British Politics

[bucketfoot]

"And like some slumbering giant, we are going to rise and ping off the guy ropes of self-doubt and negativity"

 

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, your time has come.

[Dazey]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

We export to the EU £289 billion worth of goods whilst importing £345 billion. That isn't an alarming trade deficit, enough to justify the type of scaremongering national belittlement espoused by remainers such as yourself. The UK position going into the negotiations was hypothetically strong - also factoring in being a net contributor to the EU budget.

So we (1 country) sell £289 billion to 27 other countries and in return they sell us £345 billion? Now who out of the 28 countries (including us) stands to lose the most from a no deal? 

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, Dazey said:

So we (1 country) sell £289 billion to 27 other countries and in return they sell us £345 billion? Now who out of the 28 countries (including us) stands to lose the most from a no deal? 

That is where negotiation trade deals comes in, which we'll now have sovereign right. 

[Dazey]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

That is where negotiation trade deals comes in, which we'll now have sovereign right. 

You do know how long the average bilateral trade deal takes to agree don't you? Assume you also know the effect that trading on WTO terms will have on our industry in the interim?

Edited July 23, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

You do know how long the average bilateral trade deal takes to agree don't you? 

Are you going to answer the point about our weekly contributions to the budget (not to mention the EU rakes off our VAT)? No serious discussion about trade deficits, the flimsiness of Britain's negotiating position economically, can be conducted without factoring in that Britain is a net contributor to the EU.

[Dazey]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Are you going to answer the point about our weekly contributions to the budget (not to mention the EU rakes off our VAT)? No serious discussion about trade deficits, the flimsiness of Britain's negotiating position economically, can be conducted without factoring in that Britain is a net contributor to the EU.

Net contribution doesn't take any account of the benefits of free trade. That figure is pitiful when you consider the economic damage that hard borders and trade tariffs will inflict. Not that you care because the only industry you're arsed about is fish from the 1960's.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

Net contribution doesn't take any account of the benefits of free trade. That figure is pitiful when you consider the economic damage that hard borders and trade tariffs will inflict. Not that you care because the only industry you're arsed about is fish from the 1960's.

Absolute horse shit.

So £161 million extra per week is negligible, is it? Something to be discarded in a debate about the EU-UK's economic relationship? 

[bucketfoot]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Even the leader of the Liberal Democrats doesn't seem to understand the British constitution,

Eh???

Apologies if that's an in-joke and I've missed the point entirely.

[Dazey]

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Absolute horse shit.

So £161 million extra per week is negligible, is it? Something to be discarded in a debate about the EU-UK's economic relationship? 

It's 3% of export revenue. 

Try sticking a 10% WTO tariff on those £345 billion of EU imports payable by UK consumers and see how much of that that cash is left.  Account for a corresponding reduction in the £289 billion exports as a result of the same tariffs and it's not so rosy. 

6 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Eh???

Apologies if that's an in-joke and I've missed the point entirely.

We don't have a written constitution. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

Also, the EU rakes off about 15% VAT. That is exclusive of our budget contributions.

Your belittlement of the UK fails to acknowledge that Brexit will leave an approx 8 billion per year hole in the EU budget - N.B., the French already hate the fact that they have to fulfill the deficit created by the rebate, and have been trying to overturn the rebate for years. 

3 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Eh???

Apologies if that's an in-joke and I've missed the point entirely.

Well she seems to believe a prime minister requires a ''mandate'', which I interpret to mean a successful general election. The UK constitution simply does not operate like that. You vote for your MP of your constituency and the persona capable of commanding the confidence of the greatest number of incumbent MPs is deemed ''Prime Minister''. It is immaterial that a party leader capable of commanding that confidence switches midday by internal party machinery (you still have a chance shortly to overturn the resulting settlement at a general election, although even then you are still essentially voting for your local MP). 

 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Try sticking a 10% WTO tariff on those £345 billion of EU imports payable by UK consumers and see how much of that that cash is left.  Account for a corresponding reduction in the £289 billion exports as a result of the same tariffs and it's not so rosy. 

We don't have a written constitution. 

Neither for them which is where there is a clear UK negotiating position here. 

Incorrect really. The entirety of the UK constitution is actually written down, it is just that it is in a million different documents stretching from medieval times to the present day.

[Dazey]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Also, the EU rakes off about 15% VAT. That is exclusive of our budget contributions.

Your belittlement of the UK fails to acknowledge that Brexit will leave an approx 8 billion per year hole in the EU budget - N.B., the French already hate the fact that they have to fulfill the deficit created by the rebate, and have been trying to overturn the rebate for years. 

You keep banging on about the effect it could have on the EU as justification for fucking the UK. 8 billion a year in the EU budget? So that's a cool £300 million per year per member nation? Fuck me I bet they're cacking their pants. That's almost one whole Boris bus each!  

Edited July 23, 2019 by Dazey

[bucketfoot]

4 minutes ago, Dazey said:

We don't have a written constitution. 

I was referring to Rachael Swindon.

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well she seems to believe a prime minister requires a ''mandate'', which I interpret to mean a successful general election. The UK constitution simply does not operate like that. You vote for your MP of your constituency and the persona capable of commanding the confidence of the greatest number of incumbent MPs is deemed ''Prime Minister''. It is immaterial that a party leader capable of commanding that confidence switches midday by internal party machinery (you still have a chance shortly to overturn the resulting settlement at a general election, although even then you are still essentially voting for your local MP).

Who is Rachael Swindon? Do you mean Jo Swinson, Lib Dem leader?

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Incorrect really. The entirety of the UK constitution is actually written down, it is just that it is in a million different documents stretching from medieval times to the present day.

And you need an act of parliament to change any of it? 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

You keep banking on about the effect it could have on the EU as justification for fucking the UK. 8 billion a year in the EU budget? So that's a cool £300 million per year per member nation? Fuck me I bet they're cacking their pants. That's almost one whole Boris bus each!  

Well we'd be fucking the EU also, but crucial to the argument: there is your negotiating position. A free trade deal is obviously beneficial for both parties.

But you seem to regard our economy as little much beyond a third world country! I see the pound thumped the euro upon news of Boris's premiership?

Just now, Dazey said:

And you need an act of parliament to change any of it? 

Yes. The UK constitution is actually more flexible than the US's. 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

I was referring to Rachael Swindon.

Who is Rachael Swindon? Do you mean Jo Swinson, Lib Dem leader?

Swin something. I divin't na al these lefty cunts. 

[Dazey]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Well we'd be fucking the EU also, but crucial to the argument: there is your negotiating position. A free trade deal is obviously beneficial for both parties.

But you seem to regard our economy as little much beyond a third world country! I see the pound thumped the euro upon news of Boris's premiership?

The point is that we already have a free trade deal with the EU as part of being in the EU. We're not going to get a better deal with them than we already have otherwise why would anybody else stay in?

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, Dazey said:

The point is that we already have a free trade deal with the EU as part of being in the EU. We're not going to get a better deal with them than we already have otherwise why would anybody else stay in?

Cannot make bilateral deals with other countries though. 

[Dazey]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Cannot make bilateral deals with other countries though. 

We can. Refer to earlier comments re Trumpistan.

[bucketfoot]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Swin something.

Kind of sums the Lib Dems up perfectly, that. Can't remember the name of the other non-entity she was up against either.

How long until Chuka is Lib Dem leader, I wonder? Good old Chuka.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

We can. Refer to earlier comments re Trumpistan.

You are boiling down everything to a strictly economic argument regardless. The key argument against European integration, stretching back to when we originally entered the European Communities, is the erosion of both sovereignty and democracy. 

[Dazey]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You are boiling down everything to a strictly economic argument regardless. 

No shit! I work in manufacturing and while you and your lot are wanking each other off over some vague wet dream I'm looking at the real life impact of this. The irony of this is that I'm making the same argument as you only I'm arguing for the preservation of industries that still exist whereas you're happy to see them destroyed to settle a grudge.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

No shit! I work in manufacturing and while you and your lot are wanking each other off over some vague wet dream I'm looking at the real life impact of this.

It doesn't especially concern you, the lack of accountability and democracy in the EU Commission and the ''appointment'' of the various presidencies? It Just so long as you have a fiver more in your pocket?

[Dazey]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

It doesn't especially concern you, the lack of accountability and democracy in the EU Commission and the ''appointment'' of the various presidencies? It Just so long as you have a fiver more in your pocket?

Do you actually have a job? Just curious.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Do you actually have a job? Just curious.

Yes. I work freelance as a proof reader and translator. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by DieselDaisy