Hated Illusions Songs??

[Smokin' Cigarettes]

Axl's rant in GITR is cheesy and too white for me.  It makes me cringe.  

This would've been more fun if you would've eliminated some of the obvious choices (My World, Shotgun Blues, etc etc) that don't even need to be discussed and made us pick from better material.

 

Having said that, I thought 2 versions of 1 song in Don't Cry was kinda stupid.  

[Dimezy]

4 hours ago, Nice Boy said:

I think what some people forget is that AFD only showed a certain side of them, and actually their musical influences were/are far more diverse. So songs like Bad Apples simply demonstrate their interest in blusey, funky Rolling Stones type jams.

Well, here's my basic appraisal of the whole lot of UYI songs:

 

Right Next Door To Hell  - A fairly good straight up aggressive hard rock song. 

Dust N' Bones - Typical Izzy style, less rock/punk, more blues.

Live And Let Die - Pointless shit cover. Axl thought it was "the next WTTJ"???!!!

Don't Cry - Decent emotional powerful song.

Perfect Crime - A fairly good straight up aggressive hard rock song.

You Ain't The First - Just a throwaway acoustic jam, has its place though I guess.

Bad Obsession - GnR showing the Rolling Stones influence.

Back Off Bitch - Good guitar work, lyrics are a bit much. 

Double Talkin' Jive - Awesome live - Slash shines; but this studio version is a bit sterile.

November Rain - Axl doing his epic Elton John thang. Not for me really, always skip.

The Garden - Very underrated psychadellic deep cut. Great song.

Garden Of Eden - Nice guitar instrumental, GnR doing "punk" but lyrics too rushed.

Don't Damn Me - Again, Nice guitar instrumental but lyrics a bit 'angry teenager'

Bad Apples - GnR showing the Rolling Stones influence.

Dead Horse - Good hard rocker with Southern influence.

Coma - Absolutely fucking amazing epic masterpiece.

 

Civil War - Great song with very thoughtful lyrics. GnR had no 'integrity'? Listen to this!

14 Years - Izzy doing his Izzy thing, not heavy rock but bluesy style

Yesterdays - The Southern Rock influence.

Knockin' On Heaven's Door - A bit long but defo has its place. Preferred 80s live style.

Get In The Ring - GnR do what they imagine punk to be but go well over the top.

Shotgun Blues - Another throwaway 'punk' song, comes across as juvenile.

Breakdown - The Southern Rock influence.

Pretty Tied Up - Pretty good balance of Rolling Stones and hard rock influence.

Locomotive - Amazing work from Slash and Axl. A grooving hard rocker and amazing end.

So Fine - Uh.... In the words of Izzy, "No."

Estranged - Axl epic, well better than NR and awesome Slash work too.

You Could Be Mine - Killer riff, good meaty drum track, lyrics a bit dark and spiteful. 

Don't Cry - was another version necessary?

My World - The real hidden underrated gem of the album.

(Only joking, it's a total embarrasment.) 

 

Spot on there mate

[Dimezy]

Get in the ring i think we can agree that has sick music, good guitar work but would be better with a simple song structure, verse chorus bridge etc. Got some good lyrics catchy parts just feels more like a play around than a proper song

Probs the only one that sees it like that but oh well

[GNRfan2008]

Get in the Ring - good music, terrible lyrics

Shotgun Blues - music is OK, but again terrible lyrics

My World - worst GN'R song of all-time and it's not close

 

Those three songs really drag down Illusion 2 compared to Illusion 1, even though Illusion 2 has some absolutely incredible songs. Outside of those three songs, I don't really dislike anything else on the two albums. 

[SoulMonster]

I don't hate songs, but November Rain is pretty awful, so are Back off Bitch, Bad Apples, Get In The Ring, Bad Obsession, You Ain't The First and So Fine. I never listen to any of these.

[Chris 55]

Live and Let Die. Bleh. 

[DieselDaisy]

6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't hate songs, but November Rain is pretty awful, so are Back off Bitch, Bad Apples, Get In The Ring, Bad Obsession, You Ain't The First and So Fine. I never listen to any of these.

I love those two and quite like Back off Bitch also (mostly because of Slash's solo).

[Iron MikeyJ]

I positively HATE it when general rock or metal fans say "the illusions have a few good songs, but mostly filler." I feel it's another way to diminish Guns overall, by calling them a 1 album only band. I would put either Illusion album right up there with any album BY any other band, I think they stack up VERY WELL, and overall have aged remarkably well. By comparison, the hallowed early Metallica albums sound a lot more dated in 2017 than UYI do. 

The only songs I don't find a lot of value in are My World, Back off Bitch, Shotgun Blues and 2 Don't Cry's. I prefer the original myself, I find it to be a more straight forward love ballad, which guns only REALLY has 3 of these (SCOM, patience, and DC). My World... is garbage. Shotgun Blues and Back off bitch suffer from juvenile lyrics (the worst lyrics on both albums imo), musically they are good though. 

The rest of the songs on those albums very much belong imo, and I would not change or remove. Even So Fine and Get in the ring are ok by me. So Fine is Duff's moment on those albums, which I think is good for him to have a "moment". Get in the ring is a fun "Fuck You" song. Sure it's juvenile as well, but I think it stands up better than back off and shotgun. 

The rest of the songs ARE NOT just "filler" as critics like to claim. They are a very unique and interesting musical journey that surpasses Metallica IMO and stand up well next to Zeppelin and other great bands.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

All this hate for poor ol' Shotgun Blues...well I think it's a damn funny song.  At least it's got a fan in me. 

@Iron MikeyJ  I totally agree with you re: general perception of both UYI albums.  Irritates the heck out of me, especially when people say Vol 1. is full of filler.  

I think people confuse 'filler' with 'I just don't like it'.  

Filler is a generic song, chucked together half-assed with no memorable melody or progression.  Filler is a song any other band could have come up with.  If filler was a colour it would be beige.  Neutral.  

There isn't a track on both albums that I would categorise as filler.  Not a single one.  Ugly, bizarre, weird, random, unfinished, rambling, slightly embarrassing tracks?  Hell yes.  But those qualities do not constitute filler.  Even My World, which is really ugly, I wouldn't consider filler because it's so damn strange/random.  No one else would have come up with that one.  And that's why I love both albums.  Both are such a mixed bag. 

 

[Iron MikeyJ]

If Guns put out those two albums in the 70s as opposed to the 90s, they would be hailed as classics. I firmly believe that. It's the critics that changed, they decided that rock music couldn't be "artistic" anymore. It was the age of Nirvana and grunge, they understood the youth of America, while Guns was an aging dinosaur. Even if Guns had released UYI as one disc, made up of classic songs that could rival (or even exceed Appetite), critics would have bashed it. 

I have not heard a rock album by ANYONE (except for CD, but that's a different discussion, lol) that is as experimental and evolving to the ears as UYI, since UYI. Songs like Coma, Estranged, Locomotive, etc are not made anymore. They pushed rock music forward into new and interesting directions, just like Zeppelin did in the 70s. Metallica didn't do that, Nirvana didn't do that, etc. 

Those albums get unwarranted hate imo. Probably by those that only listen to Civil War, YCBM, NR, and DC and call the other songs "filler". How is Locomotive or Breakdown filler??? 

[Marie82]

I became a fan of GNR with the Illusions albums so I can't say I hate one song in particular, although You Ain't the First is kinda boring and stupid. 

[EvanG]

37 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

How is Locomotive or Breakdown filler??? 

Calling a song filler is nothing more than an opinion. To me You Ain't The First is filler or a B-side at best, but there are people out there who think highly of that song. I don't get that, but I don't get techno music either, yet it seems to be very popular. Point; you can't argue taste.

Edited August 10, 2017 by EvanG

[Iron MikeyJ]

I could see You Ain't the first being considered a "filler" track. I personally enjoy it, but it is on the more forgettable side of things. I would also put So Fine and Bad Apples more in the filler category as well. I still enjoy them, I just wouldn't recommend them to somebody, that's how I define filler. Would you recommend that song to someone that hasn't heard it? If not, it's more of a filler track. 

[EvanG]

Depends on their taste, for example, I like Bad Apples, but it's not one of my favourites. But I would recommend it to someone who's heavily into funk-rock. I guess you can consider a song 'filler' when it's not popular among the majority, but even then you will have people that consider that one song as their favourite, so obviously for them it wouldn't be 'filler'.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

1 hour ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I have not heard a rock album by ANYONE (except for CD, but that's a different discussion, lol) that is as experimental and evolving to the ears as UYI, since UYI. Songs like Coma, Estranged, Locomotive, etc are not made anymore. They pushed rock music forward into new and interesting directions, just like Zeppelin did in the 70s. Metallica didn't do that, Nirvana didn't do that, etc. 

Allow me to recommend you Silverchair's Diorama album.  That surpasses anything Axl or Guns have done in terms of artistry and vision. I'm serious.  And Daniel Johns was 19 when he wrote and recorded that album.  And it was the band's 4th album.  Fourth.  At 19.  

Also, I would totally recommend Bad Apples - to people who I knew had an ear for that style.  I wouldn't recommend it to people who lean more towards NR.  

Let's face it, if you're not into blues or funk, or punk, or a funky bass sound, or horns, or cowbell, or harmonica, or honky tonk piano, you're not gonna like most of UYI. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[EvanG]

19 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Allow me to recommend you Silverchair's Diorama album.  That surpasses anything Axl or Guns have done in terms of artistry and vision. I'm serious.  And Daniel Johns was 19 when he wrote and recorded that album.  And it was the band's 4th album.  Fourth.  At 19.  

 

Daniel Johns was almost 23 when Diorama was released in 2002. So I'm guessing he wrote most of those songs when he was 21/22, after coming back from the Neon Ballroom tour. I agree that it's an amazing album and an incredible accomplishment for such a young person.

Edited August 10, 2017 by EvanG
I can't type

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

Daniel Johns was almost 23 when Diorama was released in 2002. So I'm guessing he wrote most of those songs when he was 21/22, after coming back from the Neon Balroom tour. I agree that it's an amazing album and an incredible accomplishment for such a young person.

Ah, I stand corrected.  Still, bloody impressive for that age.  Axl could only dream of such productivity. ^^  And Neon Ballroom was also an incredible album.

[EvanG]

Just now, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Ah, I stand corrected.  Still, bloody impressive for that age.  Axl could only dream of such productivity. ^^  And Neon Ballroom was also an incredible album.

Yeah, he really developed as a songwriter on Neon Ballroom. Very dark record, I loved it as a teenager!

Too bad he's making electro RnB music now. He's turning a bit into Axl actually... I think he released only one album in the last ten years, and he's still a relatively young guy.

[Iron MikeyJ]

I should probably check it out. I gotta be honest though, it doesn't get me real excited from a musical standpoint. I'm not saying Silverchair isn't pretty good musically, just NOT up to par with what turns me on, lol. It's not just them, but all 90s bands really. They were good, don't get me wrong, 100 times better than bands today.  It's usually the guitar player that hooks me, I need a bands that have true gunslingers, lol. 

Having said that, I should probably give it go 👍

[DieselDaisy]

You Ain't the First is a classic Stradlin solo song.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

36 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Yeah, he really developed as a songwriter on Neon Ballroom. Very dark record, I loved it as a teenager!

Too bad he's making electro RnB music now. He's turning a bit into Axl actually... I think he released only one album in the last ten years, and he's still a relatively young guy.

I actually like his solo album.   But yeah, I get what you're saying.  He was always eccentric, but he has gone Axl-weird on us.  Said he had 'fallen out of love' with guitars and just want to make noise with his electric thingamabob.  One can only hope he picks up a guitar again and gets his old mates back together.  There's still hope!  I mean, if Guns N' Roses can do it...

22 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I should probably check it out. I gotta be honest though, it doesn't get me real excited from a musical standpoint. I'm not saying Silverchair isn't pretty good musically, just NOT up to par with what turns me on, lol. It's not just them, but all 90s bands really. They were good, don't get me wrong, 100 times better than bands today.  It's usually the guitar player that hooks me, I need a bands that have true gunslingers, lol. 

Having said that, I should probably give it go 👍

Fair enough.  I don't know how much you know of their progression musically but they ditched the grunge sound after album 2.  By the last album they were sounding like a rebooted Beatles.  Diorama is very much orchestral rock so might not be your thing after all, but there are some hard rock numbers on there too.  Check out The Lever and One Way Mule.  I like that term: gunslingers. ^^

19 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You Ain't the First is a classic Stradlin solo song.

Yep. I can't say I'm into Izzy's solo stuff, much as I love what he brought to Guns.  I see You Ain't the First as a buffer between Perfect Crime and Bad Obsession, like taking a breather in between two crazy songs. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[EvanG]

9 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I actually like his solo album.   But yeah, I hear what you're saying.  He was always eccentric, but he has gone Axl-weird on us.  Said he had 'fallen out of love' with guitars and just want to make noise with his electric thingamabob.  One can only hope he picks up a guitar again and gets his old mates back together.  There's still hope!  I mean, if Guns N' Roses can do it...

I gave it a try, but I'm a guitar guy, and there's not a single guitar on that record. I did like Going On 16 and Dissolve, and New York definitely has that Diorama vibe and shows his brilliance as a songwriter, but it's just not my cup of tea. I read that he said that the break from Silverchair took him years to get over and was harder on him than his divorce with Natalie Imbruglia, so I don't think we're getting a reunion any time soon. Ben Gillies is releasing his second solo album this year, I'm curious how that is going to sound like, at least he hasn't given up on rock.

32 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You Ain't the First is a classic Stradlin solo song.

Too bad there isn't a dislike option.

[Drexl]

3 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

If Guns put out those two albums in the 70s as opposed to the 90s, they would be hailed as classics. I firmly believe that. It's the critics that changed, they decided that rock music couldn't be "artistic" anymore. It was the age of Nirvana and grunge, they understood the youth of America, while Guns was an aging dinosaur. Even if Guns had released UYI as one disc, made up of classic songs that could rival (or even exceed Appetite), critics would have bashed it. 

I have not heard a rock album by ANYONE (except for CD, but that's a different discussion, lol) that is as experimental and evolving to the ears as UYI, since UYI. Songs like Coma, Estranged, Locomotive, etc are not made anymore. They pushed rock music forward into new and interesting directions, just like Zeppelin did in the 70s. Metallica didn't do that, Nirvana didn't do that, etc. 

Those albums get unwarranted hate imo. Probably by those that only listen to Civil War, YCBM, NR, and DC and call the other songs "filler". How is Locomotive or Breakdown filler??? 

Amen to this, man.

Illusions are way too sophisticated for an average Joe. Those albums are so amazingly rich, you have everything there: hard rock, rock n' roll, blues rock, psychedelic rock, art rock, metal, funk...
It always pisses me off when I hear about 'fillers'. The best part is, different people consider different numbers as fillers. Just shows how capricious they are, if not to say shallow.

Personally, I just don't like Back Off Bitch and GITR. I hate the sound of guitars in those numbers, they're so sterile, like it's not Slash.

Funny how no-one calls Think About You or Anything Goes fillers, but it's so fashionable to throw shit at Illusions...
I love all those brilliant numbers, Axl's, Slash's, Izzy's... So Fine is a real gem, and, damn, Duff's bass lines are even better than on Appetite. And yeah, Illusions are better than Appetite. There are 27 great numbers (except BOB, GITR and My World).
Sadly, one of the reasons people treat Illusions not seriously were Axl's 'ambitious' videos. But that also shows how people 'listen' to music...

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Drexl said:

Funny how no-one calls Think About You or Anything Goes fillers

I have always considered Anything Goes a filler track. But that's just me, I know some people like it.

[Drexl]

2 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I have always considered Anything Goes a filler track. But that's just me, I know some people like it.

I love those numbers, but they're out of place on Appetite. I'm sure if they were on Illusions, people would hate those numbers.