British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

20 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Basically a load of disingenuous nonsense. At this point you're just deliberately misrepresenting reality. You're acting as though that contribution comes with no benefits and that simply leaving means that we just pocket that extra cash. The point is that the contribution allows us to trade tariff free with the other 27 countries in the EU and the financial benefits of this far out-weigh the upfront cost of membership.

I have done nothing of the sort - and the graph isn't my own composition, and there are multiple versions of the same graph haha. I have demonstrated the fact that the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget. This is demonstrable fact. Trade is another, albeit related, discussion which I did not trigger in the above post, but see post above. 

10 minutes ago, Dazey said:

All good points but @DieselDaisy will never acknowledge any of it because all he cares about is getting back at the EU for something to do with fish from half a century ago.

Removing ourselves from the Common Fisheries Policy is actually a perfectly valid argument for Brexit - I make no apologies for espousing it. 

[Len Cnut]

19 minutes ago, Dazey said:

All good points but @DieselDaisy will never acknowledge any of it because all he cares about is getting back at the EU for something to do with fish from half a century ago.

So, from the perspective of someone (yourself) who thinks Brexit is a bad thing, whats gonna happen then?  What, we'll be fucked ya think?  Or we'll go through a period of being fucked until things stabilize?  What do you thinks gonna go down? 

[Dazey]

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have done nothing of the sort - and the graph isn't my own composition, and there are multiple versions of the same graph haha. I have demonstrated the fact that the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget. This is demonstrable fact.

Yet a completely irrelevant one unless you also add details of the wider context. Your argument is simply "we pay more in than we get out so we should leave". 

[DieselDaisy]

26 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Brexit won't hurt the UK economy.

You said that. Now, whether I agree that it will ''hurt the economy'' or otherwise, I am replying to action's prognosis - not yours or Dazey's, despite you both choosing to ally with action for some reason - which is of a country incapable of feeding its population (based on the fallacy, seemly instigated by a misreading of British history, that the UK aims to become isolationist, and that the EU accounts for 100% of UK imports).

Now there is a gulf of difference between ''hurting the economy'', as you stated, and being incapable of feeding your population because we aim to become autarkic. 

But carry on...

5 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Yet a completely irrelevant one unless you also add details of the wider context. Your argument is simply "we pay more in than we get out so we should leave". 

I have just discussed our trade above.

Edited December 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

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2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

So, from the perspective of someone (yourself) who thinks Brexit is a bad thing, whats gonna happen then?  What, we'll be fucked ya think?  Or we'll go through a period of being fucked until things stabilize?  What do you thinks gonna go down? 

I think england after the brexit will be like a diesel (haha) car slowly running out of fuel

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

So, from the perspective of someone (yourself) who thinks Brexit is a bad thing, whats gonna happen then?  What, we'll be fucked ya think?  Or we'll go through a period of being fucked until things stabilize?  What do you thinks gonna go down? 

I will tell you what will happen. A bunch of fat rich men from Westminster will meet a bunch of fat rich men from the EU, and in probably about 11 months' time they will have produced a trade agreement which will basically mean that things continue pretty much as before. 

- By the way, during that eleven months we will be in a transition period which (if you can guess) life continues basically as before.

PS

We'll see who is right soon enough, in about a year. Me, with a EU-UK trade deal in place and multiple bilateral deals with other nations coming into operation, or Soul/Dazey and Action's dystopian wildness.

Edited December 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I will tell you what will happen. A bunch of fat rich men from Westminster will meet a bunch of fat rich men from the EU, and in probably about 11 months' time they will have produced a trade agreement which will basically mean that things continue pretty much as before. 

would you say, such a trade agreement is necessary?

[Len Cnut]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I will tell you what will happen. A bunch of fat rich men from Westminster will meet a bunch of fat rich men from the EU, and in probably about 11 months' time they will have produced a trade agreement which will basically mean that things continue pretty much as before. 

So...we'll be out of the EU but sort of not at the same time?  Well what the fuck was the point of all this palava then?

[SoulMonster]

9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You said that. 

Do you think Brexit will hurt the UK economy?

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

We'll see who is right soon enough, in about a year. Me, with a EU-UK trade deal in place and multiple bilateral deals with other nations coming into operation, or Soul/Dazey and Action's dystopian wildness.

You or the consensus of economists, you mean  And no, the implications of Brexit doesn't end after a year. Economists look at much more long-term ramifications. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Do you think Brexit will hurt the UK economy?

Only if we no deal. 

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

So...we'll be out of the EU but sort of not at the same time?  Well what the fuck was the point of all this palava then?

Boris Johnson claims he can get all deals done in one year, presedence suggests it could take up to seven years. That's multiple years where you are in limbo between being inside and being outside. Purgatory, really. Then comes hell.

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Only if we no deal. 

Exactly. Well, I prefer to listen to the majority of economists over you. Naturally.

Edited December 17, 2019 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

So...we'll be out of the EU but sort of not at the same time?  Well what the fuck was the point of all this palava then?

We'll be out of the EU but have a continuity trade deal with the EU. What was the point? 

- Won't have EU laws applying to the UK.

- Won't have the Common Fisheries Policy, thus gaining control of our territorial waters

- Be outside the Customs Union which means we can trade bilaterally with other nations

Obviously I am speaking subjectively (Dazey wants a EU Army!) but I look at the direction the EU is going, federalizing, a European Union Army, and that is not the future I desire for the United Kingdom.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Boris Johnson claims he can get all deals done in one year, presedence suggests it could take up to seven years. That's multiple years where you are in limbo between being inside and being outside. Purgatory, really. Then comes hell.

You forget that we have been trading with the EU as a member state for decades. It will be a continuity deal, not a brand new fashioned deal. 

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Exactly. Well, I prefer to listen to the majority of economists over you. Naturally.

I have just said that the economy would be hit if we no deal. Are you saying that the economists predict the reverse, that the economy will flourish under a new deal?

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

You forget that we have been trading with the EU as a member state for decades. It will be a continuity deal, not a brand new fashioned deal. 

Again, most pundits believe it will take much more than a year to finish severance negotiations with the EU. 

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Again, most pundits believe it will take much more than a year to finish severance negotiations with the EU. 

We'll see who is right soon enough.

PS

If, in December 2020, we're standing at the abyss of having no trade deal with the EU, you can tell me I was wrong.

Edited December 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Len Cnut]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10557021/stormzy-michael-gove-row-election-tweet/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunmaintwitter&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

'i set trends, dem man copy'   Of all the people I thought I'd see handling Stormzy Michael Gove is probably the last, g'awn Gove rudeboy, he shoulda dropped the next line too, 'they catch feelings, I catch bodies'   yes yes Gove

[Dazey]

Look at the choppers on that!!!!  

[DieselDaisy]

Dazey and Soul, bookmark or copy down these specific conversations for December 2020, just in case you don't manage to mislay them like the previous conversations you misled in which I stated, ''I don't care about the economy'', or ''cannot be bothered to discuss the economy''! 

We wouldn't want that happening again, would we? As much as I enjoyed receiving likes for antique posts, Dazey having a rummage around in there haha. 

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Look at the choppers on that!!!!  

Probably the first time I applauded a SNP gain.

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

We'll see who is right soon enough.

Yes, who is right between you and political experts. If this thread is anything to go by, I think the answer is quite obvious.

[Len Cnut]

3 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Look at the choppers on that!!!!  

She's gonna need a special gumsheild eh?

[SoulMonster]

20 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You forget that we have been trading with the EU as a member state for decades. It will be a continuity deal, not a brand new fashioned deal. 

I have just said that the economy would be hit if we no deal. Are you saying that the economists predict the reverse, that the economy will flourish under a new deal?

Economists predict that any Brexit, whether a hard exit or a soft exit, will have negative ramifications for UK. Of course a hard Brexit is worse.

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Economists predict that any Brexit, whether a hard exit or a soft exit, will have negative ramifications for UK. Of course a hard Brexit is worse.

Moving the goalposts now I see?

[SoulMonster]

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Moving the goalposts now I see?

No, I have been consistent in saying that economists predict that the UK will suffer economically from Brexit. Now I also pointed out that this is regardless of whether it is soft or hard. 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

No, I have been consistent in saying that economists predict that the UK will suffer economically from Brexit. Now I also pointed out that this is regardless of whether it is soft or hard. 

You claimed that we wouldn't be able to obtain a deal, and would go out with a no deal. Now you have retreated from this position to a position of the United Kingdom and EU actually negotiating a deal and being hurt, hurt however - I am sure you agree - far less than if we were trading under WTO terms? Which scenario is it?

I haven't actually commented on the impact of a trade deal simply because it is pointless speculating without understanding the nature of that trade deal. A continuity deal which allows the import and export trade to flow status quo ante Brexit would not be very detrimental I suspect, but it is pointless speculating until we have some idea of the negotiations. Brexit itself hasn't happened yet!

[action]

so in short, first break something to smithereens, then try to patch it (with trade agreements) to prevent the biggest damage. all of this without guarantees, except for "we'll see in december 2020". 

why break it then in the first place?

there was no better environment for the economy thinkable, than the EU. it will now be replaced with something less efficient. this will be better for england, how?