Jump to content

British Politics


Gracii Guns

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

That is actually quite sad. I was honestly moved by that.

Nevertheless, those people on the images are relatives of you right? Or at the very least that you could have had kids with them?

I don't know them personally but I know many people very much like them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You are remarkably immune to facts. Again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_effects_of_Brexit

And I quote: 

"There is a broad consensus among economists that Brexit will likely reduce the real per-capita income level in the UK."

As for what Goldman Sachs have actually said:

"Goldman Sachs says dragged-out Brexit is doing deeper damage to UK economy

and 

"From both a top-down and a bottom-up perspective, Brexit has taken a toll on the UK economy — even though it has not yet happened,” Goldman said.

It said Britain’s economy has underperformed other advanced economies since mid-2016, losing nearly 2.5 percent of Gross Domestic Product relative to its pre-referendum growth path, in large part due to weaker investment.

Bank of England Governor Mark Carney said in February that Britain had lost around 1.5 percent of GDP compared with the central bank’s expectations before the referendum. Carney said this month that uncertainty facing British businesses has gone “through the roof” due to Brexit.

Capital expenditure by businesses has been particularly subdued, Goldman said, and strong employment data masks a deepening misallocation of resources to labour rather than capital which will ultimately make the economy less efficient.

Since the referendum, firms have hired workers rather than invest in capital, Goldman economists said."

(https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-goldmansachs/goldman-sachs-says-dragged-out-brexit-is-doing-deeper-damage-to-uk-economy-idUSKCN1S20FW)

 

And the zombie apocalypse was supposed to happen, pharmaceutical droughts, food shortages, trucks jammed before Dover, planes falling from the sky, a plague of locusts.

Well?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

What do you call it when every option is shite?

Between a rock and a hard place.

12 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

All these fuckin' politicians, Boris, Theresa May, Jeremy Corbyn, they're all fuckin' oppertunists, do you think any of em really and truly, with their heart and soul believe in or care about the idea of a self governing nation or even the EU?  They couldn't give a fuckin' monkeys mate, they're just out for an earner.

That was the beauty of the referendum, they mistakenly gave the decision over to the people.... and the majority of people decided they didn't like the direction of travel of the country and of the EU. Direct democracy.

Boris was a means to an end to get it over the line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But of course, the leavers "didn't care about the economic impact", which is paradoxical and unfortunate since people from the poorest households in Britain, those unemployed and those in low-skilled and manual occupations, tended to vote "leave" (https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities). To better their lives they really should have voted remain. Again, people were put in a hopeless position in having to vote on something where the ramifications of the alternatives simply weren't clear or were distorted through lies.

You mean the same communities destroyed by the EU's common fisheries policy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

And the zombie apocalypse was supposed to happen, pharmaceutical droughts, food shortages, trucks jammed before Dover, planes falling from the sky, a plague of locusts.

Well?

I have never said such ridiculous things about the outcome of Brexit. I suppose you have read too much silly tabloids again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I disagree with the notion that all politicians are entirely driven by selfish needs. I believe that most politicians actually want to do a good job for their country and for their people. It is just unfortunate this isn't always obvious. Like Farage, I truly believe he thinks UK is better off outside of the EU and believe he is acting in the best interests of the UK people. Likewise, I believe politicians who voted remain also though this was genuinely the best alternative for the people. Sure, everybody  is also driven by self-interest and the balance between these things differ among people, (and some are completely out of whack), but all in all I believe politicians are humans too.

But I do agree with your latter point here in the sense that "self-governance" is just an illusion. Brits will still have to vote for politicians who will hopefully act in their interests, and whether they have their office in London or Brussels doesn't really matter much. You will still be governed by someone else

Perhaps I'm just a very cynical chappie but I don't buy that for a second.  Corbo, Boris, Farage, they're all just populist wankers, they don't believe in any of this shit, I mean its obvious in the way that they flip flop.  Brexit on the whole, the referendum, was just a bunch of hooting and hollering by the Tories, trying to get a certain demographic onside, everyone was totally blindsided by the vote actually coming out on the side of leave, it fucked em all up, thats why Cameron did a runner after setting this shit up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But I do agree with your latter point here in the sense that "self-governance" is just an illusion. Brits will still have to vote for politicians who will hopefully act in their interests, and whether they have their office in London or Brussels doesn't really matter much. You will still be governed by someone else

Britain will democratically vote her government out and elect another. We cannot turf out the unelected EU Commission, nor the President of the Council. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

That was the beauty of the referendum, they mistakenly gave the decision over to the people.... and the majority of people decided they didn't like the direction of travel of the country and of the EU. Direct democracy.

Yeah, the one thing thats come out of this thats on some level positive is that the will of the people was followed through on...sort of couldn't be avoided!

Quote

Boris was a means to an end to get it over the line.

Then you understand my initial post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

That was the beauty of the referendum, they mistakenly gave the decision over to the people.... and the majority of people decided they didn't like the direction of travel of the country and of the EU. Direct democracy.

Boris was a means to an end to get it over the line.

The downside being that you've now given him a blank cheque for the next 5 years.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Perhaps I'm just a very cynical chappie but I don't buy that for a second.  Corbo, Boris, Farage, they're all just populist wankers, they don't believe in any of this shit, I mean its obvious in the way that they flip flop.  Brexit on the whole, the referendum, was just a bunch of hooting and hollering by the Tories, trying to get a certain demographic onside, everyone was totally blindsided by the vote actually coming out on the side of leave, it fucked em all up, thats why Cameron did a runner after setting this shit up. 

Oh yeah, the referendum was a mistake that backfired. That's entirely on Cameron (?). But then most politicians acted in what they thought were the best for the country, regardless of whether that was to argue for leave or remain. 

I think you are a tad too cynical. Or maybe I am naive :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, SoulMonster said:

If these communities are filled with poor people without jobs, then yes. They should have voted remain. Now the poor sods are worse off.

You are requesting people to vote for their very destroyer, the source of their economic woes. Do you think they are really that idiotic? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Britain will democratically vote her government out and elect another. We cannot turf out the unelected EU Commission, nor the President of the Council. 

Yes, parts of EU governance is not electable. Similarly, parts of UK governance is also not electable. That being said, you have pointed at a weakness of the EU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Perhaps I'm just a very cynical chappie but I don't buy that for a second.  Corbo, Boris, Farage, they're all just populist wankers, they don't believe in any of this shit, I mean its obvious in the way that they flip flop.  Brexit on the whole, the referendum, was just a bunch of hooting and hollering by the Tories, trying to get a certain demographic onside, everyone was totally blindsided by the vote actually coming out on the side of leave, it fucked em all up, thats why Cameron did a runner after setting this shit up. 

Boris is a thorough opportunist but you are very much mistaken on Farage who has campaigned against the EU since Black Wednesday. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole thing kinda reminds me of New Labour coming about.  Everyone (or a fair few) was celebrating and my overriding feeling at the time was like...who are these fuckin' cunts, its like we'd fuckin' won something and its like please, they ain't gonna do fuck all.  And nor is Brexit I suspect, without being someone whoose fuckin' got all the political savvy to be able to argue it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

You are requesting people to vote for their very destroyer, the source of their economic woes. Do you think they are really that idiotic? 

The intelligent thing to do is always to vote in your best interest and not let rationality be clouded by stupid bitterness.

That being said, the woes of the fisher communities in North England is mostly their own fault. But typically they focus on blaming someone else. Pathetic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, SoulMonster said:

The intelligent thing to do is always to vote in your best interest and not let rationality be clouded by stupid bitterness.

That being said, the woes of the fisher communities in North England is mostly their own fault. But typically they focus on blaming someone else. Pathetic.

Utter garbage. What the heck did northern fisherman do that was their own fault? It was the CFP which enforced quotas, quotas which Spain and France frequently contravene. And by the way every state of the EU is forced to sign the CAP which props up a medieval French economy. Basically the EU's economics are built to subsidize France. The only reason Britain was admitted in 1973 was because the French had introduced the CAP to benefit their agriculture sector (to the detriment of everyone else). Heath sold out our maritime economy whilst the French altered the EC to benefit their economy. That was why de Gaulle said ''non'' earlier, as he was afraid that Britain's rural industry would outperform France's. By 1972 France had altered the playing field. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Dazey said:

The downside being that you've now given him a blank cheque for the next 5 years.

I'm looking at the bigger picture, longer term. It's up to him to show he can run the country to an acceptable level..... he can be kicked out in 5 years.

Getting out of the EU was a once in a generation opportunity, 5 years is fuck all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Boris reopens the Northumberland train connection with Newcastle which was closed by Beeching, I'd vote for Boris on every occasion, and buy his tea towel.

(I am under no impression that this ''northern boost'' will happen by the way which is why I said ''if''. I'm too cynical to be bitten).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Utter garbage. What the heck did northern fisherman do that was their own fault? It was the CFP which enforced quotas, quotas which Spain and France frequently contravene. And by the way every state of the EU is forced to sign the CAP which props up a medieval French economy. Basically the EU's economics are built to subsidize France. The only reason Britain was admitted in 1973 was because the French had introduced the CAP to benefit their agriculture sector (to the detriment of everyone else). Heath sold out our maritime economy whilst the French altered the EC to benefit their economy. That was why de Gaulle said ''non'' earlier, as he was afraid that Britain's rural industry would outperform France's. By 1972 France had altered the playing field. 

All those fishermen are dead by now. How is this relevant to actual real working people in 2020?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Utter garbage. What the heck did northern fisherman do that was their own fault?

Before the Common Fishing Policy was enacted fish stocks in North England were depleting due to a lack of oversight and proper governance. Basically, the fishermen were allowed to fish too much. The result was decimating fish populations that would have resulted in longterm damage to ecosystems and an even worse hit to the fishing communities as they would eventually have to find other jobs as there would be no fish left. CFP enacted stricter fishing quotes that allowed the fish populations to survive and even recover (like the cod populations have done) which basically saved the future for the fishing communities. If it weren't for CFP and their sustainable policies you would have been worse off today than you are. And then you would only have yourselves to thank for your stupid misery. You basically couldn't manage the fishing yourself and when proper management took over and the fish quotas were reduced to allow for sustainable, long-term harvest, you turn on your savior and put the blame on them for what would have happened anyway. As I said, pathetic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly think all politicians are scumbags and thats why I'll never vote, I don't trust em.  Its not even their fault in a sense, its just a human failing, power just corrupts and everyones out for themselves, there are no heroes or decent men looking to lead the masses through the wilderness like fuckin' Moses, everyones on an earner...and your working classes and middle classes are no better either, everyone votes with self interest, a working class mucker makes a bit of fuckin' coin and all of a sudden he's worried about Labour fuckin' taxing his new found income bracket...people don't vote according to whats morally right and correct, they do it over money, keeping their little stash safe and growing, thats all its about.  And why not, I'm not here to fuckin' take some moral high ground, I just hate the fuckin' hypocrisy and having all this smoke blown up my arse about people caring for fuckin' Britain or its people, its just fuckin' patronising. 

But anyone that seriously believes people like Boris and Farage and Corbo', these awful smug over-fed weasels dishing out platitudes and phoney fuckin' promises, ugh, they just make my fuckin' skin crawl.  Its just like the streets.  Worse even.  When you're on road the fuckin' governing principle is to work out peoples angle...and thats how this politics shit works too, everyones got a fuckin' angle and at the end of the long and winding road is a pot of money they're hoping for.  They don't even hide it well anymore, politicians.  Scumbags, to a man, the once that make it to prominence.  I don't doubt that there are like, local fuckin' wet behind the ears jobbies who start off with good intentions and a clean heart but to get to any kind of place with it you've got to compromise compromise compromise, kow-tow and crawl and basically, sell out your fuckin' ldeals.  I think people approach voting with a dangerous naivety.  'Farage Cares', course he fuckin' does.  The narratives constructed around these people are right out of fuckin' Ladybird childrens books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I honestly think all politicians are scumbags and thats why I'll never vote, I don't trust em.  Its not even their fault in a sense, its just a human failing, power just corrupts and everyones out for themselves

Then vote on unknown, new and uncorrupted politicians then :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Before the Common Fishing Policy was enacted fish stocks in North England were depleting due to a lack of oversight and proper governance. Basically, the fishermen were allowed to fish too much. The result was decimating fish populations that would have resulted in longterm damage to ecosystems and an even worse hit to the fishing communities as they would eventually have to find other jobs as there would be no fish left. CFP enacted stricter fishing quotes that allowed the fish populations to survive and even recover (like the cod populations have done) which basically saved the future for the fishing communities. If it weren't for CFP and their sustainable policies you would have been worse off today than you are. And then you would only have yourselves to thank for your stupid misery. You basically couldn't manage the fishing yourself and when proper management took over and the fish quotas were reduced to allow for sustainable, long-term harvest, you turn on your savior and put the blame on them for what would have happened anyway. As I said, pathetic.

You do realise that the British capture fish that die and then have to be thrown back in the sea because of EU regulations. Meanwhile the French and Spanish fisherman, who are also supposed to abide by the CFP, routinely sail into our waters and contravene the CFP at every opportunity. You know nothing and are speaking complete cobblers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...