Are we too hard on Guns?

[DeadSlash]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 5:45 AM, jacdaniel said:

I have a read of the forum almost every day and its sad to see it so full of negativity.  No izzy or Steve, Axls voice, setlist, Melissa, Frank, ticket prices, ticket sales, no new music, cash grab....

 

We more or less knew from the start that it was just slash and duff rejoining. We've known for years that Axl is struggling with rasp/midrange. The setlist is really awesome IMO. 

 

At the end of the day, they are going out there and playing 3+ hour shows with almost 30 songs.  If it was just a cash grab, they'd be playing a 2 hour set with way less songs. 

 

I for one am enjoying the tour.  It's great to see my favourite band out there playing huge shows to huge crowds. It's great that Guns are relevant again. 

 

Of course I would love to hear an interview, or new music or a new drummer but I'm going to enjoy the reunion for what it is and not worry too much about what it's not. 

 

If Guns read the forum, it wouldn't surprise me that they steer clear of the online community.

In short, the answer is yes.  Plain and simple.  I know a lot of people will bitch and moan about people drawing that conclusion, but you just don't find fan sites where people badmouth the band incessantly like you do here.  It's a shame, because with the reunion, people have regained interest.  When said people stumble across this site and think "Oh cool!  A GnR fansite!" they get lost quickly when they start seeing posts like "Do you think Axl rapes Slash every night? Do you think he makes Duff watch?"  and they just leave.  Mygnrforum is the ultimate loser in the whole thing because they could have gained a lot more traffic.

 

Overall, it kind of flows, some years ago, this was the single most hateful site on the web for Guns n' Roses.  They were really hung up on the whole "we don't want to censor people" thing and it opened the door for straight hate.  I spent about 2 years away from the site because it was like 85% negative.  The golden rule, as far as I could tell was if you prefaced something with "I'm a really big fan" you could say whatever you wanted. So for example, you could write "I'm a huge fan, love these guys: So my question is this - I was talking to Axl after a show, and he said he knows how terrible he is, and he thinks NuGuns is a joke, but he's addicted to the money.  He said he hates his fans, and part of him feels guilty about it.  He seemed sincere, he seemed like a really cool guy. What do you guys think?  Should he be ripping us off? Or should he retire?"    Sounds extreme, right?  Well, it's from a post that wasn't an "extreme example"  and was not ever locked.  That was the discussions we had on here.   If you wrote "Love the band" and bookended it with "seems really cool"  You could flat out slander the band in between.

 

  It's gotten a lot better but it's still annoying, I don't follow the site like I used to, but it is at least tolerable.  The mods now are much better now, and they do a really good job of keeping main threads clean.   For a very short while when they created a sub forum for the hate speech, the main board was pretty cool.  Slowly, the trolling seeped it's way back on to the main page.  I mostly lurk to see if anything leaks.

Unfortunately, as long as people who dislike the band feel compelled to come here for the sole purpose of telling people (who don't give a shit) that they dislike the band, the hate will be there.

 

[Bassist4]

Just my opinion here....to answer this question NO ...and as someone who has been a fan of theirs for 29 years now Guns N Roses are sure hard on their fans...
first off not every fan who really wants to see them live can afford the outrageous ticket prices...
so some fans depend on releases of music/dvds whatever...you know that "new material" stuff everyone talks about everyone bitching about.   (mainly lack of)
the whole VIP thing is fucking insane...and should tell you something... you pay  1 or 2 grand  and what????  YOU'RE STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO MEET THE BAND???????  absolutely horrible!!!   
If GNR continued to release new music over the years and some albums sucked OKAY so what you keep producing and making records eventually one will be amazingly good... I'd rather wish they made some shitty records instead of breaking up and having nothing for 16 to 20 yrs... and here it is again 9 yrs after Chinese Democracy was released hearing the same old shit i heard since 94 "they are making and working on new music"...they need to stop touring for now and take a breath before the same shit happens all over again!!!......

again this is just my opinion!  which of course does not matter!

[xBrownstonex]

lol @ "mediocre performances". What a joke...

[-W.A.R-]

2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Some of you are too hard on mygnrforum

GNR fans are very loyal and optimistic to a fault.

Eh i think we're abuncha pessimistic cunts honestly. Its not without reason though, the band is ran terribly.    

[DieselDaisy]

I look on this band and there is simply nothing I find remotely interesting (to me) or particularly admirable - beyond perhaps Slash's playing. 'Museum piece' bands are not something I'd ever follow, nor the skeleton merchandisings.

[t-p-d-a]

We all know the potential of each classic member.

I bet Axl Rose can still produce a amazing studio voice and lyrics

Listen to Slash's work between 1995 - 2015 ! still potential of a timeless classic riff like Anastasia

Steven Adler can still groove the drumkit and the cowbell

Duff is Duff

and Izzy Stradlin has still the coolness or it's just a myth?

all members are still alive and the times run.

 

and the vault... no Blu Ray release of a classic gig. ... even no Blu Ray of a actual concert.  Forget the Appetite For Democracy Movie.. That's not GN'R

[xBrownstonex]

25 minutes ago, tremolo said:

I know what you mean. The band's mediocre performances are a joke.

 

If only Axl gave 2 and a half fucks and trained his voice so he could sing his own songs... but I know for some fans that's asking too much, especially considering ticket prices! Fans should be thankful that they are not charged $5K and above for the mere fact that Hackxl and $lush are sharing the stage.

 

I guess demanding a minimum standard of quality when you're paying high ticket prices is not cool, is being a self-entitled jackass who should just pay, shut up and be grateful that Lord Axl will reward you with his presence on stage.

 

What a load of BS.

Axl can't sing his own songs, but he charges you as if he could deliver the best vocals of his career while the 2 hottest women in the world were taking turns giving you the most amazing blowjob for the entirety of the show. That is unacceptable, but some fans are willing to turn a blind eye to that fact, because their tongue is so deep up Axl's pooper, in their eyes he can do no wrong. They have come to believe Axl's paranoid view of the world where he is always breaking his back and giving it 200% while the whole world conspires against him to watch him break and fall.

 

[Inbox]

32 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said:

 

Out of likes, but good one 😂👍

 

[DieselDaisy]

It is the phones and youtube which lie, rendering superb raspy performances into sounding like Barry Gibb having been punched in the bollocks and ingested helium. They used to make better phones in 2006 when we got lots of good clips. And AC/DC fans have better phones also.

[F*ck Fear]

In all of the years of bullshit with GNR, I was never too hard on them, however AC/DC proved to me that Axl can still be a power house on the mic and he chooses not to.

I cannot pay $300 a ticket for the same songs in the same order as last year knowing this.

As for new music? Yeah, well....

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

To be honest, my opinion veers, seemingly on a daily basis, from optimism: Who would've thought 2 years ago we'd have a sort-of-reunion tour? Everything is possible! to pessimism: Axl and Slash have not patched it up; they've sort-of-reunited for the sole purpose of doing the bare minimum for maximum profit; they have lifestyles to pay;divorcees to pay;retirement funds to top up.

And yes, there's an argument to be made about entitled fans throwing their toys out of the pram because the artist doesn't give them what they want.  The artist doesn't owe the fans jack shit.  The artist produces stuff or puts on a show and the fans can choose to buy stuff/go to a show or not.  There is choice.  It's entertainment, after all.  So there's that.

But at the same time, the artist shouldn't shit all over the fans just because they can.  There is a fine line between producing lots of stuff for fans to buy, and exploiting the crap out of fans' goodwill, good memories and fucking genuine respect for the music.  And that's where I get riled, because it appears that the band and their 'management' do not respect their own music or their legacy.  In fact what they appear to respect is the fans' ability to throw armfuls of cash at their 'brand'.

Let's just say, I was in HMV store today and there's Deff Leppard (who are also celebrating a 30th anniversary) with their BOX SET of B sides and remixes, and LIVE this and remastered that, and SUPER DELUXE this, and vinyl that and LIMITED EDITION and fucking COLOURED vinyl and shit, and I'm standing there gazing at such a lovely thing, and I'm thinking, 'What the fuck are you doing Guns N' Roses?  What the actual fuck are you doing?'

 

 

 

 

[Marie82]

8 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

There is a fine line between producing lots of stuff for fans to buy, and exploiting the crap out of fans' goodwill, good memories and fucking genuine respect for the music.  And that's where I get riled, because it appears that the band and their 'management' do not respect their own music or their legacy.  In fact what they appear to respect is the fans' ability to throw armfuls of cash at their 'brand'.

I understand the no new music aspect is frustrating, I would like them to produce something too but this is unfair, they aren't forcing anyone to buy expensive tickets or lame expensive merchandise. You may not be happy but other fans are. 

I think by now with GNR people know what to expect. If you still want different songs, no covers, Steven Adler, Izzy Stradlin or something new, anything, don't follow them because apparently things won't change. 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

3 minutes ago, Marie82 said:

I understand the no new music aspect is frustrating, I would like them to produce something too but this is unfair, they aren't forcing anyone to buy expensive tickets or lame expensive merchandise. You may not be happy but other fans are. 

I think by now with GNR people know what to expect. If you still want different songs, no covers, Steven Adler, Izzy Stradlin or something new, anything, don't follow them because apparently things won't change. 

It's not just new music, I understand that is a totally different process. I'm more patient about that.

Today, I bought a live recording of Guns N Roses Perkins Palace, Pasadena set on CD along with DVD documentary (haven't watched it yet) and another CD of interviews.  This wasn't put out by Guns, but The Broadcast Archive.  That's 3 discs of music, interviews and a documentary.  It's not authorised by Guns but whoever put it together put some thought into this, and so far, the live recording is very good.  

Why haven't Guns done anything? How hard is it to acknowledge your 30th anniversary with something remastered, or some live sessions, or some B sides?  How hard is that?  

The point of mentioning Deff Leppard and their box set, is that if they can do it, why can't Guns?

[Marie82]

12 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Why haven't Guns done anything? How hard is it to acknowledge your 30th anniversary with something remastered, or some live sessions, or some B sides?  How hard is that?  

The point of mentioning Deff Leppard and their box set, is that if they can do it, why can't Guns?

I don't know and it sucks. 

It's up to us to continue to support them this way or move on. 

[john lennon]

You know, I don't see why we even care. After all, it's just a band. Listen to the music, go to the shows, whatever, you know? 

Sure, I love Guns just as much as anyone on here, but it's not like they're the most important thing on earth, right? So what if Axl can't sing after an hour and a half in concert? So what if it's just Duff and Slash? At the end of the day it's just music and obsessing over it too much won't give anyone anything. 

[Sunset Gardner]

noone is too hard on the band members - the real band members: izzy, slash, duff, steven, matt.   it's not their fault.  

it's axl and Team Yes that history should hold accountable for the lost years, the fake employee "lineups", the lost money, the lost body of work… 

[DeadSlash]

20 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I look on this band and there is simply nothing I find remotely interesting (to me) or particularly admirable - beyond perhaps Slash's playing. 'Museum piece' bands are not something I'd ever follow, nor the skeleton merchandisings.

 

19 hours ago, tremolo said:

I know what you mean. The band's mediocre performances are a joke.

 

If only Axl gave 2 and a half fucks and trained his voice so he could sing his own songs... but I know for some fans that's asking too much, especially considering ticket prices! Fans should be thankful that they are not charged $5K and above for the mere fact that Hackxl and $lush are sharing the stage.

 

I guess demanding a minimum standard of quality when you're paying high ticket prices is not cool, is being a self-entitled jackass who should just pay, shut up and be grateful that Lord Axl will reward you with his presence on stage.

 

What a load of BS.

Axl can't sing his own songs, but he charges you as if he could deliver the best vocals of his career while the 2 hottest women in the world were taking turns giving you the most amazing blowjob for the entirety of the show. That is unacceptable, but some fans are willing to turn a blind eye to that fact, because their tongue is so deep up Axl's pooper, in their eyes he can do no wrong. They have come to believe Axl's paranoid view of the world where he is always breaking his back and giving it 200% while the whole world conspires against him to watch him break and fall.

This pretty much answers the thread question.  One dude has no interest in the band, yet lurks here for some strange reason.  I don't give a shit about breeding pure bred Siamese cats... so I don't lurk the fucking message boards about it.  What a novel concept.

 

Tremelo's post is... well it's lol.   What people don't process is that the fans who actually like the band don't give a fuck about your grievances.  You are not important, and nobody gives a shit about what you have to say outside of your friends and family.   The internet is a big place.  Go be a fan of something you do care about, instead of raining tears on thread after thread.  There are even forums that are designed for buthurt people... why not find your home at one?

Edited August 14, 2017 by DeadSlash

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

9 hours ago, john lennon said:

You know, I don't see why we even care. After all, it's just a band. Listen to the music, go to the shows, whatever, you know? 

Sure, I love Guns just as much as anyone on here, but it's not like they're the most important thing on earth, right? So what if Axl can't sing after an hour and a half in concert? So what if it's just Duff and Slash? At the end of the day it's just music and obsessing over it too much won't give anyone anything. 

I understand what you mean/know where you're coming from.

However, there's a reason most of us are here reading the views of others, processing them and taking the time to discuss/to praise/to vent/to get shit off our chests.  

Because we care.  

If we didn't care, we'd  be off doing something else with our time.  We care about the music because it has affected our lives one way or another, and music is deeply personal.

That said, I would've thought there's an understanding that no one here is obsessing outside of this forum or missing out on life or whatever because of Guns N Roses.  Pretty sure everyone treats this forum as an outlet or just somewhere to connect with likeminded others.  

We can't very well rant at our work colleagues/friends/family about how Axl chooses to sing Mickey, or how dire Frank's drumming is or why was Izzy's amp unplugged in 91.  Might get some funny reactions though.  

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[alfierose]

2 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

We can't very well rant at our work colleagues/friends/family about how Axl chooses to sing Mickey, or how dire Frank's drumming is or why was Izzy's amp unplugged in 91.  Might get some funny reactions though.  

Yes totally this. I went to a family party at the weekend, I started telling some people about the London show I attended. I managed to get as far as what a great show it was and how the Olympic Stadium is a lovely venue then eyes started glazing over. 

This is the only place people will indulge me.

[Inbox]

10 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Yes totally this. I went to a family party at the weekend, I started telling some people about the London show I attended. I managed to get as far as what a great show it was and how the Olympic Stadium is a lovely venue then eyes started glazing over. 

This is the only place people will indulge me.

haha! Recently Paradise City came on the radio. I said to my colleague - this is the band I saw this summer. She rolled eyes and said: how can anyone listen to THIS?!?! OK........................... 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

1 hour ago, alfierose said:

Yes totally this. I went to a family party at the weekend, I started telling some people about the London show I attended. I managed to get as far as what a great show it was and how the Olympic Stadium is a lovely venue then eyes started glazing over. 

This is the only place people will indulge me.

I know, right?  It's so disappointing when you only get as far as 'Guns N Roses put on a great show'...before people start looking away, checking their phones etc. It's not so bad if I'm in the company of fellow music enthusiasts who will tolerate a brief GNR discussion in exchange for talking about their preferred band of choice, but for most people I know, music doesn't even factor in their lives.  Like, I know people who take car journeys with no music playing.  At all.  Just a silent car. 

[Tadsy]

I know my point of view on the merch topic may differ from most, but I don't really understand the theory that because GNR havent released an album that releasing merch is some sort of slap in the face to the fans. 

Dont get me wrong, I want a new album. I want izzy and Steven on it, I want a pro shot of UYI shows I haven't seen before, I want pro shot releases of NITL shows, I want the band to do a fucking interview and tell us wtf is going on and shed some light on things, I want them to throw us a bone. 

But I guess I'd add throw some new merch out if they weren't actually doing it. The lithos have been very good and interesting, the old shirts being released have been good. Etc 

I have plenty of gripes, like alluding to some big important show to celebrate AFD30 which turned out to be nothing. I hate the fact that the set list is stale, and no one talks, and we can't get a new album, I hate all of that shit. 

As most of you are too, I'm a huge fan of this band, and I swear I can get so angry at all of this shit, but yet if I'm talking to someone and they start bagging GNR I go straight into defense mode 😜

i don't think we are too hard on them, the history of the band lends itself to the idea that we, as fans don't get looked after real well. And as someone who has a management back ground, with marketing, I could do a fucking hell of a lot better job than TB at keeping the hardcore fans happy. That's not big noting, that's just fact! 

There has been so many good ideas on this board at things this management could have done, opportunities squandered, things that anyone with half a brain could have conjured up and executed to give this fan base more, but it hasn't happebed. Those things, could have softened the blow of no new music, even if none was ever to be released again. So no, I don't think the fans overall are too hard on the band. 

 

[EvanG]

17 minutes ago, Tadsy said:

I don't really understand the theory that because GNR havent released an album that releasing merch is some sort of slap in the face to the fans. 

I think that for a lot of fans it is just another reminder that they are able to release merch for lucrative reasons but not actual music for artistic reasons.

[Fourteenbeers]

2 hours ago, alfierose said:

Yes totally this. I went to a family party at the weekend, I started telling some people about the London show I attended. I managed to get as far as what a great show it was and how the Olympic Stadium is a lovely venue then eyes started glazing over. 

This is the only place people will indulge me.

I played (or tried to play)  Welcome to the Jungle as a sample of Gn'R:s music to my aunt at family party couple of months ago. She said: how can you listen to that racket? Turn it down!

[DeadSlash]

11 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Today I learned myself and my favourite posters aren't important Seriously though, all of the best(imo at least) people on here tend to speak their mind. I'm sorry but without those posters who possess the ability for critical reasoning, this place would be absolute shit.

When I'm happy and having a good time, whether it's in real life or on the innernette I don't seek people out who may not be enjoying themselves as much as I demand and go up to them and say "You know, I'm having a great time all the time but you aren't because you're butthurt and not important. *stands a few inches from their face staring into their eyes*"  imagine behaving like that in real life? I mean, that's the behaviour of a cunt.

I agree, you described a cunt.  you just reversed the players.    You're somewhere having a good time, and someone (you don't know) seeks you out and dedicates their day to following you around and telling you they are not having a good time.   Say you are enjoying yourself at the space museum or some such... some cunt you don't know decides to spend the day with you pissing and moaning about how space is boring, it hasn't been exciting since the 60's, it cost too much and it's a total ripoff.  That would definitely be a cunt

 

One of my top 5 all-time fav bands was John Bush Anthrax.  I used to post on their forums, trade with people etc.  When Bush left the band, I stopped going to the fansite, because I wasn't a fan.  I am not still there, 20k posts later bitching about how much better they were with Bush.  If I posted there to this day, bitching about how bad Anthrax is, I would be (using your words) a cunt.

 

I logged on to the site with the intention of sharing my experience at Hershey Park with other fans who enjoyed it, but what do I see? A bunch of crybabies who were not at the show explain how bad it was, how nobody likes them wah wah wah.  

 

 

There is a big difference between *discussing* things like the desire for new music vs. just plain griping.   Diesel literally says there is nothing remotely interesting about the band.  Logic dictates someone with no interest in Guns N' Roses should not be posting on a forum dedicated to something they are "not remotely" interested in.