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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

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29 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

You don’t think any part of that story sounds at all suspicious? (and don’t mean the Axl being aggressive part) - I mean other things - you don’t think any of it sounds just a little bit like fantasy?

I hate to be that person - but I sure as hell do!

That's such a famous 'incident', that became part of the story of the band and I was always keen to hear the other side. 

I don't swear by her words. As I never did by Axl's and Slash's version either. The truth might be somewhere in between, I don't know closer to which version.

And that's the problem with most sexual assault allegations and why they get dropped; because it's so difficult to be sure /to proof :shrugs:  

Having said that, some parts of the story I definitely find harder to swallow (like the reactions to the pregnancy and how the miscarriage happened... :suspicious:)

Edited by GingerHair
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@GingerHair I should add, if you don’t already know, she has an account here and has posted before. Which makes me a bit cautious as to what I want to post but then she is putting the story out there :shrugs:

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Idc what anyone says...Why is this posted here, in WOMEN's thread ? Why is it posted at all? We heard it all before, from Little Michelle herself. We discussed it already. What's the frikkin' point ? 

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The audios were new to me and I'm glad to have had access to it. But I have no interest in introducing a discussion that the person involved can do/has already done by her behalf. 

If someone else wants to listen to it, they can look up or I don't mind to share it in private.

 @MillionsOfSpiders, thanks for drawing my attention.

7 minutes ago, Minche said:

Idc what anyone says...Why is this posted here, in WOMEN's thread ? Why is it posted at all? We heard it all before, from Little Michelle herself. We discussed it already. What's the frikkin' point ? 

This is posted here because this is a GNR forum and the topic is GNR related. It is posted in this thread... well, because it was the thread where I wanted to post it!!

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I believe she's most likely telling the truth but would love to be proven wrong.

Parts of the story have been confirmed by other people. At least the part that Axl ripped her clothes off and threw her out naked and that she was just 15 while Axl was 23. That alone is bad enough and makes her status as a victim valid IMO. Unfortunately, I don't find it hard to believe that the part about forcible rape is also true.

14 minutes ago, Minche said:

Idc what anyone says...Why is this posted here, in WOMEN's thread ? Why is it posted at all? We heard it all before, from Little Michelle herself. We discussed it already. What's the frikkin' point ? 

Where should it be posted if not the women's thread? We have discussed plenty of topics before. Doesn't mean they can't be discussed again. You are free not to participate.

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Yeah. Though I meant in the sense of speaking and ventilating personal stuff about her boss.

She should not have said those things about her former employer. Sounds unprofessional and like a gossiper.

Keep in mind Axl makes people sign confidentiality agreements. If Axl dies tomorrow maybe that contract becomes irrelevant. I don't know. But just because Axl fires her I don't think she has the right to talk.

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3 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

You don’t think any part of that story sounds at all suspicious? (and don’t mean the Axl being aggressive part) - I mean other things - you don’t think any of it sounds just a little bit like fantasy?

I hate to be that person - but I sure as hell do!

I'm fucking lost O_o

What happened?? Who are you talking about?? :question:

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5 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I'm fucking lost O_o

What happened?? Who are you talking about?? :question:

I was reacting to @GingerHair post in here about the Little Michelle story. I was talking about the doubts I have about some things she said. 

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4 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I was reacting to @GingerHair post in here about the Little Michelle story. I was talking about the doubts I have about some things she said. 

Was it removed? I'm still lost and I can't find her post in the previous pages :facepalm:

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3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Was it removed? I'm still lost and I can't find her post in the previous pages :facepalm:

She deleted it herself, I think. I’m sure she will re-write the detail I was referring to when she comes back - I sent her a pm explaining I didn’t mean to put her off posting :)  

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1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

She deleted it herself, I think. I’m sure she will re-write the detail I was referring to when she comes back - I sent her a pm explaining I didn’t mean to put her off posting :)  

Ok.

After reading the other responses and comments here, I guess I figured out she was talking about the "interview" some guy did with Michelle and was posted on Twitter (or YouTube), I think....

I've not listened to it yet.... Not in the mood to listen to GN'R dramas ATM.... also because I already know the "story" and it seems it has not changed that much since the last time, did it?

4 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I know some people in this thread will think I’m “sick” and anti feminist but I can’t really accept the whole miscarriage story and when I doubt something as serious as that it makes me doubt everything. 

I am one of the rabid feminists here :lol: but I do not think you are sick for having this opinion. You've exposed it in a respectful manner and that's the difference between you and someone "sick".

Michelle's story is not all 100% clear to me either.... even though I do find "sick" that she was hanging out with grown up men at 15, having sexual relationships with them. All adults in charge of her and the ones messing up with her were responsible for how she ended involved in the "incident" with Axl (and allegedly Slash as well).

That part I totally believe it to be true, because in my books, minors can't give consent to sexual relationships. And if they do, they are wrong. It is the adult person responsability to guide them and say no to their requests.

The pregnancy and miscarriage are the parts of the story that sound untrue to me..... Especially because some stuff she described sound out of character to me (I mean Axl). Like, I don't think Axl was the nice "boyfriend" who wanted a baby with a random 15 year-old girl, or that they were very close and saw each other every day.... :shrugs:

 

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7 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

She deleted it herself, I think. I’m sure she will re-write the detail I was referring to when she comes back - I sent her a pm explaining I didn’t mean to put her off posting :)  

Oh, stop! :hug: You were just informing me of things I completely overlooked. I appreciated it.

One of reasons I like this thread is because the large majority of people are respectful, even when disagreeing, and can build arguments. B-)

I deleted the post because, if it was already largely discussed before, it didn't serve my purpose when posting it. I will catch-up on discussion already done. And also I am not comfortable with the fact people might be watching their back because Little Michelle might be sneaking in here. There is less fun to that.  

5 hours ago, killuridols said:

Ok.

After reading the other responses and comments here, I guess I figured out she was talking about the "interview" some guy did with Michelle and was posted on Twitter (or YouTube), I think....

Yes, it was the first 35 min of a phone interview with Little Michelle. 

If you don't want drama, you do well in skipping it. It's fuck'g drama beginning to end. :cry:. I enjoy drama though. :lol:

 

I always give the benefit of the doubt to the victim when there in a case of sexual assault, rape, domestic violence. There is no glamour in being on this position. Your personal life will be scrutinised, people will judge your behaviour, clothes, friends, habits, social media accounts, etc, etc, etc. But only by being 15 y.o., be living a street life and then being thrown out naked in the middle of the night in front of a lot of people... she has my full solidarity. 

I'm much less convinced about the reactions to the pregnancy and whole miscarriage episode but, I won't extend myself before looking what was already discussed in the previous thread.

By my counting, that is the 3rd woman who claim to have naturally miscarried a baby by Axl. :question:

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9 hours ago, killuridols said:

The pregnancy and miscarriage are the parts of the story that sound untrue to me..... Especially because some stuff she described sound out of character to me (I mean Axl). Like, I don't think Axl was the nice "boyfriend" who wanted a baby with a random 15 year-old girl, or that they were very close and saw each other every day....

It didn't make sense for Axl to want a child with Erin, either, considering how dysfunctional that relationship was and that he had only recently said in an interview that he didn't want children at the moment. Yet he apparently had a very strong reaction to that miscarriage as well.

There are a lot men who don't realistically want children and have no realistic understanding of what being a parent involves. That doesn't stop them from going crazy when a woman miscarries or, god forbid, has an abortion. Axl was a young man with religious background and most likely very much against a woman's right to choose. If he as much as suspected that Michelle had "killed his baby", it wouldn't surprise me if he responded with violence totally regardless of whether he had initially wanted the baby or not.

If other parts of Little Michelle's story are true, I don't understand why she would make up the part about the pregnancy and miscarriage. If she has a legit story to tell about a crime that was committed and is hoping for acknowledgement from members of the band, why would she ruin it with some bs story about a pregnancy that never happened?

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9 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

If she has a legit story to tell about a crime that was committed and is hoping for acknowledgement from members of the band, why would she ruin it with some bs story about a pregnancy that never happened?

Because it clearly isn't legit(zero evidence) and there's lunatics in the world, mystery solved.

This total stranger Michelle went on the internet -a fan forum of all places- and said people who don't believe her are bad people. Fuck that and fuck her; even if it were true tbh. The audacity.

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1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

It didn't make sense for Axl to want a child with Erin, either, considering how dysfunctional that relationship was and that he had only recently said in an interview that he didn't want children at the moment. Yet he apparently had a very strong reaction to that miscarriage as well.

There are a lot men who don't realistically want children and have no realistic understanding of what being a parent involves. That doesn't stop them from going crazy when a woman miscarries or, god forbid, has an abortion. Axl was a young man with religious background and most likely very much against a woman's right to choose. If he as much as suspected that Michelle had "killed his baby", it wouldn't surprise me if he responded with violence totally regardless of whether he had initially wanted the baby or not.

If other parts of Little Michelle's story are true, I don't understand why she would make up the part about the pregnancy and miscarriage. If she has a legit story to tell about a crime that was committed and is hoping for acknowledgement from members of the band, why would she ruin it with some bs story about a pregnancy that never happened?

A few things here. According to Erin's interview in People Magazine she wanted to be pregnant. She thought a baby would help Axl to change. It wasn't something they planned.

Axl was into religion when was a kid. But as teen and young adult he hated religion. I don't know how he feels about abortion. But religion in not a issue that matters to him

About this girl alledged rape. According to Slash book, he says he talked to her but nothing more. He did say however that Axl had sex with her. And only Axl standed on trial but I don't know what happened. For sure Axl didn't spend 10 years in jail. Was it rape? She was underage. So the mere fact she was underage makes it rape despite a possible concent from her part. Was she pregnant with Axl's child? Impossible to know since there is no blood test or DNA test and no baby as far as I know.

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4 minutes ago, Padme said:

A few things here. According to Erin's interview in People Magazine she wanted to be pregnant. She thought a baby would help Axl to change. It wasn't something they planned.

Axl was into religion when was a kid. But as teen and young adult he hated religion. I don't know how he feels about abortion. But religion in not a issue that matters to him

About this girl alledged rape. According to Slash book, he says he talked to her but nothing more. He did say however that Axl had sex with her. And only Axl standed on trial but I don't know what happened. For sure Axl didn't spend 10 years in jail. Was it rape? She was underage. So the mere fact she was underage makes it rape despite a possible concent from her part. Was she pregnant with Axl's child? Impossible to know since there is no blood test or DNA test and no baby as far as I know.

Slash said Axl fucked an underage girl and that girl was 'Little Michelle'?

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4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Slash said Axl fucked an underage girl and that girl was 'Little Michelle'?

There are no names, but he talked about the rape case. She says it was her.

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27 minutes ago, Lio said:

There are no names, but he talked about the rape case. She says it was her.

Okay so just to be clear any apparent facts were already publicly known and she's suddenly claimed on the internet it's her aka latched onto them - with zero evidence. She's said if you question her/don't believe her then you must be a bad person and oh yeah she's writing/selling a book. She doesn't even have a single photo of herself with anyone from GNR because she supposedly destroyed any sliver of proof she ever even knew them let alone was like their family.

What a crock of shit. Not saying more on this because it's fucking mindnumbing.

If there weren't liars then the notion of "Believe all women. Believe every victim." wouldn't be an obvious impossibility in the real world; and real victims wouldn't inevitably go unheard. This is why I don't care that some will find me blunt as I cut to the chase and say what most are too polite to put plainly.

Edited by Oldest Goat
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2 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

It didn't make sense for Axl to want a child with Erin, either, considering how dysfunctional that relationship was and that he had only recently said in an interview that he didn't want children at the moment. Yet he apparently had a very strong reaction to that miscarriage as well.

Whether it made sense or not, they both wanted children together. Axl did an interview that year and mentioned the names they’d picked out. 

I agree that Axl had a profoundly limited understanding of family/parenting , though he obviously wanted it (see his obsession with Dylan). 

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13 hours ago, killuridols said:

I've not listened to it yet.... Not in the mood to listen to GN'R dramas ATM.... also because I already know the "story" and it seems it has not changed that much since the last time, did it?

 

Some of the details are a little different now - like here she said when Axl came back from Indiana she went to talk to him about the baby which Slash had already told him about because he said “you’re pregnant” and she said “I was” which seemed to be a trigger. 

Now she says she went to confront him because he had fucked one of her friends and then he brought up the baby which Slash had told him about and he knew about the miscarriage too - he still screamed about her killing his baby etc. 

That’s quite a difference in my opinion. 

Maybe not to others though? 

Edited by MillionsOfSpiders
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22 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Okay so just to be clear any apparent facts were already publicly known and she's suddenly claimed on the internet it's her aka latched onto them - with zero evidence. She's said if you question her/don't believe her then you must be a bad person and oh yeah she's writing/selling a book. She doesn't even have a single photo of herself with anyone from GNR because she supposedly destroyed any sliver of proof she ever even knew them let alone was like their family.

What a crock of shit. Not saying more on this because it's fucking mindnumbing.

If there weren't liars then the notion of "Believe all women. Believe every victim." wouldn't be an obvious impossibility in the real world; and real victims wouldn't inevitably go unheard. This is why I don't care that some will find me blunt as I cut to the chase and say what most are too polite to put plainly.

There wasn't ZERO evidence. Axl went to trial. Slash talked about this incident in his book. In the begining this girl acussed him too. I don't remember all the details. But Slash says Axl and this girl had sex. And she happens to be underage at the time. Did Axl know she was underage? I don't know. And maybe Axl didn't know that either at the time.

I didn't hear this woman recent comments about this event in the past. So I don't know what she claims now. But the incident with this girl happened because Slash talked about in his book.

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2 minutes ago, Padme said:

There wasn't ZERO evidence. Axl went to trial. Slash talked about this incident in his book. In the begining this girl acussed him too. I don't remember all the details. But Slash says Axl and this girl had sex. And she happens to be underage at the time. Did Axl know she was underage? I don't know. And maybe Axl didn't know that either at the time.

I didn't hear this woman recent comments about this event in the past. So I don't know what she claims now. But the incident with this girl happened because Slash talked about in his book.

You've misunderstood. I'm saying there's zero evidence/reason to believe 'Little Michelle' and every reason to see it's obviously bullshit. That's 100% the only thing I've been speaking about regarding this subject. 

I'm very aware my musical hero Axl could be a piece of shit or used to be one, for example, if it's true he beat women then I can't respect him as a man. But that doesn't change the fact that 'Little Michelle' has zero evidence and no credibility.

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