British Politics

[soon]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I have no idea what you mean. My phone is a piece of crap yet even I can access those twitter videos and youitube.

Not the quality of the phone, but the internet plan that one has. In NA people on a budget might have dial up internet with very low bandwidth. They wouldnt want video updates because it would eat up their bandwidth. Like they could run out for the month and loose the internet until next month.

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So it is kind of a tradition for you?

Similar for most countries though. Generally if you look back on the lists of leaders of countries, it is like looking for a few gems among a rotten lot. In the USA, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and FDR are cited for just that: their rarity. Similar with the United Kingdom: Welsh Wizard, Winston, Attlee, Wilson (Thatcher divides too much,  as much as Brexit) - I would personally add Supermac onto that list but he is a little forgotten compared the above quintet.

Look at the unpopularity of Macron vis-à-vis the gilet jaunes. France in fact have had some stinking leaders in recent years.

7 minutes ago, soon said:

Not the quality of the phone, but the internet plan that one has. In NA people on a budget might have dial up internet with very low bandwidth. They wouldnt want video updates because it would eat up their bandwidth. Like they could run out for the month and loose the internet until next month.

You can access them in free wi-fi areas though, i.e., Wetherspoons basically haha. 

Or on trains.

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Similar for most countries though. Generally if you look back on the lists of leaders of countries, it is like looking for a few gems among a rotten lot. In the USA, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and FDR are cited for just that: their rarity. Similar with the United Kingdom: Welsh Wizard, Winston, Attlee, Wilson (Thatcher divides too much,  as much as Brexit) - I would personally add Supermac onto that list but he is a little forgotten compared the above trio.

Look at the unpopularity of Macron vis-à-vis the gilet jaunes. France in fact have had some stinking leaders in recent years.

Trump is of course the worst example. But I thought higher of you Brits. But then again, BoJo wasn't actually elected by the British people.

Anyway, if he succeeds at negotiating a deal better than no deal then I will cheer him and you guys on. If he doesn't, and you leave the EU later this year with no deal, then I hope things will turn out okay for you. It is fully possible to stand outside of the EU, but it does help to be ridiculously wealthy. Anyway, stiff dicks and all that. 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Trump is of course the worst example. But I thought higher of you Brits. But then again, BoJo wasn't actually elected by the British people.

Anyway, if he succeeds at negotiating a deal better than no deal then I will cheer him and you guys on. If he doesn't, and you leave the EU later this year with no deal, then I hope things will turn out okay for you. It is fully possible to stand outside of the EU, but it does help to be ridiculously wealthy. Anyway, stiff dicks and all that. 

The United States have had Bush Jr and Nixon though, so even Trump is not that unprecedented in his overwhelming badness. It was not that long ago Bush was persona non grata (remember all those Michael Moore documentaries?). We have had Blair (Iraq), Brown, Major, Eden (Suez), Chamberlain (''peace in our time'') and - my own worst example - Stanley Baldwin.  

It is just how the roster of any nation's leaders works.

So far Boris has not sexed up a dossier and lied about going to war, so he still has that on Anthony Blair. Still... 

[DieselDaisy]

Generally I'd go something like,

Top Five PMs

1/ Disraeli 

2/ Lloyd George 

3/ Churchill (moreso his first tenure/war time leadership and not his second shift)

4/ Pitt the Elder/Chatham 

5/ Gladstone or Supermac

(Honorable mentions: Pitt the Younger, Attlee, Wilson, Walpole, Earl Grey)

 

Worst,

1/ Baldwin

2/ Blair

3/ Theresa May

4/ Chamberlain

5/ Brown

 

PS

 

But Larry the Cat of course tops the lot.

Edited September 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

The last truly great French President was probably Mitterrand really. Look at the bunch they've had since, Chirac, Sarkozy, Hollande peddling his little bike to see his mistress and Macron haha. Four of the worst leaders of a major nation in recent times. Pompidou was pretty good. D'Estaing's liberal tenure was marred later on with economic downturn. De Gaulle is as a divisive figure as Thatcher is in Britain but you'd have to concede he is a ''great'' leader who manufactured a new political settlement. He is France's colossus of the 20th century stage. 

German Chancellors. Merkel's popularity has been hammered because of the immigration crisis. Regardless of your stance on the crisis, she is deeply unpopular now. No German Chancellor has lived up to Adenauer, a political colossus. Kohl was an exceptional operator pertaining to reunification although deeply unpopular in other areas; regardless, reunification will be his legacy I feel and a fitting and glorious one. Schmidt was mediocre. Brandt divisive (courted American interventionism yet Ostpolitik). Schröder, just a Blairey pro-Yankee neo-liberal really. Bit of a non-entity.

Digression I know as it is in the British politics section, but it just goes to show that your leaders always comprise of a mixture of greats, wankers, non-entities and failures - the latter three being more dominant perhaps. 

[Dazey]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Then you don't know much about some of the former incumbents of 10 Downing Street if you think Boris is somewhat unprecedented here. It wasn't that long ago we had Blair of Iraq, sexed up dossiers et al. fame. 

If you put the whole Iraq thingy to one side Blair did quite a lot of good in his time in office. 

[DieselDaisy]

14 minutes ago, Dazey said:

If you put the whole Iraq thingy to one side Blair did quite a lot of good in his time in office. 

Big ''if''. Besides the whole Blair era deserves a lot of criticism. The whole era was built on unlimited money and spending, which of course built up problems for when Lehmanns crashed; Chancellor Brown also sold off all of our gold reserves. The Blair era also brought in a new style of politicking, involving spin-doctoring and media creation. 1997 was certainly the moment Labour abandoned its traditional working class basis for good, favouring instead Yuppies and neoliberal economics (a forerunner for the general drift towards the far-right in those disenfranchised communities, and Brexit). I am also highly critical of specific policies of his such as liberalising the gambling laws (I have seen how this affects people first hand). Not a fan of the smoking ban either. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[spunko12345]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Then you don't know much about some of the former incumbents of 10 Downing Street if you think Boris is somewhat unprecedented here. It wasn't that long ago we had Blair of Iraq, sexed up dossiers et al. fame. 

Don't forget Dave Cameron stuck his todger up a dead pigs arse.

You've really got to push the boat out if you want to shame a British politician. They are like teflon.

[Len Cnut]

Quote

I heard that he got fired as a journalist for faking quotes

Someone hired that cunt as a journalist?  I wouldn't hire him for a milk round.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, spunko12345 said:

Don't forget Dave Cameron stuck his todger up a dead pigs arse.

You've really got to push the boat out if you want to shame a British politician. They are like teflon.

I know I know. A pig and not a sheep!! What was he thinking?

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Generally I'd go something like,

Top Five PMs

1/ Disraeli 

2/ Lloyd George 

3/ Churchill (moreso his first tenure/war time leadership and not his second shift)

4/ Pitt the Elder/Chatham 

5/ Gladstone or Supermac

(Honorable mentions: Pitt the Younger, Attlee, Wilson, Walpole, Earl Grey)

 

Worst,

1/ Baldwin

2/ Blair

3/ Theresa May

4/ Chamberlain

5/ Brown

 

PS

 

But Larry the Cat of course tops the lot.

You'd put Blair as No 2 worst in the whole of history?  Shit man, thats hard.

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

I know I know. A pig and not a sheep!! What was he thinking?

At least swans are elegant looking

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Someone hired that cunt as a journalist?  I wouldn't hire him for a milk round.

I actually think he is quite a clever guy in that this Jeeves and Wooster/Dickensean thing which first come to the forefront during Have I Got News From You is a bit of media creation. He speaks 4-5 languages including Latin (he conversed with Macron in fluent French) although he only got a second in classics from Balliol so he isn't that clever, but he is nobody's fool. I am very cynical on how much the bumbling act is real. I think the bugger puts it on to appeal to voters, a bit of populism.

PS

He is not even very consistent on Brexit, yet some see him as part of this ''Brexit duo'' with Farage. But he is actually a flip-flopper on the one issue that he has come to represent. He voted for May's deal on the third occasion and only chucked his hat in the leave campaign at the last moment. Cameron thinks he only supported Brexit to court popularity and I can well believe it.

He is a really cynical political operator, navigating the courses of populism and ''image creation'' for careerism, but he is far from a stupid fella. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Len Cnut]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I actually think he is quite a clever guy in that this Jeeves and Wooster/Dickensean thing which first come to the forefront during Have I Got News From You is a bit of media creation. He speaks 4-5 languages including Latin (he conversed with Macron in fluent French) although he only got a second in classics from Balliol so he isn't that clever, but he is nobody's fool. I am very cynical on how much the bumbling act is real. I think the bugger puts it on to appeal to voters, a bit of populism.

Perhaps you're right.  A lot is made of his insensitivity in certain quarters and its put down to a dullards lack of tact but perhaps that too is deliberate.  I mean, depending on which sensibilities you offend, it can have the effect of winning over a great many others.  My surface level impression of him though is one of an idiot.  At least in terms of the high levels I expect for a man doing his job.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Len Cnut

[soon]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

 

You can access them in free wi-fi areas though, i.e., Wetherspoons basically haha. 

Or on trains.

 

I thought you were a man of the people?

You’d suggest the poor pay for a train ride to hear from the leader? Or go to a store they can’t afford to purchase anything at?? What do you want to “let them eat cake” to?? 

well, that’ll be enhanced re-education for you then  j/k

 

ps: last great leader was Romona (ELZN)!!

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Perhaps you're right.  A lot is made of his insensitivity in certain quarters and its put down to a dullards lack of tact but perhaps that too is deliberate.  I mean, depending on which sensibilities you offend, it can have the effect of winning over a great many others.  My surface level impression of him though is one of an idiot.  At least in terms of the high levels I expect for a man doing his job.

There is almost a sense that he wants you to believe he is an idiot. I think it is image creation. I could imagine him having some lackey buggering up the crane device on purpose when he was suspended on that zip wire during the Olympics. It is as much image creation as Blair's ''I'm a pretty regular guy'' act.

That is just my own theory. There probably is something of this ''bumbling act'' that is a genuine aspect of his characther, but I feel he embellishes it to create this populist persona which is of a sort of Dickensean caricature (Mr Pickwick perhaps?) with a dash of Churchill chucked in. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, soon said:

I thought you were a man of the people?

You’d suggest the poor pay for a train ride to hear from the leader? Or go to a store they can’t afford to purchase anything at?? What do you want to “let them eat cake” to?? 

well, that’ll be enhanced re-education for you then  j/k

 

ps: last great leader was Romona (ELZN)!!

You just stick the free wifi on and go on the internet then. I don't understand what you are rabbiting on about? You are a paying customer of the rail company or 'Spoons (well, maybe not on the latter haha as it is fairly easy to just sit in there without buying anything).

[Len Cnut]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

There is almost a sense that he wants you to believe he is an idiot. I think it is image creation. I could imagine him having some lackey buggering up the crane device on purpose when he was suspended on that zip wire during the Olympics. It is as much image creation as Blair's ''I'm a pretty regular guy'' act.

I suppose for a 'well bred' Tory it must be difficult to find that common touch.  Has any of them ever had it?  The closest they can get is idiocy.  Which, if it is the case, shows exactly how much respect they have for the common man.  'Act like an idiot, the idiots go for it every time!'.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

I suppose for a 'well bred' Tory it must be difficult to find that common touch.  Has any of them ever had it?  The closest they can get is idiocy.  Which, if it is the case, shows exactly how much respect they have for the common man.  'Act like an idiot, the idiots go for it every time!'.

John Major was working class. 

[soon]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You just stick the free wifi on and go on the internet then. I don't understand what you are rabbiting on about? You are a paying customer of the rail company or 'Spoons (well, maybe not on the latter haha as it is fairly easy to just sit in there without buying anything).

Class warrior card revoked!!

[Len Cnut]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

John Major was working class. 

Fuck me, his old man was a music hall performer!  Marie Lloyd and all that, how cool is that?  Here I was all these years thinking he was just a toffee-nosed four eyed wanker.  True to his working class form I suppose he was found to be doing Edwina Curry on the side.  See what happens when you let the scum into No. 10

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, soon said:

Class warrior card revoked!!

I think you are talking to the wrong person. Most of my internet activity is done via pc as that is where I work. I rarely go online on the phone (just for the cricket scores). This explains why I bugger off (from mygnr) to a large extent whenever I'm on holiday.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

Fuck me, his old man was a music hall performer!  Marie Lloyd and all that, how cool is that?  Here I was all these years thinking he was just a toffee-nosed four eyed wanker.  True to his working class form I suppose he was found to be doing Edwina Curry on the side.  See what happens when you let the scum into No. 10

His persona was boredom and greyness - ''Norma, peas are nice today'' (Spitting Image) - and all the time he was rogering Edwina. He must have been laughing his head off at how wrong the entire nation's depiction of him was, when he was doing Edwina up the rear over the ministerial desk.

Thatcher had a middle class background, grocery shop owners. 

[DieselDaisy]

Also, Major didn't go to University, although neither did Winston so that is not always a good indicator on class, 

Working Class PMs?

- Ramsay MacDonald (illegitimate son of a farm labourer and housemaid)

- David Lloyd George (Welsh speaking/Unitarian background so he was an outsider certainly, although not as poverty stricken as he made people believe as his father was a teacher so maybe the term lower middle-class is a more apt term? He also didn't go to university).

- Callaghan (reasonably humble background also, working to lower-middle you might say, although he did rise to the rank of lieutenant in the Royal Naval during the first world war so perhaps it is more cautious to place him in the middling category?)

- And Major

And that is your lot. Four and two of them are debatable haha. Egalitarian Britain. The rest are middle class grammar types (Wilson, Maggie) or scions of the gentry (Boris) and aristocracy (Churchill, Cameron) classes.

 

[spunko12345]

41 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I know I know. A pig and not a sheep!! What was he thinking?

Ron Davies had a penchant for badgers. Which i suppose are a bit like feral sheep.