Len Cnut Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Dazey said: Thats cheered me up that has, cheers I presuming slag means something else in Dutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just now, Dazey said: The fishing argument is the worst excuse for leaving the EU I've heard because Brexit does absolutely nothing to rectify the problem. Even if we were to leave without a deal Iceland aren't suddenly going to allow us access to their waters again. No because they would be Icelandic waters. It is UK territorial waters we are discussing. French and Spanish fishermen would need to negotiated a deal to fish in UK territorial waters. Icelandic, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: But you see -- and Diesel have admitted as much -- this isn't rational it is about being angry at what happened ages ago. But as I said, if somebody rogers you up the arse you don't go and vote for them later. For a start you'd probably want the removal of the issue to begin with, the removal of the Common Fisheries Policy in this case. Would you expect (ex) miners to vote for Thatcher because, having destroyed the mining community, she was relocating occupations to the public service and aggrandising the middle class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I always wanted to be a fisherman. Not here though, somewhere where its fuckin' warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: No because they would be Icelandic waters. It is UK territorial waters we are discussing. French and Spanish fishermen would need to negotiated a deal to fish in UK territorial waters. Icelandic, The point is that before the EU, your fisher pals went outside of what is today the UK offshore marine area to catch their fish, they went to Icelandic waters, to Newfoundland, to the Arctic etc. They had to, because domestic stocks were depleted. After Brexit, your fishing pals simply can't do that any more because the rules have changed. They will be stuck with their own domestic marine area, and their own depleted stocks. 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Would you expect (ex) miners to vote for Thatcher because, having destroyed the mining community, she was relocating occupations to the public service and aggrandising the middle class? I would expect rational, intelligent people to do what is best for them and not act out of petulance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: But you see -- and Diesel have admitted as much -- this isn't rational it is about being angry at what happened ages ago. Which is why I don't get it. I mean this happened nearly half a century ago. Those jobs aren't coming back no matter how much we may want them to. Fucking up our economy now out of pure spite helps nobody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Quote I would expect rational, intelligent people to do what is best for them and not act out of petulance. There's no such thing as a rational mob. And thats all electorates are, mobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just now, SoulMonster said: The point is that before the EU, your fisher pals went outside of what is today the UK offshore marine area to catch their fish, they went to Icelandic waters, to Newfoundland, to the Arctic etc. They had to, because domestic stocks were depleted. After Brexit, your fishing pals simply can't do that any more because the rules have changed. They will be stuck with their own domestic marine area, and their own depleted stocks. It is not so much that stocks are depleted per se but that the British do not consume in great quantities the fish caught in British territorial waters, pollock, shellfish and such like, so that they're either thrown back, to be caught by Spanish and French fisherman, or sold as exports. The British basically confine themselves to Cod and Haddock - Mackerel a bit also. I have been advocating the consumption of alternative fish for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: No because they would be Icelandic waters. It is UK territorial waters we are discussing. French and Spanish fishermen would need to negotiated a deal to fish in UK territorial waters. But it wasn't French and Spanish fishermen fishing in our waters that caused the decline of the UK fishing industry. It was limits on UK fishermen's access to other countries waters. Again, Brexit solves none of this. Edited January 18, 2019 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: There's no such thing as a rational mob. And thats all electorates are, mobs. You are such a cynic I am sure that among the fishing dudes there will be someone who thinks about what is best for their children, and not just about this big old grudge from years gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dazey said: Which is why I don't get it. I mean this happened nearly half a century ago. Those jobs aren't coming back no matter how much we may want them to. Fucking up our economy now out of pure spite helps nobody. Their economy is already fucked up. The EU destroyed their economy and community. It would be like asking the Jews to vote for Hitler because he built an autobahn in their locality. Generally I operate on the premise that if somebody buggers you up the jacksy you don't turn around and thank them later. I believe most follow a similar belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Would you expect (ex) miners to vote for Thatcher because, having destroyed the mining community, she was relocating occupations to the public service and aggrandising the middle class? Would I expect ex miners to vote for Thatcher? Well not really since that all happened 35 years ago and she's dead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: You are such a cynic I am sure that among the fishing dudes there will be someone who thinks about what is best for their children, and not just about this big old grudge from years gone. Human beings are saintly as individuals, animals in packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: Their economy is already fucked up. The EU destroyed their economy and community. It would be like asking the Jews to vote for Hitler because he built an autobahn in their locality. Generally I operate on the premise that if somebody buggers you up the jacksy you don't turn around and thank them later. I believe most follow a similar belief. So you have no argument. Leaving the EU will hurt us even more but that's okay because your arse is still stinging from a 50 year old buggering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dazey said: But it wasn't French and Spanish fishermen fishing in our waters that caused the decline of the UK fishing industry. It was limits on UK fishermen's access to other countries waters. Again, Brexit solves none of this. I know first-hand that the British have to throw away their catch because of European regulations, whilst watching - in actual fact it is you Norwegian wankers, North Sea - Norwegians come into our waters and trawl the surface. In actual fact British fishermen are prohibited how many times they can fish, depart for sea - regulations are that stringent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Len Cnut said: Human beings are saintly as individuals, animals in packs. There is certainly some truth to that. But voting is fortunately an individual thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I know first-hand that the British have to throw away their catch because of European regulations, whilst watching - in actual fact it is you Norwegian wankers, North Sea - Norwegians come into our waters and trawl the surface. In actual fact British fishermen are prohibited how many times they can fish, depart for sea - regulations are that stringent. He's from Redcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: I know first-hand that the British have to throw away their catch because of European regulations, whilst watching - in actual fact it is you Norwegian wankers, North Sea - Norwegians come into our waters and trawl the surface. In actual fact British fishermen are prohibited how many times they can fish, depart for sea - regulations are that stringent. Yay, we win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: There is certainly some truth to that. But voting is fortunately an individual thing. They get into packs to pick their side though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Dazey said: Would I expect ex miners to vote for Thatcher? Well not really since that all happened 35 years ago and she's dead. None of them vote Tory. Conservatism collapsed in former mining communities and has not resurfaced since. Conservatism in Scotland, hitherto a bastion of Toryism, collapsed and has also not resurfaced since. Presumably you find this all errant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Len Cnut said: He's from Redcar Which is/was a fishing port but boo fucking hoo it's not anymore which is why I worked hard at school and left. You'd think that some of these moaning fuckers would get the hint and give it a whirl too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just now, Dazey said: Which is/was a fishing port but boo fucking hoo it's not anymore which is why I worked hard at school and left. You'd think that some of these moaning fuckers would get the hint and give it a whirl too. They probably didn't want to leave because it was their home. So very arrogant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: None of them vote Tory. Conservatism collapsed in former mining communities and has not resurfaced since. Conservatism in Scotland, hitherto a bastion of Toryism, collapsed and has also not resurfaced since. Presumably you find this all errant? I find it irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Moreover, once again it doesn't justify making the country poorer just because people still harbour a grudge that their grandpappy got laid off 30 odd years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Dazey said: Which is/was a fishing port but boo fucking hoo it's not anymore which is why I worked hard at school and left. You'd think that some of these moaning fuckers would get the hint and give it a whirl too. Sorry, what? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just now, Dazey said: I find it irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Moreover, once again it doesn't justify making the country poorer just because people still harbour a grudge that their grandpappy got laid off 30 odd years ago. It isn't even a historic grudge when you live in a ghost town. You are still living with the repercussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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