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10 hours ago, Dazey said:

I’ve got to say that a bit of me was kinda hoping that they’d just get it over and done with yesterday. :( 

I kind of feel the same way. I'm fed up with the soap opera. It's been three years since the referendum took place. And I just want both the UK and EU to move on

There is one thing though. The 40 billion the UK has pay to the EU. That was the case with the Theresa May deal. Has there been any changed? Where the UK is planning to get the money from?

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51 minutes ago, Padme said:

I kind of feel the same way. I'm fed up with the soap opera. It's been three years since the referendum took place. And I just want both the UK and EU to move on

There is one thing though. The 40 billion the UK has pay to the EU. That was the case with the Theresa May deal. Has there been any changed? Where the UK is planning to get the money from?

Down to c. 32-3 million as some of it has been already payed naturally through our regular EU budget contribution, and was part of both withdrawal agreements (May's and Boris'). If there is no deal: we don't pay. 

Edited by DieselDaisy

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Down to c. 32-3 million as some of it has been already payed naturally through our regular EU budget contribution, and was part of both withdrawal agreements (May's and Boris's). If there is no deal: we don't pay. 

The financial impact of a no deal would actually cost us a lot more than that.

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

The financial impact of a no deal would actually cost us a lot more than that.

You are wanting that argument again? I thought the Boris deal had established a truce!

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36 minutes ago, Padme said:

I kind of feel the same way. I'm fed up with the soap opera. It's been three years since the referendum took place. And I just want both the UK and EU to move on

There is one thing though. The 40 billion the UK has pay to the EU. That was the case with the Theresa May deal. Has there been any changed? Where the UK is planning to get the money from?

The money was already part of our budgeted contributions as a member state.

For me this just needs to be over an done with. We have a deal so just get it ratified and be done with it. Am I happy about it? No, but the damage to the country from ongoing uncertainty is far worse at this point.

The deal is the best thing for remainers such as me as an election if this was blocked would likely return a much more Eurosceptic parliament and lead to a much harder Brexit in the end.

I do think that we should give the Scots a second referendum at this point as well.

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You are wanting that argument again? I thought the Boris deal had established a truce!

See above ^^^^^ :lol: 

I haven't changed my opinion, I'm just being pragmatic at this point. 

Edited by Dazey

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

The money was already part of our budgeted contributions as a member state.

For me this just needs to be over an done with. We have a deal so just get it ratified and be done with it. Am I happy about it? No, but the damage to the country from ongoing uncertainty is far worse at this point.

The deal is the best thing for remainers at this point as an election if this was blocked would likely return a much more Eurosceptic parliament and lead to a much harder Brexit in the end.

I do think that we should give the Scots a second referendum at this point as well.

See above ^^^^^ :lol: 

You don't really grasp this referenda thing do you? They aren't a tombola that you run every Saturday you know?

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4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You don't really grasp this referenda thing do you? They aren't a tombola that you run every Saturday you know?

I think that the Scots deserve another crack at it (I don't want them to leave) because the Brexit result is a fundamental change in the state of the UK. Again I don't want them to bugger off but they should have another say. 

At this point I think that a second Brexit referendum would only be of benefit if it resulted in another leave vote. :vomit: 

Edited by Dazey

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

I think that the Scots deserve another crack at it (I don't want them to leave) because the Brexit result is a fundamental change in the state of the UK. Again I don't want them to bugger off but they should have another say. 

The irony here is if the SNP had their way in 1973, the United Kingdom would never have joined the EC. They were thoroughly Eurosceptic. 

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I think Saturday has had that sort of effect on a lot of people. It looked like there was going to be a resolution of some sort before Letwin, in his infinite wisdom, started playing games. For MPs to try to kick the can down the road again and keep us in this purgatory, really is beyond the pale.

For what it's worth, I doubt that an amendment for a second referendum being attached to the deal, will be voted through but if that is what does happen, I will certainly boycott any such sham referendum.

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The reason remainers want a second referendum is not because they desire a honest and fair reappraisal of the country's position on Brexit three years down the line, but desire a remain victory - that bit is obvious - by splitting the leave vote. They'd hope for a referendum and return resembling,

Quote

 

Revoke Article 50: 40%

Soft Brexit (Boris' say): 30%

No Deal: 30%

 

That is their tactic. 

Edited by DieselDaisy

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2 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

I think Saturday has had that sort of effect on a lot of people. It looked like there was going to be a resolution of some sort before Letwin, in his infinite wisdom, started playing games. For MPs to try to kick the can down the road again and keep us in this purgatory, really is beyond the pale.

For what it's worth, I doubt that an amendment for a second referendum being attached to the deal, will be voted through but if that is what does happen, I will certainly boycott any such sham referendum.

Thing is that any such amendment will mean that the bill itself loses support and will therefore not pass. The ERG have been very clear that their support is for the deal as is and nothing more. A second referendum amendment means back to square one and even if it passes with Labour and some Tory rebel votes I can see any remain vote nullified by an incoming Brexit Party/Tory government. It's all a huge shit sandwich basically.  

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Just now, Dazey said:

Thing is that any such amendment will mean that the bill itself loses support and will therefore not pass. The ERG have been very clear that their support is for the deal as is and nothing more. A second referendum amendment means back to square one and even if it passes with Labour and some Tory rebel votes I can see any remain vote nullified by an incoming Brexit Party/Tory government. It's all a huge shit sandwich basically.  

It'll be utterly glorious if it has Priti as PM.

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11 hours ago, Dazey said:

I’ve got to say that a bit of me was kinda hoping that they’d just get it over and done with yesterday. :( 

I've heard some other pro-remain people say the same thing, that they're tired and just want it done, but I don't really get that point of view - if you believe it's going to be a disaster then surely you shouldn't want it to happen at all.

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1 minute ago, Graeme said:

I've heard some other pro-remain people say the same thing, that they're tired and just want it done, but I don't really get that point of view - if you believe it's going to be a disaster then surely you shouldn't want it to happen at all.

It's more a pragmatic view of the consequences of dragging it out any further. A no deal is likely to be catastrophic and article 50 isn't getting revoked at this point no matter how much I may want it to be. Even if it was I think that the impact on the country would kick the fuck out of us for years to come. 

I don't want to leave and I believe that the deal will make us all poorer but it is a deal and we can get it over the line and move on. I work in manufacturing and the uncertainty is killing us right now.

Business just wants to know what's going on and from that standpoint I'm willing to hold my nose and support Boris' deal for now in the absence of any sane alternative. 

This is also why I don't think you should be bound by our idiocy and should get another shot at independence. :)  

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4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Yet even the EU are sick of Britain's remainers now. 

It would be rather splendid if the EU said "No more extensions, please just FUCK OFF!!!" :lol:

They may prove to be our saviours after all.

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6 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

It would be rather splendid if the EU said "No more extensions, please just FUCK OFF!!!" :lol:

They may prove to be our saviours after all.

That would be Macron's course of action. Merkel is more keen on an extension as the German economy is tanking.

They're sick of it. I actually am feeling almost sympathetic haha. They are literally looking at British politics and things like the Letwin Bill and saying, ''what the fuck (I have them speaking like Americans), we just negotiated a very amicable deal with them and now this!!''. 

I have said this earlier but there was a very telling scene on that Verhofstadt documentary when Verhofstadt's group are sitting around and describing how the remainer protesters are a massive pain in the arse. It is a very telling scene. 

Edited by DieselDaisy

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9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have said this earlier but there was a very telling scene on that Verhofstadt documentary when Verhofstadt's group are sitting around and describing how the remainer protesters are a massive pain in the arse. It is a very telling scene. 

:lol: I haven't seen that doc, I'll have to check it out.

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9 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

:lol: I haven't seen that doc, I'll have to check it out.

Worth a watch. Barnier is actually a voice of reason - doesn't seem a bad bloke really. Verhofstadt is well Verhofstadt. He has this Irish woman working for him who I don't think likes us very much in the best Irish tradition haha. Ironically Verhofstadt likes vintage British cars, Rolls and Bentleys - he has a very nice house with an Italian country pile and fine wines and Chinese takeaways at his desk. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvKGWQXi3rM

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2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

It's more a pragmatic view of the consequences of dragging it out any further. A no deal is likely to be catastrophic and article 50 isn't getting revoked at this point no matter how much I may want it to be. Even if it was I think that the impact on the country would kick the fuck out of us for years to come. 

I don't want to leave and I believe that the deal will make us all poorer but it is a deal and we can get it over the line and move on. I work in manufacturing and the uncertainty is killing us right now.

Business just wants to know what's going on and from that standpoint I'm willing to hold my nose and support Boris' deal for now in the absence of any sane alternative. 

This is also why I don't think you should be bound by our idiocy and should get another shot at independence. :)  

I have broadly agreed with the outcome of every plebiscite in Scotland since I became a voter, apart from the 2014 independence referendum.

I have disagreed with the outcome of every plebsicite at UK level since I became a voter. Cameron, May, Johnson, Brexit, Austerity etc. etc.

You can understand why I am beyond fed up with being part of the UK.

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I think social media and the media in general has a lot to answer for with this current situation. I don't have a lot to do with Facebook or Twitter but just having a glance at Brexit-related stuff on there occasionally and it is just really, really weird. People have went all in and totally entrenched themselves one way or another to the point where they just can't let go of this and move on. Also, certain characters seem to want to be celebrities and have their 15 minutes of fame out of it. From 'EU girl' or whatever she's called to that knob shouting "Stop Brexit!" for three years outside parliament. It just seems typical of the arsehole society we seem to now endure. It's all very bizarre.

Edited by bucketfoot

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4 minutes ago, Graeme said:

I have broadly agreed with the outcome of every plebiscite in Scotland since I became a voter, apart from the 2014 independence referendum.

I have disagreed with the outcome of every plebsicite at UK level since I became a voter. Cameron, May, Johnson, Brexit, Austerity etc. etc.

You can understand why I am beyond fed up with being part of the UK.

You'd struggle to find a person who voted for Cameron, May, or supported austerity, in the north east of England, yet we don't go crying about independence 24/7. The North East was/is hit as hard as Scotland by the effects of Thatcherite-Toryism, pit closures, etc. 

It is what it is. In a democracy you get wankers. The good thing is you can turf them out. And then you get another wanker. If Scotland was independent you would have had a serial groper as a prime minster! You couldn't pin that on the English or Westminster. Do not see those liberal Americans in democrat heartlands wanting to secede from the Union (of the States of America) because they despise Trump.

 

6 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

I think social media and the media in general has a lot to answer for with this current situation. I don't have a lot to do with Facebook or Twitter but just having a glance at Brexit-related stuff on there occasionly and it is just really, really weird. People have went all in and totally entrenched themselves one way or another to the point where they just can't let go of this and move on. Also, certain characters seem to want to be celebrities and have their 15 minutes of fame out of it. From 'EU girl' or whatever she's called to that knob shouting "Stop Brexit!" for three years outside parliament. It just seems typical of the arsehole society we seem to now endure. It's all very bizarre.

There is some hot young Brexit totty on twitter. 

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11 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

I'm sure there is. :lol:

One young Brexiteer turned up to the Conservative Party Conference in her bra. 

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It's a good thing I've got a massive bottle of morphine to hand to dull the pain eh @Len Cnut :lol: 

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