Would you have preferred CD in it's 2000'ish form instead of the 2008 release?

[username]

Judging by the demo's (IRS, TWAT, Catcher, Checkmate clip) and the cleaned up live recordings (CD, Blues, Madagascar, Rhiad), would you have preferred the 2000'ish version of Chinese Democracy over the actual release from 2008?

 

Personally I think it's much more of a straigh-forward industrial sounds. A lot like the release of OMG. Much better than the overproduced mess they actually put out! What do you guys think?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by username

[YourMother'sDruthers]

I think the leaks sounded better. The finished album suffered from over production and too many guitar overdubs, such as the loud, distorted rythym guitars on twat that bury the beautiful orchestration, and the endless noodling on the outro of catcher.

[cqleonardo]

the first video is a live version

I'm used to the final version but I really like the Antiquiet leaks

[username]

32 minutes ago, cqleonardo said:

the first video is a live version

 

49 minutes ago, username said:

and the cleaned up live recordings (CD, Blues, Madagascar, Rhiad)

 

32 minutes ago, cqleonardo said:

I'm used to the final version but I really like the Antiquiet leaks

Already too overproduced. The 2000'ish versions are much more straight forward and I prefer that. 

 

[soon]

Voted for official release.  Theres cool bits to all the versions.  And theres stuff i would change from album version.  I dont feel its over produced, I do feel that in a few places theres too much guitar - most notably the lead riffs in the first verse of CD.  I actually think its an amazing production and that the mastering is land mark.  I was a Bucketed fan before he joined GNR and always favour his presence on the tracks.  And some of the synth didnt especially appeal to me - stuff that was low in mix or removed from final release.  

I hadnt heard all the other versions until recently.  Most songs I heard for the first time when I bought the album.  So I think that could have a lot to do with what resonates most with me.

I heard the song CD when I bought the album and the intro made me think "yeah, this is what i expected." and then when the first verse started and theres that really featured lead lick after after the first line of singing I was taken a back and wasnt sure what I thought of the guitar over load.  Then I thought, "well, Slash just ripped all the way through one or two tracks on Spaghetti, so its kinda in keeping"

I love the album version and can kinda - in some ways - understand how it took so long to achieve that level of artistry.  I think its very inventive and ambitious.  I love listening to demos too and currently listen to them way more then the album.

Edited July 23, 2017 by soon

[Silent Jay]

No Better?

No Buckethead?

No Bumblefoot?

3 minutes ago, soon said:

I dont feel its over produced. I actually think its an amazing production and that the mastering is land mark.

This.

 

[J Dog]

I probably would've liked it better, or at least would like to hear it. I just dig all those early versions a little more. And together it had a certain vibe which I think it lost some of by the end product.

[bucketfoot]

No, because it was unfinished in Axl's opinion. I'd love to hear the Sean Beavan version out of curiosity though. Love that funk guitar in the I.R.S. chorus, never understand why they removed that.

[username]

2 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

No, because it was unfinished in Axl's opinion. I'd love to hear the Sean Beavan version out of curiosity though. Love that funk guitar in the I.R.S. chorus, never understand why they removed that.

That's not entirely true. The story is that he'd turned it in like that and it got rejected by the record company. That's when all the horrible overdubbing and re-re-re-recording started. But just imagine... The Roy Thomas Baker productions, the Brian May parts, the Beltrami arrangements, the Sean Beavan parts. Unfinished my ass. 

[bucketfoot]

2 minutes ago, username said:

That's not entirely true. The story is that he'd turned it in like that

If that was true, I'm sure they would have released it tbh. I doubt they wanted to wait another eight years.

[username]

6 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

If that was true, I'm sure they would have released it tbh. I doubt they wanted to wait another eight years.

I don't think they expected Axl to take 8 years when rejecting it. But it's been reported by multiple sources. 

[Janabis]

I really miss Brian May's guitar solo on Catcher. The early performances of the Blues were superior too. I think the album would have done much better in 2000. The sound was pretty stale by 2008 and the over-engineering made it even worse. AFD by comparison is timeless and sounds much more relevant today than CD does.

[bucketfoot]

1 minute ago, username said:

I don't think they expected Axl to take 8 years when rejecting it. But it's been reported by multiple sources. 

I've read something saying Roy Thomas Baker convinced him to re-record it but who knows really? It's all speculation. One way or another he can't have been that happy with it. Maybe we'll hear the definitive story one day? For what it's worth though, I think the version we finally got will stand the test of time because of the (over)production.

[soon]

Maybe in Chinese Whispers, but I cant remember where for sure, I read that RTB was thought to be re-recording everything as a technique to keep momentum on album going.  If Axl was feeling down and not showing up; redo the bass.  If Bucketheads disappeared; re-record synth.  It makes people feel like theres still a project happening.

Where ever I read it, I believe it was just someone else's speculation.  But thought Id share for what its worth.

Edited July 23, 2017 by soon

[Mendez]

7 hours ago, username said:

That's not entirely true. The story is that he'd turned it in like that and it got rejected by the record company. That's when all the horrible overdubbing and re-re-re-recording started. But just imagine... The Roy Thomas Baker productions, the Brian May parts, the Beltrami arrangements, the Sean Beavan parts. Unfinished my ass. 

Beltramis arrangements are still there, just more difficult to hear because of the rhythm guitars

[F*ck Fear]

I love Chinese Democracy as is. However, I feel the targeted release date of September 2002 was the perfect time to release the album. The band went on to have very strong performances in North America, and I beleive the tour wouldn't have ended the way it did.

Regarding certain songs not being conceived in time, tracks like Better could have still happened on one of the two follow ups Axl had planned.

Then by 2010 we could have had this semi reunion, ha!

[username]

2 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

We don't really know what the earlier / earliest versions of the album sounded like. We can only speculate.

A lot of the things you posted in the original post are in fact fake / live performances that were manipulated and edited digitally by fans. 

I would like the Sean Beavan produced album and whatever closest approximates the 2002 band.

I said in the first post which 4 are. I was also around when they were posted here for the first time. Base your opinion on either these or the bootlegs, but my opinion is they sounded better. 

[ruttu69]

I prefer the versions that can be heard in that "Boston fleet center 2002" radio ad. Vocals and drums sound awesome on that.

[appetite4illusions]

The sound textures in those turn of the century demos are SOOO much more interesting than what replaced them.

Obviously, they're very rough, but as Tommy Stinson said "we didn't need to re-record that stuff, we could've fixed it in the mixing stage."

[ToonGuns]

Love checkmate!!

Voted 2000's version, although would prefer the Beavan / Buckethead version if I get a choice.

[Dean]

I'd love to hear what else the band came up with during the early CD sessions in the late 90's, hopefully they get to see the light of day.

I love Chinese Democracy as it is, but the leaks are just as good.

My biggest issue was the exclusion of Axl's edited Brian May solo on Catcher. Probably would've been the best on the album IMO.

[rocknroll41]

I used to have the mindsight that CD woulda been better off coming out in 2002 but in hindsight it feels pretty clear (to me at least) that it wasn't ready until at least 2007.

[gnfnrs1972]

I like the intro of The Blues better than Street of Dreams. Thats about it.

[RONIN]

On 7/23/2017 at 7:50 PM, Wagszilla said:

We don't really know what the earlier / earliest versions of the album sounded like. We can only speculate.

A lot of the things you posted in the original post are in fact fake / live performances that were manipulated and edited digitally by fans. 

I would like the Sean Beavan produced album and whatever closest approximates the 2002 band.

1/2 industrial/nu-metal rockers, 1/2 Axl balladry is what I imagine Beaven's stuff to be.

The CD rockers seem to have their nu-metal roots buried under layers as time went on. As if they slowly were evolving away from that sound with each iteration. 

[Live Like a Suicide]

I think it depends on the song. I think the IRS demo is better than the final song, for example. It sounds heavier and more authentic. Plus, i like that they make a siren sound during parts of the song, lol.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Live Like a Suicide