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The one thing that astonishes me about this whole debate is the level of class disdain - and this has surprised me. This isn't traditional British class disdain as practiced by the upper classes against anyone beneath them, but an economic class hatred practiced by the urban middle classes against the working classes for voting differently to them. The people who voted Brexit, many of them working class, have been called ''racist'', ''ignorant'', ''gammons'', ''uneducated'', ''Little Englanders'', ''Nazis'', ''Fascists'', ''neo-imperialists'', ''yokels'', ''old fogeys'' - basically every vile insult one could fathom. They have been told, ''they didn't know what they voted for'' (Although neither working class nor in the technical sense a ''leaver'' I have seen very few remainers who have as much knowledge on the EU, its constitution and workings, as I do). They have been told that they, ''hanker for the British Empire''. In this very thread, when it is pointed out that an entire economic industry was destroyed by the EU, there is not an ounce of sympathy and instead an expectation that these people should have voted for their executioner! There is very little sympathy for Greece and Italy. I have been criticised by Dazey for not discussing economics yet here I am discussing economics. Let's start with the CAP which was put in place before Britain's admittance to artificially prop up France's archaic and flagging farming industry (vis-à-vis Britain's farming industry). Let's start with that, should we?

I'll get no reply. 

And what do we have when we look at the European Union? Dodgy bankers. Stockbrokers. Bureaucrats. People like Junker who turned Luxembourg into a tax dodge haven. We look at the EU's supporters? George Soros, ''The Man who Broke the Bank of England'', Black Wednesday fame. It is obvious that the EU and its British appendage, remainism, is all about protecting the status quo of an economically enriched metropolitan class against an economical malnourished working and/or rural class. And this metropolitan class have furthermore adopted its own modern-liberal culture, zealous environmentalism, woke and race politics - ''the art of accusation'', by which everybody in disagreement is deemed a ''racist''. Hitler analogies are thrown around like confetti. They seem surprised and genuinely aggrieved that these politics are not so much a concern elsewhere in the country, in working class segments and/or rural areas.

The EU is about erecting barriers of economic disparity between a metropolitan elite and those less fortunate. It is a monstrously amoral system the British have left.

Edited by DieselDaisy

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but an economic class hatred practiced by the urban middle classes against the working classes

Why is that in any way surprising to you?

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Why is that in any way surprising to you?

Both the level of vitriol leveled at leave voters, as well as the derailment and circumnavigation of a democrat mandate has surprised me. Upon the latter, remain - and I'm including Parliament here and not just a bunch of wankers on twitter - did not abide by ''loser's consent''. 

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15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Let's start with the CAP which was put in place before Britain's admittance to artificially prop up France's archaic and flagging farming industry (vis-à-vis Britain's farming industry). Let's start with that, should we?

I'll get no reply. 

Yes you will. The CAP was implemented in 1962 which is nearly 60 years ago. How exactly is that relevant to somebody voting in a referendum in 2016? The people implemented it and who were most badly affected by it are mostly dead or long since retired.

Edited by Dazey

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Yes you will. The CAP was implemented in 1962 which is nearly 60 years ago. How exactly is that relevant to somebody voting in a referendum in 2016? The people implemented it and who were most badly affected by it are mostly dead or long since retired.

You do not seem to realise that the CAP is still  in operation now. It still artificially subsidizes French agriculture. It is in operation as we speak.

The CAP/CFP were not introduced as an one-off events haha.

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10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You do not seem to realise that the CAP is still  in operation now. It still artificially subsidizes French agriculture. It is in operation as we speak.

The CAP/CFP were not introduced as an one-off events haha.

I'm well aware that both are still in operation now. My point is that the major impact to UK agriculture was back in the 60's and 70's and therefore simply voting to leave based on a need for revenge against the long dead culprits on behalf of the long dead victims makes you look a little silly. The question you need to ask is do your actions improve the lot of modern day farmers and fisherman and the answer is very likely not and it will more than likely make things worse in both instances. Wait until you start talking about trade deals with the US as well and things are going to get a lot grimmer for these industries.

Edited by Dazey

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Without factoring in the Climate Crisis, a conversation about fisheries is out of context. The polar ice caps are fresh water and they are melting into the ocean. The amount of fresh water entering the salt water ecosystem may very well have catastrophic impacts on sea life. BoJo will negotiate a bunch of new neoliberal trade deals to replace the previous neoliberal trade agreements. Neoliberalism is killing the planet. By the time you've negotiated to sell your fish to Canada, the very economic system the deal is premised on may well have destroyed the fisheries all over again.

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

The one thing that astonishes me about this whole debate is the level of class disdain

 

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

And what do we have when we look at the European Union? Dodgy bankers. Stockbrokers. Bureaucrats. People like Junker who turned Luxembourg into a tax dodge haven. We look at the EU's supporters? George Soros, ''The Man who Broke the Bank of England'', Black Wednesday fame. It is obvious that the EU and its British appendage, remainism, is all about protecting the status quo of an economically enriched metropolitan class against an economical malnourished working and/or rural class. And this metropolitan class have furthermore adopted its own modern-liberal culture, zealous environmentalism, woke and race politics - ''the art of accusation'', by which everybody in disagreement is deemed a ''racist''. Hitler analogies are thrown around like confetti.

:lol:

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

In this very thread, when it is pointed out that an entire economic industry was destroyed by the EU, there is not an ounce of sympathy and instead an expectation that these people should have voted for their executioner!

What is funny is that you seem to have no care for the millions of people who will suffer economically because of Brexit yet keep ranting about something that affected a few hundred thousand (less?) in the 1960s :lol: And you admonish us for not caring about people. Hilarious. 

Besides, as pointed out before, the fisher communities were about to destroy their own livelihoods. With Brexit, about half of the Brits will suffer economically because of a bad decision by the other half. 

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7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What is funny is that you seem to have no care for the millions of people who will suffer economically because of Brexit yet keep ranting about something that affected a few hundred thousand (less?) in the 1960s :lol: And you admonish us for not caring about people. Hilarious. 

Besides, as pointed out before, the fisher communities were about to destroy their own livelihoods. With Brexit, about half of the Brits will suffer economically because of a bad decision by the other half. 

This is absolute lunacy I just can't understand. You have a grievance against the EU for damaging the UK farming and fishing industries so obviously the sensible course of action is to support a policy that will further damage the UK farming and fishing industries. :lol:

tenor.gif

Edited by Dazey

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Bunch of fuckin' slack jawed yokels! :lol: 

Partying Bolton Brexiteers attempt to set EU flag on fire... but fail because of European fire regulations

The mishap was caught on camera outside Bolton town hall

0_fire-brexit-rev-472452.jpg

A group of partying Bolton Brexiteers attempted to set an EU flag alight - but failed due to European fireproofing regulations.

The group tried to light the flag as the country left the union, but their attempts were thwarted as the flames quickly flickered out and the material simply melted.

Onlookers reckon revellers forgot - or didn't know about - European fire safety regulations, which require flags to be fire-retardant.

The painstaking efforts continued until the group eventually gave up.

They tore it up instead.

The group were among around 100 Brexiteers gathered in Bolton town centre last night to watch the bells bong in celebration of Brexit.

0_fire-brexit-rev-472454.jpg

A bystander, who asked not to be named, said he saw the men hold up the flag and attempt to ignite it with a lighter while singing God Save The Queen, but gave up after a few attempts.

“There were a few people here and there but it was more or less deserted," he said.

0_fire-brexit-rev-472455.jpg

“I saw a group of people holding up a flag and they tried to light it repeatedly with a lighter but failed.

“They were singing God Saves The Queen - but a few of them were struggling to remember the words.

“After it failed to light up, they gave up and continued celebrating.”

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/partying-bolton-brexiteers-attempt-set-17671861

  • Haha 2

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They were singing God Saves The Queen - but a few of them were struggling to remember the words.

There ain't that many words to it unless you're trying to sing the full original with the verses about doing Graemes lot over :lol:

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the same people who are arguing in favor of climate regulations in the thunberg thread, are the same people who are enthusiastically advocating in favor of more european union.

I wonder, which subject are they more oblivious of: the climate, or europe, or both. Because the main cause for climate change (according to themselves), is too much CO2, so therefore too much economy, but that's what the EU was created for: more economy!

my stance is: less europe, less economy, which will result in less CO2 emissions and thus benefit the climate. everyone happy, except the rich, the plane traveling businessmen and smoking room socialists

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1 hour ago, Dazey said:

I'm well aware that both are still in operation now. My point is that the major impact to UK agriculture was back in the 60's and 70's and therefore simply voting to leave based on a need for revenge against the long dead culprits on behalf of the long dead victims makes you look a little silly. The question you need to ask is do your actions improve the lot of modern day farmers and fisherman and the answer is very likely not and it will more than likely make things worse in both instances. Wait until you start talking about trade deals with the US as well and things are going to get a lot grimmer for these industries.

You are basically saying that we should live happily and content within our prohibitions, under the idea that those industries could not possible proliferate even if those industries were liberated from those prohibitions. Our fishing industry still exists. 

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32 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Bunch of fuckin' slack jawed yokels! :lol: 

Partying Bolton Brexiteers attempt to set EU flag on fire... but fail because of European fire regulations

The mishap was caught on camera outside Bolton town hall

0_fire-brexit-rev-472452.jpg

A group of partying Bolton Brexiteers attempted to set an EU flag alight - but failed due to European fireproofing regulations.

The group tried to light the flag as the country left the union, but their attempts were thwarted as the flames quickly flickered out and the material simply melted.

Onlookers reckon revellers forgot - or didn't know about - European fire safety regulations, which require flags to be fire-retardant.

The painstaking efforts continued until the group eventually gave up.

They tore it up instead.

The group were among around 100 Brexiteers gathered in Bolton town centre last night to watch the bells bong in celebration of Brexit.

0_fire-brexit-rev-472454.jpg

A bystander, who asked not to be named, said he saw the men hold up the flag and attempt to ignite it with a lighter while singing God Save The Queen, but gave up after a few attempts.

“There were a few people here and there but it was more or less deserted," he said.

0_fire-brexit-rev-472455.jpg

“I saw a group of people holding up a flag and they tried to light it repeatedly with a lighter but failed.

“They were singing God Saves The Queen - but a few of them were struggling to remember the words.

“After it failed to light up, they gave up and continued celebrating.”

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/partying-bolton-brexiteers-attempt-set-17671861

''All remainers are paedos'',

my-generation-book-launch-v-a-london-bri

See how easy it is, to selectively choose individuals from these two groupings, leaver and remainer, in order to stigmatise the entirety of them?

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53 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What is funny is that you seem to have no care for the millions of people who will suffer economically because of Brexit yet keep ranting about something that affected a few hundred thousand (less?) in the 1960s :lol: And you admonish us for not caring about people. Hilarious. 

Besides, as pointed out before, the fisher communities were about to destroy their own livelihoods. With Brexit, about half of the Brits will suffer economically because of a bad decision by the other half. 

No, I don't care about wealthy Islington based liberals as much as I do struggling coastal communities and post-industrial towns. The latter's needs are greater than the former.

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

No, I don't care about wealthy Islington based liberals as much as I do struggling coastal communities and post-industrial towns. The latter's needs are greater than the former.

Well you obviously don’t care about either. 

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Typical remainer,

hugh-grant-mugshot-mousepad-9.gif

Just now, Dazey said:

Well you obviously don’t care about either. 

Well I obviously do because I am the only one here who actually cares that the EU actively destroyed a segment of our country, whereas you and Soul merely laugh about it, and dismiss it.

The EU you support.  

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It is all about defending the status quo. The reason you, Dazey (and Soul as a sort of fellow traveler), are so defensive of a neo-liberal construct like the EU is you belong to the very class which benefits so greatly from it, and have also inherited the political mores of this class. It is therefore in your self interests to defend the status quo of the EU because that status quo materially benefits you. The reason you are so angry is that underclass have overturned this status quo. 

PS

 
How did you then?  Tell me?
Edited by DieselDaisy

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13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well I obviously do because I am the only one here who actually cares that the EU actively destroyed a segment of our country, whereas you and Soul merely laugh about it, and dismiss it.

The EU you support.  

Well obviously you don’t as you’re in favour of making things actively worse for that very segment in pursuit of some decades old vendetta. 

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Well obviously you don’t as you’re in favour of making things actively worse for that very segment in pursuit of some decades old vendetta. 

I obviously am as I am in favour of actually removing the CFP and liberating the industry rather than allowing the industry to endure under the hand of its executioner so it does not endanger a bunch of gap year Waitrose wankers, and on the ''vendetta'' point - which is utter bollocks - I have said a million times to you two that my opposition to the EU is multifaceted. In fact you could have discovered this if you read my big post earlier. 

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4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I obviously am as I am in favour of actually removing the CFP and liberating the industry rather than allowing the industry to endure under the hand of its executioner so it does not endanger a bunch of gap year Waitrose wankers, and on the ''vendetta'' point - which is utter bollocks - I have said a million times to you two that my opposition to the EU is multifaceted. In fact you could have discovered this if you read my big post earlier. 

Okay so let’s say you withdraw from the CFP because you won’t be removing it as it still has another 27 countries as members. What then? How does that actively make things better for UK fishermen?

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So, to follow up on Morgan's question, how the heck did you remainers lose to these ''thickos''?

You are all - as you love to remind everyone - ''better educated''. You are not ''yokels''. You are not ''racists'', ''fascists'' and similar. Your campaign was bankrolled by elites such as George Soros. People such as Tony Blair, Barack Obama - and a multitude of celebrity luvvies - supported your campaign. 27 European governments supported you. the EU itself naturally did. The Bank of England IMF/WB did. You had an entire Parliament who used every devious trick, circumnavigation and obstruction on your behalf. You had millionaires like Gina Miller dragging the whole thing through the courts.

Yet a bunch of northern thickos defeated you!

Glorious.

 

Edit

Just to add the media establishment, BBC, Channel 4, supported remain.

 

Edited by DieselDaisy

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

So, to follow up on Morgan's question, how the heck did you remainers lose to these ''thickos''?

You are all - as you love to remind everyone - ''better educated''. You are not ''yokels''. You are not ''racists'', ''fascists'' and similar. Your campaign was bankrolled by elites such as George Soros. People such as Tony Blair, Barack Obama - and a multitude of celebrity luvvies - supported your campaign. 27 European governments supported you. the EU itself naturally did. The Bank of England IMF/WB did. You had an entire Parliament who used every devious trick, circumnavigation and obstruction on your behalf. You had millionaires like Gina Miller dragging the whole thing through the courts.

Yet a bunch of northern thickos defeated you!

Glorious.

 

Still waiting for an explanation as to how things get better for UK fishermen. 

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