Are we too hard on Guns?

[jacdaniel]

I have a read of the forum almost every day and its sad to see it so full of negativity.  No izzy or Steve, Axls voice, setlist, Melissa, Frank, ticket prices, ticket sales, no new music, cash grab....

 

We more or less knew from the start that it was just slash and duff rejoining. We've known for years that Axl is struggling with rasp/midrange. The setlist is really awesome IMO. 

 

At the end of the day, they are going out there and playing 3+ hour shows with almost 30 songs.  If it was just a cash grab, they'd be playing a 2 hour set with way less songs. 

 

I for one am enjoying the tour.  It's great to see my favourite band out there playing huge shows to huge crowds. It's great that Guns are relevant again. 

 

Of course I would love to hear an interview, or new music or a new drummer but I'm going to enjoy the reunion for what it is and not worry too much about what it's not. 

 

If Guns read the forum, it wouldn't surprise me that they steer clear of the online community.

[Italian girl]

Yes YOU are

[Nikki_Sixx]

No.

No one can ever be too hard on Axl Rose.

He has single-handedly ruined the GNR legacy, now he has to live with the consequences.

[Lio]

Haha, @Italian girl

Most people are enjoying the tour. Some people are better at coping with things not being perfect than others. I do think people infect other people. It's easy to get overly focused on the negative when  you read negative comments.

Me personally, I can't wait for them to come back to Europe. The shows were a wonderful experience for me. No amount of negativity here can take that away from me, even if it can be a drag being all excited about a show and then coming on  here and reading the same negative stuff over and over again. I just consider myself lucky that this band can still make me happy, as opposed to seeing many others who seem primarily frustrated by it, or even offended by choices rock stars make

[EvanG]

Nah, they aren't the most fan-friendly band obviously and it's fair to criticize them on a lot of things, and what else is there to talk about on here? The new album? The never changing setlists? Even the most negative people here probably still enjoy(ed) the music at one point, but it's hard not to point out the ridiculousness that surrounds this band.

[AxlIsGod.]

In a live capacity/Touring i'd say yes. When it comes to all the other shit a band should do absolutely not. However Live is all we get really so i Can't blame people for picking it apart.

[Zurimor]

1 hour ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

No.

No one can ever be too hard on Axl Rose.

He has single-handedly ruined the GNR legacy, now he has to live with the consequences.

What a bullshit, ask Slash, Duff, Steven about their drug usage, not even close to single-handedly. Also, the band members obviously had different ideas for the band, you could even say Axl evolved, the rest of the band did not (without any judgement). It's normal that ways do part if this happens in a band.

On topic, yes, many people are too harsh. If it were just for the money, they wouldn't need to do 3+ hours shows as you said. 2 hours or even 90 minutes would be enough. Seems like some GN'R fans have difficulties to appreciate what they have.

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Zurimor

[Natty]

well we are not too hard and not everything people write is real negativity. it s just that 80% of us want more.

it doesnt mean we didnt enjoy the shows. I loved the live shows. it doesn t mean we are unhappy to have the big 3 together again. it means that half of this board would like to have afd guys back because it s human nature to want the most you can get.

that some complain about axl s voice is childish in my opinion and that a minority of people blame axl for everything is also not mature.. so for me the real negativity is only about 20 % the others accept that minimum we have with the three union who does awesome 3 hour shows! 

The comments like myself saying please fire frank or ask izzy to join writing with you is just because we have nothing better to dicuss and argue because no one has an idea whats going to happen regarding new music and lineup so everyone is claiming what they would wish..

[EvanG]

3 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

Seems like some GN'R fans have difficulties to appreciate what they have.

Three albums in 30 years? 

[Natty]

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

Three albums in 30 years? 

even if its only 3.5 albums in 30 years.. no other band has produced 3.5 albums in the last 30 years that I want to listen on a daily basis. 

only gnr (and skid row) have this effect on me

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, Natty said:

even if its only 3.5 albums in 30 years.. no other band has produced 3.5 albums in the last 30 years that I want to listen on a daily basis. 

only gnr (and skid row) have this effect on me

You still listen to GnR on a daily basis? That's impressive... I think I gave that up in the 90s.

[Natty]

yeah I do. I love their songs.. sometimes I skip songs like the garden or breakdown and after 2 weeks I listen to them and think "hm not bad" 

 I am still crazy for this songs from lies appetite and illusions

[EvanG]

It's not like I don't listen to them anymore, I think their music aged rather well, but they have too little material for me to still listen to them on a daily basis.

[SoulMonster]

Yes, people are too negative. The more likely alternative to what we have today - which is a great live band that tours the world to huge acclaim playing large nostalgic setlists that encompass their whole history, if you didn't know - isn't that GN'R in 2017 would be a productive band like they were in the 80s, churning out fantastic records that would steer the music industry, but that GN'R would have been dissolved many years ago either due to deaths, lack of motivation or indifference. So the glass is more than half full but some fans will always be miserable shits.

It is simply not a matter of us not seeing (or hearing) the same thing, but having a different perspective on what the reasonable alternative to what we have, is. I got the fantastic band in the late 80s. I never expected it to last for long. No one really did. They were too messed up for that. BUT, lo and behold! they released another two orginal albums and then even a cover record. Wow. And then we got CD on top of that. It is much, muhc, MUCH more than what people actually thought would come out of this dysfunctional groups of addicts, retards and loonies. And now they entertain the world by playing huge shows. Yes, it is not as good as it were. Duh. But who could seriously expect them to be? Or be dissappointed they are not? Only people who aren't really grounded or never realized how fucked up the band was.

This is the dessert, it might not be as good as the main course but we really only paid for the entree.

[Natty]

16 minutes ago, EvanG said:

It's not like I don't listen to them anymore, I think their music aged rather well, but they have too little material for me to still listen to them on a daily basis.

it s not that I dont listen to other bands but gnr is the only band I listen to daily. everyday some gnr songs plus other hardrock or punkrock songs like aerosmith offspring skid row and so on. I dont like the current music much like coldplay or kings of leon etc

[EvanG]

19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, people are too negative. The more likely alternative to what we have today - which is a great live band that tours the world to huge acclaim playing large nostalgic setlists that encompass their whole history, if you didn't know - isn't that GN'R in 2017 would be a productive band like they were in the 80s, churning out fantastic records that would steer the music industry, but that GN'R would have been dissolved many years ago either due to deaths, lack of motivation or indifference. So the glass is more than half full but some fans will always be miserable shits.

It is simply not a matter of us not seeing (or hearing) the same thing, but having a different perspective on what the reasonable alternative to what we have, is. I got the fantastic band in the late 80s. I never expected it to last for long. No one really did. They were too messed up for that. BUT, lo and behold! they released another two orginal albums and then even a cover record. Wow. And then we got CD on top of that. It is much, muhc, MUCH more than what people actually thought would come out of this dysfunctional groups of addicts, retards and loonies. And now they entertain the world by playing huge shows. Yes, it is not as good as it were. Duh. But who could seriously expect them to be? Or be dissappointed they are not? Only people who aren't really grounded or never realized how fucked up the band was.

This is the dessert, it might not be as good as the main course but we really only paid for the entree.

They are just the band you love to hate, and it's not like people are mainly negative about the band, most realize that the band broke up in the 90s and the fact that they managed to make a double album already was a miracle. But there's a lot of negativity towards the singer. He has a talent, no matter how you look at it, and he could have been making records, under any name, but instead he made one record in all those years.  It's fair to criticize that.

Edited July 22, 2017 by EvanG

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

They are just the band you love to hate, and it's not like people are mainly negative about the band, most realize that the band broke up in the 90s and the fact that they managed to make a double album already seemed a miracle. But there's a lot of negativity towards the singer. He has a talent, no matter how you look at it, and he could have been making records, under any name, but instead he made one record in all those years.  It's fair to criticize that.

I don't think it is ever fair to criticize anyone for not doing as you want them to do. It's Axl's life, and just because he has a huge artistic talent doesn't mean he is obligated to use it to entertain us. He is not a hostage of his talent nor our wants.

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think it is ever fair to criticize anyone for not doing as you want them to do. It's Axl's life, and just because he has a huge artistic talent doesn't mean he is obligated to use it to entertain us. He is not a hostage of his talent nor our wants.

Yeah, it's his life and he should do whatever he wants, but go get another profession then. If you're out there performing 30+ year old songs year after year and you're hardly releasing any new music, then I have the right to criticize you on that. If a baker stops making bread but keeps the store running by selling old products, then I'll criticize him on that, too.

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Yeah, it's his life and he should do whatever he wants, but go get another profession then. If you're out there performing 30+ year old songs year after year and you're hardly releasing any new music, then I have the right to criticize you on that. If a baker stops making bread but keeps the store running by selling old products, then I'll criticize him on that, too.

Yes, no one is saying you don't have the right to criticize. I just don't think it is fair to criticize anyone for what they decide to do with their lives when they don't hurt anyone, even if they can be considered to waste their talents.

[Italian girl]

2 hours ago, Lio said:

Haha, @Italian girl

Most people are enjoying the tour. Some people are better at coping with things not being perfect than others. I do think people infect other people. It's easy to get overly focused on the negative when  you read negative comments.

Me personally, I can't wait for them to come back to Europe. The shows were a wonderful experience for me. No amount of negativity here can take that away from me, even if it can be a drag being all excited about a show and then coming on  here and reading the same negative stuff over and over again. I just consider myself lucky that this band can still make me happy, as opposed to seeing many others who seem primarily frustrated by it, or even offended by choices rock stars make

Great post

[EvanG]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Yes, no one is saying you don't have the right to criticize. I just don't think it is fair to criticize anyone for what they decide to do with their lives when they don't hurt anyone, even if they can be considered to waste their talents.

I get what you're saying, but I see it as an opinion. I know he doesn't owe me anything, but as a fan I think it's a real shame, and I don't shy away from expressing that on a GnR forum. Doesn't mean he has to listen or agree with any of the criticism he received over the years, but everyone is free to express it. 

[Frey]

54 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, people are too negative. The more likely alternative to what we have today - which is a great live band that tours the world to huge acclaim playing large nostalgic setlists that encompass their whole history, if you didn't know - isn't that GN'R in 2017 would be a productive band like they were in the 80s, churning out fantastic records that would steer the music industry, but that GN'R would have been dissolved many years ago either due to deaths, lack of motivation or indifference. So the glass is more than half full but some fans will always be miserable shits.

It is simply not a matter of us not seeing (or hearing) the same thing, but having a different perspective on what the reasonable alternative to what we have, is. I got the fantastic band in the late 80s. I never expected it to last for long. No one really did. They were too messed up for that. BUT, lo and behold! they released another two orginal albums and then even a cover record. Wow. And then we got CD on top of that. It is much, muhc, MUCH more than what people actually thought would come out of this dysfunctional groups of addicts, retards and loonies. And now they entertain the world by playing huge shows. Yes, it is not as good as it were. Duh. But who could seriously expect them to be? Or be dissappointed they are not? Only people who aren't really grounded or never realized how fucked up the band was.

This is the dessert, it might not be as good as the main course but we really only paid for the entree.

I'm laughing at the way you phrased that, but I actually agree with you. We have very similar views on this subject.

 

32 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think it is ever fair to criticize anyone for not doing as you want them to do. It's Axl's life, and just because he has a huge artistic talent doesn't mean he is obligated to use it to entertain us. He is not a hostage of his talent nor our wants.

16 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, no one is saying you don't have the right to criticize. I just don't think it is fair to criticize anyone for what they decide to do with their lives when they don't hurt anyone, even if they can be considered to waste their talents.

I also agree with this.

Axl could spend his days decorating cakes and cupcakes and it still wouldn't be fair to criticize him for that.

As long as it makes him happy and he isn't hurting anyone, it's really none of our business.

Obviously as fans of his music this is very frustrating, but neither Axl nor anyone else in the band (because I've read similar complaints about Izzy for example) really are obligated to cater to our wants and desires.

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Frey

[Dar97]

There's so many negative comments i know why this forum gets a bad reputation

[bucketfoot]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

some fans will always be miserable shits.

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

this dysfunctional groups of addicts, retards and loonies.

43 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think it is ever fair to criticize anyone for not doing as you want them to do. It's Axl's life, and just because he has a huge artistic talent doesn't mean he is obligated to use it to entertain us. He is not a hostage of his talent nor our wants.

THIS!!!!!! A lot of people can't seem to get this through their heads, unfortunately.

30 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, no one is saying you don't have the right to criticize. I just don't think it is fair to criticize anyone for what they decide to do with their lives when they don't hurt anyone, even if they can be considered to waste their talents.

Again, spot on.

40 minutes ago, EvanG said:

go get another profession then.

Why the fuck should he? People don't have to buy tickets for the shows..... and yet they do. He is free to do as he wants, who are you to tell him to go and get another profession?

28 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I know he doesn't owe me anything,

Now we're getting somewhere.

22 minutes ago, Frey said:

Axl could spend his days decorating cakes and cupcakes and it still wouldn't be fair to criticize him for that.

As long as it makes him happy and he isn't hurting anyone, it's really none of our business.

Obviously as fans of his music this is very frustrating, but neither Axl nor anyone else in the band (because I've read similar complaints about Izzy for example) really are obligated to cater to our wants and desires.

Correct.

[SoulMonster]

32 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I get what you're saying, but I see it as an opinion. I know he doesn't owe me anything, but as a fan I think it's a real shame, and I don't shy away from expressing that on a GnR forum. Doesn't mean he has to listen or agree with any of the criticism he received over the years, but everyone is free to express it. 

I think it is a shame, too. I wish he would have been that type of artist who would have made more music. But there is a difference between thinking it is a shame he coouldn't produce more, and actually critizicing him for it. It is what it is. Maybe he doesn't want do, maybe he doesn't have it in him, maybe it is too harfd for him, maybe he just is a lzy fuck, maybe he could have if people around had been more supportive/coaxing? I don't know. But regardless, it is his choice and none of my business. I am justg happy for what he has done. Which is a lot to be happy about and better than most other artists.