British Politics

[AtariLegend]

Cried for the austerity and cuts she voted for 16 times.

 

 

[EvanG]

Is Clown Boris really going to be your next prime minister? you keep sinking lower.

[DieselDaisy]

12 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Is Clown Boris really going to be your next prime minister? you keep sinking lower.

He is actually extremely dodgy as a Brexiteer, dodgier than most people realise, Boris. People see him as ''Mr Brexit'' - well, either him or Farage - but he was very Cameron-lite on Europe until the referendum. Despite all the rhetoric about ''ditching under world trade organisation tariffs'' and retaining the 39 billion, I wouldn't be completely shocked if he goes in a Theresa May direction and starts farting around with delays, withdrawal agreements and basically being servile to the EU. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[AtariLegend]

He wrote an article about staying in and an article for leaving at the same time. He only backed leave, because his advisors thought it'd be better for his career to lead leave (then lose) to be seen as a hero.

He didn't actually think leave would win. It was about his career.

I despise budget Trump, but he's a lesser evil than Raab and probably less incompetent than Hunt. Gove's smarter, but he's a British neocon who probably views 1984 as something to aim for.

Don't know why Hunt is running, but he was Grayling-esque as health secretary and made the same kind of blunders Boris did as foreign secretary (with less racism though). Miracle they think Hunt could win an election.

Did watch some of Stewart's speech yesterday. It came across well, with one big downside, the party he talks about doesn't exist. The conservatives are a right wing party where getting to the top is about McCarthyism. What Stewart was talking about has more in common with the Greens than his own party, thus he's a basketcase if he actually believes what he's saying. The membership aka the gammons on question time obessed with political correctness and the war aren't voting for him.

Edited June 16, 2019 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

 

[AtariLegend]

Few thoughts on the 4 debate:

Raab managed to come across more human, just by speaking less than Gove. Raab as usual looked like he was the verge of vomiting at all points, but Gove looked he was on the verge of shouting fake news BBC in a ch4 debate. That stare Hunt did into the camera during the closing statement was creepy.

Gove definitely lost the most on this. Johnson was smart to stay away from this.

There was less bloodletting by channel 4 on the Torries than I expected though. Kris is good, but I bet the candidates wanted assurances Jon Snow wouldn't be there.

Edited June 16, 2019 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

I still don't know how Rory Stewart is a Tory. He epitomises a dweeby Lib Dem remainer. For fuck's sake, go and kill some squirrels and act like a tory.

[bucketfoot]

What a pile of shite that debate was. A bunch of duller, sexless individuals it would be hard to find. Boris did the right thing not lowering himself by mingling with that rabble.

Stewart does have a rather creepy Skeletor quality and that lispy voice is quite amusing.

[DieselDaisy]

British politics is basically selecting a wanker in the vain hope that they're not as big a wanker as the opposing wanker. Can anyone, even Tory grassroots party members, really appoint Boris in the knowledge they're electing a statesmanlike and ministerial persona? Nope. It'll keep Corbyn from No 10 and (hopefully) claw back leave voters from Farage's clutches. Meanwhile Labour chews itself up with antisemitism and Momentum loonies. Time to jettison these two moth eaten parties.

Further, just think, this, has to visit Her Majesty at Buckingham Palace and ask to form a government, 

 

It is rather the equivalent of Trump really, in that it is the ultimate degradation of office. The two are different in that Boris adopts a quintessentially ''English persona'' (say, Mr Pickwick spliced with Winston Churchill) whereas Trump something very American but it is the exact same thing happening, the office being taken over by a caricature. And you have to respect this office historical - Washington, Gladstone, FDR and Churchill.

Yet here we are: the two transatlantic hair-alikes! 

PS

And no, I'm not posting that picture thinking of a ''buffoon''. I actually think Boris is a very clever character construct.

Edited June 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Meanwhile Labour chews itself up with antisemitism 

I am not paying a lot of attention to UK politics but have noticed that Corbyn was accused of antisemitism a while ago. A question to everybody besides Diesel: Is there more to the antisemitism accusations than this or is this just another example of the far-right being hostile to left parties based on their criticism of Israel?

[AtariLegend]

6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I am not paying a lot of attention to UK politics but have noticed that Corbyn was accused of antisemitism a while ago. A question to everybody besides Diesel: Is there more to the antisemitism accusations than this or is this just another example of the far-right being hostile to left parties based on their criticism of Israel?

It's a mix. The tabloids printed some of these articles during the last labour leaders tenure (who was of course Jewish) and some of the same people during Blair's primership. For example a certain MP that quit over (so called antisetism wrote an article for a right wing rag years before they came a Labour MP saying the same thing).

A few MPs that left to form the TIG (change UK) blamed antisetism, however they weren't actually supported by their local grassroots because most of them were abit to the right (I e dropping bombs ect) for a centre left party and more interested in attacking the leadership than the party in power. Thus they faced potentially being deselected (it's complicated as to whether actually would have happened though).

There's a big issue with his stance on Israel. There's a group called Labour Friends of Israel with a bunch MPs on it who are more interested in Israel than anything to do with the UK. One of the most prominent MPs is Margret Hodge who's constantly writing articles for right wing tabloids attacking Corbyn. She presented a dossier on Labour antisetism a while back of supposedly 200 cases of antisetism (which was picked up by the press), 180 of whom had nothing to do with the party saying things on twitter. There was another thing about a thousand plus cases (of the membership aka voters) that were oppended, half of which again had nothing to do with the party and another few hundred were dismissed. However out of the rest, there were some suspensions.

There is also other Labour Jewish groups most prominently Jewish Voice For Labour which basically seems to get dismissed by the Labour Jewish Moment (a lobbiest group) as not real Jews. There's a few different ones, but the Labour Jewish Moment is not a big fan of Corbyn. It's more complicated though. Should point out though that these aren't groups ran by Labour.

That all said, there's a problem with some of the people Corbyn has around him. They keep trying to blame the Zionists and Israel. Then there's people who endorsed Corbyn from the outside like Galloway and Ken Livingstone both of which are basically antisemites.

As for Corbyn himself? Well he liked a Facebook picture where someone was complaining about a mural being taken down. A mural which could be seen to look like it's suggesting that the Jews are the illunati (though it depends on your perception). He also met with hamas years ago while campaigning for a two state solution and spoke at an event where he introduced them as our friends from hamas (paraphrasing). 

Then there's this:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-wreath-row

For further reading there's this, though it's a bit bissased:

http://labourbriefing.squarespace.com/home/2019/2/26/labour-antisemitism-the-truth-behind-the-stats

Edited June 17, 2019 by AtariLegend
Forgive spelling errors, typing on a phone auto correct issues and laziness.

[SoulMonster]

So I am safe to assume that the majority of the criticism stems from mostly just the normal left-side support of Palestinians which is interpreted as antisemitism combined with right-side attempts at vilifying Labour?

Then we have the same, more or less, here in Norway. The left side of politics are more likely to support Palestinians against Israel, but unfortunately this is invariably misunderstood as antisemitism even when it isn't. Additionally, any constructive and legitimate criticism of Israel also tend to be interpreted as antisemitism by the far-right, both because it is misunderstood as such and because it is a cynical way to stifle criticism. Nothing poisons the well of discourse more than accusations of hatred towards Jews.

[Dazey]

15 hours ago, bucketfoot said:

What a pile of shite that debate was. A bunch of duller, sexless individuals it would be hard to find. Boris did the right thing not lowering himself by mingling with that rabble.

Stewart does have a rather creepy Skeletor quality and that lispy voice is quite amusing.

Stewart looks like Eddie Redmayne with AIDS. 

[Len Cnut]

15 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Stewart looks like Eddie Redmayne with AIDS. 

Eddie Redmayne looks like he's got AIDS already.

[Len Cnut]

On 15/06/2019 at 5:34 PM, DieselDaisy said:

Noel Gallagher told us what he thinks of Brexit, Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage, his brother Liam and Morrissey. He didn't hold back

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/music-nightlife-news/noel-gallagher-interview-oasis-brexit-16419197.amp?__twitter_impression=true

He speaks a lot of sense,

 

Morrissey is getting a lot of stick recently for his political stances.  I don't see why, they don't really seem much different from the way he's always been.  Personally I'm not a big one for mixing politics with music, which is a strange thing for such a massive Clash fan to say but there it is.  I prefer the Steve Jones approach to politics and rock n roll, in The Filth and the Fury there's a scene where they talk about how the lads were down to earth and interacted with fans and Rotten goes 'I always talked to fans, in a one to one way like where you from, whats life like for you?'.  Steve, in his infinite wisdom, commented 'I just wanted to get...me dick sucked basically, that was top of the list of priorities, I weren't interested in talking about politics, I didn't even know who the fuckin' prime minister was'  

[bucketfoot]

4 hours ago, Dazey said:

Stewart looks like Eddie Redmayne with AIDS. 

Eddie Deadmayne.

[bucketfoot]

I must admit I was hoping for a WWE-style intervention with the Blonde Bombshell arriving mid-debate, storming the stage and clotheslining Michael Gove.

[EvanG]

I would so watch this

 

[DieselDaisy]

On 6/17/2019 at 5:48 AM, SoulMonster said:

I am not paying a lot of attention to UK politics but have noticed that Corbyn was accused of antisemitism a while ago. A question to everybody besides Diesel: Is there more to the antisemitism accusations than this or is this just another example of the far-right being hostile to left parties based on their criticism of Israel?

Labour are being investigated by Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC)!! To put that in perspective, they're only the second political party to endure that fate, the first being the BNP.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, lukepowell1988 said:

In laymans what is it they have supposedly said and or done?

Where does one begin? This article summarizes, 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party

 

 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, lukepowell1988 said:

Bit lengthily but sounds like they don't like the yids.

It is mostly the Corbynista nutters, Momentum.

[DieselDaisy]

19 hours ago, bucketfoot said:

I must admit I was hoping for a WWE-style intervention with the Blonde Bombshell arriving mid-debate, storming the stage and clotheslining Michael Gove.

What makes it hilarious is this quintessentially English caricature is felling a German and Japanese respectively. Warms the cockles that does. 

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Labour are being investigated by Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC)!! To put that in perspective, they're only the second political party to endure that fate, the first being the BNP.

I will postpone any judgment until a verdict has been reached 

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I will postpone any judgment until a verdict has been reached 

You do realise that part of the reason for the Labour defectors for Change/TIG was the antisemitism, i.e. Labour MPs actually disgusted with the antisemitism in their own party and quitting. Berger was the Labour MP who called out the antisemitism mural, 

https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemitism/Catalogue-of-terrible-incidents-brought-shame-to-Labour-Party-Jewish-MP-581389

 

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You do realise that part of the reason for the Labour defectors for Change/TIG was the antisemitism, i.e. Labour MPs actually disgusted with the antisemitism in their own party and quitting. Berger was the Labour MP who called out the antisemitism mural, 

https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemitism/Catalogue-of-terrible-incidents-brought-shame-to-Labour-Party-Jewish-MP-581389

Sounds implausible to me that a big political party like Labour would be antisemitic. I am sure the majority of it is just people mistaking criticism of Israel as antisemitism and people using such charges as an easy way to hurt the party.