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Gracii Guns

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9 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Remainers making all that noise the last three years, all those marches.... always nice when the silent majority speak.

Ain't no party like a Brexit party!

Can't say I really blame England when the alternative was Corbyn, but it's been pretty embarrassing to watch people cheering when the Tories win a seat - it's like watching a turkey celebrate Xmas :thumbsup:

I really do understand the north of Englands position, I was born and lived there for 20 years. If I still lived in England I'm honestly not sure who I would have voted for, I don't think any party really represents England well and theres no doubt that the whole of the north needs major investment. Hope it does improve down there :)

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One last thing before I head to bed.

The tactical voting thing was a farce for the Liberal Democrats. In Kensington the seat of Grenfell, they tried to get Labour remainers to vote Lib Dem.

Sam Gyimah (conservative defector to the lib dems) ran a campaign of trying to suggest the Labour candiate played a role in the fire.

Just nasty opportunitism. Lib Dems came a distant 3rd. Not many votes seperated the Tories from Labour.

Edited by AtariLegend
too tired to spell check
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1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

So are people happy or sad about this? I haven't been paying much attention. I understand people who wants out of the Eu are happy about that aspect of it, but what about conservative winning and Boris Johnson in charge?

Only time will tell. Both leavers and remainers got something. Leavers got Brexit. It's soft but it's better than nothing for them. Remainers avoided hard brexit. I guess this is the begining of transition. Now Boris hast to make new trade deals.

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7 hours ago, toroymoi said:

Tories and people who voted Conservative would gladly see poor and suffering people dying in the streets, hungry and cold. That's worse than "virtually wishing death on Tories", they are actively voting for a party and leader who wants people who aren't rich and white to die.

What a load of bollocks.

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5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

What a load of bollocks.

I heard a theory once, dunno how true it is, but it basically says that, the harsh reality of politics, economics and real life is your working classes don't really need to be doing well for a country to be doing well, what needs to be doing well is big business.  Basically the rich getting richer is good for the country and the poor getting poorer don't make no odds.

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4 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

I'm glad I voted yesterday, even though it was an ultra safe dup seat.

Alliance had a big surge here and reduced the majority massively. Glad to know I wasn't the only one.

And DUP leader Nigel Dodds lost his seat to Sinn Fein. That hurts :lol:

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3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

So are people happy or sad about this? I haven't been paying much attention. I understand people who wants out of the Eu are happy about that aspect of it, but what about conservative winning and Boris Johnson in charge?

Have you any doubts remaining that Britain has not swung from leave to remain? Boris ran a campaign based around ''get Brexit done'' and won 364 seats!!

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3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I heard a theory once, dunno how true it is, but it basically says that, the harsh reality of politics, economics and real life is your working classes don't really need to be doing well for a country to be doing well, what needs to be doing well is big business.  Basically the rich getting richer is good for the country and the poor getting poorer don't make no odds.

No, besides big business doing well. A fair amount of middle class people in very good shape is needed. Otherwise sooner or later you end up with a French Revolution

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4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Have you any doubts remaining that Britain has not swung from leave to remain? Boris ran a campaign based around ''get Brexit done'' and won 364 seats!!

There is no doubt many people don't consider Brexit important enough to let their stance on that weigh in on their vote in this election, and hence there will be a significant (in the statistical definition of the term) amount of people who voted Conservative who didn't do it because they wanted Brexit but because they wanted the Tories to win, so I will wait until new polls come in that specifically gauge people's opinion on Brexit.

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4 hours ago, downliner said:

Can't say I really blame England when the alternative was Corbyn, but it's been pretty embarrassing to watch people cheering when the Tories win a seat - it's like watching a turkey celebrate Xmas :thumbsup:

I really do understand the north of Englands position, I was born and lived there for 20 years. If I still lived in England I'm honestly not sure who I would have voted for, I don't think any party really represents England well and theres no doubt that the whole of the north needs major investment. Hope it does improve down there :)

My seat has been Labour since its creation in 1950 and we've seen it reduced to a ghost town. No investment. No transport links. Our fisheries decimated by the European Union. Endemic drug problems. The Tories cannot do worse here than Ronnie - that is certain. The only thing I know about the new Tory chap is that he is fighting for re-establishing our railway link which was axed by Beeching. Good luck to him.

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1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

There is no doubt many people don't consider Brexit important enough to let their stance on that weigh in on their vote in this election, and hence there will be a significant (in the statistical definition of the term) amount of people who voted Conservative who didn't do it because they wanted Brexit but because they wanted the Tories to win, so I will wait until new polls come in that specifically gauge people's opinion on Brexit.

Glorious. Simply glorious.

Well it is academic anyway. Boris can push through Brexit easily with his majority. There will be no second referendum/hung parliament nonsense. 

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Just now, SoulMonster said:

You disagree that many people voted on basis of tribalism and politics besides Brexit?

My gawd. Have you even followed the results? The tribalism you allude to is the precise thing that has been broken!!

But it doesn't matter anyway. Brexit will happen. 

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7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

My gawd. Have you even followed the results? The tribalism you allude to is the precise thing that has been broken!!

So now you are saying there was no tribalism and people purely voted on the basis of Brexit? Mr. Tribalism himself, Mr. "my-consituency-will-always-vote-Labour!" has now concluded that there was no such thing in this election. Oh, Diesel. :lol:

Btw, here are the most recent polls on what people actually want re: Brexit:

uten_n49.png

As you can see, the polls are very clear: For the majority of 2019 the majority has wanted to remain. Granted, the last poll was from October and of course the opinion may have shifted since then, hence why I will wait and see when a new poll comes out.

 

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1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

So now you are saying there was no tribalism and people purely voted on the basis of Brexit. Mr. Tribalism himself has now concluded that there was no such thing in this election. Oh, Diesel. :lol:

Btw, here are the most recent polls on what people actually want re: Brexit:

uten_n49.png

As you can see, the polls are very clear: For the majority of 2019 the majority has wanted to remain. Granted, the last poll was from October and of course the opinion may have shifted since then, hence why I will wait and see when a new poll comes out.

 

The story of the night, Soul, has been the swing of Labour heartlands - tribal voting Labour heartlands - towards Conservative. 

We have just had a more recent poll last night. It is called a general election. The people have overwhelmingly supported a ''get Brexit done'' ticket.

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

The story of the night, Soul, has been the swing of Labour heartlands - tribal voting Labour heartlands - towards Conservative. 

We have just had a more recent poll last night. It is called a general election. The people have overwhelmingly supported a ''get Brexit done'' ticket.

The fact that you were wrong in predicting the strength of tribalism doesn't mean there was no tribalism. You go from one extreme to the other, "tribalism will maintain Labour!" to "no tribalism, the Northerners voted for the Tories!" It is ridiculous. Of course there are still tribalism. You were simply wrong in assessing its strength.  

Some people still vote according to their tribe regardless of how that affects Brexit, because these people don't consider Brexit as important as who runs the country until the next general election. Or because they find other political issues more important to them than Brexit. I am not saying they are many, but sufficient to make last night's general election not a perfect instrument for gauging people's opinion on Brexit. Especially in the context of knowing that almost every poll on the subject of Brexit this year has indicated a clear majority for remain.

I am reluctant to argue that you at some deep level understand all this but refuse to admit it because you simply so much want this to mean that the majority of people now wants to leave EU, but I think the explanation is more according to Hanlon's Razor: You simply don't get it.

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Just now, SoulMonster said:

The fact that you were wrong in predicting the strength of tribalism doesn't mean there was no tribalism. You go from one extreme to the other, "tribalism will maintain Labour!" to "no tribalism, the Northerners voted for the Tories!" It is ridiculous. Of course there are still tribalism. You were simply wrong in assessing its strength.  

Some people still vote according to their tribe regardless of how that affects Brexit, because these people don't consider Brexit as important as who runs the country until the next general election. Or because they find other political issues more important to them than Brexit. I am not saying they are many, but sufficient to make last night's general election not a perfect instrument for gauging people's opinion on Brexit. Especially in the context of knowing that almost every poll on the subject of Brexit this year has indicated a clear majority for remain.

I am reluctant to argue that you at some deep level understand all this but refuse to admit it because you simply so much want this to mean that the majority of people now wants to leave EU, but I think the explanation is more according to Hanlon's Razor: You simply don't get it.

You are literally rabbiting on about utter bollocks. As I said, the story of the election has been the actual breaking-up of traditional tribalism (i.e., in northern Labour heartlands). The story has been the actual reverse of what you are saying haha! 

 

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36 minutes ago, Padme said:

No, besides big business doing well. A fair amount of middle class people in very good shape is needed. Otherwise sooner or later you end up with a French Revolution

Yeah, I think that was part of it too, basically the idea was that your working class don’t need to be doing well.

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

You are literally rabbiting on about utter bollocks. As I said, the story of the election has been the actual breaking-up of traditional tribalism (i.e., in northern Labour heartlands). The story has been the actual reverse of what you are saying haha! 

I could of course point out that I haven't argued that tribalism wasn't breaking up but rather that it is still a force to be reckoned with, together with some voters considering other issues more important than Brexit, but as it is likely you still wouldn't understand anything of what I write it I see no point in wasting time on you.

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3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I could of course point out that I haven't argued that tribalism wasn't breaking up but rather that it is still a force to be reckoned with, together with some voters considering other issues more important than Brexit, but as it is likely you still wouldn't understand anything of what I write it I see no point in wasting time on you.

I can only presume you have never bothered looking at the polling. 

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