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32 minutes ago, soon said:

I found more rev left Englanders... in London of all places.

https://network23.org/londonabc/

Also, Robin Hood. And Roger Waters (:lol:). Y'all should take a page from your previous subjects in Hong Kong

You should visit Highgate Cemetery where you'll find,

Highgate_Cemetery_-_Karl_Marx's_grave,_H

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10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You should visit Highgate Cemetery where you'll find,

Highgate_Cemetery_-_Karl_Marx's_grave,_H

For sure. People even travel to your country to foment revolution!

The tombs not unlike Speer's ascetic to my untrained eyes?

One cant help but but consider the resources and labour that went into this tomb monument, eh? Paid for by CPGB. Its certainly not a monument fit for some lumpenprole. But theres the need to portray power, the ability to defend the revolution I guess? And theres the idea of 'beauty' as a tool for promoting socialism... And just look at that handsome beast! :lol:

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6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is only a mess because Parliament refuses to implement the democratic will of the populous. 

Did the populous say they wanted to leave the EU with no deal? Eh, no.

Besides, it has been a mess every step of the way from when the idea of a referendum first was conceived to Boris Johnson's ham-fisted attempts at forcing his way. Just a terrible mess. I feel for the Brits who have been lied to, misled, and now have to endure this farce. 

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14 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Did the populous say they wanted to leave the EU with no deal? Eh, no.

Besides, it has been a mess every step of the way from when the idea of a referendum first was conceived to Boris Johnson's ham-fisted attempts at forcing his way. Just a terrible mess. I feel for the Brits who have been lied to, misled, and now have to endure this farce. 

What about the poor fuckers like me who weren't mislead and knew this was all a colossal clusterfuck from day one?  

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11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Did the populous say they wanted to leave the EU with no deal? Eh, no.

The United Kingdom said they didn't want to remain in the EU. Three years later and we are still in the European Union. And pertaining to current opinion - you are a big admirer of opinion polling,

EDnNiWqXYAANQ_S?format=png&name=4096x409

 

Just now, Dazey said:

What about the poor fuckers like me who weren't mislead and knew this was all a colossal clusterfuck from day one?  

Such is democracy. You don't always get what you want. I hated Blair but endured it stoically enough because Blair won by a landslide. 

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6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Such is democracy. You don't always get what you want. I hated Blair but endured it stoically enough because Blair won by a landslide. 

Different scenario entirely. If the 1997 election was for a lifetime appointment I suspect that you would have been a little more animated about it. 

Also the referendum result was far from a landslide. Had it been a 2/3rds majority or even 60:40 in favour then I think this would be very different.

Edited by Dazey
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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

The United Kingdom said they didn't want to remain in the EU. 

But Parliament isn't stopping a Brexit (and hence being in conflict with the outcome of the referendum 3 years ago), they are trying to stop a hard Brexit, which it is unlikely the majority of the populous wants. So you are wrong in saying that the Parliament refuses to implement the Democratic outcome of the referendum, they are just trying to do it in a not mind-blowingly stupid way. 

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Different scenario entirely. If the 1997 election was for a lifetime appointment I suspect that you would have been a little more animated about it. 

If the referendum result was the reverse, 52% for remain, I would believe the British public to have made the wrong decision, and freely discuss the reasons why I believe they have made a mistake, but I would not ask for the referendum to be re-run, nor question its legality. My opinion would have been on the losing side. Such is democracy. 

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6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The United Kingdom said they didn't want to remain in the EU. Three years later and we are still in the European Union. And pertaining to current opinion - you are a big admirer of opinion polling,

 

I don't understand the poll. In the Remain there is a 23% Leave because of Corbyn? And in the Leave there is a 10% Remain also because of Corbyn?

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8 minutes ago, Dazey said:

What about the poor fuckers like me who weren't mislead and knew this was all a colossal clusterfuck from day one?  

I feel even more for you. 

I even feel for Diesel. Living in abandoned fishing villages, full of bitterness, willing to risk other industries in a desperate effort to get back on a union for something he believes they did to his ancestors.

In the words of Trump: SAD! 

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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But Parliament isn't stopping a Brexit (and hence being in conflict with the outcome of the referendum 3 years ago), they are trying to stop a hard Brexit, which it is unlikely the majority of the populous wants. So you are wrong in saying that the Parliament refuses to implement the Democratic outcome of the referendum, they are just trying to do it in a not mind-blowingly stupid way. 

I should remind you that this Parliament voted down various soft-Brexit solutions (customs union, common market, etc). They also voted against holding a second referendum. They even voted against cancelling Brexit entirely and staying within the EU!!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2019/mar/27/how-did-your-mp-vote-in-the-indicative-votes

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

If the referendum result was the reverse, 52% for remain, I would believe the British public to have made the wrong decision, and freely discuss the reasons why I believe they have made a mistake, but I would not ask for the referendum to be re-run, nor question its legality. My opinion would have been on the losing side. Such is democracy. 

After three years passing with a likely shift in opinion, you'd be stupid not to consider whether a second referendum wouldn't be required to maintain the Democratic integrity of the decision. 

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3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

If the referendum result was the reverse, 52% for remain, I would believe the British public to have made the wrong decision, and freely discuss the reasons why I believe they have made a mistake, but I would not ask for the referendum to be re-run, nor question its legality. My opinion would have been on the losing side. Such is democracy. 

The point in that case would be that in order to make such a significant change to the status quo there should be the requirement for more than a simple majority. In that case 52% would have been more than enough to not effect the change.

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Just now, SoulMonster said:

After three years passing with a likely shift in opinion, you'd be stupid not to consider whether a second referendum wouldn't be required to maintain the Democratic integrity of the decision. 

No. The referendum was ''once in a lifetime/generation''. How could I? I'm not a toddler throwing his toys out the pram like remainers!

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I should remind you that this Parliament voted down various soft-Brexit solutions (customs union, common market, etc). 

Well, since the referendum alternatives were somewhat lacking in detail, you can't blame the parliament for rejecting solutions that they consider bad for the country, while waiting for an acceptable Brexit deal. I would even say it is their job. 

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

The point in that case would be that in order to make such a significant change to the status quo there should be the requirement for more than a simple majority. In that case 52% would have been more than enough to not effect the change.

You are altering the goalposts, altering the rules of the referendum after the result, now.

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

No. The referendum was ''once in a lifetime/generation''. How could I? I'm not a toddler throwing his toys out the pram like remainers!

The Brexit is a one-time event, not the gauging of the people's will :lol:

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6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Well, since the referendum alternatives were somewhat lacking in detail, you can't blame the parliament for rejecting solutions that they consider bad for the country, while waiting for an acceptable Brexit deal. I would even say it is their job. 

What would be an ''acceptable Brexit deal''? There is NOTHING left!! Every conceivable outcome of Brexit has been thrown out by this ridiculous Parliament.

(soft to hard)

- revoke Article 50: nope

- second referendum: nope

- various soft-Brexit solutions, customs union, Norway, Norway Plus: nope

- Canada free trade deal: nope (this would be my preference).

- no deal: nope.

PS (forgot)

Oh yes, the most obvious one of all: the Withdrawal Bill. Thrice!!!

 

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The Brexit is a one-time event, not the gauging of the people's will :lol:

It rather is though as it was instigated by a referendum. 

Edited by DieselDaisy

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20 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The United Kingdom said they didn't want to remain in the EU

The United Kingdom my ass! Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar voted Remain. England and Wales are not the whole UK

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1 minute ago, Padme said:

The United Kingdom my ass! Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar voted Remain. England and Wales are not the whole UK

Ehh, Scotland and Northern Ireland are in the United Kingdom!!

(Gibraltar is an overseas territory).

 

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It rather is though as it was instigated by a referendum. 

Firstly, politicians cannot just decide that the people get one and only one chance to voice their opinion on a subject. Politicians cannot make such restrictions on the Democratic rights of a people. Only people can reduce their own power. 

Secondly, this is especially true if it is only some politicians trying to limit the Democratic rights of people. A Tory can't just stand up and declare that there will be only one democratic election regarding a subject. The entire collegium of politicians don't hold that power, much less some of them.

Thirdly, the once and for all argument obviously was directed at the outcome of the referendum, not the referendum itself. Brexit is a once in a lifetime thing. But deciding on whether to Brex doesn't have to.

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