not. I have mine and as I have always stated, if they had sex with minors, that solely fact constitutes rape, so to me there's not much to be discussed about that.

Now, if she is the same person that was mentioned in the books and magazines or not.... well... that question is valid too. But we are not the police, so we don't have any right to be asking her for evidence of her identity. At least myself, I would feel very akward asking her to show me her ID or something, and that wouldn't answer the question either, because we don't know the name of the person mentioned by GN'R members. So the only way to go about this is to either believe her or not, and that's all you can do

I repeat, we're not the police, we're not lawyers, we're not judges, we're not the justice. Trying to be that is wrong, in my opinion.

And I don't agree that she shouldn't be allowed to post here..... I mean, why? She is an adult now and she's responsible for her sayings. We are not. So how would we end up in a big trouble?
I know I wouldn't. None of us has nothing to do with that.

Slash is no one better or worse than this woman. He's just a famous guitarist in a famous band, but when it comes to law, I want to believe that he's just the same as the rest of the citizens. I don't see how his word is more valid than mine or yours.... that's not how things work...

[Padme]

21 minutes ago, killuridols said:

don't have any right to be asking her for evidence of her identity.

I don't think we can't let any given person to make acussations without knowing who that person is

And the original woman in question had a day in court with Axl. She refused to testify. She didn't help her own case

 Let's assume it was really LM. She was willing to tell us about everything that took place. But she didn't want to tell the judge? The judge could've done something about it. We can't.

Sorry, but I think she is just someone looking for attention or someone with a hidden agenda

[killuridols]

3 hours ago, Padme said:

I don't think we can't let any given person to make acussations without knowing who that person is

What do you need her real name for? Are you some kind of authority? I don't think you can ask for that information. Actually, I think it would be illegal to proceed in that way and you wouldn't get anything from it, because you don't know the name of the original accuser, so you wouldn't have a way to know if it is her or not.

3 hours ago, Padme said:

And the original woman in question had a day in court with Axl. She refused to testify. She didn't help her own case

 Let's assume it was really LM. She was willing to tell us about everything that took place. But she didn't want to tell the judge? The judge could've done something about it. We can't.

Right. But you don't have to be so literal about these things.

LM didn't come here for us to solve her problems. She just wanted to tell her side of the story now that she's got enough strength to talk about it. If she's that 15 years old girl who got abused by Axl under those circumstances, it is not hard to figure out why  she didn't speak up for herself at the time.

I get it is odd that she chose this forum to open up, a place with a majority of patriarchal male fans and a high rate of patriarchal females, it was sort of naive to think she would find a great amount of support here 

3 hours ago, Padme said:

Sorry, but I think she is just someone looking for attention or someone with a hidden agenda

Looking for attention?..Maybe... Doesn't she have a book coming up? 

A hidden agenda? .. like what? Money? Pff, lol, there's no way she'd get any money from this. Too much time has passed, she's not Steph nor Erin and she would need a very powerful assmble in order to make the world of rock stumble. But rock is dead right now, so her timing is wrong from the beginning.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

8 hours ago, Padme said:

 I don't get why people believed her. As far as I know she claimed to be the girl who was in this alledge incident with Axl. What evidence did she provide? My issue is not with you nor with any other forum member. I think the mods here should've been more careful. I never saw any evidence suggesting she is who she says she is. We can't allow people to come here and tell stories without any proof of their true identity nor any evidence about truthful information. Otherwise sooner or later we might end up in a big trouble. One thing is Slash talking about past events in his book. And another thing is some woman coming here out of nowhere.

 

Don't you think people like Raz Cue would recognize if she wasn't the person she said she was? She has posted pictures of herself on her social media. Michelle Young also mentioned her. Somebody thought Michelle Young was the Michelle in question. She replied it wasn't her but another Michelle and that they used to call her Little Michelle. Little Michelle mentioned this forum on her social media, so we know the person on social media and the person who posted here are one and the same. Regardless of whether you believe her version of what really happened, it seems reasonably well established that this is a real person from the band's past.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

So now Izzy was there in the loft of the closet studio - only now he was with the girl that Axl had been fucking in the parking lot and who had stumbled out of the outhouse puking just before Axl had grabbed LM and ripped her clothes off. 

She never really saw him but she knew he was there and he didn’t do anything to stop Axl. He never said anything, he never stopped anything (her words) 

I thought she said when she came here that Izzy was fucked up and sleeping? 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

You're part of the patriarchy.

Definitely not. People can read my post history for their answer to that. 

[alfierose]

Re the identity thing. LM contacted us outside of the forum, we have no reason to believe she isn't the same LM that posts on social media and elsewhere. Beyond that we can't verify anything about her story. Whether anyone here believes her, part believes her or whatever is up to them. The reason we allowed her to post is because if other people (Raz Cue, Slash etc..) are discussing her publicly we felt she has right of reply especially as she was already being discussed on the forum.

[Lio]

Look, if someone tells a different version of a highly spectacular story every five minutes, and if there are obvious things wrong with the story, I am calling bullshit. That doesn't make me patriarchal, that makes me a woman who can think for herself objectively looking at the story and seeing a lot of things that don't end up. And in my experience, if you lie about some things, it's not too farfetched to lie about a lot of things, so I can't believe this story at all. There may be some truth in it, but there's no way of knowing what is true and what not, so I won't bother.

Believing a story just because it's a woman telling it, is plain stupid.

And I've quite honestly had enough of people being called a misogynist or conservative woman because they don't believe this story. It is as what is said, it's very condescending (seriously!!) and I've seen quite a few women in here who listened to the story and made their own mind up about it. Because, yes, women can do that, even if they're on a GNR forum.

This kind of bullshit stories do the female struggle more bad than good, because legit stories will be brushed off.

[Alja]

LM is with high probability a woman/girl messing around the band long enough to get recognized. Story has so many holes and flaws that it seems to me that what she says is a collection of (vague) memories, gossip, information in media and fills that some of which might have happened, some of that might have happened to another people, or her at some another point of her life, some may be made up. Band is back, high in the saddle, some circumstances around Little Michelle might have changed, so she can pass better with the story, or at least she thought that, because her reaction is not what you expect from someone who went through it first person... earn bucks, compassion... who knows? 

Side notes: We process stress differently and in major stress there is one kind of reaction, "dead bug", certain person is somehow depersonalized and seems like normal at first sight, but with more questioning they just blackout and they don't remember most or any of what happened or what you told them; they may seem normal and act normal, eventually function. No tears, no meltdown...

Fourteen years old fallen in love is own kind of force of nature, no brakes, no regrets, it's big, and intense. I have worked in camps many times, if there are teenagers, it usually happens that a 13-15 years old girl has crush on a staff member, usually in age 20-25. In camp you have some lots of mechanisms to recognize the situation and keep it in no harm mode, but I am quiet not sure about bunch of drugged up individuals (mostly men) with their own issues, inexperienced with this specific thing... I also don't think they asked anyone for ID before banging and passing drinks at their place. The teenage girl, like, their love's intense and flattering, they are easy, naive, they stick around, you name it, but for same reasons this little woman can become serious pain in the ass if love of their life doesn't act the way she imagined. The situation is difficult and may go south easily and with nasty ending.

Armchair psychology: Bipolar people don't go through all the emotional scale and back again in 20 minutes, it lasts weeks to months in them, but borderline personalities can change their emotional state in a blink of an eye. Also people under decompensated stress.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Alja

[Padme]

4 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

So now Izzy was there in the loft of the closet studio - only now he was with the girl that Axl had been fucking in the parking lot and who had stumbled out of the outhouse puking just before Axl had grabbed LM and ripped her clothes off. 

She never really saw him but she knew he was there and he didn’t do anything to stop Axl. He never said anything, he never stopped anything (her words) 

I thought she said when she came here that Izzy was fucked up and sleeping? 

LOL!!! Now Izzy as well? 

Just out of curiosity, where were Duff and Adler? 

 

[killuridols]

6 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

So now Izzy was there in the loft of the closet studio - only now he was with the girl that Axl had been fucking in the parking lot and who had stumbled out of the outhouse puking just before Axl had grabbed LM and ripped her clothes off. 

What is this? Did the 3rd part get posted? 

[killuridols]

8 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Michelle Young also mentioned her. Somebody thought Michelle Young was the Michelle in question. She replied it wasn't her but another Michelle and that they used to call her Little Michelle.

Do you have a link or can you post where Michelle Young talked about this? I don't remember.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

9 hours ago, killuridols said:

What is this? Did the 3rd part get posted? 

https://soundcloud.com/user-422086862/littlemichellelives-interview-part-3

To me it sounds like the same story as before with some added details.

9 hours ago, killuridols said:

Do you have a link or can you post where Michelle Young talked about this? I don't remember.

The conversation is two years old but you can see it on Little Michelle's twitter page.

https://twitter.com/LivesMichelle/status/1171840434391285760

[albowhead]

Everything she is saying might very well be true but I'm unclear as to what she wants from this.  The allegations are very serious and disturbing.  So much so that there needs to be some evidence or testimony from someone supporting her story.  

[MillionsOfSpiders]

18 hours ago, Padme said:

LOL!!! Now Izzy as well? 

Just out of curiosity, where were Duff and Adler? 

According to her just after the incident happened her mums boyfriend was called to come and get her and she swore him to secrecy for two weeks because she needed time to think. She says she needed her two weeks. So then after the two weeks the boyfriend told the mum and that’s when the police were called. Slash and Steven started calling to find out what was going on and apparently Slash was beside himself when she told him and they were both sobbing about what had happened to her. 

Duff went round to her house to talk the mum into dropping the charges. He promised they’d get Axl help and he would never hurt a girl again. 

She says she went to work at the Cathouse after this and Slash would cry in her arms about it when she saw him. 

She also replied to me here that she saw Axl quite a few times too and he would practically cry every time he saw her and was heartbroken about what he had done. 

She says she wants to reconnect with them all, meet up and find a happy solution. She’s on Slash’s ig post about the show on Saturday asking to be invited to the show. 

[MaskingApathy]

On 9/13/2019 at 3:02 AM, Sydney Fan said:

"Meegan doesn't mind to show all her teenage love to Slash, despite his nasty words about her on his book."

ive always wondered how slash feels about writing that stuff now.

The book came out more than 10 years ago; I wonder how much of it he still stands by.

On 9/13/2019 at 4:46 AM, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I've often wondered if it isn't awkward for Meegan and Axl to be around one another. She was the one who testified against him in Erin's lawsuit and called him a pig. If I was in Meegan's position, I'd probably continue to hold it against Axl what he did to my friend. Not that I know whether Meegan and Erin are still friends. I thought they had a fallout at some point?

As for Susan and Stephanie, no reason for any awkwardness there as far as I can tell. It would be quite a stretch to suggest that Susan should allow the singer in her husband's band to dictate who she can and cannot be friends with.

Maybe they have made up too.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Why would Gloria Allred say it was too bad she had written some of the story on social media or she could’ve gotten her a settlement? 

How would she know that without even looking what she had been writing? 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

If you want yet another version of what really happened, or just want to cringe, read the comments on the first part of the interview. 

https://soundcloud.com/user-422086862/littlemichellelives-interview-part-1

 

[killuridols]

12 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

The conversation is two years old but you can see it on Little Michelle's twitter page.

https://twitter.com/LivesMichelle/status/1171840434391285760

 Whoah! So Michelle Young seems to remember her? I guess this is the first and only "real" person that we all know too, who could shed a bit of light on the whole thing. Or at least on the part of LM and Axl's relationship 

5 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

She says she went to work at the Cathouse after this and Slash would cry in her arms about it when she saw him. 

She also replied to me here that she saw Axl quite a few times too and he would practically cry every time he saw her and was heartbroken about what he had done. 

Sometimes I don't know how to take this kind of stories.... It all seems out of character to me but at the same time, what the hell I know? 

None of the GN'R members talked good about her, not then, and Slash in his book written many years later, neither. However, if I had to guide myself by that and I didn't have the visual proof that we have today, I could not believe that Meeghan is dating Slash again. After the way Slash talked about her in his book. So..... who are these people and what's the truth? 😔

My conclusion is that human being are plastic, not rigid. They change all the time, according to circumstances. Even though patterns are always at the base of behavior, a person will not always act according to their personal pattern.

5 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

She says she wants to reconnect with them all, meet up and find a happy solution. She’s on Slash’s ig post about the show on Saturday asking to be invited to the show. 

This is another part that I can't fit in my mind 

If something like that had happened to me, I would never want to meet or see those dudes ever in my life.

Why?

She says Duff is a hypocrite for writing that song about the #metoo movement. She says that song is about her and Axl ..... Duff has already blocked her on Twitter, yet she still wants to see him and be buddies again?

4 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

If you want yet another version of what really happened, or just want to cringe, read the comments on the first part of the interview. 

https://soundcloud.com/user-422086862/littlemichellelives-interview-part-1

OMG 

That one read the quotes and the books, then mixed it with her blunt misogyny and spewed it in those comments.

The funniest part is where she says ALL (yiss, all) of Axl's relationships ar well documented by the press 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

 Whoah! So Michelle Young seems to remember her? I guess this is the first and only "real" person that we all know too, who could shed a bit of light on the whole thing. Or at least on the part of LM and Axl's relationship 

Raz Cue also remembers her:

https://www.razcue.com/single-post/2019/06/29/An-open-letter-to-Duff-McKagan

https://www.razcue.com/single-post/2019/07/02/I-was-wrong

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

OMG 

That one read the quotes and the books, then mixed it with her blunt misogyny and spewed it in those comments.

The funniest part is where she says ALL (yiss, all) of Axl's relationships ar well documented by the press 

I thought the funniest parts were:

"Though only 23 then, basically a Teen himself, Axl never sought people in her age range." and

"Everybody watched her rape Axl with her hands stuck down in his pants fondling his privates,THE WHOLE WAY HOME."

Why didn't anybody help the poor guy?! 

[killuridols]

7 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Raz Cue also remembers her:

https://www.razcue.com/single-post/2019/06/29/An-open-letter-to-Duff-McKagan

https://www.razcue.com/single-post/2019/07/02/I-was-wrong

I've read Raz before but for some reason, his word doesn't have too much value to me. Didn't this happen when Vicky Hamilton was the manager?

In my view, Michelle Young would pay attention to a particular girl much more than a guy would do.

11 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I thought the funniest parts were:

"Though only 23 then, basically a Teen himself, Axl never sought people in her age range." and

"Everybody watched her rape Axl with her hands stuck down in his pants fondling his privates,THE WHOLE WAY HOME."

Why didn't anybody help the poor guy?! 

Yes yes!! Those are the cringiest parts!! 

After reading that crap, this image came to my mind:

[MaskingApathy]

On 9/14/2019 at 5:47 AM, Oldest Goat said:

Okay so just to be clear any apparent facts were already publicly known and she's suddenly claimed on the internet it's her aka latched onto them - with zero evidence. She's said if you question her/don't believe her then you must be a bad person and oh yeah she's writing/selling a book. She doesn't even have a single photo of herself with anyone from GNR because she supposedly destroyed any sliver of proof she ever even knew them let alone was like their family.
 

Yeah the fact that she doesn't have any pics or anything of herself with any of the band members is a little suspicious. Even Barbi and Pamela have stuff from back then.

On 9/14/2019 at 6:21 AM, Padme said:

There wasn't ZERO evidence. Axl went to trial. Slash talked about this incident in his book. In the begining this girl acussed him too. I don't remember all the details. But Slash says Axl and this girl had sex. And she happens to be underage at the time. Did Axl know she was underage? I don't know. And maybe Axl didn't know that either at the time.

I didn't hear this woman recent comments about this event in the past. So I don't know what she claims now. But the incident with this girl happened because Slash talked about in his book.

Is this the same event that Slash talks about in his book? I thought in the other thread someone said that this may have been another incident, different girl.

On 9/14/2019 at 6:49 AM, Blackstar said:

I generally want to take into account all the available versions and sources, and also look at each case separately, before I pass judgement on anything (unlike, for example, some MJ fans who refused to watch the documentary).

So, even though I'd read her side of the story on her social media and here on the forum, I listened to the audio interview too (the parts that have been uploaded so far). I've noticed that there has been a "progression" in her story, with parts of it being altered each time and new things being added. This is the case with the audio interview too and the story is also "enhanced" with more sensational details. The description of the miscarriage scene sounded like something beyond the realm of possibility. It sounded fictional. Even if the rest of her account could be considered plausible in theory - although it's not backed by any evidence for the most part and is contradicted by other accounts - this part just couldn't be. There are other things that don't add up, but this is just too much.

I also don't find her stated motive for opening up about it now very convincing.

Moreover, there is an obvious political agenda behind some of the "support" she gets, including her "interviewer".

All this has made me very skeptical (to put it mildly).

I believe the part of the story that is known from other sources for years (that she was thrown out naked). This is bad in itself, but it's still not forcible rape and it's an old story that we all knew. 

I can feel sympathy for the part I believe as true, but on the other hand I can't condone making up stuff to make someone look worse than they were or for whatever other reasons.

Same. I'm fully sympathetic if it's true but we don't know that this woman is the same person as the girl from way back then. There's nothing to confirm that, no photos or anything. Although if Michelle Young recognizes her then that gives it some credibility.

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, MaskingApathy said:

Yeah the fact that she doesn't have any pics or anything of herself with any of the band members is a little suspicious. Even Barbi and Pamela have stuff from back then.

Yeah, well, there aren't any photos of Jesus yet so many people believe in him

lol, sorry

1 hour ago, MaskingApathy said:

I thought in the other thread someone said that this may have been another incident, different girl.

I said I was confused by the way the bandmembers described her, some called her "psycho chick", others "hippie chick" and other times they talked about some "DIO boots girl" but there is one constant in all the stories and that is that Axl and Slash were chased by the police because they were accussed of rape by a minor.

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

Same. I'm fully sympathetic if it's true but we don't know that this woman is the same person as the girl from way back then. There's nothing to confirm that, no photos or anything. Although if Michelle Young recognizes her then that gives it some credibility.

In my opinion, the focus on whether she was "around" the scene at the time and really knew people and places, as if it's crucial or consists enough proof for her claims, is a wrong one.

It seems that she was around - and maybe she really knew the band - like many other people at that time. Does this alone make her story true, though? I don't think so. Raz Cue and Michelle Young confirm only as much, i.e. that they remember her and her mother from the Gardner place. They haven't confirmed anything else. Raz Cue hasn't confirmed that she was close to the band as much as she claims or that she dated Axl like she claims. The only other thing in Raz Cue's post on his site (besides that she was "around" at Gardner) is his brother's account, which basically is the same story that has been known for years from other accounts. It's not the story she tells and doesn't support her claim of forcible rape.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Blackstar