Dazey Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 So this is a real thing. @soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 These Corbynistas don't even hide their anti-democratic tendencies, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 13 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: These Corbynistas don't even hide their anti-democratic tendencies, That's ironic coming from you Still, you don't want racism and sexism in the press to be stopped? That's "free speech" to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 18/01/2020 at 7:43 PM, DieselDaisy said: This is fair enough. That is the main objections removed as far as I'm concerned, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51163865 what are they gonna pay it back with, their savings they earned off of taxpayers money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, SoulMonster said: That's ironic coming from you Still, you don't want racism and sexism in the press to be stopped? That's "free speech" to you? In a manner, yes. A free society should permit the voicing of all political beliefs, however repugnant. But this is academic as firstly the idea of the mainstream British press being ''racist/sexist'' is basically a fabrication, and secondly, this is coming from somebody (Long-Bailey) whose own political wing (Momentum) of her party is embedded in antisemitism, and whose party (Labour) has not possessed a female party leader in their entire history (the Tories in comparison have had two female party leaders) - this trend will continue if they elect Starmer. Returning to the racist nature of the British press, which is a belief which seems to have transpired in remainer/Woke/green circles (and disappointingly, the US press have even recycled this notion, extending it to the idea that the entire country is racist).; the trigger of this is the Duchess of Sussex, that the media here pilfered racism, hounding her out (vis-a-vis Kate Middleton who is depicted as the ''perfect princess'', white and English). Utter bollocks, Britain is probably the most tolerant non-racist country on earth. Our cities are amalgamations of differing people living - for the most part - harmoniously. Edited January 21, 2020 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: In a manner, yes. A free society should permit the voicing of all political beliefs, however repugnant. Even free speech has its limitations, e.g. libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, food labeling, etc. So the question is, do these right-wing media that she talks about break any preexisting laws that limit their right to free speech? I don't know. But if so, this politician using preexisting laws to stop them from spreading racism and sexism would not constitute a violation of democratic principles, unless you think that any limitations to free speech is such a violation (to which I, and just about every politician in most democracies, would disagree). Besides, she didn't say she was going to make it illegal for them to spread racism and sexism - neither by creating new, stricter laws or enforcing existing - just that she would fight to stop it, and that could easily be within normal democratic principles of engaging with them in discussion, changing the society as a whole where such media would lose customers, or simply using her platform as a politician to create discussions around the subject of racism and sexism that might change their ways. Not saying any of this is easy, but it should be entirely within the mindset of any progressive politician to think long-term about societal changes. Personally, I think it is great she points the finger at racism and sexism in the media and I applaud her efforts to fight it since I trust it will all happen within the frameworks of democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Len Cnut said: what are they gonna pay it back with, their savings they earned off of taxpayers money? Good point, but he gets a wad of cash from the Prince of Wales, from the Duchy of Cornwell estate, selling jams and so forth (as a tax dodge). He probably inherited money from Diana also but this is conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Britain is probably the most tolerant non-racist country on earth. Our cities are amalgamations of differing people living - for the most part - harmoniously. You haven't been to many countries, have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Personally, I think it is great she points the finger at racism and sexism in the media Pity she didn't do more to tackle the racism in her own political movement - see above, edited reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, EvanG said: You haven't been to many countries, have you? I have been to nearly every country in Europe, and a fair bit of Asia also. Name a more cosmopolitan city than London? You might say New York is its equal but then you would struggle. And for the most party, it ticks along harmoniously. - and I could also cite other cities, Birmingham, Manchester, etc. Edited January 21, 2020 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: In a manner, yes. A free society should permit the voicing of all political beliefs, however repugnant. If "sexism" and "racism" are political beliefs in modern UK, then anything can be considered a political belief and what you are basically saying is that any uttering, however vile, should be legal. Which is fine but it has nothing to do with this politician using her democratic right to fight racism and sexism. 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Pity she didn't do more to tackle the racism in her own political movement - see above, edited reply. That's funny. You will applaud her if she fights racism in her own party but attack her if she fights racism in the media. Seems you just don't like her and hence say whatever to attack her even if it leaves you morally inconsistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: If "sexism" and "racism" are political beliefs in modern UK, then anything can be considered a political belief and what you are basically saying is that any uttering, however vile, should be legal. Which is fine but it has nothing to do with this politician using her democratic right to fight racism and sexism. It is academic for the reasons stated. 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: That's funny. You will applaud her if she fights racism in her own party but attack her if she fights racism in the media. Seems you just don't like her and hence say whatever to attack her even if it leaves you morally inconsistent. She represents an antisemite political movement (Momentum) yet is criticizing others for being racist? I'd call that hypocrisy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I don't think she was talking about UK press in general, but the "right-wing press". In fact, she stated so explicitly. I have no idea whether this is a problem, I would think you would know, Daisy since I assume you read these papers, but I simultaneously don't think you would give an honest answer. I would agree, though, that regular media in the UK isn't particularly racist and certainly that most people in larger UK cities aren't. I highly doubt Brits are more racist than the average in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I have been to nearly every country in Europe, and a fair bit of Asia also. Name a more cosmopolitan city than London? You might say New York is its equal but then you would struggle. And for the most party, it ticks along harmoniously. I somehow doubt you've been to nearly every country in Europe, but whatever. There are so many multicultural cities in the world... Toronto, Amsterdam, Los Angeles. I don't even know, you can google it. Maybe you're right, Britain really is the most non-racist and tolerant country in the world. But I have no idea where you based that on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) The great racist British press (who ehh inadvertently celebrated a half-black woman as their princess), I am yet to see a racist comment pertaining to Megan in the media. The only thing any one could come up with is Danny Baker's chimpanzee comment, and Baker claimed he didn't know she was half-black, and was promptly publically chastised and fired. 2 minutes ago, EvanG said: I somehow doubt you've been to nearly every country in Europe, but whatever. There are so many multicultural cities in the world... Toronto, Amsterdam, Los Angeles. I don't even know, you can google it. Maybe you're right, Britain really is the most non-racist and tolerant country in the world. But I have no idea where you based that on. I am not saying that other multicultural cities do not exist besides London!! And I don't see why you could doubt me regarding travel considering you do not know me, but you are free to think whatever you want. I actually lived in an Asian country for awhile - but I suppose you'd doubt that also? Edited January 21, 2020 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) This is a great example of how the UK press absolutely don't have it in for Meghan Markle. I especially like the one about how she's trying to kill Princess Charlotte. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal Edited January 21, 2020 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Just now, DieselDaisy said: She represents an antisemite political movement (Momentum) yet is criticizing others for being racist? I'd call that hypocrisy. So because she belongs to an organization with members who have been accused of anti-semitic statements, she -- although she is not the recipient of such accusations and have instead criticised her own organization for not doing enough to deal with said accusations -- is somehow disqualified for speaking out against racism and sexism? Brilliant, Daisy 6 minutes ago, EvanG said: I somehow doubt you've been to nearly every country in Europe, but whatever. There are so many multicultural cities in the world... Toronto, Amsterdam, Los Angeles. I don't even know, you can google it. Maybe you're right, Britain really is the most non-racist and tolerant country in the world. But I have no idea where you based that on. Diesel's statement is trumpesque in its grandeur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I am not saying that other multicultural cities do not exist besides London!! Of course not, but you say London is the most multicultural. And maybe you're right, but please provide me a link or something. And you say Britain is probably the most non-racist and tolerant country in the world. Maybe you're right about that too, but I have no idea where you get that information from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Dazey said: This is a great example of how the UK press absolutely don't have it in for Meghan Markle. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal Where is the racism? Where is it? NB., Princess Diana and Fergie all copped it far worse and they were both white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I have been to nearly every country in Europe, and a fair bit of Asia also. Name a more cosmopolitan city than London? You might say New York is its equal but then you would struggle. And for the most party, it ticks along harmoniously. - and I could also cite other cities, Birmingham, Manchester, etc. You fucking hate London! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: So because she belongs to an organization with members who have been accused of anti-semitic statements, she -- although she is not the recipient of such accusations and have instead criticised her own organization for not doing enough to deal with said accusations -- is somehow disqualified for speaking out against racism and sexism? Brilliant, Daisy She rated her leader ''10/10'', despite his lack of willingness to tackle antisemitism in his own party, and some would argue his own antisemitism!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Dazey said: You fucking hate London! Not when it suits him. Just now, DieselDaisy said: She rated her leader ''10/10'', despite his lack of willingness to tackle antisemitism in his own party, and some would argue his own antisemitism!! Still, because she belongs to an organization with members who have been accused of anti-semitic statements, she -- although she is not the recipient of such accusations and have instead criticised her own organization for not doing enough to deal with said accusations -- is somehow disqualified for speaking out against racism and sexism? Brilliant, Daisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Just now, DieselDaisy said: Where is the racism? Where is it? NB., Princess Diana and Fergie all copped it far worse and they were both white. I think there's a variety of factors at play. Think they don't like that she's American, divorced, "doesn't know her place" and yes I think there's an element of racism there too. If they don't have it in for her then why is she getting slated for doing exactly the same things that they're praising Kate for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dazey said: You fucking hate London! Which is why I am a good person to say precisely that. I am unbiased. (I actually like London in small doses). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: Not when it suits him. Still, because she belongs to an organization with members who have been accused of anti-semitic statements, she -- although she is not the recipient of such accusations and have instead criticised her own organization for not doing enough to deal with said accusations -- is somehow disqualified for speaking out against racism and sexism? Brilliant, Daisy If you are supporting so zealously this guy, https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/13/jeremy-corbyn-not-involved-munich-olympics-massacre-wreath-laying It actually rather does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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