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Unpopular opinion: NuGNR were better than this "reunion" of half measures.


Towelie

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11 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, that is the important thing to me, too. Classic guns existed in a limited period of time. It is now gone. It can't be recreated even if the same guys came back together. Because thye arent't really the same guys. Nor are we. The context has changed. They are distanced from who they were in the 80s, and so are we. It is gone and it is dead and long live the memories. So I couldn't care less if the lineup consists of 2 of those guys, or 3 of them, or even 5 - it still simply won't be the same. At least not to us who actually lived through that time and don't simply know the band from youtube and yearn for a period they never got to experience. The passion that drove them, the interplay that came fron hungry musicians living and breathing together, living under the streets, the raw feelings and controverses, lyrics that resonate with a specific time -- it can just never be recreated by these 5 guys again. It might superficially look like that band, or superficially sound like it, but it won't ever be that band. So if we want that real 1980s GN'R experience, with warts and all, we'd be better off with a lineup consisting of new hungry guys who resembled the band members back then, rather than a bunch of bloated, musical celebrities who come together from their mansions to do corporate nostalgia tours.

That's what I was hoping for with nuGuns. That it was comprised of guys who felt they had everything to prove. And felt the weight of the band legacy on their shoulders so that whatever they created would be good and interesting and take the band somewhere new. And with Axl there to create that important sonical connection to previous records. To make it an actual continuance. Now, with this lineup, I fear the best we can ever get is a live record from nostalgia tours. And I am happy for those that take pleasure in this watered-down version of the band, wteher they realize it or not, I am genuinly happy for all those that felt that this lineup was everything they wanted, to me it is just a step backwards, or rather a large step in absolutely no direction at all.

i think one has got to be a lunatic to expect the same band. obviously axl, izzy, slash and duff will never be the same band, will never record another appetite. thats beyond nonsense to expect that or anything similar to that

what made GNR great was NOT the hunger of these guys. NO. that was a important part of the equation, for sure. maybe a very important part. But ZILLIONS of bands have that hunger. They were hungry and their hunger likely was a key ingredient to allow them to fullfill their potential -- to take them as far as they can go. And look where did they go. But all the hunger in the world would be absolutely useless if they didn't know how to create and perform good music.

And thats exactly what made GNR great: the ability of Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff (and Steven) to create and perform great music.

That can not be replicated or duplicated by other people.

(Specially by people who can't write a good song to save their lives, which was the case of most of the people Axl chose to play with on his solo career)

to the best of my knowledge, Axl, Izzy, Slash and Duff are not the only musicians on the planet able to do that. There are quite a few people who can do that. Unfortunatelly, none of these guys has been able to associate with such people -- people who can create and perform good music. Not for too long, anyway.

Axl never really found anyone of his caliber to create and play music with other than Slash and Izzy.

Same can be said for Slash and Izzy.

Duff (and Matt) managed to find a true songwriter genius and a truly great performer -- Steve Jones -- but they only did one very good album and very little touring with him.

To have these guys together NOW, TODAY, IN 2017, is to have four (five) guys that have that ability to create and perform music in that unique way that we all (well, most of us all) know and love.

There is absolutely ZERO reason for these guys to try and recreate anything like Appetite.

All they need to do is get into a room and do the music they feel like doing.

It can be fast or slow, simple or complicated.

It doesnt matter

The only thing that matters is that it wil sound good.

If we are lucky, it will sound great

Maybe, just maybe, it will sound magical.

because these guys know how to create and performe good music 

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8 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I do have to say that we've come a long way in cleaning a lot of that up around here though. I completely agree that it used to be that way, it we've done a lot of work to reverse that. It's not perfect, but o honestly feel that it's a lot better. 

Aye, the admin/moderating team around here do a good job, but you can't change culture. Look at the post that came directly after yours. There's nothing that contravenes the forum rules, but it's certainly not going to create an atmosphere in which anyone whose favourite line-up came between 2000-2014 feels like they can talk about how cool they thought Catcher at L'Arc was, Bucket's classical guitar on If The World or how much fun they had at a show in '06, without being verbally excoriated. Unless they're up for a fight, but who really wants to feel like they're fighting everyone all the time, I've always come here because I feel like part of a community... It's just now the community is anything goes.

You can't moderate a culture of respectful disagreement into a large group of people who believe that the CD-era line-up deserves to be treated with nothing but contempt, you can delete and edit posts where people cross the line, but changing attitudes en masse? No.

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5 hours ago, Graeme said:

Aye, the admin/moderating team around here do a good job, but you can't change culture. Look at the post that came directly after yours. There's nothing that contravenes the forum rules, but it's certainly not going to create an atmosphere in which anyone whose favourite line-up came between 2000-2014 feels like they can talk about how cool they thought Catcher at L'Arc was, Bucket's classical guitar on If The World or how much fun they had at a show in '06, without being verbally excoriated. Unless they're up for a fight, but who really wants to feel like they're fighting everyone all the time, I've always come here because I feel like part of a community... It's just now the community is anything goes.

You can't moderate a culture of respectful disagreement into a large group of people who believe that the CD-era line-up deserves to be treated with nothing but contempt, you can delete and edit posts where people cross the line, but changing attitudes en masse? No.

I hear ya.


For the record, *I* say whatever I like regarding how cool I thought a lot of that era was. Hell, I get my head caved in regularly for daring to say that Robin is my favorite guitarist in the history of GN'R lol. I totally hear what you're saying though. It gets to a point sometimes where it's just not worth the fight when you know what the reaction is going to be every time. 

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On 6/27/2017 at 7:29 AM, Towelie said:

Slash and Duff got their shit together years ago. It is Axl who has prevented this band from moving forward like a normal band.

Exactly.  they were all fucked up and everyone played a role, but then everyone got it together a long time ago, everyone except the little boy with hurt feelings: axl rose.  

calling his solo work gnr, calling his hired backing band gnr, touring the world selling people a lie, a lie enabled by lawyers and a management team lead by a nanny out for his money and his trust.  

what's real in axl's life?  axl hired his fake "band", hired his fake Brazilian "family", and hired his lawyers who then enabled him to make a fool of himself to the world.  who's in axl life that he doesnt pay for?  He even pays Del.  

I root for axl, I think underneath the ego and deep suppression axl's genius still exists, but I'm reluctant to think he'll ever be able to tap into it again without serious and committed psycho-therapy. 

otherwise, I'm afraid he'll be remembered as just another clown... just another clown in a wig.

prove me wrong axl.  PLEASE.

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15 hours ago, ludurigan said:

 

axl decided to name his solo career as "GNR" and that has got to be one of the most embarassing things that ever happened in the music business

that move was beyond embarassing and pathetic -- it was downright offensive to everyone that ever listened to GNR

this embarassing threunion guns n aliens tour is doing the very same thing, using the name GNR and for something that clearly is not GNR

but since it has 3 GNR people involved on it, its actually not that bad -- specially when compared to axl solo career "GNR"

PS: you forgot one. there are FOUR aliens (and not three) on this nonsense tour

Dumb bullshit. Angus is AC/DC right now, and if he ever releases another album, which is quite probable, it will be an AC/DC album. I doubt there are many which would say it's not an AC/DC album, it's Angus solo.

Edited by Zurimor
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53 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

Dumb bullshit. Angus is AC/DC right now, and if he ever releases another album, which is quite probable, it will be an AC/DC album. I doubt there are many which would say it's not an AC/DC album, it's Angus solo.

It will be a fake ac/dc album in the same cheap way Chinese Democracy was/is a fake gnr record with one solo band member. 

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38 minutes ago, Sunset Gardner said:

It will be a fake ac/dc album in the same cheap way Chinese Democracy was/is a fake gnr record with one solo band member. 

I absolutely don't agree, Angus is a huge part of AC/DC's sound, it will still be an AC/DC album. Furthermore, there are plenty of bands which replaced the whole lineup or almost the whole llineup but still run under the same band name, like Maiden, Sabbath and plenty more. On the other hand you have bands which didn't swap many members, but nevertheless sound quite differrent now, like Marillion (referring to the classic 80s lineup of course). So what you're saying is pretty much, as soon as just 1 band member is replaced, a band has to change its name (see Mariilion, no changes since 1989 when Steve H. took over).

To me, it's still Marillion, I don't like them as much as Fish era, but still the same band.

And you even have bands like U2, no roster changes at all, but compare their last albums to their early work. Do they have to change name, too, because they sound quite different now?

Edited by Zurimor
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10 hours ago, Lio said:

The three wanted all five involved. We KNOW that for a fact, as we know Steven was there and we know Izzy didn't agree with what they were willing to pay him. So we know first hand they all wanted them involved.

 

that is such an strong argumentation that changes everything people knew so far about this tour. Thank you so much for sharing such precious FACTS!

:rofl-lol:

 

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Just now, ludurigan said:

 

that is such an strong argumentation that changes everything people knew so far about this tour. Thank you so much for sharing such precious FACTS!

:rofl-lol:

 

Huh? Not sure what you're talking about. Are you ROFLing because I actually mention facts instead of the usual fanfiction?

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4 minutes ago, Lio said:

Huh? Not sure what you're talking about. Are you ROFLing because I actually mention facts instead of the usual fanfiction?

Of course! When someone provides such FACTS and TRUE ARGUMENTS instead of fan fiction, I get so full of joy that I started laughing so hard that I cant stop laughing it's such fun!

Please keep on providing FACTS (proven and verified facts like the ones you presented) that take the conversation to a whole another brand new level of truthfullness and factness!

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

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Just now, ludurigan said:

Of course! When someone provides such FACTS and TRUE ARGUMENTS instead of fan fiction, I get so full of joy that I started laughing so hard that I cant stop laughing it's such fun!

Please keep on providing FACTS (proven and verified facts like the ones you presented) that take the conversation to a whole another brand new level of truthfullness and factness!

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

Oh, maybe you've missed it. I'll enlighten you. Steven was involved and actually rehearsing with the band. Or do you think Steven made that up? Izzy tweeted and said they didn't want to split the loot equally. Which to me suggests they have made him some kind of offer, don't you think?

Jesus, it's not that hard to grasp, is it?

 

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19 hours ago, ludurigan said:

i think one has got to be a lunatic to expect the same band. obviously axl, izzy, slash and duff will never be the same band, will never record another appetite. thats beyond nonsense to expect that or anything similar to that

what made GNR great was NOT the hunger of these guys. NO. that was a important part of the equation, for sure. maybe a very important part. But ZILLIONS of bands have that hunger. They were hungry and their hunger likely was a key ingredient to allow them to fullfill their potential -- to take them as far as they can go. And look where did they go. But all the hunger in the world would be absolutely useless if they didn't know how to create and perform good music.

And thats exactly what made GNR great: the ability of Axl, Izzy, Slash, Duff (and Steven) to create and perform great music.

 

To be exact, the biggest part of their success was luck. As you mentioned there are zillions of bands, and many are as good as GN'R, maybe even better, but they never got that known because it needs a lot of luck. It's not about talent or anything like that, some of my favourite bands have a lot of talent, still almost nobody knows them. It needs to be that right place, right time thing to become world famous. Vice versa it doesn't mean a world famous band has a lot of talent, there are a lot of regional bands which are at the same level, in Cologne, there are a lot of "Kölsch"bands, some of them are awesome. A Wolfgang Niedecken from "Bap" could easily be a world-class singer/songwriter.

Edit: Found an English song by him:

edit 2: well, not quite, but at least the refrain is English and everyone knows that one. ;)

 

Edited by Zurimor
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2 hours ago, Lio said:

Oh, maybe you've missed it. I'll enlighten you. Steven was involved and actually rehearsing with the band. Or do you think Steven made that up? Izzy tweeted and said they didn't want to split the loot equally. Which to me suggests they have made him some kind of offer, don't you think?

Jesus, it's not that hard to grasp, is it?

 

Exactly! Its so easy to grasp those facts! Those facts prove that Axl Slash and Duff really wanted to have an GNR reunion and they really did everything they could to achieve that, but unfortunatelly they werent able to do that!

Steven had to hurt his back so obviously he could only play three or four shows and he obviously only could play one or two songs on each of these shows! It's SO CLEAR -- an OBVIOUS FACT! -- that if it was up to Axl, Slash and Duff, Steven would have played all the shows, all the songs! Thats such an easy-to-grasp TRUE FACT that I dont understand why there are so many not-enlightened people that that refuse to understand and accept these TRUE PROVEN FACTS and chose to believe in fan fiction!

And what about Izzy? Oh fuck! He clearly was offered money to play! So it is an OBVIOUS TRUE FACT that Axl Slash and Duff really really wanted to have an GNR reunion with Izzy and they really did everything they could to achieve that, but unfortunatelly Izzy was too greedy demanding equal pay so obviously he could not be part of this reunion! If it was up to Axl, Slash and Duff, it is an OBVIOUS FACT that Izzy would have played all the shows, all the songs! Thats such an easy-to-grasp fact that I dont understand why there are so many not enlightened people that refuse to understand and accept these TRUE PROVEN FACTS and chose to believe in fan fiction!

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

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14 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

To be exact, the biggest part of their success was luck.

:rofl-lol:

15 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

There are zillions of bands, and many are as good as GN'R, maybe even better

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

16 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

It's not about talent or anything like that, some of my favourite bands have a lot of talent, still almost nobody knows them.

There are a lot of regional bands which are at the same level [of GNR], in Cologne, there are a lot of "Kölsch"bands, some of them are awesome.

LULA+RINDO+MUITO.jpg

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1 minute ago, ludurigan said:

Exactly! Its so easy to grasp those facts! Those facts prove that Axl Slash and Duff really wanted to have an GNR reunion and they really did everything they could to achieve that, but unfortunatelly they werent able to do that!

Steven had to hurt his back so obviously he could only play three or four shows and he obviously only could play one or two songs on each of these shows! It's SO CLEAR -- an OBVIOUS FACT! -- that if it was up to Axl, Slash and Duff, Steven would have played all the shows, all the songs! Thats such an easy-to-grasp TRUE FACT that I dont understand why there are so many not-enlightened people that that refuse to understand and accept these TRUE PROVEN FACTS and chose to believe in fan fiction!

And what about Izzy? Oh fuck! He clearly was offered money to play! So it is an OBVIOUS TRUE FACT that Axl Slash and Duff really really wanted to have an GNR reunion with Izzy and they really did everything they could to achieve that, but unfortunatelly Izzy was too greedy demanding equal pay so obviously he could not be part of this reunion! If it was up to Axl, Slash and Duff, it is an OBVIOUS FACT that Izzy would have played all the shows, all the songs! Thats such an easy-to-grasp fact that I dont understand why there are so many not enlightened people that refuse to understand and accept these TRUE PROVEN FACTS and chose to believe in fan fiction!

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

Quit fucking trying. I never said such a thing. I said they wanted them involved, never said anything at all about them really really wanting a full reunion. Because you know, I stick to the facts.

If they wouldn't have wanted them involved in any way, Izzy would never have been offered anything at all and Steven wouldn't have rehearsed with them. I never said they were desperate to have them all in. Don't make it out as if I'm doing that. I said they wanted them involved, not more not less.

It's really very simple, but since you keep putting words in my mouth that I have never said, I'll try to keep the discussion at your level from now on:

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

 

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19 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

:rofl-lol:

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

LULA+RINDO+MUITO.jpg

There's nothing to laugh about the fact that fame, especially for musicians, has not much to do with talent. Listen to some regional bands, there are quite some with the potential to blow you away if you invest that effort. We have quite some world class artists singing only German, so most outside of the German-speaking room won't know them, it's a choice they made, valuing their art higher than fame. I'm sure the same is true for other countries.

It's really not that GN'R is outstanding and better than any other band, it was just the right place and time for them. They are good, yes, and I like them, but there are other bands/artists I value the same like Maiden, Marillion, Henke, Goethes Erben, Lazuli, Lindenberg, AnnenMayKantereit, Xavier Naidoo and many, many more.

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18 minutes ago, Lio said:

Quit fucking trying. I never said such a thing. I said they wanted them involved, never said anything at all about them really really wanting a full reunion. Because you know, I stick to the facts.

If they wouldn't have wanted them involved in any way, Izzy would never have been offered anything at all and Steven wouldn't have rehearsed with them. I never said they were desperate to have them all in. Don't make it out as if I'm doing that. I said they wanted them involved, not more not less.

It's really very simple, but since you keep putting words in my mouth that I have never said, I'll try to keep the discussion at your level from now on:

:rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol::rofl-lol:

 

Thanks for clarifying the fact that Axl, Slash and Duff didnt really want Izzy and Steven. It took a while, but you got there!

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13 hours ago, Lio said:

It's BS that 'Slash' wanted to get all five involved. The three wanted all five involved. We KNOW that for a fact, as we know Steven was there and we know Izzy didn't agree with what they were willing to pay him. So we know first hand they all wanted them involved. Not just Slash. But that doesn't fit into the narrative that Axl is the devil, so we pretend that it's only Slash that wanted it.:shrugs:

 

2 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

Thanks for clarifying the fact that Axl, Slash and Duff didnt really want Izzy and Steven. It took a while, but you got there!

You should be the last one to be condescending here. But it's okay. I now know better than to try and give you an answer when you ask something.

Just don't ask for facts anymore when obviously you can't handle them at all. Stick to the smileys from now on. :)

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NuGNR gave us a lot of disasters. I miss them.

NITL is the best thing to happen to GNR fans since 1993.

The Axl Rose solo years (nope, not a band and definitely not GNR, sorry kids) gave us a lot of interesting moments. BH, Finck and Brain were great. They were hired musicians and not band members so they were ALWAYS under Axl's control and awesome musicians like them should never be under anyone's control. That's why they left.

Axl sounds like shit live, Slash looks on autopilot, Duff is ok. The side musicians don't bother me except for Frank.

You know why people love and are passionate  about the 87-93? Why they won't really tolerate those who prefer the Axl solo years?

Just read what I wrote above. Now compare to a band that was very talented, charismatich, unpredictable, hungry, young, prolific (considering its short life).

You gotta be insane to prefer fat Axl sounding like Mickey Mouse along with an entrepeneur that plays guitar, a nerdy shredder and a bunch of side musicians instead of the real deal.

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20 hours ago, Zurimor said:

The biggest part of [GNR] success was luck.

It's not about talent or anything like that.

There are a lot of regional bands which are at the same level [of GNR], in Cologne.

A Wolfgang Niedecken from "Bap" could easily be a world-class singer/songwriter.

Edit: Found an English song by him:

 

 

wow, whoever wrote this song is a top class talent. seriously, this singer songwriter from "bap" must be really out of luck in the music business, it's pretty obvious that the guy is an extremely talented songwriter! I'm actually so impressed that I'd go as far as say that this guy deserves to win a fucking nobel prize!

 

dylan-laughing.jpg?w=233&h=168

 

 

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I feel like be careful what you wish for, you may have it. I wanted the reunion but not this kind of reunion. This is still the CD Tour featuring Slash and Duff. Why am I saying this? Because of the set list, management, the band itself and the things they are not doing. I don't understand why Slash and Duff left the band back in 96/97. They are doing now what they didn't want to do before. At the end Axl, Slash and Duff fought, hated each other and wasted 20 years for nothing.

Sure I wanted Slash and Duff back. Not just because I'm nostalgic, although I became a fan because of the music they made. But because Axl dragged GN'R history and legacy into the mud. CD was 10 years in the making. And it ended up being an irrelevant album for the general public. In the middle of it we got riots, tours cancellations and revolving door band members. I don't see anything to be proud of about any of this.

P.S. @SoulMonster I'm glad you're back :headbang:

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On 29.6.2017 at 6:20 PM, ludurigan said:

 

wow, whoever wrote this song is a top class talent. seriously, this singer songwriter from "bap" must be really out of luck in the music business, it's pretty obvious that the guy is an extremely talented songwriter! I'm actually so impressed that I'd go as far as say that this guy deserves to win a fucking nobel prize!

 

dylan-laughing.jpg?w=233&h=168

 

 

The point I was trying to make is that there are many really talented and mostly unknown regional artists, fame or the number of albums sold is not a good measurement for quality. I don't think that Niedecken is out of luck in the music business, he usually sings in "Kölsch" (a dialect spoken in Coiogne and surroundings, but don't call it dialect if you're ever there, to the people there, it's their language) with his band. Anyway, he was country-wide successful with his band which is a huge success in itself, he actually sold millions of albums in Germany. He just chose to stick to Kölsch since it is, as he mentioned himself "the language of my heart", but I agree, he could easily be a world famous singer/songwriter (he was sometimes called "der kölsche Bob Dylan" btw.  ;) )

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