British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

26 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

She banged on about the EU for years. This is complete revionisn from people who didn't know who she was prior to 2016. She said remain in an interview and at one press conference, because she thought it'd be better for her career. She wasn't on any of those debates.

She was a right wing basket case who made up a lie that she couldn't deport a migrant because the European Court of Human Rights said the migrant had a cat. Her own office said it was nonscence.

She would have went for a soft Brexit involving the customs union and single market ect. if she was really this commited remainer that the Telegraph types claim she is. The same types that were proping her up a few years ago.

I think it is obvious May was a Eurorealist as she is from Cameron's Thatcherite-Neoliberal cabal. Not everybody who desired remain speaks like Guy Verhofstadt haha.

[Padme]

2 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

She was basically an erg type before she became PM. Her contribution to the referendum was to say as little as possible, knowing that there was likely to be a leadership contest. We'll never know what she really thought.

The Brexit deal was because it's was the only non soft deal thing that would even stand a chance of getting through parliament that her supporters might have voted for.

It was not a soft Brexit. It was out off the customs union and the single market (except for Northern Ireland). fyi the backstop from this side was one of the better aspects of the deal. This outrage at the backstop comes mostly from English MPs who never wanted a deal anyway and the DUP (who like the idea of a border, but aren't that representative of their own voters). 

Her deal was soft Brexit. It was very similar to the kind of deal Norway has. And I don't blame her. It was up to Cameron to come up with some kind of plan. But he left

[AtariLegend]

26 minutes ago, Padme said:

Her deal was soft Brexit. It was very similar to the kind of deal Norway has. And I don't blame her. It was up to Cameron to come up with some kind of plan. But he left

Single market and customs union was not part of the deal. Otherwise we wouldn't have had people arguing for a soft Brexit over the past 3 years. It was not Norway. Norway is single market.

[soon]

Canadian former PM Stephen Harper is set to help one of your Brexit factions leadership in attempts to negotiate a UK trade deal with EU that is modelled after Canadas deal with the EU.

Harper is a hawkish neocon. Other negotiating achievements of his include unifying Canadas right wing with the traditional conservatives into the monolithic Conservative Party of Canada. Something one of his key MPs is now doing in out most right leaning province. So, yeah, hopefully they just keep him focused on the trade deal! 

See if you can get him to perform a song or two 

Edited June 30, 2019 by soon

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, Padme said:

Her deal was soft Brexit. It was very similar to the kind of deal Norway has. And I don't blame her. It was up to Cameron to come up with some kind of plan. But he left

 

2 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

Single market and customs union was not part of the deal. Otherwise we wouldn't have had people arguing for a soft Brexit over the past 3 years. It was not Norway. Norway is single market.

Yes and no. The Chequers Plan espoused frictionless trade in goods but not services or workers. It would see Britain remain in the customs union (UK and EU ''a combined customs territory'') but allow bilateral trade deals by levying EU tariffs on goods destined for only the EU market (and domestic tariffs on goods heading for the domestic market). It was vetoed by the EU irrespective who were adamant that the withdrawal agreement and future relationship agreement should be separate, and that Chequers divided the ''four freedoms'' which are considered indivisible in the single market.

Edited June 30, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

Completely childish really. It would have sufficed to sit down as most Eurosceptics do,

Not that I agree with the appropriation of Beethoven's masterpiece for that organisation. Beethoven would have loathed the EU - I am quite sure. 

[Padme]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Completely childish really. It would have sufficed to sit down as most Eurosceptics do,

Not that I agree with the appropriation of Beethoven's masterpiece for that organisation. Beethoven would have loathed the EU - I am quite sure. 

 I have some news for you. No more Junker

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/02/women-to-head-top-eu-institutions-for-first-time

Now women will take charge. It's going to be hilarious if Boris has to negotiate with them  

[AtariLegend]

32 minutes ago, Padme said:

 I have some news for you. No more Junker

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/02/women-to-head-top-eu-institutions-for-first-time

Now women will take charge. It's going to be hilarious if Boris has to negotiate with them  

She if appointed, won't take over till November. It'd be the same people Boris is dealing with.

Wonder what it'll infuriate them more. That she's a woman or that she's German?

Edited July 2, 2019 by AtariLegend

[Padme]

Just now, AtariLegend said:

She if appointed, won't take over till November. It'd be the same people Boris is dealing with.

Boris is not PM either. Who knows how long is going to take this new negotiations. Old and new people from both sides will be involved. Boris still need to bring his plan to the UK Parliament.

[AtariLegend]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

Boris is not PM either. Who knows how long is going to take this new negotiations. Old and new people from both sides will be involved. Boris still need to bring his plan to the UK Parliament.

I don't think there will be any negotiation. The Irish aren't going to accept a border in Ireland and the Torries need the DUP (because they know an election will doom them).

Boris will end up trying to have a vote on the deal (which they'll pretend is different) if this is headed towards anything other than a no deal. 

fyi for those reports about the NI conservatives tonight. The Torries got 0.5% of the vote in 2017. I have never met a Northern Irish Tory voter in my life, unless you count DUP voters. These husting debates are only to create the illusion of democracy. It's nonscence.

 

[DieselDaisy]

3 hours ago, Padme said:

 I have some news for you. No more Junker

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/02/women-to-head-top-eu-institutions-for-first-time

Now women will take charge. It's going to be hilarious if Boris has to negotiate with them  

And von der Leyen is an arch-Eurofederalist thus vindicating Eurosceptic fears: ''My goal is the United States of Europe — based on the model of the federal states of Switzerland, Germany or the US''.

Edited July 2, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Padme]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

And von der Leyen is an arch-Eurofederalist thus vindicating Eurosceptic fears: ''My goal is the United States of Europe — based on the model of the federal states of Switzerland, Germany or the US''.

YES!!! It seems you might end up missing good old Juncker 

She still needs confirmation from EU Parliament 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Padme said:

YES!!! It seems you might end up missing good old Juncker 

She still needs confirmation from EU Parliament 

They are both EPP which is where they dump Europe's centre-right Christian parties including Merkel's (and der Leyen's) CDU.

[DieselDaisy]

The European Council will be ignoring the spitzenkandidat (Manfred Weber, CSU) then which is the closest thing to a democratic process, pertaining to the presidency, the EU have. CSU are Merkel's coalition partners also, pertaining to domestic German politics!

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

fyi for those reports about the NI conservatives tonight. The Torries got 0.5% of the vote in 2017. I have never met a Northern Irish Tory voter in my life, unless you count DUP voters. These husting debates are only to create the illusion of democracy. It's nonscence.

Probably because the Conservatives have been in alliance of some sort with the UUP since 1922, the two occasionally even fielding joint candidates. Also the DUP, who themselves have been in coalition with the Conservatives since 2017, take much of the natural ''Conservative vote''.

[AtariLegend]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Probably because the Conservatives have been in alliance of some sort with the UUP since 1922, the two occasionally even fielding joint candidates. Also the DUP, who themselves have been in coalition with the Conservatives since 2017, take much of the natural ''Conservative vote''.

Complicated. I know plenty of DUP voters that don't agree with their views at all. You have to remember they are literally the political wing of protestant paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. The DUP Vs. Sinn Fein is all about Protestants Vs Catholics and paranoia that not voting DUP will lead to a united Ireland. It more tribal than Rangers Vs. Celtic. Isn't really about their political views. Those vax pops you might see on newsnight about DUP voters and church aren't really representative.

The UUP were at one point aligned with the Torries, however they are more traditional centre right than erg type, hence why there's not much support for them. 

The closest thing to middle ground here in Alliance (who are aligned with the Lib Dems). 

For the record I would definitely not vote SDLP.

Edited July 3, 2019 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

Complicated. I know plenty of DUP voters that don't agree with their views at all. You have to remember they are literally the political wing of protestant paramilitaries in Northern Ireland. The DUP Vs. Sinn Fein is all about Protestants Vs Catholics and paranoia that not voting DUP will lead to a united Ireland. It more tribal than Rangers Vs. Celtic. Isn't really about their political views. Those vax pops you might see on newsnight about DUP voters and church aren't really representative.

The UUP were at one point aligned with the Torries, however they are more traditional centre right than erg type, hence why there's not much support for them. 

The closest thing to middle ground here in Alliance (who are aligned with the Lib Dems). 

For the record it's the sdlp that I'd vote for, if they weren't about a united Ireland. I had a fantastic teacher at school that was a candidate for them in a few elections. It's a shame he never won.

There is nothing more complicated, neither Latin, brain surgery, nor quantum physics, than Irish sectarianism/politics. 

[AtariLegend]

Ugh oh.

*Deleted for own sanity*

Edited July 3, 2019 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

 

[DieselDaisy]

This is how complicated Irish sectarianism is. In staunch Irish republicanism, the Republic of Ireland is considered a colonial aberration just as much as Northern Ireland is. Extremist republicans refuse to recognise any Irish government but the republic that was proclaimed in the 1916 Easter Rising, and the Second Dáil of 1921-22 - that Parliament's effectiveness being hindered, authority residing with the Army Council, the IRA. 

The Republican Sinn Féin/Continuity IRA broke with Sinn Féin/Provisionals over this in 1986 (although in extreme republican ideology they claim to be heirs of the original Sinn Féin/IRA, 1905/1916). They not only practice abstentionism north of the border but in the Republic of Ireland also.

It is all about legitimacy. Irish republicanism is very complicated and divided. 

[AtariLegend]

I'm confused, why did we seize the tanker?

We supposedly done this because it was carrying oil to Syria in breach of EU sanctions, but the Spanish are saying the Americans asked the UK to seize it.

What does this have to with us? 

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, AtariLegend said:

I'm confused, why did we seize the tanker?

We supposedly done this because it was carrying oil to Syria in breach of EU sanctions, but the Spanish are saying the Americans asked the UK to seize it.

What does this have to with us? 

 

It is either because of EU sanctions or because we are hanging off America's penis - or a combination.

[bucketfoot]

On 04/07/2019 at 2:24 PM, DieselDaisy said:

 

Giving Verhofstadt and his crew both barrels. What a woman.

Farage's face He's absolutely loving it.

[Dazey]

8 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Giving Verhofstadt and his crew both barrels. What a woman.

Farage's face He's absolutely loving it.

I'm surprised she's not been burned at the stake by now. Wizened old hosebag dinosaur!  

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Dazey said:

I'm surprised she's not been burned at the stake by now. Wizened old hosebag dinosaur!  

But she is absolute correct about the first bit, isn't she, the bit regarding the appointment of the presidencies? She loses the plot when she starts rabbiting on about ''slavery'', but her first point is thoroughly correct. Sleazy backroom deals. Intergovernmental jockeying for position. This is what decides the EU's Presidents.