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Gracii Guns

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Just now, Dazey said:

Family and kids to support yes?

I don't have any of that but a very expensive cricketing hobby to sustain.

I know where you are heading here - my economic basis is unaffected by tariffs so I can sit there on my literary arse and be the idealist blah blah- yet it is interesting that you demonstrated no concern for the (working class) fishing industry which was crushed by the EU. You have actually turned my concern for the fishing industry into a snidey joke. 

And I could be hit as I do a lot of work for services and Britain proliferates in EU and EU affiliated services. 

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I don't have any of that but a very expensive cricketing hobby to sustain.

I know where you are heading here - my economic basis is unaffected by tariffs so I can sit there on my literary arse and be the idealist blah blah- yet it is interesting that you demonstrated no concern for the (working class) fishing industry which was crushed by the EU. You have actually turned my concern for the fishing industry into a snidey joke. 

Your concern for the fishing industry is irrelevant as it died half a century ago. Your lack of concern for industry that it still alive in 2019 is of rather more concern. 

And yes, you're an overgrown student with very few real world concerns and an abiding bitterness toward people (most likely) long dead for taking away from you a life you never had in the first place.

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5 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Your concern for the fishing industry is irrelevant as it died half a century ago. Your lack of concern for industry that it still alive in 2019 is of rather more concern. 

And yes, you're an overgrown student with very few real world concerns and an abiding bitterness toward people (most likely) long dead for taking away from you a life you never had in the first place.

I do not follow. You don't know a single thing about me. Much like Soul you seem to feel aggrandised enough to fill in a deficit which has no comparison with reality. 

Here is your hypocrisy and dare I see economic snobbery,

''I am fearful for my 2.4 children middle class existence, my rent and mortgage etc., so I want to remain in the EU as I feel the EU will threaten that existence''.

Fair enough. But when the point is raised that the EU destroyed (and is still destroying) our fishing industries, people also with children, mortgages, rents, etc., we basically get the following in reply,

''Haha''. Or, ''it happened a long time ago''.

You go on about five holidays a year for fuck's sake. People from where I live cannot do that. Yet you are acting like Brexit will turn you into a Kenyan. Grow a pair of bollocks and have a bit of sympathy for the working man.

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Also, the EU - even with the rebate - crippled our agricultural industry seeing as our farmers simply could not compete with cheap continental imports. The EU basically destroyed our two primary economic industries, agriculture and fishing. It destroyed industries which have proliferated here for centuries. 

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10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I do not follow. You don't know a single thing about me. Much like Soul you seem to feel aggrandised enough to fill in a deficit which has no comparison with reality. 

Here is your hypocrisy and dare I see economic snobbery,

''I am fearful for my 2.4 children middle class existence, my rent and mortgage etc., so I want to remain in the EU as I feel the EU will threaten that existence''.

Fair enough. But when the point is raised that the EU destroyed (and is still destroying) our fishing industries, people also with children, mortgages, rents, etc., we basically get the following in reply,

''Haha''. Or, ''it happened a long time ago''.

You go on about five holidays a year for fuck's sake. People from where I live cannot do that. Yet you are acting like Brexit will turn you into a Kenyan. Grow a pair of bollocks and have a bit of sympathy for the working man.

People where you live should get on a fucking bus and move then! I left school with jack shit and worked crap jobs for a couple of years. I got sick of it and went back to school. At my first engineering job the company went bust so I moved 200 miles to fucking Hull on my own. Boo fucking hoo! Nothing wrong with a bit of hardship but it makes no sense to vote to put yourself and the rest of the country in that position. 

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Also, the EU - even with the rebate - crippled our agricultural industry seeing as our farmers simply could not compete with cheap continental imports. The EU basically destroyed our two primary economic industries, agriculture and fishing. It destroyed industries which have proliferated here for centuries. 

Well I'm glad you mention agriculture because if you can be arsed to do even a little reading you're going to love the effect that a no deal will have on farmers. :lol: 

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/no-deal-catastrophic-for-british-farming/

Edited by Dazey
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Just now, Dazey said:

People where you live should get on a fucking bus and move then! I left school with jack shit and worked crap jobs for a couple of years. I got sick of it and went back to school. At my first engineering job the company went bust so I moved 200 miles to fucking Hull on my own. Boo fucking hoo! Nothing wrong with a bit of hardship but it makes no sense to vote to put yourself and the rest of the country in that position. 

Why? That is their home, their livelihood (well what is left of it after the EU destroyed it), their family, their sporting team, their pub? Why should they move if they want to stay?

If they of course want to move, as you have done, fair enough. What you describe is your life - and well done to you if you are happy with your achievement. It isn't, and shouldn't have to be, anyone else's.

What you espouse is utterly abhorrent. It isn't so much old-fashioned class snobbery - as you (no offence) are as pleb as they come - as economic snobbery. ''I got out and succeeded in some corporate EU affiliated industry. Fuck you if you don't do what I do''. 

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There was an interesting theory postulated that the reason de Gaulle vetoed Britain's entry was that the CAP was then a work in progress and the British would have dominated the EC to a point where it would have become solely a pragmatic (EFTA style) free trade area, which would mean British agricultural imports competing with French agriculture on somewhat even terms. Once the CAP was hammered out, it was inevitable that, Britain having joined the EC, British farming would plummet to a fraction of what it once was. Only then did it become permissible to allow Britain to enter!

Even the rebate didn't readdress the balance (and by then the farming industry had been crippled).

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15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Why? That is their home, their livelihood (well what is left of it after the EU destroyed it), their family, their sporting team, their pub? Why should they move if they want to stay?

If they of course want to move, as you have done, fair enough. What you describe is your life - and well done to you if you are happy with your achievement. It isn't, and shouldn't have to be, anyone else's.

What you espouse is utterly abhorrent. It isn't so much old-fashioned class snobbery - as you (no offence) are as pleb as they come - as economic snobbery. ''I got out and succeeded in some corporate EU affiliated industry. Fuck you if you don't do what I do''. 

They can stay if they want but have to accept the consequences. You can't piss and moan that your life is shit because something that happened before your time and was beyond your control has curtailed your opportunities when you have the means to better yourself and your situation.

My home town is dead. The blast furnace closed a couple of years back and now it's a ghost town but I like the local pub so by your rationale I should move back and sign on until Boris brings back British Steel? 

Not saying fuck you if you don't do what I do. More like fuck you if you blame me for the fact that you haven't done what you could do.

Edited by Dazey
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Just now, Dazey said:

They can stay if they want but have to accept the consequences. You can't piss and moan that your life is shit because something that happened before your time and was beyond your control has curtailed your opportunities when you have the means to better yourself and your situation.

My home town is dead. The blast furnace closed a couple of years back and now it's a ghost town but I like the local pub so by your rationale I should move back and sign on until Boris brings back British Steel? 

Not saying fuck you if you don't do what I do. More like fuck you if you blame me for not doing what you could do.

Very arrogant attitude. 

I would say, rather than continuing to remaining signed up with our executioners and desiring people to migrate out of necessity, migrate in terms of both professions and geographically, release our centuries old indigenous industries from hideous EU regulations and prohibitions. 

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Very arrogant attitude. 

I would say, rather than continuing to remaining signed up with our executioners and desiring people to migrate out of necessity, migrate in terms of both professions and geographically, release our centuries old indigenous industries from hideous EU regulations and prohibitions. 

And in the meantime kill off what we already have?

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

And in the meantime kill off what we already have?

Why do you even like Europe anyway? You went to Paris, the city of Notre Dame, Louvre, and came away enthusiastic about some American style burger place. Your idea of high culture is eating a 12" Pizza whilst watching Rambo II in your underpants.

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3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Very arrogant attitude. 

I would say, rather than continuing to remaining signed up with our executioners and desiring people to migrate out of necessity, migrate in terms of both professions and geographically, release our centuries old indigenous industries from hideous EU regulations and prohibitions. 

How hilarious that you try to make it sound you are some champion for the common man while arguing for a decision that will cripple modern industries. You don't care about the common man, the working class, at all. Unless that common man wear overalls and used to earn his living from depleting fish stocks in the North East. Or more precisely, you only care about him as far as it helps you keep alive your romantic dream of a pre-modern UK. A Britain that was a leader, on top of the world, well-respected and mighty, with flourishing industries that descended from the industrial revolution, and little immigration. And with your lovely history chaps. Great Britain.

But those days are gone and you are a fool if you think that leaving EU will somehow reverse time.

Edited by SoulMonster
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46 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

How hilarious that you try to make it sound you are some champion for the common man while arguing for a decision that will cripple modern industries. You don't care about the common man, the working class, at all. Unless that common man wear overalls and used to earn his living from depleting fish stocks in the North East. Or more precisely, you only care about him as far as it helps you keep alive your romantic dream of a pre-modern UK. A Britain that was a leader, on top of the world, well-respected and mighty, with flourishing industries that descended from the industrial revolution, and little immigration. And with your lovely history chaps. Great Britain.

But those days are gone and you are a fool if you think that leaving EU will somehow reverse time.

All the usual Soul straw man gibberish, unworthy of a reply.

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9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

All the usual Soul straw man gibberish, unworthy of a reply.

It is a fact that you argue more about historical injustices than contemporary. You care more about an already dead fishing industry than making the best for UK's current industries. So your argument that other people don't care about the working class falls on its face. Unless the "working class" is exclusively comprised of people living before 1970 in the Northumbrian fishing industry.

But it is all just a front anyway. Something you say to make it appear this is about humans. All this ridiculous moaning over a fishing industry that died out 50 years ago because it couldn't adapt to modern times is just your flawed attempt to piece together a an argument that makes it seem you care about people and that is why you want to leave the EU. But obviously you don't care about people. You just care about history and you dislike modern times. You resent all that has happened that has made England into an average country, and believe that you could turn back time somehow by leaving the EU. The EU has become the focal point for all your disappointment with what has become of England. Dishwashers and multiculturalism, end of colonialism, laughing stocks of Europe, McDonalds and Subways, the advent of the service industry, alternative lifestyles, globalization and capitalization of football, etc etc. You are nothing but a Little Englander obsessed with the past and with no intelligent thoughts for the future.

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5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

It is a fact that you argue more about historical injustices than contemporary. You care more about an already dead fishing industry than making the best for UK's current industries. So your argument that other people don't care about the working class falls on its face. Unless the "working class" is exclusively comprised of people living before 1970 in the Northumbrian fishing industry.

But it is all just a front anyway. Something you say to make it appear this is about humans. All this ridiculous moaning over a fishing industry that died out 50 years ago because it couldn't adapt to modern times is just your flawed attempt to piece together a an argument that makes it seem you care about people and that is why you want to leave the EU. But obviously you don't care about people. You just care about history and you dislike modern times. You resent all that has happened that has made England into an average country, and believe that you could turn back time somehow by leaving the EU. The EU has become the focal point for all your disappointment with what has become of England. Dishwashers and multiculturalism, end of colonialism, laughing stocks of Europe, McDonalds and Subways, the advent of the service industry, alternative lifestyles, globalization and capitalization of football, etc etc. You are nothing but a Little Englander obsessed with the past and with no intelligent thoughts for the future.

What made you become a purveyor of straw man arguments anyhow? It is certainly an odd debating tactic. The person you are arguing with argues A and you reply by ignoring A whilst attacking X, Y and Z. How is one even supposed to respond to questioning like this?

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Priti Patel in a senior cabinet post? Sexy as hell and utterly evil haha. It is literally like promoting (an Indian version of) the She Wolf of the SS to a cabinet position. She'll rip your balls off that one (and you'll return for seconds like a good little gimp). 

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Priti Patel in a senior cabinet post? Sexy as hell and utterly evil haha. It is literally like promoting (an Indian version of) the She Wolf of the SS to a cabinet position. She'll rip your balls off that one (and you'll return for seconds like a good little gimp). 

I'd tame her and refocus her on the roots of her conservatism, like homemaking and patriarchy. But more to the point, we've discussed 'sexy british politicians' like 5 times and yet you've never shown me this minx before? Rude! Just looked her up and she is fine. brb ;)

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From austerity, Grenfell, the disaster of brexit over the past few years to enabling Boris (putting no deal is better than a bad deal into the national pshyce), prioritizing fox hunting, presiding over raising homeless rates, life extepentacy going down, "the will of the people", wind rush, never answering questions ect. 

Absolutely horrible. How can people pretend there were positives just because she was female?

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5 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

What made you become a purveyor of straw man arguments anyhow? It is certainly an odd debating tactic. The person you are arguing with argues A and you reply by ignoring A whilst attacking X, Y and Z. How is one even supposed to respond to questioning like this?

You are arguing that Dazey doesn't care about the working class because he is in favor for remaining in the EU despite, according to you, the EU having destroyed the English fisheries a generation ago. That's your "A". My response to your "A" is that this is an odd argument to come from someone who obviously doesn't care how leaving the EU will affect today's generation of working class. So I don't ignore "A". I don't agree with "A" and I explain why. 

I then offer an explanation to this apparent paradox by suggesting that you don't really care about the working class either. You care about the fishermen, or more precisely, the pre-EU communities of Northumberland, or an idealized version thereof. One that predates this modern, gender-equal England with its struggling economy, its industrial shake-ups, its multicultural society, its diluted culture, its liberal social values, its mediocrity. You are a deluded, romantic traditionalist who yearn for a previous time and erroneously think it can be revived if England would just leave EU.

 

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Borders, usury, militarism... what a bunch of fucking bullshit. If I were there Id just set up a continental bartering system and fly goods on small drones across the imaginary lines men drew. The state shooting down my basket of wool that I traded for some haggis would be a great indictment of the state!

Shooting down my wool is always bad everywhere. :lol:

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