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Just now, SoulMonster said:

If these communities are filled with poor people without jobs, then yes. They should have voted remain. Now the poor sods are worse off.

You are requesting people to vote for their very destroyer, the source of their economic woes. Do you think they are really that idiotic? 

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Britain will democratically vote her government out and elect another. We cannot turf out the unelected EU Commission, nor the President of the Council. 

Yes, parts of EU governance is not electable. Similarly, parts of UK governance is also not electable. That being said, you have pointed at a weakness of the EU.

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3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Perhaps I'm just a very cynical chappie but I don't buy that for a second.  Corbo, Boris, Farage, they're all just populist wankers, they don't believe in any of this shit, I mean its obvious in the way that they flip flop.  Brexit on the whole, the referendum, was just a bunch of hooting and hollering by the Tories, trying to get a certain demographic onside, everyone was totally blindsided by the vote actually coming out on the side of leave, it fucked em all up, thats why Cameron did a runner after setting this shit up. 

Boris is a thorough opportunist but you are very much mistaken on Farage who has campaigned against the EU since Black Wednesday. 

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The whole thing kinda reminds me of New Labour coming about.  Everyone (or a fair few) was celebrating and my overriding feeling at the time was like...who are these fuckin' cunts, its like we'd fuckin' won something and its like please, they ain't gonna do fuck all.  And nor is Brexit I suspect, without being someone whoose fuckin' got all the political savvy to be able to argue it out.

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

You are requesting people to vote for their very destroyer, the source of their economic woes. Do you think they are really that idiotic? 

The intelligent thing to do is always to vote in your best interest and not let rationality be clouded by stupid bitterness.

That being said, the woes of the fisher communities in North England is mostly their own fault. But typically they focus on blaming someone else. Pathetic.

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Just now, SoulMonster said:

The intelligent thing to do is always to vote in your best interest and not let rationality be clouded by stupid bitterness.

That being said, the woes of the fisher communities in North England is mostly their own fault. But typically they focus on blaming someone else. Pathetic.

Utter garbage. What the heck did northern fisherman do that was their own fault? It was the CFP which enforced quotas, quotas which Spain and France frequently contravene. And by the way every state of the EU is forced to sign the CAP which props up a medieval French economy. Basically the EU's economics are built to subsidize France. The only reason Britain was admitted in 1973 was because the French had introduced the CAP to benefit their agriculture sector (to the detriment of everyone else). Heath sold out our maritime economy whilst the French altered the EC to benefit their economy. That was why de Gaulle said ''non'' earlier, as he was afraid that Britain's rural industry would outperform France's. By 1972 France had altered the playing field. 

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6 minutes ago, Dazey said:

The downside being that you've now given him a blank cheque for the next 5 years.

I'm looking at the bigger picture, longer term. It's up to him to show he can run the country to an acceptable level..... he can be kicked out in 5 years.

Getting out of the EU was a once in a generation opportunity, 5 years is fuck all.

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If Boris reopens the Northumberland train connection with Newcastle which was closed by Beeching, I'd vote for Boris on every occasion, and buy his tea towel.

(I am under no impression that this ''northern boost'' will happen by the way which is why I said ''if''. I'm too cynical to be bitten).

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5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Utter garbage. What the heck did northern fisherman do that was their own fault? It was the CFP which enforced quotas, quotas which Spain and France frequently contravene. And by the way every state of the EU is forced to sign the CAP which props up a medieval French economy. Basically the EU's economics are built to subsidize France. The only reason Britain was admitted in 1973 was because the French had introduced the CAP to benefit their agriculture sector (to the detriment of everyone else). Heath sold out our maritime economy whilst the French altered the EC to benefit their economy. That was why de Gaulle said ''non'' earlier, as he was afraid that Britain's rural industry would outperform France's. By 1972 France had altered the playing field. 

All those fishermen are dead by now. How is this relevant to actual real working people in 2020?

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Utter garbage. What the heck did northern fisherman do that was their own fault?

Before the Common Fishing Policy was enacted fish stocks in North England were depleting due to a lack of oversight and proper governance. Basically, the fishermen were allowed to fish too much. The result was decimating fish populations that would have resulted in longterm damage to ecosystems and an even worse hit to the fishing communities as they would eventually have to find other jobs as there would be no fish left. CFP enacted stricter fishing quotes that allowed the fish populations to survive and even recover (like the cod populations have done) which basically saved the future for the fishing communities. If it weren't for CFP and their sustainable policies you would have been worse off today than you are. And then you would only have yourselves to thank for your stupid misery. You basically couldn't manage the fishing yourself and when proper management took over and the fish quotas were reduced to allow for sustainable, long-term harvest, you turn on your savior and put the blame on them for what would have happened anyway. As I said, pathetic.

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I honestly think all politicians are scumbags and thats why I'll never vote, I don't trust em.  Its not even their fault in a sense, its just a human failing, power just corrupts and everyones out for themselves, there are no heroes or decent men looking to lead the masses through the wilderness like fuckin' Moses, everyones on an earner...and your working classes and middle classes are no better either, everyone votes with self interest, a working class mucker makes a bit of fuckin' coin and all of a sudden he's worried about Labour fuckin' taxing his new found income bracket...people don't vote according to whats morally right and correct, they do it over money, keeping their little stash safe and growing, thats all its about.  And why not, I'm not here to fuckin' take some moral high ground, I just hate the fuckin' hypocrisy and having all this smoke blown up my arse about people caring for fuckin' Britain or its people, its just fuckin' patronising. 

But anyone that seriously believes people like Boris and Farage and Corbo', these awful smug over-fed weasels dishing out platitudes and phoney fuckin' promises, ugh, they just make my fuckin' skin crawl.  Its just like the streets.  Worse even.  When you're on road the fuckin' governing principle is to work out peoples angle...and thats how this politics shit works too, everyones got a fuckin' angle and at the end of the long and winding road is a pot of money they're hoping for.  They don't even hide it well anymore, politicians.  Scumbags, to a man, the once that make it to prominence.  I don't doubt that there are like, local fuckin' wet behind the ears jobbies who start off with good intentions and a clean heart but to get to any kind of place with it you've got to compromise compromise compromise, kow-tow and crawl and basically, sell out your fuckin' ldeals.  I think people approach voting with a dangerous naivety.  'Farage Cares', course he fuckin' does.  The narratives constructed around these people are right out of fuckin' Ladybird childrens books.

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

All those fishermen are dead by now. How is this relevant to actual real working people in 2020?

No they are not! And the communities still exist!

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I honestly think all politicians are scumbags and thats why I'll never vote, I don't trust em.  Its not even their fault in a sense, its just a human failing, power just corrupts and everyones out for themselves

Then vote on unknown, new and uncorrupted politicians then :)

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1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Before the Common Fishing Policy was enacted fish stocks in North England were depleting due to a lack of oversight and proper governance. Basically, the fishermen were allowed to fish too much. The result was decimating fish populations that would have resulted in longterm damage to ecosystems and an even worse hit to the fishing communities as they would eventually have to find other jobs as there would be no fish left. CFP enacted stricter fishing quotes that allowed the fish populations to survive and even recover (like the cod populations have done) which basically saved the future for the fishing communities. If it weren't for CFP and their sustainable policies you would have been worse off today than you are. And then you would only have yourselves to thank for your stupid misery. You basically couldn't manage the fishing yourself and when proper management took over and the fish quotas were reduced to allow for sustainable, long-term harvest, you turn on your savior and put the blame on them for what would have happened anyway. As I said, pathetic.

You do realise that the British capture fish that die and then have to be thrown back in the sea because of EU regulations. Meanwhile the French and Spanish fisherman, who are also supposed to abide by the CFP, routinely sail into our waters and contravene the CFP at every opportunity. You know nothing and are speaking complete cobblers. 

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

You do realise that the British capture fish that die and then have to be thrown back in the sea because of EU regulations.

I'd just nick em :lol:

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3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

No they are not! And the communities still exist!

Really? You've got a bunch of fishermen who were working in the late 60's still fishing today?

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Where I come from is if somebody bums you up the arse you don't thank them (by voting for them) later - equally I wouldn't expect the Scots to vote Tory. The EU crippled one of the hardest working sectors of our economy whilst rigging the rules - and contravening the very rules they set - reducing coastal communities to ghost towns. These communities are still struggling. To support the EU is tantamount to treason. It is supporting your own humiliation. 

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You do realise that the British capture fish that die and then have to be thrown back in the sea because of EU regulations. 

What I know is that since the CFP were introduced cod stocks in North England have increased again and been saved from doom. Yay! :) Now, after Brexit, I fear that selfish North England fishermen will again over-fish. Hopefully, politicians in London will put similar quotas as were introduced from CFP, but I am not sure it will happen. It is simply much easier for more distant politicians to make rational, sustainable decisions than politicians closer to people who will suffer short-term for ecologically unsound policies.

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4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Where I come from is if somebody bums you up the arse you don't thank them

Well thats just bad manners :lol:

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Where I come from is if somebody bums you up the arse you don't thank them (by voting for them) later 

This is wrong on so many level. As I have already explained, the CFP probably saved your fishing communities from complete devastation when you couldn't control yourself. Secondly, even if you are right and the CFP made the situation worse, it would still make sense to vote for the economically best alternative this time around. Or have you simply adopted it as a habit to make wrong decisions (first by joining the EU which, in your opinion, crippled the fisheries, and then by leaving the EU at a time when it only made sense to remain)? Thirdly, voting to remain (or leave) is about what is best for you, not a "thank you" or a "fuck you" to the EU -- it is like you are entirely blinded by butthurtness over completely imaginary slights against your beloved fishing communities.

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Well thats just bad manners :lol:

He just pays them and leaves quickly.

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This reminds me of what I have said before, Diesel: you don't really care about the outcome of the EU. You just want to get back at the EU for what you believe they have done to you before. That's why you don't really care about the economic impact and have such weak arguments. You just want revenge :lol: Entirely selfish and destructive, properly insane.

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if there's anything destructive, it's EU policies with it's forced destruction of food, the exaggerate focus on the rights of criminals (leading to many proven criminals to leave the court as a free man), and the exorbitant taxes on EU member states, on top of national taxes. Then, europe "forces" EU states to accept refugees regardless if there's even room to receive them, and impose huge penalties if these quota aren't met.

the EU is a proper cancer, with the sole intention of making the rich richer, benefit the economy and destroying our environment in the process. it literally has no benefit whatsoever.

I can not wrap my head around, how you can at the same time be a climate activist and a EU supporter. Both effectively cancel each other out

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Also the EU puts in place tariff walls between it and the developing world, depriving some of the poorest areas of the world, Africa and South America, of ''fair trade'' practices. And then you have the utterly abhorrent treatment of Greece and to a lesser extent Italy. The EU is truly one of the most repellent institutions ever created. I am glad to see the back of it.

21 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

This reminds me of what I have said before, Diesel: you don't really care about the outcome of the EU. You just want to get back at the EU for what you believe they have done to you before. That's why you don't really care about the economic impact and have such weak arguments. You just want revenge :lol: Entirely selfish and destructive, properly insane.

None of that is true.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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31 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

This is wrong on so many level. As I have already explained, the CFP probably saved your fishing communities from complete devastation when you couldn't control yourself. Secondly, even if you are right and the CFP made the situation worse, it would still make sense to vote for the economically best alternative this time around. Or have you simply adopted it as a habit to make wrong decisions (first by joining the EU which, in your opinion, crippled the fisheries, and then by leaving the EU at a time when it only made sense to remain)? Thirdly, voting to remain (or leave) is about what is best for you, not a "thank you" or a "fuck you" to the EU -- it is like you are entirely blinded by butthurtness over completely imaginary slights against your beloved fishing communities.

I'd hope a sustainable policy would be put in place which does not see dead fish returned to the ocean because of bureaucracy.

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the EEC - the european ECONOMIC community

all the EU cares about, is the economy. to BENEFIT the economy. 

More economy = less environment by definition. As the economy needs natural resources to grow, an increase in economic growth is an increase in environmental destruction.

The EU is a cancer, there is no different way about it.

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