British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Sounds implausible to me that a big political party like Labour would be antisemitic. I am sure the majority of it is just people mistaking criticism of Israel as antisemitism and people using such charges as an easy way to hurt the party.

Well you have Labour MPs claiming so, and defecting, and an investigation by the EHRC. You're clearly are incapable of being convinced on this haha!

 

[SoulMonster]

17 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well you have Labour MPs claiming so, and defecting, and an investigation by the EHRC. You're clearly are incapable of being convinced on this haha!

You think I should be convinced because someone claims they are antisemitic, or because such accusations has led to an investigation but not been concluded yet,, when accusations of antisemitism is being thrown around like confetti these days? Well, I am not that gullible. Not saying that there can't be antisemitic members in the Labour parties (they are everywhere), just that I find it implausible that it is as widespread as you make it sound. I'd be stunned if it was true. But on the other hand, the majority of Brits voted to leave Brexit so nothing surprises me anymore.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You think I should be convinced because someone claims they are antisemitic, or because such accusations has led to an investigation but not been concluded yet,, when accusations of antisemitism is being thrown around like confetti these days? Well, I am not that gullible. Not saying that there can't be antisemitic members in the Labour parties (they are everywhere), just that I find it implausible that it is as widespread as you make it sound. I'd be stunned if it was true. But on the other hand, the majority of Brits voted to leave Brexit so nothing surprises me anymore.

They are not even your type of party, Labour, so I don't understand why you are so determined to defend them. Corbyn is basically a Brexiteer. Lib Dems would be more your cup of tea.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They are not even your type of party, Labour, so I don't understand why you are so determined to defend them. Corbyn is basically a Brexiteer. Lib Dems would be more your cup of tea.

I can defend anyone that I feel are being unjustly accused of something regardless of what I think about them. This hasn't really anything to do with them but being against whatever is unfair or unjust of wrong. When something unfair is happening then that dwarves any antipathies I might have.

That being said, arguing that I find it implausible - while not entirely ruling it out - that the Labour party is guilty of such widespread antisemitism isn't really defending them because the charges are so overblown. It is just taking a neutral position. 

And I have never said there aren't sound reasons to want to leave the EU, I am sure Corbyn wants out for all the right reasons and not because he is an xenophobic little Englander who can't get over the fact that England has become a mediocre nation. What I don't agree with is that in the long-term these negative aspects of the EU outweighs the positives when we look at the totality of the UK. 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I can defend anyone that I feel are being unjustly accused of something regardless of what I think about them. This hasn't really anything to do with them but being against whatever is unfair or unjust of wrong. When something unfair is happening then that dwarves any antipathies I might have.

That being said, arguing that I find it implausible - while not entirely ruling it out - that the Labour party is guilty of such widespread antisemitism isn't really defending them because the charges are so overblown. It is just taking a neutral position. 

And I have never said there aren't sound reasons to want to leave the EU, I am sure Corbyn wants out for all the right reasons and not because he is an xenophobic little Englander who can't get over the fact that England has become a mediocre nation. What I don't agree with is that in the long-term these negative aspects of the EU outweighs the positives when we look at the totality of the UK. 

Corbyn's opinion, if he was honest, on the EU would be much like my own, that it is an undemocratic neoliberal cesspit ran by dodgy bankers and corrupt bureaucrats. 

[Len Cnut]

Quote

And I have never said there aren't sound reasons to want to leave the EU, I am sure Corbyn wants out for all the right reasons and not because he is an xenophobic little Englander who can't get over the fact that England has become a mediocre nation.

For some reason when people say stuff like this my overriding instinct is to give em a fuckin' slap   I should be better than that really, I clearly understand why nationalism is a stupid idea, especially coming from someone like me.  I don't think nationalism has anything to do with it, it just feels like a personal insult.

[DieselDaisy]

15 minutes ago, lukepowell1988 said:

Anyone see this Video of Merkel shaking like a shitting dog?

 

Merkel like a shitting dog? There are limits to pornhub filth.

[SoulMonster]

47 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

For some reason when people say stuff like this my overriding instinct is to give em a fuckin' slap   I should be better than that really, I clearly understand why nationalism is a stupid idea, especially coming from someone like me.  I don't think nationalism has anything to do with it, it just feels like a personal insult.

I wasn't trying to wind you up.

[bucketfoot]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

What makes it hilarious is this quintessentially English caricature is felling a German and Japanese respectively. Warms the cockles that does. 

When he's not sticking it to Fritz he's giving the Japanese what for. It's like he leapt straight from the pages of The Victor. Cracking stuff.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, bucketfoot said:

When he's not sticking it to Fritz he's giving the Japanese what for. It's like he leapt straight from the pages of The Victor. Cracking stuff.

A Japanese school kid moreover. Fell them when they're young and then they'll understand never to mess with Blighty.

[Len Cnut]

25 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I wasn't trying to wind you up.

Oh I understand that Soulie, you weren't even talking to me and I wasn't really even talking about you so much as going off on a tangent about that type of comment and the response it gets from me.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

Oh I understand that Soulie, you weren't even talking to me and I wasn't really even talking about you so much as going off on a tangent about that type of comment and the response it gets from me.

You can take pride knowing you once were an amazing country. That's more than what most of us can say.

[Len Cnut]

12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You can take pride knowing you once were an amazing country. That's more than what most of us can say.

I'm not unreconciled with the idea that we're a shithole, Christ, I been saying that all my life but, to quote John Lennon 'I can slag off The Beatles but don't let fucking Mick Jagger do it'  

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I'm not unreconciled with the idea that we're a shithole, Christ, I been saying that all my life but, to quote John Lennon 'I can slag off The Beatles but don't let fucking Mick Jagger do it'  

Heh, as you know I like you and will have to protest against England being a shithole. It's mediocre. Nothing special. Just another country trying to get by. With fucked up politicians, moronic problems, the same struggles and problems like everywhere else.

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Heh, as you know I like you and will have to protest against England being a shithole. It's mediocre. Nothing special. Just another country trying to get by. With fucked up politicians, moronic problems, the same struggles and problems like everywhere else.

A few thousand less when we get out of the EU.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

A few thousand less when we get out of the EU.

Considering the Brexit farce I suppose EU politicians say the same thing about getting rid of you 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Considering the Brexit farce I suppose EU politicians say the same thing about getting rid of you 

And they'd be doing that. 

The British and continental Europe are just two different people.

[SoulMonster]

23 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The British and continental Europe are just two different people.

Different races you mean? 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Different races you mean? 

No, I said people. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

No, I said people. 

Aren't everybody different people? 

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Aren't everybody different people? 

That is a grammatical and philosophically puzzling statement.

Perhaps the biggest difference between Britain and continental Europe, besides a propensity to admit invading Germans to territories and liking naff Europop, is the two different law systems. Britain uses Common Law, although the Scots have a hybrid. The continent uses Civic Law. It is a fundamental difference. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

That is a grammatical and philosophically puzzling statement.

Perhaps the biggest difference between Britain and continental Europe, besides a propensity to admit invading Germans to territories and liking naff Europop, is the two different law systems. Britain uses Common Law, although the Scots have a hybrid. The continent uses Civic Law. It is a fundamental difference. 

Isn't it rather trivial that there are differences between nations? Here's another difference for you: you speak British English while the rest of Europe speak other languages. 

What is far more interesting is the context in which you decided to stress that the "British and continental Europe are just two different people". Are you saying that continental Europeans are a homogenous group of humans resulting in one group (or for that sake that Brits are a homogenous group?), and are you implying that the differences between these "two groups" are so large that the Brits simply couldn't collaborate with the rest of Europe in an organization like the EU? And are you talking about cultural or genetic differences between these "two groups"?

There is something distinctly 1930s in your way of looking at nationalities, ethnicities, same-ness, national pride, sense of being better, etc.

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Heh, as you know I like you and will have to protest against England being a shithole. It's mediocre. Nothing special. Just another country trying to get by. With fucked up politicians, moronic problems, the same struggles and problems like everywhere else.

Its from a young age I suppose, now I think about it kids never seem to like the envoirnment they’re growing up in, or rather frequently don’t.  Half of punk was about pointing out how shite life in England is/was.

I think Englands fuckin’ amazing though, despite being a shithole, if that makes any sense at all and I fear it doesn’t. 

Out of interest, if England is mediocre, whats exceptional, in your estimation?

[DieselDaisy]

28 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Isn't it rather trivial that there are differences between nations? Here's another difference for you: you speak British English while the rest of Europe speak other languages. 

What is far more interesting is the context in which you decided to stress that the "British and continental Europe are just two different people". Are you saying that continental Europeans are a homogenous group of humans resulting in one group (or for that sake that Brits are a homogenous group?), and are you implying that the differences between these "two groups" are so large that the Brits simply couldn't collaborate with the rest of Europe in an organization like the EU? And are you talking about cultural or genetic differences between these "two groups"?

There is something distinctly 1930s in your way of looking at nationalities, ethnicities, same-ness, national pride, sense of being better, etc.

I am saying that the United Kingdom has had a different historical trajectory from continental Europe. Firstly, we removed serfdom far earlier during the middle ages than the rest of continental Europe, which created a emancipated free peasantry and gentry (governing-middling) class as separate from the ruling ancien régime aristocracy. Europe had to wait until 1789 and aftermath until serfdom was abolished. Secondly, Britain established a form of representative parliamentarianism far earlier than the rest of Europe, by the late 17th century, through which government became vested in an assembly (the House of Commons) and not autocratic-monarchy - again, Europe had to wait until the French Revolution and thereafter. Religious liberty was enshrined far earlier, in the Toleration Act, as was a free press - again, with one or two exceptions - Europe had to wait far longer. Centralising and the birth of ''the nation state'' were also far more advanced with assizes, Justices of the Peace and magisterial courts as a consequence of, firstly the Wars of the Roses which fatefully weakened the English feudal class in terms of importance, and secondly the Break with Rome. All of this meant a nation in which Parliamentary sovereignty, freedom (of speech, against arbitrary arrest, etc) were developed earlier than Europe.

Fourthly, England hasn't been successfully invaded since 1066! Buttressed by the Channel, this entailed a maritime complexion completely different from France, Germany and the rest of Europe. Britain built up a Royal Navy and kept a small standing army. France and Germany created large armies and maintained small Navies. Britain developed a transatlantic-maritime character. Europe developed a continental-border character. Britain escaped the imposition of foreign invasion. Europe has collectively been at war with itself throughout her entire history, whether that be during Louis XIV, Napoleon, Kaiser or Hitler - Britain avoided all of these invasions.

Fifthly, we avoided revolution. We essentially got our revolution over and done with much earlier, 1689-90, which was far more moderate than what occurred 1789 onwards. We avoided the mass societal upheavals of 1789-94, 1848, 1917, etc etc. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

I might also say that Britain possesses allies who are Anglophone and Common Law in the USA, Canada and the antipodes who she looks towards. England also plays cricket. The Europeans have not achieved this height of civility, except for the Dutch a bit. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by DieselDaisy