British Politics

[Padme]

10 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

None of those parties, Greens, Brexit Party, even Lib Dems, will ever form a government except as junior coalition members to either Tory or Labour. It is just how it works here. 

 

I understand. But this is not about forming government. Theresa May was able to form government with her party and DUP. Still when it came to her Brexit plan her own coalition rejected her plan. Because they all wanted a diferent kind of Brexit, or not Brexit at all. It is clear that soft Brexit can't be done. It is full Brexit or not Brexit at all. Then vote for a Party that supports either plain leave or 100% remain. Neither Tories nor Labour can get anything done. If people keep voting for them means running in circles. When it's necessary to find the light at end of the tunel once a for all

[DieselDaisy]

50 minutes ago, Padme said:

I understand. But this is not about forming government. Theresa May was able to form government with her party and DUP. Still when it came to her Brexit plan her own coalition rejected her plan. Because they all wanted a diferent kind of Brexit, or not Brexit at all. It is clear that soft Brexit can't be done. It is full Brexit or not Brexit at all. Then vote for a Party that supports either plain leave or 100% remain. Neither Tories nor Labour can get anything done. If people keep voting for them means running in circles. When it's necessary to find the light at end of the tunel once a for all

I'm not disagreeing with you: I'm just telling to what will happen. During general elections, the Brits always, largely, revert to type: Tory and Labour. It is what it is.

In the 2014 European elections, Farage's UKIP won 27.5% of the vote and produced 24 MEPs. It was hailed as a ''seismic'' at the time, yet in the 2015 general election they won exactly one seat - Farage, for all his charisma, famously couldn't win South Thanet.

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not disagreeing with you: I'm just telling to what will happen. During general elections, the Brits always, largely, revert to type: Tory and Labour. It is what it is.

In the 2014 European elections, Farage's UKIP won 27.5% of the vote and produced 24 MEPs. It was hailed as a ''seismic'' at the time, yet in the 2015 general election they won exactly one seat - Farage, for all his charisma, famously couldn't win South Thanet.

Did they actually win one seat at the general election? I thought that Carswell resigned the Tory whip and triggered a by-election?

[DieselDaisy]

15 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Did they actually win one seat at the general election? I thought that Carswell resigned the Tory whip and triggered a by-election?

That was before the general election. Carswell defected and won a bi-election (Clacton) in 2014. He was later joined by Reckless, also defecting and also winning a bi-election (Rochester & Strood). Then in the 2105 general election, Reckless lost his seat and Carswell retained his. Carswell looks like Andrew Strauss, former England captain, having had a stroke (he probably has had a stroke but he's a cunt anyway).

Edited June 27, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

In the 2014 European elections, the greens obtain 6.9% of vote and three MEPs. In 2015 general election they obtained 3.8% and produced only 1 MP.

[AtariLegend]

4 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Excuse my thickness, I'm probably missing something but, in terms of the second referendum thing, doesn't the fact that The Brexit Party done well in the last thingie elections indicate the fact that the nation seems onside with Brexit?

The Greens, Lib Dems also surged. The conservatives were basically telling people to vote for Brexit party and that the election didn't matter constantly on tv. Something like 40% of their members or grassroots said prior to it that they'd vote for the Brexit party, it was likely more on the day of.

The pro EU party vote was 40.4%, assumming you don't count Labour (who lost loads votes to Lib Dems) which would add another 14.1% being it to around 54.5.

The conservative vote was 9.1% with most of their vote going to Brexit Party/UKIP on 34.9%. Add them together and you get 44%, which is less than the 54.5%.

Add in the turnout being crap. which it always is and nothing has really changed. Country is still split. Polls says Remain in the mid 50's and Leave late 40's, but not too far away from 2017. Though the polls are generally rubbish in this country.

Edited June 27, 2019 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

5 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Excuse my thickness, I'm probably missing something but, in terms of the second referendum thing, doesn't the fact that The Brexit Party done well in the last thingie elections indicate the fact that the nation seems onside with Brexit?

Remainers have a way around that. You simply add up all of the losing percentages and declare the losers the winner. 

[Padme]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not disagreeing with you: I'm just telling to what will happen. During general elections, the Brits always, largely, revert to type: Tory and Labour. It is what it is.

In the 2014 European elections, Farage's UKIP won 27.5% of the vote and produced 24 MEPs. It was hailed as a ''seismic'' at the time, yet in the 2015 general election they won exactly one seat - Farage, for all his charisma, famously couldn't win South Thanet.

It was seismic. Because in 2016 Farage got the referendum. And the result he wanted.The Tories got a virtual landslide win because they support the referendum. They avoided disaster with that promise. Otherwise UKIP would've won the 2015 election. During the referendum campaign both parties, Tories and Labour campaign against Leave. Yet a lot of their usual voters didn't give a fuck and voted Leave anyway.

You could say Tories and Labour were faking with their support for Remain. I think they were just divided at the time. And they still are.

[DieselDaisy]

57 minutes ago, Padme said:

It was seismic. Because in 2016 Farage got the referendum. And the result he wanted.The Tories got a virtual landslide win because they support the referendum. They avoided disaster with that promise. Otherwise UKIP would've won the 2015 election. During the referendum campaign both parties, Tories and Labour campaign against Leave. Yet a lot of their usual voters didn't give a fuck and voted Leave anyway.

You could say Tories and Labour were faking with their support for Remain. I think they were just divided at the time. And they still are.

Simply no haha.

Do you live in America? It is similar to their republican-democrat stranglehold. The idea of another party winning in the USA is completely preposterous. 

[Padme]

17 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Simply no haha.

Do you live in America? It is similar to their republican-democrat stranglehold. The idea of another party winning in the USA is completely preposterous. 

But in America the third parties are way too small. The only exception was Bernie Sanders. He became Senator from Vermont as a Socialist. Once in the Senate he joined the Democrats. In the UK is not the case. Lib. Dem made a coalition with Tories once. That means they got a good amount of MP. You also have the SNP in Scotland or DUP in Northen Ireland. Those parties I mentioned have a good base and MP.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

But in America the third parties are way too small. The only exception was Bernie Sanders. He became Senator from Vermont as a Socialist. Once in the Senate he joined the Democrats. In the UK is not the case. Lib. Dem made a coalition with Tories once. That means they got a good amount of MP. You also have the SNP in Scotland or DUP in Northen Ireland. Those parties I mentioned have a good base and MP.

You'd have to go back to 1922 and Lloyd George, the last time Britain had a government that was neither Tory nor Labour.

PS

Edited June 27, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Padme]

57 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You'd have to go back to 1922 and Lloyd George, the last time Britain had a government that was neither Tory nor Labour.

PS

Of course, but third parties matters. And this time it won't be just another election because of Brexit. Still assuming Boris will be PM. We'll see if he manages to come up with a plan that Parliament will be willing to pass.

[AtariLegend]

The average age of those Tory members during the debate in the audience had to at least be 70+. No wonder most of them don't give a fuck, they'll be past the life expectancy before however wins the next election's term is up if not already.

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, Padme said:

Of course, but third parties matters. And this time it won't be just another election because of Brexit. Still assuming Boris will be PM. We'll see if he manages to come up with a plan that Parliament will be willing to pass.

Third parties matter but not to the extent that they'll ever be able to win an election and form a government. Beyond tribalism, the first-past-the-post system is a further deterrent on third parties. 

Edited June 27, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

Boris apparently, for a documentary but subsequently cut out at Foreign Office's behest, called the French ''turds'' haha.

 

[bucketfoot]

On 27/06/2019 at 11:49 PM, DieselDaisy said:

Boris apparently, for a documentary but subsequently cut out at Foreign Office's behest, called the French ''turds'' haha.

"Quoi???"

"Quoi???"

[DieselDaisy]

9 hours ago, bucketfoot said:

"Quoi???"

"Quoi???"

Barnier has actually been an excellent negotiator and has run circles around May and her team. On one occasion, Farage went up to him, shook his hand and said, ''I wish you were on our side''. 

[DieselDaisy]

Glastonbury,

[bucketfoot]

6 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Barnier has actually been an excellent negotiator and has run circles around May and her team. On one occasion, Farage went up to him, shook his hand and said, ''I wish you were on our side''. 

Sadly, very true. Although how hard May was trying to negotiate is open to question.

Time to send in the big boys.

[DieselDaisy]

The rumour is that Corbyn is losing his memory. 

[bucketfoot]

Well he certainly seems to have forgotten he's been anti-EU all of his political career.

[Padme]

16 hours ago, bucketfoot said:

Sadly, very true. Although how hard May was trying to negotiate is open to question.

Nothing is open to question. She wanted soft Brexit because she never wanted any kind of Brexit to begin with. But she never expected that many Tories in Parliament were going to be against her plan.

[AtariLegend]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

Nothing is open to question. She wanted soft Brexit because she never wanted any kind of Brexit to begin with. But she never expected that many Tories in Parliament were going to be against her plan.

She was basically an erg type before she became PM. Her contribution to the referendum was to say as little as possible, knowing that there was likely to be a leadership contest. We'll never know what she really thought.

The Brexit deal was because it's was the only non soft deal thing that would even stand a chance of getting through parliament that her supporters might have voted for.

It was not a soft Brexit. It was out off the customs union and the single market (except for Northern Ireland). fyi the backstop from this side was one of the better aspects of the deal. This outrage at the backstop comes mostly from English MPs who never wanted a deal anyway and the DUP (who like the idea of a border, but aren't that representative of their own voters). 

Edited June 30, 2019 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

She voted remain so that would be a good indicator. 

[AtariLegend]

She banged on about the EU for years. This is complete revionisn from people who didn't know who she was prior to 2016. She said remain in an interview and at one press conference, because she thought it'd be better for her career. She wasn't on any of those debates.

She was a right wing basket case who made up a lie that she couldn't deport a migrant because the European Court of Human Rights said the migrant had a cat. Her own office said it was nonscence.

She would have went for a soft Brexit involving the customs union and single market ect. if she was really this commited remainer that the Telegraph types claim she is. The same types that were proping her up a few years ago.

Edited June 30, 2019 by AtariLegend