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Game of Thrones Season 7 Discussion Thread *NO Spoilers*


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These past two episodes have wasted a whole lot of time when theres so much story left but so few episodes. A whole 5 minutes on Greyworm and whats her face? C'mon. Shoulda done that seasons ago. I've got a really bad feeling that the pacing is going to bw incredibly fucked.

Also everything about Euron's place in the story makes no sense.

Edited by Dan H.
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The last two episode of this season will be cool. It's going to be like Battle of the Bastards again, with casual show watchers thinking it's great and ignoring that it doesn't make much sense or fit the narrative of the story that started in season 1.

fyi George updated recently, he's still putting in the "finishing touches" like he has for most of this decade. If anyone's wondering, George doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the show since season 4.

They send him scripts and he cashes his checks, but he doesn't write the episodes. He does randomly though on his blog when pestered in the comments of one the random daily essays he pens on anything not related to The Winds of Winder, emphasize that the show took a different direction.

He released the first Sansa chapter in a decade just before season 5 started (I wonder why?) and released an Aeron chapter (with Euron) last year.

Edited by AtariLegend
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1 hour ago, Dan H. said:

These past two episodes have wasted a whole lot of time when theres so much story left but so few episodes. A whole 5 minutes on Greyworm and whats her face? C'mon. Shoulda done that seasons ago. I've got a really bad feeling that the pacing is going to bw incredibly fucked.

Also everything about Euron's place in the story makes no sense.

I dunno man, these two episodes have been fairly strong in my opinion.  

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1 hour ago, tsinindy said:

I dunno man, these two episodes have been fairly strong in my opinion.  

They just seem like a lot of exposition that we already know, and a lot of feet dragging. The show needs to speed up now or we're gonna get more wacky timelines down the road, like Euron somehow building 1000 ships in just a few months, even after half of the main fleet leaves with Theon and Yara (also Varys going to Dorne then Esso then back to Westeros all in one episode).

I'm not ready to call either of these episodes bad, but I have serious concerns about these two half seasons.

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8 minutes ago, Dan H. said:

They just seem like a lot of exposition that we already know, and a lot of feet dragging. The show needs to speed up now or we're gonna get more wacky timelines down the road, like Euron somehow building 1000 ships in just a few months, even after half of the main fleet leaves with Theon and Yara (also Varys going to Dorne then Esso then back to Westeros all in one episode).

I'm not ready to call either of these episodes bad, but I have serious concerns about these two half seasons.

Yah, I get what you are saying.....you have valid concerns.  

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23 hours ago, Dan H. said:

They just seem like a lot of exposition that we already know, and a lot of feet dragging. The show needs to speed up now or we're gonna get more wacky timelines down the road, like Euron somehow building 1000 ships in just a few months, even after half of the main fleet leaves with Theon and Yara (also Varys going to Dorne then Esso then back to Westeros all in one episode).

I'm not ready to call either of these episodes bad, but I have serious concerns about these two half seasons.

 

If you know anything about the Iron Islands, there's hardly any trees. 

 

It was odd that Ellaria went to Dragonstone and was like Oh, better go back and gather my forces. Couldn't she have, like, traveled to Dragonstone with the fleet? I don't get why they decided to meet up and say lets go and come back with our armies! 

 

The whole thing is forced. If you've read the book, there is a whole process. And it is completely different from the book. 

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1 hour ago, AtariLegend said:

Take that back!!!

 

I actually do think he's given up. He said he will stop writing episodes so he will focus on finishing the next book. Now he's writing other stuff. Even if he did release the next book by the end of the year, he still has another to write.

 

I'm sorry to say, but it looks like we will know the ending from this trainwreck of the show. 

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8 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

 

I actually do think he's given up. He said he will stop writing episodes so he will focus on finishing the next book. Now he's writing other stuff. Even if he did release the next book by the end of the year, he still has another to write.

 

I'm sorry to say, but it looks like we will know the ending from this trainwreck of the show. 

He hasn't wrote an episode since season 4, the purple wedding.

Yes, we'll know who sits on the throne at the end. However I don't think we'll know what happens to most of the characters or the resolution.

 I think they "D/D" only know elements such as Hodor's name, Jon's parentage and who sits on the Throne at the end. I don't honestly believe they know as much as we assume they do. Otherwise George wouldn't be randomly distant himself from things from the show people ask him about.

I think/hope we'll see The Winds of Winter eventually, but I doubt we'll A Dream of Spring.

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I expected Tyrion to be more clever. Damn. Being Joffrey's hand he was clever on his own, and knowing Cersei and Jamie he should know how they think so working against them should be a fucking walk in the park. Yet here we are.

And Lady Olena... I always loved her. 

D&D reeeeeally dislike Dorne, hum?

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Wow, the CG on the Casterly Rock attack was fucking awful.

Not sure I really enjoyed Dany and Jon's meeting together. They are both at their most exhausting and boring in this episode, like their dialogue is stuck on repeat.

Hopefully we get a proper battle soon. Dunno if I can take more chatting from these people.

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4 hours ago, Deb Rose said:

I expected Tyrion to be more clever.

I was just thinking yesterday before the episode, that they've really screwed up Meereen by having Tyrion meet Danny in 8 episodes instead of go on his book adventure. He's literally been a side character in the show for the past few seasons, who's only screen because he's under contract. Surely the show watchers who seemed to think Peter Dinklage was the star of the show in season 4, have noticed Tyrion's worthless to the story since then. It's not as bad as what they've done with Littlefinger, but it's still pretty weird.

4 hours ago, Deb Rose said:

D&D reeeeeally dislike Dorne, hum?

Honestly if I was a show runner, I'd have just cut Dorne out of the show if there was no Ariane or Aegon. That way they could have had time to leave Sansa in the vale like in the books and have her story progress naturally.

Speaking of weird character progression, Meera? They let her kill a white walker last season, but she's a character who's given so little dialogue that I'm almost worried Howland Reed is never showing up in the show.

I knew Jorah would be cured, but I don't think Jon Connington is getting magically cured in the books. Don't think the Grey Scale element was introduced in the books for no reason.

1 last thing, anyone expect more from Jon/Danny meeting for the first time (with weird acting/directing), Jon/Tyrion reunion or Bran/Sansa being reunited after years? It's strange that Sansa didn't have any questions for Bran, like were where you? Also strange that apparently everyone has heard of the "Night King" before or that they know what Jon's talking about when he mentions it. There's a section missing from last year where Bloodraven actually tells Bran who "The Night King" is. It's like everyone's been reading the episode credits on imdb.

 

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Dorne is the most pointless storyline. The Iron Islands are left in because of conviennce but Dorne just should have been left out. It serves a greater purprose in the books but with key characters cut, there is no point.

 

Tyrion's plan to take Casterly Rock was stupid. Why send your best troops to the other side of the fucking continent?  

 

My favorite part was when the scene when Sam and the Grand Maester. I like how he rewarded Sam's cure of Ser Jorah's greyscale by not banishing him from the Citidel and giving him more work. Pretty realistic which is uncharacteristic of the show.

 

Anyway, episode was shit. I think this season is going to be a let down.

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In the shows defense, it hasn't been very well written for a few seasons now. Thats fine and all, I mean it makes up for the writing with great direction and in fairness to D&D adapting these books for a mainstream audience with a hard timestamp and only 70% of hard source material is a daunting task and they've done a fine job.

I think the most glaring and tragic mistake was all the time wasted in season 5. If they pumped the gas a little harder and cut or tweaked a few of the loose and unneccisary storylines, we could have had more room for better pacing here at the end. 

I suppose we got some decent material from this episode, specifically Jon and Tyrion's reunion, which was the only merging of storylines this episode that felt fulfilled and satisfying.

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1 hour ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

Tyrion's plan to take Casterly Rock was stupid. Why send your best troops to the other side of the fucking continent?  

Weird character progression too for Danny.

Maybe it's just their decision to white wash her in the show, but I'd really expect that by this point book Danny would have stormed the city. In the show it's suggested that they could just storm King's Landing (which is on Dragonstone's door step). Why attack Casterly Rock on the other side of the continent to satisfy Tyrion's whims? Where is the Tyrell army (one of the biggest in the seven kingdoms)? Where is the Dorne army? 

Seems like they just included these battles on the show to pass time/show the locations, despite the fact that it doesn't make sense. 

Sad to see Olenna go, but knew it was coming. It's a plot hole though, that they decided to kill off Loras and the other family members in the show. George said years ago that it would be a mistake not including Loras's brothers since they'd play a bigger role in the final two books (Garlan I think). Also said that Casterly Rock/Highgarden would be in the next book too (guessing too this isn't what he meant).

Speaking of Casterly Rock, that's where Edmure Tully is sent as prisoner in the books. In the show however they must have kept him at The Twins instead (where Arya just killed all the freys). Did Arya not know her uncle was being kept prisoner there?

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3 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Weird character progression too for Danny.

Maybe it's just their decision to white wash her in the show, but I'd really expect that by this point book Danny would have stormed the city. In the show it's suggested that they could just storm King's Landing (which is on Dragonstone's door step). Why attack Casterly Rock on the other side of the continent to satisfy Tyrion's whims? Where is the Tyrell army (one of the biggest in the seven kingdoms)? Where is the Dorne army? 

Seems like they just included these battles on the show to pass time/show the locations, despite the fact that it doesn't make sense. 

Sad to see Olenna go, but knew it was coming. It's a plot hole though, that they decided to kill off Loras and the other family members in the show. George said years ago that it would be a mistake not including Loras's brothers since they'd play a bigger role in the final two books (Garlan I think). Also said that Casterly Rock/Highgarden would be in the next book too (guessing too this isn't what he meant).

Speaking of Casterly Rock, that's where Edmure Tully is sent as prisoner in the books. In the show however they must have kept him at The Twins instead (where Arya just killed all the freys). Did Arya not her uncle was being kept prisoner there?

 

Edmure has disappeared from the show. We are left to assume he returned to the Twins. You can't expect these writers to have good memory. Maybe he's back at Riverrun, loyal to Jamie? 

 

If Dorne was cut from season 5 they could have focused on other storylines. Instead we had two horribly written seasons, now it seems like this one will be no different. Season 4 was the last good season. How this fucking show keeps winning Emmy's for writing is beyond me. 

 

As for the Tyrell army, according to the showrunners, the Tyrell Army fought and lost as they were just weren't good fighters in the first place. No idea where that came from, Tarly defected to House Lannister. I guess Tarly's men were the best soldiers because he defeated Robert once. They chose to portray the Casterly Rock sequence so they can surprise the audience that it was a set up. Odd how Jamie anticipated that they would attack such a pointless castle. Jamie knew that they wouldn't be able to hold it and they were too close to the Greyjoys. Then again, Tyrion admitted he was new to military strategy. Jamie was raised to lead armies, Tyrion was not. Also, these Unsullied are not replaceable. Sooner or later it will just be Grey Worm and a few other nameless soldiers.

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7 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

 

Edmure has disappeared from the show. We are left to assume he returned to the Twins. You can't expect these writers to have good memory. Maybe he's back at Riverrun, loyal to Jamie? 

 

If Dorne was cut from season 5 they could have focused on other storylines. Instead we had two horribly written seasons, now it seems like this one will be no different. Season 4 was the last good season. How this fucking show keeps winning Emmy's for writing is beyond me. 

 

As for the Tyrell army, according to the showrunners, the Tyrell Army fought and lost as they were just weren't good fighters in the first place. No idea where that came from, Tarly defected to House Lannister. I guess Tarly's men were the best soldiers because he defeated Robert once. They chose to portray the Casterly Rock sequence so they can surprise the audience that it was a set up. Odd how Jamie anticipated that they would attack such a pointless castle. Jamie knew that they wouldn't be able to hold it and they were too close to the Greyjoys. Then again, Tyrion admitted he was new to military strategy. Jamie was raised to lead armies, Tyrion was not. Also, these Unsullied are not replaceable. Sooner or later it will just be Grey Worm and a few other nameless soldiers.

did you read the books? you'd think the writers could keep better track if the show goes by the books :)

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58 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

 

Edmure has disappeared from the show. We are left to assume he returned to the Twins. You can't expect these writers to have good memory. Maybe he's back at Riverrun, loyal to Jamie? 

 

If Dorne was cut from season 5 they could have focused on other storylines. Instead we had two horribly written seasons, now it seems like this one will be no different. Season 4 was the last good season. How this fucking show keeps winning Emmy's for writing is beyond me. 

 

As for the Tyrell army, according to the showrunners, the Tyrell Army fought and lost as they were just weren't good fighters in the first place. No idea where that came from, Tarly defected to House Lannister. I guess Tarly's men were the best soldiers because he defeated Robert once. They chose to portray the Casterly Rock sequence so they can surprise the audience that it was a set up. Odd how Jamie anticipated that they would attack such a pointless castle. Jamie knew that they wouldn't be able to hold it and they were too close to the Greyjoys. Then again, Tyrion admitted he was new to military strategy. Jamie was raised to lead armies, Tyrion was not. Also, these Unsullied are not replaceable. Sooner or later it will just be Grey Worm and a few other nameless soldiers.

Yeah, I've been wondering since the end of season 6 how they can possibly have the time to fit in a lot of crucial pieces of information effectively in the final seasons in order to hit the right notes.

It appears that they aren't gonna be able to do that, and instead are opting for a bizarre combination of fast forwarding certain plots and events, while also leaving in long stretches of expositional dialogue to keep the casual fans from being too confused. Unfortunately for fans like me and you, it just feels like a terrible waste of time, and leads to gaping logical gaps like the ones you laid out.

Season 6 seemed like it was the start of a new stride for D&D and it moved fairly effeciently to my surprise, especially after season 5. But these 3 new episodes are barely moving the pieces towards the inevitable big showdowns. We have so much that needs to be wrapped up, with only what, 11 episodes? At this point it seems impossible to pull off without choking.

The show has almost totally lost the critical sprawling "chess board" feeling that drew me in. Its just a bunch of plotting and obvious dialogue that really doesn't excite me. It doesn't feel as high stakes, or with such severe consequences as the books and the best moments from the show have felt.

 

I think a big part of that is that we lost a lot of excellent characters and actors, and are left with some of the weakest ones, like Emilie Clark's Dany and Kit Harrington's Jon. We still are getting great material from Sandor, Thoros, Davos, Littlefinger, and occasionally Tyrion, but tbh the Starks and half of Dany's crew fucking suck. Arya is okay, but all of her charm was leeched out for me by the tragically poor writing choices made during her Faceless man subplot. Jesus Christ that was sad to watch, almost worse than Dorne.

Edited by Dan H.
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On a side note, the spoilers have been mostly true. Yes, there's people posting a scene by scene guide to the following episode... however the spoilers and parts of the script have been online for over a year. Some of the leaks were from before they even filmed the material. So clearly people involved with the show are posting things online under different names.

Now why does that matter? The penultimate episode this year once again will be really good, but the direction this season is going in makes very little sense. 

6 episodes (probably slightly longer than usual) to finish the show after this season seems a bit rushed. Since George probably isn't writing any of them, I hope Bryan Cogman got at least lead writing on 2 of them. He might have to write within the confines of D/D's guidelines, but he at least knows the characters. Hope they get Neil Marshall, David Nutter, Miguel Sapochnik and Alan Taylor directing as well. 

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1 hour ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

did you read the books? you'd think the writers could keep better track if the show goes by the books :)

 

They can't because they are beyond the scale of the books. Fatboy won't finish the next book. They are probably in what would be book 7 and he only gave them 3 bits of information. Shireen dies, Hodor dies and who sits on the Iron Throne. That's it.

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