SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Len Cnut said: Oh but you’re alright with us into the deep end eh, honestly, you’re like the WW1 generals ‘push on Tommy, we’ll be bringing up the rear’ Funnily enough, although the majority of Norwegians wants us to remain outside of the EU, I have the feeling the majority would still want to have UK remain. So in a sense we believe in a strong EU, we just don't want to be part of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, SoulMonster said: Very few democracies (any?) are designed so that all branches of power is democratically elected. In that sense, none of them are pure democracies. Typically the judiciary isn't, but rather appointed. And the European Commission, although not elected directly, are chosen by people who have been elected. So it is always a question of how many degrees of separation from the voters the governance lies. But very few democracies have a legislator which cannot legislate and a executive which legislates! The whole EU constitution is an utter mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunko12345 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, soon said: @DieselDaisy, Im curious for your opinion of England's House of Lords? Good place to have a kip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 57 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Funnily enough, although the majority of Norwegians wants us to remain outside of the EU, I have the feeling the majority would still want to have UK remain. So in a sense we believe in a strong EU, we just don't want to be part of it The majority of Norwegians are more sensible than you. 1 hour ago, soon said: Their full title should clarify that they aint a house the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Temporal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in Parliament assembled. I was shocked to learn that they have hereditaries. And that the Church of England has an automatic position in your parliament. Like, wtf!!! I gather you are in favour of appointees because they can only really coerce the decisions of the elected body? Here, our Senators are unelected and actually have some legislative power (just a bit more then your house o lords) so I consider it to be a very undemocratic system of 'sober second thought.' But given the difference that the House of Lords only offers revision and criticism, you dont feel they are an undemocratic institution, I guess? The Lords are a bit of a non-issue really considering the primacy of the lower house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: The majority of Norwegians are more sensible than you. To a large extent it comes down to values. I cannot deny Norway survives well outside of the EU. Thanks to our fortune. But to me, it isn't all about profitability and wealth. It is about solidarity, it is about sharing, it is about togetherness, it is about creating something larger than states, it is about security, etc. Values, no right or wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 PS If you go back in this thread there were a couple of posts by me discussing the EU constitution but nobody was particularly interested, not even the ones interested in the EU, so we went back to posting pictures of Tory Totty. Just now, SoulMonster said: To a large extent it comes down to values. I cannot deny Norway survives well outside of the EU. Thanks to our fortune. But to me, it isn't all about profitability and wealth. It is about solidarity, it is about sharing, it is about togetherness, it is about creating something larger than states, it is about security, etc. Values, no right or wrong. What a load of bollocks. That is the sort of waffle EU zealots come out with all the time. There wasn't much ''solidarity...sharing...togetherness'' when they hammered the Greeks, that is certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, spunko12345 said: Good place to have a kip. A kip? Like, the raw hide of a small animal? 1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said: The Lords are a bit of a non-issue really considering the primacy of the lower house. Makes sense. Thanks for sharing. Can the Queen veto the House of Commons? Or do the Lords represent the Queens voice? (also, here we say "the Crown" when in court or whatever. Do y'all say "the Crown" or "the Queen?" in relation to legislative affairs?) Edited May 2, 2019 by soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, soon said: A kip? Like, the raw ride of a small animal? Makes sense. Thanks for sharing. Can the Queen veto the House of Commons? Or do the Lords represent the Queens voice? (also, here we say "the Crown" when in court or whatever. Do y'all say "the Crown" or "the Queen?" in relation to legislative affairs?) Theoretically the Queen can withhold the Royal Assent (to a Parliamentary bill) but it hasn't happened since 1708. So precedent dictates. So much of the British constitution is like that, based around custom and precedent. Edited May 2, 2019 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: That is the sort of waffle EU zealots come out with all the time. There wasn't much ''solidarity...sharing...togetherness'' when they hammered the Greeks, that is certain. Well, it is a lot better than the sort of brown-washed, anti-foreigners, isolationist, egocentric and selfish stuff that I regularly hear from people opposed to the EU. Don't get me wrong, no one is denying that the EU can't be improved, but in my opinion it is much better than "every state for themselves." And again, much better to solve the problems and improve it, than to just abandon it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: Well, it is a lot better than the sort of brown-washed, anti-foreigners, isolationist, egocentric and selfish stuff that I regularly hear from people opposed to the EU. Don't get me wrong, no one is denying that the EU can't be improved, but in my opinion it is much better than "every state for themselves." And again, much better to solve the problems and improve it, than to just abandon it. Well you are not even in the EU yet I wouldn't necessarily describe Norway as isolationist and anti-foreigner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Well you are not even in the EU yet I wouldn't necessarily describe Norway as isolationist and anti-foreigner. I talked about people opposed to EU in general, not necessarily from Norway. Norway's decision was very much founded on the realization that as filthy rich we could afford to stand outside, combined with the type of naive skepticism to Europe you would typically find in countries on the peripheral fringe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I talked about people opposed to EU in general, not necessarily from Norway. Norway's decision was very much founded on the realization that as filthy rich we could afford to stand outside, combined with the type of naive skepticism to Europe you would typically find in countries on the peripheral fringe. Norway is outside the EUCU meaning you can actually make bilateral trade deals with countries, something a country as idiotic as the United Kingdom, historically a trading nation, cannot do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, DieselDaisy said: Norway is outside the EUCU meaning you can actually make bilateral trade deals with countries, something a country as idiotic as the United Kingdom, historically a trading nation, cannot do. Oh, what I would give for Norway not having to negotiate dozens of separate trade agreements! Oh, were we only part of the EU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: Oh, what I would give for Norway not having to negotiate dozens of separate trade agreements! Oh, were we only part of the EU! Well, luckily for Norway it isn't a country comprising totally of idiots like you. You can be a proud trading nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Norway is actually a wiry operator. You are in the EEA and can negotiate bilaterals. You are not a signatory of the CFP - important for a fishing nation like Norway - and CAP, and are not involved in the EU's legal silliness when it doesn't apply to the EEA. It also goes without saying that you are not a member of the disastrous Eurozone concept. You basically have access to all the benefits of the EU and eradicated most of the drawbacks. Switzerland is ever wirier being that they, despite being in the EFTA, did not join the EEA instead opting for a bilateral relationship with the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: Well, luckily for Norway it isn't a country comprising totally of idiots like you. You can be a proud trading nation. Proud? Why would it make us proud having to waste time and money doing all these deals individually when we could piggyback on existing deals as part of a union? It saves time and is de-risking. I don't see the sense in abandoning reason, I take more pride in doing what is best regardless of tradition and how things were before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, SoulMonster said: Proud? Why would it make us proud having to waste time and money doing all these deals individually when we could piggyback on existing deals as part of a union? It saves time and is de-risking. I don't see the sense in abandoning reason, I take more pride in doing what is best regardless of tradition and how things were before. The EFTA has trade deals with 24 countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Remember when the vikings took control of present day UK only to voluntarily take on the State 'Christianity' of England? I dont but when Im in hotels I have a strange habit of watching Pawn Stars on the History channel And they had a viking coin with a cross on it. Said thats what happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: The EFTA has trade deals with 24 countries. I am very happy we are in EFTA but the EU would be much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, soon said: Remember when the vikings took control of present day UK only to voluntarily take on the State 'Christianity' of England? I am afraid we'd become christians even if we hadn't subdued and conquered Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I am very happy we are in EFTA but the EU would be much better. Wait until May 23rd which will be D-Day for the EU. Ask yourself one question? Why are all these ''EU citizens'' rejecting the EU in voting for Eurosceptic parties, left-wing and right-wing? Clearly there are immense problems. And you want to join? And I expect you may want the Eurozone also. Even many Europhiles believe the Euro to be a colossal mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, DieselDaisy said: Wait until May 23rd which will be D-Day for the EU. Ask yourself one question? Why are all these ''EU citizens'' rejecting the EU in voting for Eurosceptic parties, left-wing and right-wing? Because we aren't as bright as we like to think? Seriously, there will always be dissens and there are real problems with the EU. I don't see the EU unravelling any time soon despite the wet dreams of people like you. D-day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: Because we aren't as bright as we like to think? Seriously, there will always be dissens and there are real problems with the EU. I don't see the EU unravelling any time soon despite the wet dreams of people like you. D-day Mark my words. May 23rd. Alternative fur Deutschland; Die Linke; 5 Star Movement; Le Pen's National Rally; Farage's Brexit Party; the Finns, etc etc. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-election-polls-european-parliament-salvini-orban-conservatives-a8876011.html https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-election/pro-eu-alliance-heads-for-majority-but-eurosceptic-vote-to-rise-eu-election-survey-idUKKCN1RU0SI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Mark my words. May 23rd. Alternative fur Deutschland; Die Linke; 5 Star Movement; Le Pen's National Rally; Farage's Brexit Party; the Finns, etc etc. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-election-polls-european-parliament-salvini-orban-conservatives-a8876011.html https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-election/pro-eu-alliance-heads-for-majority-but-eurosceptic-vote-to-rise-eu-election-survey-idUKKCN1RU0SI You seriously believe there will be a dismantling of the EU from within because of this? That because a bunch of mainly anti-immigration politicians get slightly more power (from 10 to 14%) it will be the D-day of the EU? You are not able to see this is more of a wet dream than rational thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I'm pro-EU and I agree with Soul. The EU is far from perfect, like everything in politics, but instead of running away I rather fix it from within because it can be great, but there are a lot of short-sighted people out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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