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Gracii Guns

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1 hour ago, Graeme said:

This isn't a personal attack on you, but saying stuff like that is unhelpful and only serves to alienate people who would probably otherwise be happy to take a stand against Trump. Nobody is evil because of the colour of their skin or who they're attracted to, that's the whole point. Not straight, white men, nor gay black women (and I'm not just saying this as a straight, white man because I'm worried I'll be perceived as evil)... The difference is that straight white men have suffered far less legal and structural discrimination in terms of their rights to vote, to occupy public spaces, to own homes, to marry who they want to, being free from slavery (etc. etc.) and aren't still struggling to overcome the legacy centuries of institutionalised inequality.

This notion put forward by (particularly) the alt-right that any effort to redress the systemic imbalance that has (in broad general terms) benefited straight white males to a greater extent than anyone else is just as bad as the discrimination that those other people faced in the first place is pretty ridiculous.

In Hollywood movies (the example chosen abover) on average 28% of the speaking roles (not even leading roles) are women, despite the fact they make up 50.8% of the population in the country where those films are produced... Likewise, between 2007-2014, white people played 73% of speaking roles (stats from here https://www.thoughtco.com/diversity-in-hollywood-3026690 ). 

Does anyone seriously think that offering fewer roles to white males is really the biggest tragedy here?

I couldn't care less about Hollywood.

The alt. right is just a bunch of populists. They care about nobody except themselves. I don't believe white males are evil.  What I think is  a big group of white males are being used by these populist politicians. So they believe there is an ellite hurting them and holding them back. Even if that is the case, some politician won't change that.

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1 minute ago, Padme said:

I couldn't care less about Hollywood.

The alt. right is just a bunch of populists. They care about nobody except themselves. I don't believe white males are evil.  What I think is  a big group of white males are being used by these populist politicians. So they believe there is an ellite hurting them and holding them back. Even if that is the case, some politician won't change that.

The Hollywood stuff wasn't really directed at you, it was just because action used it as an apparent example of how terrible discrimination is against white males, because a larger number of films than in the past are starting to have lead roles that aren't white males (despite the fact that, statistically, the overwhelming majority of significant film roles, past and present, have been white males). It's not about denying that there should be roles for white males, of course there should, but there should be roles for everyone else too that actually reflect the way the world is and give a voice to those who are normally marginalised to the extent that hopefully one day we don't have to talk about anybody being marginalised (with the exception of those who choose to try to marginalise people for things about themselves that they haven't chosen).

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10 hours ago, action said:

 hitler had some jewish roots

Not really supported by most serious historians. This speculation comes about because Hitler's father, Alois, was illegitimate and Hitler's paternal grandfather unknown, and that Alois' mother, Maria Schicklgruber, worked in the home of an affluent Jew. 

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the shouting lady wasn't an isolated case. Where the victim in that instant could stand his own, here we have an elder being attacked and pushed to the ground.

respect for elders? gone. there is not much humanity left, in the tolerant left (no pun intended)

and in this video: the shouting lady found another victim (also an elder)

see them laughing when he gets something that resembles an egg thrown at his head. 

my god... that smirk on her face

as someone in the comments said: a non-left opinion is no longer acceptable in the UK and the US. these videos are some proof of that

 

 

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42 minutes ago, action said:

the shouting lady wasn't an isolated case. Where the victim in that instant could stand his own, here we have an elder being attacked and pushed to the ground.

respect for elders? gone. there is not much humanity left, in the tolerant left (no pun intended)

and in this video: the shouting lady found another victim (also an elder)

see them laughing when he gets something that resembles an egg thrown at his head. 

my god... that smirk on her face

as someone in the comments said: a non-left opinion is no longer acceptable in the UK and the US. these videos are some proof of that

 

 

You are not condemning the entire left side of politics because of sone morons actions are you? 

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4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You are not condemning the entire left side of politics because of sone morons actions are you? 

no, hence my use of words "not much"

is this the only thing you have to say, being presented with these facts? Usually, you are more vocal against acts of inhumanity

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Just now, action said:

no, hence my use of words "not much"

What? How does the phrase "not much" in the following statement from you someone not mean you are condemning the entire left side of the spectrum based on the acts of a few: "there is not much humanity left, in the tolerant left". Are you claiming that since you said 'not much' it means there is still some humanity left and hence it wasn't a condemnation? :lol:

What facts have I been presented with? That there are leftist morons? Is that supposed to be revelationary? 

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Just now, SoulMonster said:

What? How does the phrase "not much" in the following statement from you someone not mean you are condemning the entire left side of the spectrum based on the acts of a few: "there is not much humanity left, in the tolerant left". Are you claiming that since you said 'not much' it means there is still some humanity left and hence it wasn't a condemnation? :lol:

What facts have I been presented with? That there are leftist morons? Is that supposed to be revelationary? 

if I meant the entire left side, I would have said "there is no humanity left, in the tolerant left".

So let's stop making this about me, and comment on the video in stead (if you feel, you have something relevant to say about that, at all)

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4 minutes ago, action said:

kudos to you, for ridiculing the linguistic capabilities of a non-native english speaker (my native tongue is dutch)

Sorry but I don't think the problem here is language. 

As for the video, I see no more reason to have to point out how disgraceful that mob is behaving than, say, a man punching a kitten. These are some isolated freaks and they don't represent the left side of politics more than white supremacist fascists represent the right side of politics. Trying to stigmatise the entire half side of the electorate based on the actions of extremists only poisons the discourse. 

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1 hour ago, action said:

the shouting lady wasn't an isolated case. Where the victim in that instant could stand his own, here we have an elder being attacked and pushed to the ground.

respect for elders? gone. there is not much humanity left, in the tolerant left (no pun intended)

and in this video: the shouting lady found another victim (also an elder)

see them laughing when he gets something that resembles an egg thrown at his head. 

my god... that smirk on her face

as someone in the comments said: a non-left opinion is no longer acceptable in the UK and the US. these videos are some proof of that

 

 

Milkshake.

The latest fad from ''the tolerant left'', chucking milkshakes at people they don't agree with.

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23 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Sorry but I don't think the problem here is language. 

As for the video, I see no more reason to have to point out how disgraceful that mob is behaving than, say, a man punching a kitten. These are some isolated freaks and they don't represent the left side of politics more than white supremacist fascists represent the right side of politics. Trying to stigmatise the entire half side of the electorate based on the actions of extremists only poisons the discourse. 

it doesnt represent the entire left side, but it does represent everyone shown in the video, who didn't intervene

(I do love the last sentence of your post though. I agree with that!)

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The thing is, if you are claiming the (far) right are ''intolerant'', ''close-minded'' and ''bigoted'', prone to mob like behaviour and episodes of violence, you have to be whiter than white (no pun intended) on that front yourself. The ''left'' should be seen as the reverse of what they perceive the right-wing to be, tolerant, open-minded, rational - willing to listen and have an open mind.

The hypocrisy is breathtaking. 

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I am more than willing to believe that there are people on the left side of the spectrum, that strongly criticise mob like behaviour as shown in the video.

That's why it's a pity that they never show up on manifestations. It's always the "bad ones" that protest, always leading to violence and opposition of other opinions.

For the sake of balance it's recommended that the big, tolerant, chunk of the left would show up and tell their violent peers they should stop using violence. Bigotted people like myself would then have a hard time giving the impression that it's the entire left that has sympathies for their violent companions.

disclaimer @SoulMonster the last sentence was a joke

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13 minutes ago, action said:

 

That's why it's a pity that they never show up on manifestations. It's always the "bad ones" that protest, always leading to violence and opposition of other opinions.

 

They do show up on manifestations. They do protest in a civilized, respectful way. But they're not that interesting that they'd go viral. It's too boring.

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9 minutes ago, Lio said:

They do show up on manifestations. They do protest in a civilized, respectful way. But they're not that interesting that they'd go viral. It's too boring.

I think I'll join them next time, holding a sign "the left does not tolerate violence against right people".

I'm sure it will go well. I'll just follow the civilised group. What could go wrong?

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8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

The thing is, if you are claiming the (far) right are ''intolerant'', ''close-minded'' and ''bigoted'', prone to mob like behaviour and episodes of violence, you have to be whiter than white (no pun intended) on that front yourself. The ''left'' should be seen as the reverse of what they perceive the right-wing to be, tolerant, open-minded, rational - willing to listen and have an open mind.

The hypocrisy is breathtaking. 

But again, the people in this video doesn't represent the left. Just like it is wrong to look at white supremacist demonstration and conclude on what the right is like, it is wrong to look at these videos and conclude what the left is like. So there is no hypocrisy.

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8 hours ago, action said:

I am more than willing to believe that there are people on the left side of the spectrum, that strongly criticise mob like behaviour as shown in the video.

That's why it's a pity that they never show up on manifestations. It's always the "bad ones" that protest, always leading to violence and opposition of other opinions.

There are no peaceful demonstrations from people on the left (or right)? Are you sure about that?

Have you ever considered that there are, but that videos of peaceful demonstrations rarely get the same media attention as videos of unruly protest marches and fighting? That maybe scuffles and fighting is more newsworthy than ordered marches where everybody behaves? That maybe dishonest people who wants to vilify their political opposition is likely to achieve that by cherry-picking and then claiming this represents the entire opposition?

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21 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

But again, the people in this video doesn't represent the left. Just like it is wrong to look at white supremacist demonstration and conclude on what the right is like, it is wrong to look at these videos and conclude what the left is like. So there is no hypocrisy.

You're rather ignoring various comments by me in which I made it clear that I regard the British left, more the middle class Guardian reading left, have become increasingly prone to (such abusive actions). Being ''increasingly'' prone presupposes the existence of chronology. I then, to demonstrate the correctness of my view, listed multiple recent exempla. Pay better attention next time.

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Boris's trial thrown out as it should. The merest glance at the bus would confirm that the ''£350 million'' in its entirety is not being pledged for ''our NHS'', and that the second sentence is in the subjunctive (jussive) mood: ''let's''. 

Spoiler

brexit-bus-e1511953625149.jpg

Besides, he seems to have cited, rounded down by 11 million, the gross amount of the UK's EU budgetary payments (c. £361 million per week) which is an entirely correct figure. The 1985 rebate (worth about £4.5 billion per year) and public/private sector receipts are omitted which, at best, is ''a convenient oversight''. You do wonder why he didn't just embellish the bus with ''£161 million'' considering, for most ordinary people, there is little difference between ''£350 million'' and ''£161 million'', but by including the rebate/PSRs I suppose a rhetorical point is being made about the EU's control of Treasury, i.e., ''our'', money.

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30 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

In his defence he is certainly no wimp. He seems like a bit of a poster boy for Britain's working class footbally ''lads''.

Listen, I think the mans a cunt and he talks bollocks.  And not in a foolhardy way either, its a calculated hustle, these people sell this idea of being a saviour at the price of donation money to get themselves nice little 5 bedders in the suburbs, its all a big con and loads of lads across the country are taking a bite out of their giro to donate to his mickey mouse cause, I think the mans a ponce in the original sense of the word, as it was applied to pimps in centuries past i.e. someone that gets money out of doing nothing...BUT, having said all that, the man has a right to defend himself and if you're gonna go squaring up to him on the street, givin' it the biggun then he has every right to defend himself, especially if he's out with his kids or his missus.  He has a pretty coarse and objectionable opinion but he has the right to express it and he has the right to walk the streets without being accosted.  I don't necessarily fault people who accost him either, because realistically speaking, when you deliberately go out to attack certain groups, right or wrong, people will pull you up on it on the street.  In an ideal world they wouldn't and perhaps shouldn't but this world is far from ideal.  Fuckin' with a man when he's out with his family is just cowardly though.

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