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Gracii Guns

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Where I come from is if somebody bums you up the arse you don't thank them (by voting for them) later - equally I wouldn't expect the Scots to vote Tory. The EU crippled one of the hardest working sectors of our economy whilst rigging the rules - and contravening the very rules they set - reducing coastal communities to ghost towns. These communities are still struggling. To support the EU is tantamount to treason. It is supporting your own humiliation. 

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You do realise that the British capture fish that die and then have to be thrown back in the sea because of EU regulations. 

What I know is that since the CFP were introduced cod stocks in North England have increased again and been saved from doom. Yay! :) Now, after Brexit, I fear that selfish North England fishermen will again over-fish. Hopefully, politicians in London will put similar quotas as were introduced from CFP, but I am not sure it will happen. It is simply much easier for more distant politicians to make rational, sustainable decisions than politicians closer to people who will suffer short-term for ecologically unsound policies.

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Where I come from is if somebody bums you up the arse you don't thank them (by voting for them) later 

This is wrong on so many level. As I have already explained, the CFP probably saved your fishing communities from complete devastation when you couldn't control yourself. Secondly, even if you are right and the CFP made the situation worse, it would still make sense to vote for the economically best alternative this time around. Or have you simply adopted it as a habit to make wrong decisions (first by joining the EU which, in your opinion, crippled the fisheries, and then by leaving the EU at a time when it only made sense to remain)? Thirdly, voting to remain (or leave) is about what is best for you, not a "thank you" or a "fuck you" to the EU -- it is like you are entirely blinded by butthurtness over completely imaginary slights against your beloved fishing communities.

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Well thats just bad manners :lol:

He just pays them and leaves quickly.

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This reminds me of what I have said before, Diesel: you don't really care about the outcome of the EU. You just want to get back at the EU for what you believe they have done to you before. That's why you don't really care about the economic impact and have such weak arguments. You just want revenge :lol: Entirely selfish and destructive, properly insane.

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if there's anything destructive, it's EU policies with it's forced destruction of food, the exaggerate focus on the rights of criminals (leading to many proven criminals to leave the court as a free man), and the exorbitant taxes on EU member states, on top of national taxes. Then, europe "forces" EU states to accept refugees regardless if there's even room to receive them, and impose huge penalties if these quota aren't met.

the EU is a proper cancer, with the sole intention of making the rich richer, benefit the economy and destroying our environment in the process. it literally has no benefit whatsoever.

I can not wrap my head around, how you can at the same time be a climate activist and a EU supporter. Both effectively cancel each other out

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Also the EU puts in place tariff walls between it and the developing world, depriving some of the poorest areas of the world, Africa and South America, of ''fair trade'' practices. And then you have the utterly abhorrent treatment of Greece and to a lesser extent Italy. The EU is truly one of the most repellent institutions ever created. I am glad to see the back of it.

21 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

This reminds me of what I have said before, Diesel: you don't really care about the outcome of the EU. You just want to get back at the EU for what you believe they have done to you before. That's why you don't really care about the economic impact and have such weak arguments. You just want revenge :lol: Entirely selfish and destructive, properly insane.

None of that is true.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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31 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

This is wrong on so many level. As I have already explained, the CFP probably saved your fishing communities from complete devastation when you couldn't control yourself. Secondly, even if you are right and the CFP made the situation worse, it would still make sense to vote for the economically best alternative this time around. Or have you simply adopted it as a habit to make wrong decisions (first by joining the EU which, in your opinion, crippled the fisheries, and then by leaving the EU at a time when it only made sense to remain)? Thirdly, voting to remain (or leave) is about what is best for you, not a "thank you" or a "fuck you" to the EU -- it is like you are entirely blinded by butthurtness over completely imaginary slights against your beloved fishing communities.

I'd hope a sustainable policy would be put in place which does not see dead fish returned to the ocean because of bureaucracy.

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the EEC - the european ECONOMIC community

all the EU cares about, is the economy. to BENEFIT the economy. 

More economy = less environment by definition. As the economy needs natural resources to grow, an increase in economic growth is an increase in environmental destruction.

The EU is a cancer, there is no different way about it.

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The one thing that astonishes me about this whole debate is the level of class disdain - and this has surprised me. This isn't traditional British class disdain as practiced by the upper classes against anyone beneath them, but an economic class hatred practiced by the urban middle classes against the working classes for voting differently to them. The people who voted Brexit, many of them working class, have been called ''racist'', ''ignorant'', ''gammons'', ''uneducated'', ''Little Englanders'', ''Nazis'', ''Fascists'', ''neo-imperialists'', ''yokels'', ''old fogeys'' - basically every vile insult one could fathom. They have been told, ''they didn't know what they voted for'' (Although neither working class nor in the technical sense a ''leaver'' I have seen very few remainers who have as much knowledge on the EU, its constitution and workings, as I do). They have been told that they, ''hanker for the British Empire''. In this very thread, when it is pointed out that an entire economic industry was destroyed by the EU, there is not an ounce of sympathy and instead an expectation that these people should have voted for their executioner! There is very little sympathy for Greece and Italy. I have been criticised by Dazey for not discussing economics yet here I am discussing economics. Let's start with the CAP which was put in place before Britain's admittance to artificially prop up France's archaic and flagging farming industry (vis-à-vis Britain's farming industry). Let's start with that, should we?

I'll get no reply. 

And what do we have when we look at the European Union? Dodgy bankers. Stockbrokers. Bureaucrats. People like Junker who turned Luxembourg into a tax dodge haven. We look at the EU's supporters? George Soros, ''The Man who Broke the Bank of England'', Black Wednesday fame. It is obvious that the EU and its British appendage, remainism, is all about protecting the status quo of an economically enriched metropolitan class against an economical malnourished working and/or rural class. And this metropolitan class have furthermore adopted its own modern-liberal culture, zealous environmentalism, woke and race politics - ''the art of accusation'', by which everybody in disagreement is deemed a ''racist''. Hitler analogies are thrown around like confetti. They seem surprised and genuinely aggrieved that these politics are not so much a concern elsewhere in the country, in working class segments and/or rural areas.

The EU is about erecting barriers of economic disparity between a metropolitan elite and those less fortunate. It is a monstrously amoral system the British have left.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Why is that in any way surprising to you?

Both the level of vitriol leveled at leave voters, as well as the derailment and circumnavigation of a democrat mandate has surprised me. Upon the latter, remain - and I'm including Parliament here and not just a bunch of wankers on twitter - did not abide by ''loser's consent''. 

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15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Let's start with the CAP which was put in place before Britain's admittance to artificially prop up France's archaic and flagging farming industry (vis-à-vis Britain's farming industry). Let's start with that, should we?

I'll get no reply. 

Yes you will. The CAP was implemented in 1962 which is nearly 60 years ago. How exactly is that relevant to somebody voting in a referendum in 2016? The people implemented it and who were most badly affected by it are mostly dead or long since retired.

Edited by Dazey
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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Yes you will. The CAP was implemented in 1962 which is nearly 60 years ago. How exactly is that relevant to somebody voting in a referendum in 2016? The people implemented it and who were most badly affected by it are mostly dead or long since retired.

You do not seem to realise that the CAP is still  in operation now. It still artificially subsidizes French agriculture. It is in operation as we speak.

The CAP/CFP were not introduced as an one-off events haha.

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10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You do not seem to realise that the CAP is still  in operation now. It still artificially subsidizes French agriculture. It is in operation as we speak.

The CAP/CFP were not introduced as an one-off events haha.

I'm well aware that both are still in operation now. My point is that the major impact to UK agriculture was back in the 60's and 70's and therefore simply voting to leave based on a need for revenge against the long dead culprits on behalf of the long dead victims makes you look a little silly. The question you need to ask is do your actions improve the lot of modern day farmers and fisherman and the answer is very likely not and it will more than likely make things worse in both instances. Wait until you start talking about trade deals with the US as well and things are going to get a lot grimmer for these industries.

Edited by Dazey
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Without factoring in the Climate Crisis, a conversation about fisheries is out of context. The polar ice caps are fresh water and they are melting into the ocean. The amount of fresh water entering the salt water ecosystem may very well have catastrophic impacts on sea life. BoJo will negotiate a bunch of new neoliberal trade deals to replace the previous neoliberal trade agreements. Neoliberalism is killing the planet. By the time you've negotiated to sell your fish to Canada, the very economic system the deal is premised on may well have destroyed the fisheries all over again.

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

The one thing that astonishes me about this whole debate is the level of class disdain

 

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

And what do we have when we look at the European Union? Dodgy bankers. Stockbrokers. Bureaucrats. People like Junker who turned Luxembourg into a tax dodge haven. We look at the EU's supporters? George Soros, ''The Man who Broke the Bank of England'', Black Wednesday fame. It is obvious that the EU and its British appendage, remainism, is all about protecting the status quo of an economically enriched metropolitan class against an economical malnourished working and/or rural class. And this metropolitan class have furthermore adopted its own modern-liberal culture, zealous environmentalism, woke and race politics - ''the art of accusation'', by which everybody in disagreement is deemed a ''racist''. Hitler analogies are thrown around like confetti.

:lol:

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

In this very thread, when it is pointed out that an entire economic industry was destroyed by the EU, there is not an ounce of sympathy and instead an expectation that these people should have voted for their executioner!

What is funny is that you seem to have no care for the millions of people who will suffer economically because of Brexit yet keep ranting about something that affected a few hundred thousand (less?) in the 1960s :lol: And you admonish us for not caring about people. Hilarious. 

Besides, as pointed out before, the fisher communities were about to destroy their own livelihoods. With Brexit, about half of the Brits will suffer economically because of a bad decision by the other half. 

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7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What is funny is that you seem to have no care for the millions of people who will suffer economically because of Brexit yet keep ranting about something that affected a few hundred thousand (less?) in the 1960s :lol: And you admonish us for not caring about people. Hilarious. 

Besides, as pointed out before, the fisher communities were about to destroy their own livelihoods. With Brexit, about half of the Brits will suffer economically because of a bad decision by the other half. 

This is absolute lunacy I just can't understand. You have a grievance against the EU for damaging the UK farming and fishing industries so obviously the sensible course of action is to support a policy that will further damage the UK farming and fishing industries. :lol:

tenor.gif

Edited by Dazey
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Bunch of fuckin' slack jawed yokels! :lol: 

Partying Bolton Brexiteers attempt to set EU flag on fire... but fail because of European fire regulations

The mishap was caught on camera outside Bolton town hall

0_fire-brexit-rev-472452.jpg

A group of partying Bolton Brexiteers attempted to set an EU flag alight - but failed due to European fireproofing regulations.

The group tried to light the flag as the country left the union, but their attempts were thwarted as the flames quickly flickered out and the material simply melted.

Onlookers reckon revellers forgot - or didn't know about - European fire safety regulations, which require flags to be fire-retardant.

The painstaking efforts continued until the group eventually gave up.

They tore it up instead.

The group were among around 100 Brexiteers gathered in Bolton town centre last night to watch the bells bong in celebration of Brexit.

0_fire-brexit-rev-472454.jpg

A bystander, who asked not to be named, said he saw the men hold up the flag and attempt to ignite it with a lighter while singing God Save The Queen, but gave up after a few attempts.

“There were a few people here and there but it was more or less deserted," he said.

0_fire-brexit-rev-472455.jpg

“I saw a group of people holding up a flag and they tried to light it repeatedly with a lighter but failed.

“They were singing God Saves The Queen - but a few of them were struggling to remember the words.

“After it failed to light up, they gave up and continued celebrating.”

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/partying-bolton-brexiteers-attempt-set-17671861

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the same people who are arguing in favor of climate regulations in the thunberg thread, are the same people who are enthusiastically advocating in favor of more european union.

I wonder, which subject are they more oblivious of: the climate, or europe, or both. Because the main cause for climate change (according to themselves), is too much CO2, so therefore too much economy, but that's what the EU was created for: more economy!

my stance is: less europe, less economy, which will result in less CO2 emissions and thus benefit the climate. everyone happy, except the rich, the plane traveling businessmen and smoking room socialists

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1 hour ago, Dazey said:

I'm well aware that both are still in operation now. My point is that the major impact to UK agriculture was back in the 60's and 70's and therefore simply voting to leave based on a need for revenge against the long dead culprits on behalf of the long dead victims makes you look a little silly. The question you need to ask is do your actions improve the lot of modern day farmers and fisherman and the answer is very likely not and it will more than likely make things worse in both instances. Wait until you start talking about trade deals with the US as well and things are going to get a lot grimmer for these industries.

You are basically saying that we should live happily and content within our prohibitions, under the idea that those industries could not possible proliferate even if those industries were liberated from those prohibitions. Our fishing industry still exists. 

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