British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

They are replaying a world war two Blitz siren hahaha. Rule Britannia followed by fireworks and now a Blitz siren.

[BrayWyatt]

Fck wee nikla and the rest of the scottish natzi party.

[DieselDaisy]

They are now playing Noel Coward's But Don't Let's Be Beastly To The Hun haha!

 

[bucketfoot]

[EvanG]

So should I congratulate you guys?

[soon]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[Graeme]

Front of the European Commission building tonight at 11pm. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

51 minutes ago, Graeme said:

Front of the European Commission building tonight at 11pm. 

 

It is a good job we are still in Europe then and haven't paddled to America or Africa. 

[SoulMonster]

Bloomberg Economics: $170 Billion and Counting: The Cost of Brexit for the U.K https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-10/-170-billion-and-counting-the-cost-of-brexit-for-the-u-k

And at the same time morons are celebrating in the English streets 

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Bloomberg Economics: $170 Billion and Counting: The Cost of Brexit for the U.K https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-10/-170-billion-and-counting-the-cost-of-brexit-for-the-u-k

And at the same time morons are celebrating in the English streets 

As Hartley-Brewer said when somebody brought the economic forecast up, ''none of this matters as it was never about money for me''. But irrespective, these forecasts are 9/10s wrong.

Edited February 1, 2020 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

As Hartley-Brewer said when somebody brought the economic forecast up, ''none of this matters as it was never about money for me''. But irrespective, these forecasts are 9/10s wrong.

I don't think it is about money either. Obviously it can't be since economists agree that Brexit will result in poorer economy for Brits. It is about a disgust for the EU, nationalism, racism, and imbecilic hopes of making Britain great again. 

Financial forecasts are 9 out of 10 times wrong?  The vast majority of economists agree that the UK will suffer economically from Brexit. I doubt they are all wrong. The details vary, but they all agree: most people will have less bying-power in the future. And the link I posted also talked about the fact that you have already lost $170 billion from Brexit. That is a fact, not a forecast. You are right now performing worse than your peers. You are lagging behind.

But these effects will gradually come sneaking upon you. It takes years and years. So in a decade or so when the full effect of Brexit is in play, will people affected by a stagnant economy -- people with less money to go on holiday, people who have been laid off because their companies couldn't compete, people who can't afford things they used to be able to afford, people who can't buy their own home -- think it was all worth it? That they made the right decision? That, "sure, I can't eat the food I want any more, but at least we now have our own law system!" or "yeah, I haven't vacationed outside England for many years but at least there are less Poles coming here". Or will they realize this was a mistake? In a generation or so, will there be new Daises complaining and whining over the mistake made be the generation before that resulted in their local industries going belly up leading to decrepit societies of have-nots?

[DieselDaisy]

I looked into the fridge today: no food. Went to the shop: no food. The water has turned off and there are plagues of locusts everywhere and zombies. There is no medicine either.

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think it is about money either. Obviously it can't be since economists agree that Brexit will result in poorer economy for Brits. It is about a disgust for the EU, nationalism, racism, and imbecilic hopes of making Britain great again. 

Financial forecasts are 9 out of 10 times wrong?  The vast majority of economists agree that the UK will suffer economically from Brexit. I doubt they are all wrong. The details vary, but they all agree: most people will have less bying-power in the future. And the link I posted also talked about the fact that you have already lost $170 billion from Brexit. That is a fact, not a forecast. You are right now performing worse than your peers. You are lagging behind.

But these effects will gradually come sneaking upon you. It takes years and years. So in a decade or so when the full effect of Brexit is in play, will people affected by a stagnant economy -- people with less money to go on holiday, people who have been laid off because their companies couldn't compete, people who can't afford things they used to be able to afford, people who can't buy their own home -- think it was all worth it? That they made the right decision? That, "sure, I can't eat the food I want any more, but at least we now have our own law system!" or "yeah, I haven't vacationed outside England for many years but at least there are less Poles coming here". Or will they realize this was a mistake? In a generation or so, will there be new Daises complaining and whining over the mistake made be the generation before that resulted in their local industries going belly up leading to decrepit societies of have-nots?

Even Goldman Sachs, remain supporting Goldman Sachs, predicts UK growth to be more sizable than EU growth. 

Edited February 1, 2020 by DieselDaisy

[AtariLegend]

@SoulMonster

Look if you really want to know why Brexit happened, then this will explain the mindset of posters like BrayWyatt

 

[DieselDaisy]

Remainer mindset: ''everybody is a racist who doesn't agree with me''.

[Dazey]

Makes you proud to be British!  

[Len Cnut]

11 hours ago, bucketfoot said:

So...this is us now is it? 

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Even Goldman Sachs, remain supporting Goldman Sachs, predicts UK growth to be more sizable than EU growth. 

You are remarkably immune to facts. Again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_effects_of_Brexit

And I quote: 

"There is a broad consensus among economists that Brexit will likely reduce the real per-capita income level in the UK."

As for what Goldman Sachs have actually said:

"Goldman Sachs says dragged-out Brexit is doing deeper damage to UK economy" 

and 

"From both a top-down and a bottom-up perspective, Brexit has taken a toll on the UK economy — even though it has not yet happened,” Goldman said.

It said Britain’s economy has underperformed other advanced economies since mid-2016, losing nearly 2.5 percent of Gross Domestic Product relative to its pre-referendum growth path, in large part due to weaker investment.

Bank of England Governor Mark Carney said in February that Britain had lost around 1.5 percent of GDP compared with the central bank’s expectations before the referendum. Carney said this month that uncertainty facing British businesses has gone “through the roof” due to Brexit.

Capital expenditure by businesses has been particularly subdued, Goldman said, and strong employment data masks a deepening misallocation of resources to labour rather than capital which will ultimately make the economy less efficient.

Since the referendum, firms have hired workers rather than invest in capital, Goldman economists said."

(https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-goldmansachs/goldman-sachs-says-dragged-out-brexit-is-doing-deeper-damage-to-uk-economy-idUSKCN1S20FW)

 

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, AtariLegend said:

@SoulMonster

Look if you really want to know why Brexit happened, then this will explain the mindset of posters like BrayWyatt

 

Funny.

Although I am sure that close to 100 % of people like those in that video voted leave, there are many intelligent, educated, well-adapted people who voted leave, too, although many of them did it because they had been lied to and didn't understand the impact of leaving.

[SoulMonster]

And a meta study on the economic impact: https://www.piie.com/system/files/documents/wp19-5.pdf

"Brexit: Everyone Loses, but Britain Loses the Most

This paper examines 12 economic simulation models that estimate the impact of Brexit (Britain’s exit from the European Union). Most of the studies find adverse effects for the United Kingdom (UK) and the EU-27. The UK’s GDP losses from a hard Brexit (reversion to World Trade Organization rules due to a lack of UK-EU agreement) range from –1.2 to –4.5 percent in most of the models analyzed. A soft Brexit (e.g., Norway arrangement, which seems in line with the nonbinding text of the political declaration of November 14, 2018, on the future EU-UK relationship) has about half the negative impact of a hard Brexit. Only two of the models derive gains for the UK after Brexit because they are based on unrealistic assumptions. The authors analyze more deeply a computable general equilibrium model that includes productivity and firm selection effects within manufacturing sectors and operations of foreign multinationals in services. Based on this latest model, they explain the likely economic impact of Brexit on a wide range of macroeconomic variables, namely GDP, wages, private consumption, capital remuneration, aggregate exports, aggregate imports, and the consumer price index."

[bucketfoot]

29 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

So...this is us now is it? 

^^^ As opposed to this?  Yeah.

We're an independent, sellf-governing nation again. That obviously doesn't mean very much to you and I have no problem with that.

You crack on.

[SoulMonster]

But of course, the leavers "didn't care about the economic impact", which is paradoxical and unfortunate since people from the poorest households in Britain, those unemployed and those in low-skilled and manual occupations, tended to vote "leave" (https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities). To better their lives they really should have voted remain. Again, people were put in a hopeless position in having to vote on something where the ramifications of the alternatives simply weren't clear or were distorted through lies.

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

^^^ As opposed to this?  Yeah.

We're an independent, sellf-governing nation again. That obviously doesn't mean very much to you and I have no problem with that.

You crack on.

Regardless of what leaving the EU does or doesn't mean, cuz to be honest I have no opinion on it one way or the other cuz I don't know what it means, furthermore I don't think that as many people that claim to know what it means, in real terms, actually do.  All that aside though, Boris Johnson, really?  Hand on heart now, Boris Johnson, the guys a fuckin' joke.  Even if he is the lesser of two evils that don't make him a good thing.  What do you call it when every option is shite?  All these fuckin' politicians, Boris, Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn, they're all fuckin' oppertunists, do you think any of em really and truly, with their heart and soul believe in or care about the idea of a self governing nation or even the EU?  They couldn't give a fuckin' monkeys mate, they're just out for an earner. 

I will be cold in my fuckin' grave before I stand behind a dozy Tory wanker like Boris.  And Farage is a bigger scumbag than him.  Self governing, yeah, another bunch of suits, thats all that means.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Self governing, yeah, another bunch of suits, thats all that means.

I disagree with the notion that all politicians are entirely driven by selfish needs. I believe that most politicians actually want to do a good job for their country and for their people. It is just unfortunate this isn't always obvious. Like Farage, I truly believe he thinks UK is better off outside of the EU and believe he is acting in the best interests of the UK people. Likewise, I believe politicians who voted remain also though this was genuinely the best alternative for the people. Sure, everybody  is also driven by self-interest and the balance between these things differ among people, (and some are completely out of whack), but all in all I believe politicians are humans too.

But I do agree with your latter point here in the sense that "self-governance" is just an illusion. Brits will still have to vote for politicians who will hopefully act in their interests, and whether they have their office in London or Brussels doesn't really matter much. You will still be governed by someone else. 

[Dazey]

23 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But of course, the leavers "didn't care about the economic impact", which is paradoxical and unfortunate since people from the poorest households in Britain, those unemployed and those in low-skilled and manual occupations, tended to vote "leave" (https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities). To better their lives they really should have voted remain. Again, people were put in a hopeless position in having to vote on something where the ramifications of the alternatives simply weren't clear or were distorted through lies.

 

The promise from the thriving counties

Redcar in the north east of Great Britain has benefited a lot from the EU - nevertheless the residents voted to leave. Now they hope that Boris Johnson's plans will come true - and could lose everything.

Fallow steelworks site: Hope for Boris Johnson's big plans

The new flag for the community center in Redcar is already ready: the blue is a little lighter than that of the old one, in the middle there is a white rose instead of the twelve gold stars. Yorkshire instead of EU, home idyll instead of European community. "Because this is who we are," says Mary Lanigan, chairwoman of the local council: Because that's what makes us.

When the Yorkshire flag flies in front of the town hall on Saturday, the people in Redcar are no longer EU-Europeans, but only people from here. It is a turning point and exactly what they wanted. Lanigan, a resolute gray-haired woman who is now in her late 60s, has lived most of her life in Britain, which was part of the EU. Shortly before Brexit , it is not sad, but extremely optimistic. "Our future will be bright," she says. 

City Councilor Mary Lanigan: "Suddenly the government seems to have money for us."

Redcar is a small quiet place in the north east of Great Britain, around 36,000 inhabitants live here. The river Tees flows into the sea here, after which the area is named: Teesside. The region is something like the Ruhr area of Great Britain, a location for the steel and chemical industry. But production has been going downhill since the 1980s. Outside of Redcar, a huge area is now vacant - the steel mill there was closed in 2015.

Anyone strolling through the main streets of Redcar suspects that it used to be a proud workers' town. And for a long time it was also a stronghold of the Labor party. But in the referendum on Brexit, 66 percent of Redcar residents voted to leave the EU. And in the parliamentary elections in December , a Tory won the constituency - for the first time.

 

The Singapore at Tees

Of all things, the independent city councilor Lanigan is so optimistic. Now, she hopes, more help is coming from London. Your calculation is simple: if Boris Johnson wants to keep his new followers in the north, he has to do something for them. "We just lent our voice to the Tories, they now have to fulfill their promises," says the city councilor. "Suddenly the government seems to have money for us."

Johnson makes great promises: A "Freeport" should be created in Redcar, a free port. In the special economic zone around it, companies should be able to settle in order to import and export goods duty-free. This is part of his vision for Britain's future after Brexit: free trade and turbo capitalism. The area around Redcar is said to become Singapore at Tees.

Lanigan has convinced this promise: "Everything will boom here with the free port." Blooming landscapes - or in this case: flourishing old steelworks.

The empty area is to become part of the special economic zone. According to the regional development company's plan, the site will be renovated and converted in four years. Lanigan hopes for 20,000 new jobs and £ 1 billion in annual sales.

As beautiful as this Brexit dream sounds, its implementation is uncertain. The first very concrete obstacle: the site of the steel mill would first have to be sold. And how promising Johnson's special economic zone plan is will also depend on how his negotiations with the EU are about future relations. The EU has so far been skeptical of the British plans .

 

More jobs, less security

There are also people in Redcar who do not give much to Johnson's promises. Mike Milen runs a charity in Redcar that organizes volunteers and places them with other organizations. He fears that the plans for the free port mean even more uncertainty. "Above all, these will be insecure jobs for the low-skilled," he says. So-called zero hour contracts, in which workers are on call, are already widespread here. Dissatisfaction with precarious employment was one of the reasons why so many people in the former industrial cities like Redcar voted for Brexit.

Redcar actually benefited greatly from the EU and above all the money from Brussels. The European Regional Development Fund co-financed several projects here: the community center with a swimming pool and a fitness studio, a new waterfront promenade, the "Beacon" - a modern tower on the waterfront, which houses the local radio station.

Palace Hub on the water: From the EU, for young people

The Palace Hub - a center for digital start-ups designed to keep young people in Redcar - was also created with money from Brussels. Jessica Bowman has her studio with a sea view on the third floor. The artist says that she feels much more comfortable here than in London, where she worked for very little money for several years. Now she runs her own online shop and sells her self-designed posters and children's accessories to customers from all over the world. She would like to run a real shop, but that wouldn't be worth it in Redcar, where many shops in the center are empty. "I'm not sure that everyone here knows what the EU has funded in the city," she says. "The Brexit makes me really sad."

Jessica Bowman in her office: "Brexit makes me sad"

And he brakes them and others. In the period since the referendum, she has repeatedly noticed new uncertainties. "I'm waiting for my plans to invest and develop the company myself." And the uncertainty will not be over after January 31st.

The completed projects, which were funded by the EU, will remain with the city. And the government in London is promising the region a lot of fresh money to close budget gaps that will arise after it leaves the EU. But prosperity in Redcar depends on how the UK economy is doing after Brexit and what the Boris Johnson government has agreed with Brussels. Depending on what the UK-EU agreement will look like, Brexit could hit the chemical industry in the region hard - before a free port is created here. And so regions that have been left behind could lose even more, even though people hoped so much there.

When Mike Milen thinks about all these risks, he just shakes his head: "A fairy tale was sold to those who had the most to lose from Brexit."

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/brexit-die-hoffnung-auf-den-brexit-boom-a-057f6741-2911-40ae-b149-2acef815773e

Edited February 1, 2020 by Dazey

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Brexit

The promise from the thriving counties

Redcar in the north east of Great Britain has benefited a lot from the EU - nevertheless the residents voted to leave. Now they hope that Boris Johnson's plans will come true - and could lose everything.

 

Fallow steelworks site: Hope for Boris Johnson's big plans

The new flag for the community center in Redcar is already ready: the blue is a little lighter than that of the old one, in the middle there is a white rose instead of the twelve gold stars. Yorkshire instead of EU, home idyll instead of European community. "Because this is who we are," says Mary Lanigan, chairwoman of the local council: Because that's what makes us.

When the Yorkshire flag flies in front of the town hall on Saturday, the people in Redcar are no longer EU-Europeans, but only people from here. It is a turning point and exactly what they wanted. Lanigan, a resolute gray-haired woman who is now in her late 60s, has lived most of her life in Britain, which was part of the EU. Shortly before Brexit , it is not sad, but extremely optimistic. "Our future will be bright," she says. 

City Councilor Mary Lanigan: "Suddenly the government seems to have money for us."

Redcar is a small quiet place in the north east of Great Britain, around 36,000 inhabitants live here. The river Tees flows into the sea here, after which the area is named: Teesside. The region is something like the Ruhr area of Great Britain, a location for the steel and chemical industry. But production has been going downhill since the 1980s. Outside of Redcar, a huge area is now vacant - the steel mill there was closed in 2015.

Anyone strolling through the main streets of Redcar suspects that it used to be a proud workers' town. And for a long time it was also a stronghold of the Labor party. But in the referendum on Brexit, 66 percent of Redcar residents voted to leave the EU. And in the parliamentary elections in December , a Tory won the constituency - for the first time.

The Singapore at Tees

Of all things, the independent city councilor Lanigan is so optimistic. Now, she hopes, more help is coming from London. Your calculation is simple: if Boris Johnson wants to keep his new followers in the north, he has to do something for them. "We just lent our voice to the Tories, they now have to fulfill their promises," says the city councilor. "Suddenly the government seems to have money for us."

Johnson makes great promises: A "Freeport" should be created in Redcar, a free port. In the special economic zone around it, companies should be able to settle in order to import and export goods duty-free. This is part of his vision for Britain's future after Brexit: free trade and turbo capitalism. The area around Redcar is said to become Singapore at Tees.

Lanigan has convinced this promise: "Everything will boom here with the free port." Blooming landscapes - or in this case: flourishing old steelworks.

The empty area is to become part of the special economic zone. According to the regional development company's plan, the site will be renovated and converted in four years. Lanigan hopes for 20,000 new jobs and £ 1 billion in annual sales.

As beautiful as this Brexit dream sounds, its implementation is uncertain. The first very concrete obstacle: the site of the steel mill would first have to be sold. And how promising Johnson's special economic zone plan is will also depend on how his negotiations with the EU are about future relations. The EU has so far been skeptical of the British plans .

More jobs, less security

There are also people in Redcar who do not give much to Johnson's promises. Mike Milen runs a charity in Redcar that organizes volunteers and places them with other organizations. He fears that the plans for the free port mean even more uncertainty. "Above all, these will be insecure jobs for the low-skilled," he says. So-called zero hour contracts, in which workers are on call, are already widespread here. Dissatisfaction with precarious employment was one of the reasons why so many people in the former industrial cities like Redcar voted for Brexit.

Redcar actually benefited greatly from the EU and above all the money from Brussels. The European Regional Development Fund co-financed several projects here: the community center with a swimming pool and a fitness studio, a new waterfront promenade, the "Beacon" - a modern tower on the waterfront, which houses the local radio station.

Palace Hub on the water: From the EU, for young people

The Palace Hub - a center for digital start-ups designed to keep young people in Redcar - was also created with money from Brussels. Jessica Bowman has her studio with a sea view on the third floor. The artist says that she feels much more comfortable here than in London, where she worked for very little money for several years. Now she runs her own online shop and sells her self-designed posters and children's accessories to customers from all over the world. She would like to run a real shop, but that wouldn't be worth it in Redcar, where many shops in the center are empty. "I'm not sure that everyone here knows what the EU has funded in the city," she says. "The Brexit makes me really sad."

Jessica Bowman in her office: "Brexit makes me sad"

And he brakes them and others. In the period since the referendum, she has repeatedly noticed new uncertainties. "I'm waiting for my plans to invest and develop the company myself." And the uncertainty will not be over after January 31st.

The completed projects, which were funded by the EU, will remain with the city. And the government in London is promising the region a lot of fresh money to close budget gaps that will arise after it leaves the EU. But prosperity in Redcar depends on how the UK economy is doing after Brexit and what the Boris Johnson government has agreed with Brussels. Depending on what the UK-EU agreement will look like, Brexit could hit the chemical industry in the region hard - before a free port is created here. And so regions that have been left behind could lose even more, even though people hoped so much there.

When Mike Milen thinks about all these risks, he just shakes his head: "A fairy tale was sold to those who had the most to lose from Brexit."

That is actually quite sad. I was honestly moved by that.

Nevertheless, those people on the images are relatives of you right? Or at the very least that you could have had kids with them but a functional condom prevented it? I am sure you know in both sense of the word everyone in Redcar.

Edited February 1, 2020 by SoulMonster