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Gracii Guns

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3 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Snooty Londoners. 

Time to post this again :P

 

On the Tube, NONE of them (Londoners) speak. It is the oddest thing ever. They are all sitting there parallel in the carriage and they all attempt to avoid eye contact in the best manner possible, which is now very easy with mobile phones, but other methods involve taking a curious interest in the Tube diagram or advertising above the opposite person's head. But yes, none of them talk. Even if they have friends or relatives haha.

Utterly odd.

In the north we'd have progressed through 10 mins of the weather before (if it is a bloke) getting to the sports scores.

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7 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

You are confused by the fact that the meaning of an expression has evolved over the years? How about just going with the contemporary definition?

Here it is: 

Source: wikipedia

Doesn't avoid the fact that the term ''Little Englander'' and ''Imperialist'' are actually opposites. Little Englander implies national insularity - isolation, Sakoku. Empire is inherently global (multi-ethnic, multi-cultural) and impacts the metropole as much as the periphery. Furthermore, for the metropole it creates new challenges and areas of political discourse regarding the allocation of (metropole) resources for (peripheral) defence, upkeep, cultural assimilation and urban planning. 

Edited by DieselDaisy
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14 minutes ago, lukepowell1988 said:

You see this is what pisses me off about a lot of people who live in London they claim to know everything there is to know on subject based on the fact they live in London like it's some fucking hub of wonder.

 

I lived in London for years it was a shit hole I moved out learned more moving out than I ever did in London

I actually quite like London but crikey, I think I would feel differently if I lived there. It is full of history and superb museums and art galleries. But this is coming from the perspective of a weekend tripper. I'd feel differently if I had to live there and used the tube at rush hour to commute back and forth between the city and some shithole like Shepard's Bush, caked in sweat. 

By the end, the crowds were starting to have a bit of an affect (Soho-Leicester Sq area on Friday night!). Disorientating. People. Sights. Smells. Sensory overload. Made me yearn a bit for somewhere more rural and/or coastal. London fortunately has some beautiful parks to escape to.

The pubs are incredibly packed, aren't they? One of the reasons everyone just spills out onto the street. I must have tried about ten different pubs and was yet to find a quite boozer where I could sit down and read the paper. 

PS

All that architecture they've built in the city is truly appalling, Gherkins and Shards and some abomination which looks like a bunch of rivets stacked ontop of each other. But it is curious as you still find little churches nestled between these abominations which date back to the 17th century. London is a place where the new sits right next to the old in thorough incongruity. 

It is varied enough that you find bits of the city you like, and bits you hate. St Katherine's Dock next to the Tower? That is nice with all the food stalls and a nice pub called the Dickens Inn or something or other. 

Edited by DieselDaisy
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28 minutes ago, soon said:

If I get to visit England Id go everywhere other than London, ugh.

Multiculturalism is awesome and people can and do get on just fine. 

They can and do, but they also can and evidently do not, case in point Sri Lanka, former-Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland (catholic v Anglo-Scottish protestants), Spain (Basque and Catalan v Castille), the United States (Black Americans and the legacy of slavery) and Islamic extremism vis-à-vis white nationalism. Homogeneous societies such as Japan and Korea have avoided religio-ethnic tension, although not ideological tension in the latter example. 

Edited by DieselDaisy
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19 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They can and do, but they also can and evidently do not, case in point Sri Lanka, former-Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland (catholic v Anglo-Scottish protestants), Spain (Basque and Catalan v Castille), the United States (Black Americans and the legacy of slavery) and Islamic extremism vis-à-vis white nationalism. Homogeneous societies such as Japan and Korea have avoided religio-ethnic tension, although not ideological tension in the latter example. 

I certainly wouldnt argue the facts in those cases. But it also can be seen as highlighting the diversity of ways that humans find to have conflict over. A propensity for conflict may be a preexisting condition, not one produced by multiculturalism. For example, in a homogenous state there is still spousal abuse and sometimes, legal and human rights disparity. We've even seen upheaval in homogeneous settings where there is violent confrontation over the legality of alcohol. Mennonites shunning people for using a wheel barrel. Its never ending.

Multicultural affirms religious freedoms and seeks to have the class system be merit based. Some of those examples you gave are when outside forces (often colonization and decolonization) lead to hierarchies of favouritism and disenfranchisement. And that lead to destabilization, no? 

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1 minute ago, soon said:

I certainly wouldnt argue the facts in those cases. But it also can be seen as highlighting the diversity of ways that humans find to have conflict over. A propensity for conflict may be a preexisting condition, not one produced by multiculturalism. For example, in a homogenous state there is still spousal abuse and sometimes, legal and human rights disparity. We've even seen upheaval in homogeneous settings where there is violent confrontation over the legality of alcohol. Mennonites shunning people for using a wheel barrel. Its never ending.

Multicultural affirms religious freedoms and seeks to have the class system be merit based. Some of those examples you gave are when outside forces (often colonization and decolonization) lead to hierarchies of favouritism and disenfranchisement. And that lead to destabilization, no? 

Well you can't blame colonisation on Japan as the Tokugawa Shogunate kicked all of the Europeans out - well, all except the Dutch at Dejima - purged the Japanese Christians who had been proselytised by the Jesuits, and imposed national isolation for over 220 years!

I'm not denying the non-existence of economic and ideological tension in those societies, or tensions based on power and personalities, but a homogeneous society is going to be inherently free from ethnic tension. How would one ''ethnically cleanse'' one's own society afterall when you only possess one ethnicity? You cannot exactly blame the ''Poles taking wos jobs'' when there is no Poles in your country to begin with!

The assumption that homogeneous communities are somehow ''ill'', ''incorrect'', ''in need of reform'' in accordance with multi-cultural values, I find deeply sanctimonious, bigoted and an imposition - a form of cultural cleansing and imperialist values in itself. 

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3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The assumption that homogeneous communities are somehow ''ill'', ''incorrect'', ''in need of reform'' in accordance with multi-cultural values, I find deeply sanctimonious, bigoted and an imposition - a form of cultural cleansing and imperialist values in itself. 

I didnt assume this nor suggest this.

I did point out that the same propensity for conflict exists in both societies, though. So does multiculturalism 'bring conflict" to a land or does it just bring "more of the same" conflict? 

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not denying the non-existence of economic and ideological tension in those societies, or tensions based on power and personalities, but a homogeneous society is going to be inherently free from ethnic tension. How would one ''ethnically cleanse'' one's own society afterall when you only possess one ethnicity? You cannot exactly blame the ''Poles taking wos jobs'' when there is no Poles in your country to begin with!

This seems to suggest that racism and xenophobia are engraved in human nature? Anthropology would turn up examples of insular tribal needs in equal measure as the importance of trading with outside tribes and being communal. I would say that the xenophobia of today is produced within the logic of a homogenous society in addition to the divisive nature of capitalist economies and industrial assumptions about 'order.'

And racism exists across borders too. Its not a product of multiculturalism. In fact its something that multiculturalism can fix.

Id point to the overnight rise to fame of former porn actress Mia Khalifa* as evidence that we all like to peak over the fence and see whats good with the neighbours. Multiculturalism embraces our human desire to commune, just as marriage does, imho, and there is conflict in both institutions.

 

*a Lebanese women who wore a hijab in her debut porn video

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2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well bubbles can be large and encompass mass conurbations also. When the term bubble is used it usually means you're only seeing things through your own prism which in this case would be the multicultural-conurbation that is Greater London. 

Living in a bubble is about someone living a secluded life devoid of much impulses ;) Jeez, Daisy.

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2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I didn't provide you with my own environment preference so this is another straw man

Yeah, right, someone who gets triggered by someone in London being condescending to rural types, and replies by pointing out the beauty of rural region's monoculturalism, doesn't "provide [their] own environment preference" :D I suppose that post of yours was another of the 31,000 posts you have made here that says nothing about you, right? Just an empty thing that cannot be used by readers to ascertain what kind of human you are? How naive are you?

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

It would actually be hard to return to a Britain devoid of immigration.

Oh, poor you.

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2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is inherent that a community with one ethnicity will avoid ethnic tension. Japan, a relatively homogeneous society, for instance has avoided the type of ethnic conflict seen in Sri Lanka. 

Really, are we having this discussion? You are going to proselytize over the beauties of monoculturalism and ethnically pure societies to me? No, thank you. It's enough to know what you are, I don't need to hear your reasonings for it.

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Doesn't avoid the fact that the term ''Little Englander'' and ''Imperialist'' are actually opposites. 

Doesn't change he fact that Little Englander has a very clear meaning today and that you shouldn't be confused by its previous meanings.

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1 hour ago, soon said:

If I get to visit England Id go everywhere other than London, ugh.

Multiculturalism is awesome and people can and do get on just fine. 

London is great, actually. No reason to avoid that city. Lots of great parks, museums, restaurants, historic buildings and streets, pubs, hotels, and all kinds of people from everywhere...really all you could want in a metropol, yet distinctly, lovingly British. 

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50 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The assumption that homogeneous communities are somehow ''ill'', ''incorrect'', ''in need of reform'' in accordance with multi-cultural values, I find deeply sanctimonious, bigoted and an imposition - a form of cultural cleansing and imperialist values in itself. 

I don't think anyone is saying that. At least not here. Another argument you have imported from twitter, perhaps?

That being said, I do consider societies that accept an influx of refugees more sympathetic and humane than societies that don't. And I consider societies that accept economic immigration more forward-seeing and wise than those that don't. Similarly, I will always mistrust societies that refuse immigration to have a xenophobic/racist undercurrent. It just makes little sense why they wouldn't except in the light of a feeling of nationalistic, cultural or genetic superiority. Because the budget of immigration goes far beyond just the costs of (possible) ethnic tension, which can anyway be suppressed if immigration is done properly (demonstrated by multicultural societies with little to no ethnic tension).

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12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

London is great, actually. No reason to avoid that city. Lots of great parks, museums, restaurants, historic buildings and streets, pubs, hotels, and all kinds of people from everywhere...really all you could want in a metropol, yet distinctly, lovingly British. 

Oh, cool. It always seems snotty. I suppose Im seeing it through a narrow lens. People dont talk on the train? That piccadilly circus seems really rigid and police regulated. And Im not too fussed about the big cities to live in, but yeah I guess I enjoy a brief visit. Old timey english buildings and streets actually just brings to mind like the plague, cramped conditions and outhouse toilets. And sword fighting. 

But on the pro side - fancy hat ladies, restaurants and river boating. And Pink Floyd has ties I believe.

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

And if you are really, really, really lucky you can catch United on an away match against a London team. Come to think of it, all that is great about London can be found in Manchester so might as well just skip London and go directly to Manchester. Then you can visit Old Trafford and Dazey. 

Fuck yeah, straight to Manchester for me then! Id go pie-for-pie in competition with Dazey :lol: Nah, sounds nice. 

 

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Just now, soon said:

Oh, cool. It always seems snotty. I suppose Im seeing it through a narrow lens. People dont talk on the train? That piccadilly circus seems really rigid and police regulated. And Im not too fussed about the big cities to live in, but yeah I guess I enjoy a brief visit. Old timey english buildings and streets actually just brings to mind like the plague, cramped conditions and outhouse toilets. And sword fighting. 

But on the pro side - fancy hat ladies, restaurants and river boating. And Pink Floyd has ties I believe.

Fuck yeah, straight to Manchester for me then! Id go pie-for-pie in competition with Dazey :lol: Nah, sounds nice. 

 

Snotty? London? I have no idea. My general impression of the English is that they are quite friendly an accommodating. I can't say I have noticed any difference between Londoners and Mancunians. In my impression, from my travelling, the differences between individuals are much greater than the differences between populations when it comes to many personality traits, so I always end up finding nice welcoming people anywhere. I wouldn't worry about Londoners. Just remember to turn and flee if you hear, "little thwans, littleeee thwans, daddy got theeds!" followed by panicky squawking and the gush of wings flapping.

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6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Snotty? London? I have no idea. My general impression of the English is that they are quite friendly an accommodating. I can't say I have noticed any difference between Londoners and Mancunians. In my impression, from my travelling, the differences between individuals are much greater than the differences between populations when it comes to many personality traits, so I always end up finding nice welcoming people anywhere. I wouldn't worry about Londoners. Just remember to turn and flee if you hear, "little thwans, littleeee thwans, daddy got theeds!" followed by panicky squawking and the gush of wings flapping.

All that side eye that the priest got at the weeding, though. And how do y'all fit in those little taxis? But if Len is a Londoner then it must have its charms... oh wait, swans. Shit, I guess swans would be those charms. 

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23 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Snotty? London? I have no idea. My general impression of the English is that they are quite friendly an accommodating. I can't say I have noticed any difference between Londoners and Mancunians. In my impression, from my travelling, the differences between individuals are much greater than the differences between populations when it comes to many personality traits, so I always end up finding nice welcoming people anywhere. I wouldn't worry about Londoners. Just remember to turn and flee if you hear, "little thwans, littleeee thwans, daddy got theeds!" followed by panicky squawking and the gush of wings flapping.

When did my lisp suddenly turn into an inoperable cleft pallette, I can't pronounce N's now, fuckin' hell, what next :lol:

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