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17 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You'd struggle to find a person who voted for Cameron, May, or supported austerity, in the north east of England, yet we don't go crying about independence 24/7. The North East was/is hit as hard as Scotland by the effects of Thatcherite-Toryism, pit closures, etc. 

The two aren't really comparable. The North East of England is a region of England, it is not one of the two countries party to the treaty of Union, it isn't a separate legal jurisdiction. Furthermore, there seems to be little-to-no appetite for any form of self-government in the North East of England, which rejected a devolution proposal by 78%. Scotland, on the other hand, voted in favour by nearly the same margin (74%), has consistently elected a majority of pro-independence political representatives for most of the last decade, and ongoing opinion polling suggests roughly half of the Scottish population now believes in independence (sometimes just under, sometimes just over). 

Many of the impacts of Tory policy may have been similar in Scotland and England's North East (as in other places in England like Liverpool, or in Wales) - but Scotland's democratic response has been very different, and this is probably largely due to the apparatus of statehood that Scotland has, giving us a greater sense of autonomy and a stronger platform to manifest our opposition and resistance to the current direction of British politics. 

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6 hours ago, Dazey said:

It's a good thing I've got a massive bottle of morphine to hand to dull the pain eh @Len Cnut :lol: 

And he’s not even joking :lol: 

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15 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I would object to a second referendum if remain had won the first one. 

I saw this first now.

Err, why should I believe that guy on twitter? Did he study drone footage of the entire rally? As far as I am concerned this is just word against word. 

And again, why does it matter so much to you? :lol:

 

Edited by SoulMonster

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14 hours ago, Dazey said:

I do think that we should give the Scots a second referendum at this point as well.

It's not that easy. Let say there is another referendum. People vote to be independent. Scotland needs to submit an application to the EU in order to be a new member. They have to go to the back of the line and wait. It takes years. So Scotland will be in limbo, nobody knows for how long.

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5 minutes ago, Padme said:

It's not that easy. Let say there is another referendum. People vote to be independent. Scotland needs to submit an application to the EU in order to be a new member. They have to go to the back of the line and wait. It takes years. So Scotland will be in limbo, nobody knows for how long.

I didn’t say anything about Scotland’s EU membership. I was just taking about their status as a part of the UK which is as simple as Westminster granting them another vote. 

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8 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I didn’t say anything about Scotland’s EU membership. I was just taking about their status as a part of the UK which is as simple as Westminster granting them another vote. 

Sure, but Scotland wants a second referendum so they can decide over their future. And what they have in mind is the EU membership

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3 minutes ago, Padme said:

Sure, but Scotland wants a second referendum so they can decide over their future. And what they have in mind is the EU membership

It’s one part of it yes but the 2014 vote was two years before Brexit and would actually have resulted in Scotland leaving the EU of their own volition. This still won 45% of the vote so clearly desire for independence is significant irrespective of Brexit. 

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6 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

And he’s not even joking :lol: 

How'd you end up with a big bottle of morphine??

Threw your back out, shagging in 9/8? :lol:

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3 minutes ago, soon said:

How'd you end up with a big bottle of morphine??

Threw your back out, shagging in 9/8? :lol:

He’s got it, not me :lol: 

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2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

He’s got it, not me :lol: 

Oh, haha! ... I dont get the impression that he shags in odd time signatures? :lol: 

What happened to @Dazey? Was it really a compassionate remainer MD?

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Just now, soon said:

Oh, haha! ... I dont get the impression that he shags in odd time signatures? :lol: 

What happened to @Dazey? Was it really a compassionate remainer MD?

The missus had a kidney stone so we’ve got a small pharmacy of pain killers at home. Wouldn’t recommend the morphine tbh. Definitely not on top of 10 pints of Stella anyways. I’m hanging out of my arsehole today. :lol: 

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2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

The missus had a kidney stone so we’ve got a small pharmacy of pain killers at home. Wouldn’t recommend the morphine tbh. Definitely not on top of 10 pints of Stella anyways. I’m hanging out of my arsehole today. :lol: 

Its best to be done on its own I think.  Closest equivalent I've tried is opium and I feel like it would be disturbed somewhat by booze :lol:  Gimme it if you don't want it!

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2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Its best to be done on its own I think.  Closest equivalent I've tried is opium and I feel like it would be disturbed somewhat by booze :lol:  Gimme it if you don't want it!

Send me your address and I’ll post you a little. :lol: 

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7 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I saw this first now.

Err, why should I believe that guy on twitter? Did he study drone footage of the entire rally? As far as I am concerned this is just word against word. 

And again, why does it matter so much to you? :lol:

 

Remainers have lied constantly. I do not see any benefit for allowing their lies to stand unaddressed?

 

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Remainers have lied constantly. I do not see any benefit for allowing their lies to stand unaddressed?

As far as I am concerned, it is word against word, or more precisely, some dude on twitter who counted the attendees from news footage and someone using “flow and fill rates and crowd density monitoring”. I know who I will trust, but it is not important to me. I couldn't care less if it was 50,000 or 5,000,000. It all reminds me of the Trump inaugural attendee discussion. I guess you are afraid to admit there is a growing number of people who want a second referendum.

As for lies. Ehem, remember that list I posted about the leave campaign's lies before the 2016 referendum? :lol: Let's be serious and admit that among humans there will always be liars, and it is likely you will find such people on both sides of the fence here? No wait, you are the one who couldn't even find something positive to say about the Eu when challenged, so it is probably futile to speak level with you.

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14 hours ago, Graeme said:

The two aren't really comparable. The North East of England is a region of England, it is not one of the two countries party to the treaty of Union, it isn't a separate legal jurisdiction. Furthermore, there seems to be little-to-no appetite for any form of self-government in the North East of England, which rejected a devolution proposal by 78%. Scotland, on the other hand, voted in favour by nearly the same margin (74%), has consistently elected a majority of pro-independence political representatives for most of the last decade, and ongoing opinion polling suggests roughly half of the Scottish population now believes in independence (sometimes just under, sometimes just over). 

Many of the impacts of Tory policy may have been similar in Scotland and England's North East (as in other places in England like Liverpool, or in Wales) - but Scotland's democratic response has been very different, and this is probably largely due to the apparatus of statehood that Scotland has, giving us a greater sense of autonomy and a stronger platform to manifest our opposition and resistance to the current direction of British politics. 

The two are absolutely comparable if we are highlighting the socio-economic argument. The socio-economic cannot just be confined to Scotland's internal border but encompass large non-Scottish sections of the United Kingdom: Northern England, Midlands, Wales and Northern Ireland. Unless of course you simply reject the socio-economic argument and rely on naked nationalism?

The ironic thing is you are espousing nation statism - very much so - yet also desiring to belong to an organisation (the EU) who are thoroughly opposed to the nation state, claiming the nation state is dead and that the future of the polities of Europe resides upon Eurofederalism! Or if you are to go to Verhofstadt's extremity, ''empire''!

 

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8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

As far as I am concerned, it is word against word, or more precisely, some dude on twitter who counted the attendees from news footage and someone using “flow and fill rates and crowd density monitoring”. I know who I will trust, but it is not important to me. I couldn't care less if it was 50,000 or 5,000,000. It all reminds me of the Trump inaugural attendee discussion. I guess you are afraid to admit there is a growing number of people who want a second referendum.

As for lies. Ehem, remember that list I posted about the leave campaign's lies before the 2016 referendum? :lol: Let's be serious and admit that among humans there will always be liars, and it is likely you will find such people on both sides of the fence here? No wait, you are the one who couldn't even find something positive to say about the Eu when challenged, so it is probably futile to speak level with you.

Not a bit suspicious of a well-rounded figure such as ''one million''?

Oh, they're a lot of people espousing this ''People's Vote'' - I do not deny. I disagree with them entirely, just as I disagree with you.

I find little to praise the EU upon - I am unapologetic about that. The EU is thoroughly repellent to me.

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Not a bit suspicious of a well-rounded figure such as ''one million''?

Oh, they're a lot of people espousing this ''People's Vote'' - I do not deny. I disagree with them entirely, just as I disagree with you.

I find little to praise the EU upon - I am unapologetic about that. The EU is thoroughly repellent to me.

Oh, do you think I believe it was exactly 1,000,000? I always assumed it was more meant to signify scale rather than an exact number of protesters.

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9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Unless of course you simply reject the socio-economic argument and rely on naked nationalism?

I seem to remember you rejecting my socio-economic arguments re Brexit in favour of a nationalistic argument on a number of occasions. 

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54 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I seem to remember you rejecting my socio-economic arguments re Brexit in favour of a nationalistic argument on a number of occasions. 

I do believe I have discussed the economic with you however the difference between us is that I take a multifaceted approach to the subject of Brexit whereas you are only interested in one thing.

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1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Oh, do you think I believe it was exactly 1,000,000? I always assumed it was more meant to signify scale rather than an exact number of protesters.

If you want to believe a trillion people showed up, that is your prerogative as this argument is just too boring, even for a Soul argument. It is even more boring than the time you got a bee in your bonnet about fallacies.

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I just confidently voted for a progressive! I have no idea how y'all let your conservatives get so emboldened and unwieldy. I got 99 problems but a conservative ain't one. :tommy:

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Just now, soon said:

I just confidently voted for a progressive! I have no idea how y'all let your conservatives get so emboldened and unwieldy. I got 99 problems but a conservative ain't one. :tommy:

You voted for a Black and White Minstrel?

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14 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

If you want to believe a trillion people showed up, that is your prerogative as this argument is just too boring, even for a Soul argument. It is even more boring than the time you got a bee in your bonnet about fallacies.

Not about fallacies but about you claming there were numerous fallacies in an article and when challenged on it, all you could say was, "but, but, they called Churchill a racist!" (not a 100 % accurate quote). I still find it hilarious. 

As for how many attending the march: Yes, that is not interesting at all. What is interesting is why you would be so eager to challenge a high number and what sort of argumentation you would be willing to use. It says a lot about you. 

Edited by SoulMonster

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

You voted for a Black and White Minstrel?

No, but I would have had our progressive movement not been so strong!! :shades:

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