Is it worth it for GNR to release new music?

[Len Cnut]

8 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

that's UTTER bullshit argument

it shows only that whoever wrote that NONSENSE knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT PRINCE

Prince kept releasing VERY GOOD MUSIC (sometimes GREAT) pretty much till the end of his life

what a load crap argument from someone who doesnt know SHIT

and please dont tell me about "impact" because i couldnt care less about impact. WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT IMPACT? all i care about is axl, izzy, slash, duff and a drummer (hopefully steven) getting together to release NEW MUSIC again. i am pretty sure it will have a HUGE IMPACT ON ME and on everyone that loves GNR, and i couldnt care less if the entire wolrd doesnt notice it!

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU SAY?   Grrrr!

[ludurigan]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU SAY?   Grrrr!

is it bad english? i am not a native english speaker, sorry if that sounded bad

[RONIN]

36 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

that's UTTER bullshit argument

it shows only that whoever wrote that NONSENSE knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT PRINCE

Prince kept releasing VERY GOOD MUSIC (sometimes GREAT) pretty much till the end of his life

what a load crap argument from someone who doesnt know SHIT

and please dont tell me about "impact" because i couldnt care less about impact. WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT IMPACT? all i care about is axl, izzy, slash, duff and a drummer (hopefully steven) getting together to release NEW MUSIC again. i am pretty sure it will have a HUGE IMPACT ON ME and on everyone that loves GNR, and i couldnt care less if the entire wolrd doesnt notice it!

What is your favorite Prince album? I think his artistic peak was Sign o' the Times.

 

54 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Agree with everything else but I'm curious, why would music recorded now not interest you in the slightest? 

100% agree with clearing the vault.  

Don't agree that writing new music would be an exercise in futility.  Why shouldn't they be able to write new music?  It's what at least 2 of them have been doing for a living these past 20 odd years, with a variety of other artists (some of whom they may not have shared any chemistry with) and coping with all that that entails: differing dynamics, personalities, agendas, abilities. 

They could probably knock out at least half-way decent songs in their sleep by now.  Axl is another matter, but he seems to be an inspired man these days, so I'd give him a chance. 

They don't need to be in the same room together.  Again, at least two of them (different two this time) have been making music either by writing their bits in hotel rooms or on the road, and sending the parts over the internet because hectic schedules prevent getting together in the same room, or by assembling bits and pieces to make a song.   No, it's not an organic, or a magical, or romantic process, but it is how many, many musicians make music these days.  And it can be done successfully.  On the other hand, they may even just go old school and get in the same room together.  

Either way, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to write new music, given it is what they do, generally speaking.

 

I just think that they are coming to the table with some potential drawbacks:

1. Past their prime. Not much if any creative/artistic spark left given what they've been up to in the past 7-10 years. I don't think Axl has anything left in the tank creatively and his voice is diminishing fast. He won't even sound as good as he did on Chinese Democracy. No amount of studio tinkering can change that very real fact. They also seem to be gunning towards putting together another album in the style of Appetite or a traditional rock record which is not interesting to me. They did it and they did it perfectly with AFD (and LIES). You can't rehash greatness. They had the right idea to move on with UYI and Chinese. Keep moving forward. But this band is trying to turn back the clock and go backwards. That just isn't interesting artistically. GnR turning into an AC/DC style band is boring. 

2. Their process for songwriting is not conducive to producing their best work - Mark Canter has made this point before. They need to sit in a circle and write their songs like AFD and LIES. A lot of the Illusions was created like that as well. They don't do that anymore. Axl has his ridiculous process of writing against a wall of sound which is how 30-40% of Illusions was written as well Chinese Democracy. Slash, at this stage of his career, does not like nor need to craft his work much - if anything, he's even more content to jam it all out in as few sessions as possible. His hubris will be even bigger than it was in '95 when he refused to give Axl multiple take after take for a song. The only silver lining here is that during the Axl interview last year, he mentions that he would be open to writing lyrics first instead of trying to write to an existing riff. He also mentions how Slash is willing to "work harder" - i.e. re-record his riffs endlessly until they sound "right". Perhaps that could bode well for a future session, who knows. Maybe they've realized their flaws and are open to changing their process.

3. No Izzy. Even if you don't like Izzy - he has a grounding effect. He has an astute sense of how to put together a song and his stripped down approach is drastically needed to counterbalance Axl and Slash's excess. Duff alone cannot serve as the counterweight to those two. Without Izzy, you've lost Axl's strongest writing partner. From a quality control POV, this is a major creative blow. It seems to me like Axl and Slash want to go back to meat and potatoes rock like AFD rather than any experimental Illusion/Chinese style music. If that's the case, they're really shooting themselves in the foot without Izzy's input.

4. Fortus - An unproven session musician that is a talented player. We know next to nothing about his creative potential other than the fact that he's nearly 50 without anything truly memorable on his resume. I'm not holding my breath that he blows us away with GnR. 

Basically, the formula and process for creating a GnR record has changed significantly. And all these guys are a decade removed from their best creative years. I'm sure anything they put together will be strong but it's just inevitable that it will be a case of diminishing returns. With such a mighty legacy in tow, why not just work with the hundreds of tapes of riffs from your best years and put together 1 or 2 great albums from that? At least it would be cohesive to some extent with what came before. Stack the odds in your favor. I also think the vault material has a lot more potential artistic merit than anything they cobble together now in their twilight years. 

Maybe if it was the AFD 5 lineup trying to put together one final kickass album to live up to their legacy and having something to prove to the world - that might have enough of a spark to have a shot at getting near their best work. That's the lineup that everyone wants an album from and in that scenario, I could see the merit in working on brand new material. Whatever Axl and Slash are proposing right now isn't really even Guns n' Roses with Fortus' inclusion.

Edited August 19, 2017 by RONIN

[Gibson87]

They really owe it to themselves to release music and have one or two more albums be the end of their legacy. As much as I love Chinese, it's not a strong enough album to go out on. 

[NicDwolfwood]

It should be worth it to them if they give a fuck about closing the GNR chapter in the right way. Of rewriting their wrongs so to speak.

 

I hold onto a small glimmer of hope(very small) that they care. But the cards are stacked against them in that aspect. The list of artists that have written great albums late into their careers is quite small. And there is no precedent for a Rock n Roll band which imploded then reunited 20 years later, and made records again that held up with their OG shit. You have to wonder if that spark is there. I doubt it. The creative spark between 5 members that happened on AFD pretty much ended on that album and the tracks that were written during that AFD era band. once Illusions came about their creative process was much different. I dont have faith that Fortus, Frank and Melissa are gonna be able to make the difference. 

 

 

 

 

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

that's UTTER bullshit argument

it shows only that whoever wrote that NONSENSE knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT PRINCE

Prince kept releasing VERY GOOD MUSIC (sometimes GREAT) pretty much till the end of his life

what a load crap argument from someone who doesnt know SHIT

and please dont tell me about "impact" because i couldnt care less about impact. WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT IMPACT? all i care about is axl, izzy, slash, duff and a drummer (hopefully steven) getting together to release NEW MUSIC again. i am pretty sure it will have a HUGE IMPACT ON ME and on everyone that loves GNR, and i couldnt care less if the entire wolrd doesnt notice it!

Agree to disagree here. An artist (or anyone really) should absolutely care about their legacy and impact. What else are we here on this earth for other than to leave our own mark in some small way? They want to reach the most amount of people possible with their work. Humans are tribal by nature - we need some form of social validation for what we produce.

Even Prince has shelved entire albums that didn't meet his artistic standards. Quality control and recognition are an important part of the artistic process. They both work as a filter that culls your best work. Even Mozart and Beethoven probably wrote plenty of material that just straight up sucked. That's just the nature of the artistic process. The good thing is, most of us have probably never heard a lot of their bad material. Some things should remain unheard and exist as demos (see "My World" and "Silkworms"). 

Just because GnR didn't release much material doesn't mean they should just greenlight anything and everything. I don't know about other people, but I'm glad we didn't have the Snakepit albums and Contraband as GnR records. That would have absolutely diluted their legacy as a band imho. It's just like seeing a bad sequel to a great movie. It sort of ruins what you loved about the art originally. Try showing the Terminator series to a child that hasn't seen any of those films. By the end of T2 they will be dying to see another sequel. By the end of T3, they could care less about that series let alone want to see another sequel. Music isn't really any different imho. I generally am much more reluctant to revisit a band that put out a bad album. Look at how many fans of GnR dropped off during TSI and Chinese that suddenly are flooding stadiums now to hear AFD and Illusions from a "reunited" GnR. Good art is timeless. Bad art kills you creatively and commercially.

I do agree with you that it would be great for the AFD 5 to put out an album regardless of what the potential impact would be - but that will never happen given how things are going right now. 

Edited August 19, 2017 by RONIN

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

@RONIN

Agree they are coming to the table with potential drawbacks = risk.  That's a given.  They can't do, or create anything without taking that risk.  They took a risk in reuniting and gong on tour at all.  It's got to be done, or else they should pack it in now and go out on a high.

I'm obviously counting on them taking the risk and the risk paying off.  

1. Past their prime.  Axl is (this is a problem I've commented on in Vocal thread, time is against him particularly).  The rest no.  I'm alarmed at the general perception I've noticed here that somehow only young people are capable of producing excellent work.  Only young people can be angry, hungry, ambitious.  Only young people have 'something to say'.  I'd wager they've still got something to say about the human condition given they've lived quite the life, had quite a bit of shit to wade through and come out the other side alive and relatively in tact, possibly transformed.  The latter part is key.  The latter part can do a heck of a lot for igniting creative spark, ambition, hunger to get things done before you're time is up.  N.B we don't know what sound they're gunning towards creating, we can only speculate.

2. Their song writing process.  Has more than likely changed.  They are not who they were in the AFD/UYI era, will more than likely have developed or will develop a different creative process, therefore it's not much use judging them by a process they were using 30 years ago, or Axl's tedious CD process he used 10 years ago.  Sitting in a circle, or in the back of a van, or staggering up Gardner St smashing back bottles of Nighttrain worked back then.  Probably not going to work now, no matter how many times Canter makes his point.  Something else will work now.  I don't know what that is, but I suspect they'll work it out IF they want to write new music.  N.B. a lot of Illusions was also created as and when and ad hoc: Izzy mailing in cassettes of his parts and Axl being alone in a room putting bits and bobs together - which Slash hated then - but apparently doesn't these days.  They've changed.

3. No Izzy.  I agree.  No Izzy is a problem.  That's part of the risk they'll have to take.  Look, I loved how CD turned out.  I think as an Axl solo project is absolutely brilliant and Izzy wasn't required for that.  Yes, I know, CD doesn't sound like GNR.  But the Guns N' Roses DNA is there, under all the layers and nonsense, esp in the demo of Riad so that tells me that it's still possible for Axl to write Guns music without Izzy and the probability of it turning out well increases if he's got Slash and Duff.  But yes, Izzy would be ideal.

4. Fortus.  Well, what can any of us say?  We don't know.  But hey, just because we don't know doesn't mean he shouldn't be given a chance.  I like his solo stuff, it showcases his blues influence and that is the bedrock of GNR sound.  So there's that.

Saying all that, however, I do agree with you that they should make use of past material, clear the vault, stack the odds in their favour.  I just think they should do both - release the old stuff, write new stuff.  Why the hell not?  The fact that time is ticking away should serve as impetus to create and produce and achieve, not as a discouragement.  We're not talking about athletes here, they just need to use their brains.  Axl's problematic voice is a whole other discussion. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[Todubblebe]

I hope there is no more new musicfrom them. 

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, EvanG said:

People often say that, but so many of my favourite bands didn't make their best albums until halfway through their career. Of course it's subjective, but many musicians grow as songwriters and you can hear that on the albums.

Read the rest of the comment. I said there are exceptions... 

[ludurigan]

45 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Agree to disagree here. An artist (or anyone really) should absolutely care about their legacy and impact. What else are we here on this earth for other than to leave our own mark in some small way? They want to reach the most amount of people possible with their work. Humans are tribal by nature - we need some form of social validation for what we produce.

Even Prince has shelved entire albums that didn't meet his artistic standards. Quality control and recognition are an important part of the artistic process. They both work as a filter that culls your best work. Even Mozart and Beethoven probably wrote plenty of material that just straight up sucked. That's just the nature of the artistic process. The good thing is, most of us have probably never heard a lot of their bad material. Some things should remain unheard and exist as demos (see "My World" and "Silkworms"). 

Just because GnR didn't release much material doesn't mean they should just greenlight anything and everything. I don't know about other people, but I'm glad we didn't have the Snakepit albums and Contraband as GnR records. That would have absolutely diluted their legacy as a band imho. It's just like seeing a bad sequel to a great movie. It sort of ruins what you loved about the art originally. Try showing the Terminator series to a child that hasn't seen any of those films. By the end of T2 they will be dying to see another sequel. By the end of T3, they could care less about that series let alone want to see another sequel. Music isn't really any different imho. I generally am much more reluctant to revisit a band that put out a bad album. Look at how many fans of GnR dropped off during TSI and Chinese that suddenly are flooding stadiums now to hear AFD and Illusions from a "reunited" GnR. Good art is timeless. Bad art kills you creatively and commercially.

I do agree with you that it would be great for the AFD 5 to put out an album regardless of what the potential impact would be - but that will never happen given how things are going right now. 

sure, its their job to worry about impact -- i dont care about that AT ALL. all i care is listening their music. i couldnt care less if the entire world hates it...

actually, the ideal situation for a band when it comes to "impact" may be what apparently happened to the Ramones

i read this in a book about them

some guy says that they never had a #1 hit

and because of that they spent their entire career doing one great album after the other in search of that elusive #1 hit.

can you imagine if GNR hadnt become the biggest band in the world after appetite?

(I am not sure if thats possible because appetite is just too good -- i personally believe that it would explode even if david geffen hadnt called MTV to ask them to play "jungle" bla bla bla)

but can you imagine that?

can you imagine GNR trying to OUTDO appetite because, lets imagine this possibility, appetite didnt sell really well?

that would be a much better scenario for GNR than what eventually happened, wouldnt it?

the ramones released like 4 or 5 nearly perfect albums before releasing a couple that werent that good.

and they bounced back and release very fine music all the way to the end

probably because they NEEDED it

can you imagine that happening with GNR?

===

about prince shelving stuff that didnt meet his standards

again, it's his call to do that

the same way it's GNR call (or should I say Axl's call?) not to release all things GNR did 1985-1991 that to this day are shelved, including live recordings, demos, outtakes, unreleased songs etc

do I agree with that?

of course not!

As someone who loves GNR music, i would love GNR to RELEASE EVERYTHING that GNR ever recorded live or studio 1985-1991!

let me buy it and let me listen to it, that's all i ask and that's all I care!

i dont think anything should be left unheard!

anything at all...

===

legacy?

in GNR?

GNR legacy is 1985-1991.

put the illusions tour there (1992-93) and spaghetti (great album) in there if you like.

there is no GNR after that.

there is only axl solo career -- now THAT is a fiasco that really damaged the GNR name

and there is this guns n aliens tour

i wont even comment on that!

===

yeah, very unlikely that GNR releases anything now!

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

What is your favorite Prince album? I think his artistic peak was Sign o' the Times.

 

no idea

i havent got one single prince album

i have found great songs in many of his albums

i also used to get a lot of prince boots on guitars101 before they were banned

he has got so many great stuff

i loved some songs that he released like 3 or 4 years ago with his girl band 3rd eye or something

i dont even know the names of the songs, he has too many and i dont know even half of them!

[AxlRoseCDII]

As many have said over the years, the #1 reason this band doesn't release music and will continue to not release anything is Axl. Slash and Duff were both ridiculously productive over their 20 year break from Guns. Even the members people seem to dislike such as Melissa and Fortus have released more than Axl over the past 20 years. Axl has released one album since TSI in '93, and if we're talking original material: one album in 26 years! Axl has shown very little intention on releasing another one anytime soon. 

Again, Axl Rose, as f***ing brilliant as he can be, is the #1 reason Guns output has been pathetic since the original lineup dissolved. To answer the question, the sheer fact that we haven't gotten anything from this band besides cash grab tours and clothing lines has made even me, once a diehard fan eager for new guns music, not give a crap anymore. Life will go on without it- I've learned to accept there will never be more guns music. To quote one of their most famous covers- Live and Let Die.

Edited August 20, 2017 by AxlRoseCDII

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Could care less if "Guns" releases music ever again. I want Axl music in any capacity, as he is one of the most unique songwriters of all time. It's hard to find a lyricist more honest than Axl, and his vocal melodies are memorable without necessarily being what you would consider "catchy", kind of like Robert Plant. A damn shame if we never get more songs from the man.

Edited August 20, 2017 by ShadowOfTheWave

[Live Like a Suicide]

9 hours ago, Gnrcane said:

In the YouTube era, I don't think it is wise to perform new songs before release. The limited sellability of recorded music would be hurt even more.

I see where you're coming from, but it would do well to boost press and tickets in whichever markets they need to fill. They don't need to play many new songs. Only a couple would suffice. They do have a history of playing new songs prior to an album's release, but yeah, the YouTube factor could very well come into play.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Live Like a Suicide

[EvanG]

12 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Read the rest of the comment. I said there are exceptions... 

There are always exceptions, but you said ''the majority of bands'' and I don't know if that is the case. 

Edited August 20, 2017 by EvanG

[Rovim]

It's not a question of worth. It's about musical integrity which Axl still got I believe. My guess is the tiny catalog bothers him which is great. Slash is back in Guns, why would he not attempt to hear what it sounds like with the classic guitar player? there is no reason. 

It will take years but they've got nothing to lose when it comes to attempting to record a lot of music. If it's good enough for Axl and there is a reasonable deal, he'll release at least one more Guns album imo.

It's not about money anymore but the legacy seem very important to Axl. Slash and Duff must be dying to put their mark one more time on the catalog. I remain super optimistic.

[TupacShakur]

if gnr release new music its going to top all their older albums

[Sunset Gardner]

they should absolutely make new music.  they should recommit to each other, recommit to their craft, and they should be very, very smart and recommit to izzy (the best songwriter they know).  

they should unleash a new gnr chapter and blow everybody away.

with jack white producing. 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Sunset Gardner

[Colossus of Rhodes]

No question it's worth it, but can they do it? For sure Axl wants to have a bigger legacy, but is he self-disciplined enough? Can you imagine him laboring hours/days on end? From his home or recording studio (alone or with others), doesn't matter.

From the Stones camp, they released a lot of (really well reconstructed) outtakes, rehearsals, music in the making really. There is a ton of excellent stuff. These guys were working like maniacs. Note, this is not "extended" version, it's completely different take, with Mick Taylor higher in the mix, different lyrics etc.

I wish we have something like this from Guns, variations, alternative takes etc, but they have to start ASAP.

[Sunset Gardner]

16 hours ago, RONIN said:

What is your favorite Prince album? I think his artistic peak was Sign o' the Times.

 

I just think that they are coming to the table with some potential drawbacks:

1. Past their prime. Not much if any creative/artistic spark left given what they've been up to in the past 7-10 years. I don't think Axl has anything left in the tank creatively and his voice is diminishing fast. He won't even sound as good as he did on Chinese Democracy. No amount of studio tinkering can change that very real fact. They also seem to be gunning towards putting together another album in the style of Appetite or a traditional rock record which is not interesting to me. They did it and they did it perfectly with AFD (and LIES). You can't rehash greatness. They had the right idea to move on with UYI and Chinese. Keep moving forward. But this band is trying to turn back the clock and go backwards. That just isn't interesting artistically. GnR turning into an AC/DC style band is boring. 

2. Their process for songwriting is not conducive to producing their best work - Mark Canter has made this point before. They need to sit in a circle and write their songs like AFD and LIES. A lot of the Illusions was created like that as well. They don't do that anymore. Axl has his ridiculous process of writing against a wall of sound which is how 30-40% of Illusions was written as well Chinese Democracy. Slash, at this stage of his career, does not like nor need to craft his work much - if anything, he's even more content to jam it all out in as few sessions as possible. His hubris will be even bigger than it was in '95 when he refused to give Axl multiple take after take for a song. The only silver lining here is that during the Axl interview last year, he mentions that he would be open to writing lyrics first instead of trying to write to an existing riff. He also mentions how Slash is willing to "work harder" - i.e. re-record his riffs endlessly until they sound "right". Perhaps that could bode well for a future session, who knows. Maybe they've realized their flaws and are open to changing their process.

3. No Izzy. Even if you don't like Izzy - he has a grounding effect. He has an astute sense of how to put together a song and his stripped down approach is drastically needed to counterbalance Axl and Slash's excess. Duff alone cannot serve as the counterweight to those two. Without Izzy, you've lost Axl's strongest writing partner. From a quality control POV, this is a major creative blow. It seems to me like Axl and Slash want to go back to meat and potatoes rock like AFD rather than any experimental Illusion/Chinese style music. If that's the case, they're really shooting themselves in the foot without Izzy's input.

4. Fortus - An unproven session musician that is a talented player. We know next to nothing about his creative potential other than the fact that he's nearly 50 without anything truly memorable on his resume. I'm not holding my breath that he blows us away with GnR. 

Basically, the formula and process for creating a GnR record has changed significantly. And all these guys are a decade removed from their best creative years. I'm sure anything they put together will be strong but it's just inevitable that it will be a case of diminishing returns. With such a mighty legacy in tow, why not just work with the hundreds of tapes of riffs from your best years and put together 1 or 2 great albums from that? At least it would be cohesive to some extent with what came before. Stack the odds in your favor. I also think the vault material has a lot more potential artistic merit than anything they cobble together now in their twilight years. 

Maybe if it was the AFD 5 lineup trying to put together one final kickass album to live up to their legacy and having something to prove to the world - that might have enough of a spark to have a shot at getting near their best work. That's the lineup that everyone wants an album from and in that scenario, I could see the merit in working on brand new material. Whatever Axl and Slash are proposing right now isn't really even Guns n' Roses with Fortus' inclusion.

where would this forum be without Ronin's input?  thank you for this post.  very smart and well thought out.  

[Tom2112]

5 hours ago, EvanG said:

There are always exceptions, but you said ''the majority of bands'' and I don't know if that is the case. 

Nah, that's definitely the case when you're talking about bands who are 30/40yrs deep into their careers. 

Like there's always a "return to form" album. For example Death Magnetic "Metallica are back" "best album since and justice..." But... 8 years later and the critics have taken a turn on those statements, fans have too and the band barely plays a song off of it, favouring old classic material and the few cuts from their current "return to form" record. Why? Well while there are great songs on the album, it's still not as strong from start to finish, same goes for Black Ice.

I personally don't see the point in measuring a band against classic albums, I still enjoy listening to new records from my favourite band. A classic album has too much history around it to be topped, irregardless of quality if new material. 

[Rovim]

49 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Nah, that's definitely the case when you're talking about bands who are 30/40yrs deep into their careers. 

Like there's always a "return to form" album. For example Death Magnetic "Metallica are back" "best album since and justice..." But... 8 years later and the critics have taken a turn on those statements, fans have too and the band barely plays a song off of it, favouring old classic material and the few cuts from their current "return to form" record. Why? Well while there are great songs on the album, it's still not as strong from start to finish, same goes for Black Ice.

I personally don't see the point in measuring a band against classic albums, I still enjoy listening to new records from my favourite band. A classic album has too much history around it to be topped, irregardless of quality if new material. 

Maybe not top, but something in the ballbark of quality. Chinese is not as good as the old stuff to most, but I think it doesn't shame the legacy when you consider the way it was made and no Slash. With Slash, Duff, Fortus and the rest of the current line up and what Axl has managed to record, there may be some timeless shit they can take to the next level. IE: top Chinese perhaps. Well thought out tunes with Slash. 

Big Guns like Twat and Better, only more rocking stuff that sound way more Guns and are relevant in the Guns universe at least. That's something I think the fans can accept.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Rovim

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

Maybe not top, but something in the ballbark of quality. Chinese is not as good as the old stuff to most, but I think it doesn't shame the legacy when you consider the way it was made and no Slash. With Slash, Duff, Fortus and the rest of the current line up and what Axl has managed to record, there may be some timeless shit they can take to the next level. IE: top Chinese perhaps. Well thought out tunes with Slash. 

Big Guns like Twat and Better, only more rocking stuff that sound way more Guns and are relevant in the Guns universe at least. That's something I think the fans can accept.

I love Chinese, and I agree that guns could easily drop a record that would please a lot of fans, but we all know where it lands in a best to worst list. AFD, UYI, *new album*, Chinese. I left out TSI because while it's an official release it's not original gnr music. Also that's not my personal list, Chinese is much higher (no. 1 usually)... But that's me and the above list represents the wider fan perspective. 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

Maybe not top, but something in the ballbark of quality. Chinese is not as good as the old stuff to most, but I think it doesn't shame the legacy when you consider the way it was made and no Slash. With Slash, Duff, Fortus and the rest of the current line up and what Axl has managed to record, there may be some timeless shit they can take to the next level. IE: top Chinese perhaps. Well thought out tunes with Slash. 

Big Guns like Twat and Better, only more rocking stuff that sound way more Guns and are relevant in the Guns universe at least. That's something I think the fans can accept.

I agree with you on this.  People tend to overlook CD's incredible song writing.  When you trim the fat, the actual song structures are often very similar to old-Guns, which is why I say CD is infused with Guns DNA and why CD is evidence that Axl can write Guns style music without Izzy.  See Riad demo which showcases that classic Guns N' Roses bass sound and structure.

Axl cops a bashing for CD yet he's the only one who has shown he can write interesting, progressive, artistic songs that also rock.  That he took an electronic hammer to most of them and then filled in all the cracks with a lot of strange noise and fifty guitars is a separate issue not to do with his ability to write incredible songs.  That's a production issue.  He needs Slash and Duff to keep his feet on the ground and his head out of the clouds.

In contrast, Slash has shown that he is a competent songwriter, nothing more, and needs someone to lift him, to challenge him to leave his comfort zone i.e. make him work harder.  Team Slash with Myles fucking Kennedy and you're going to get generic rock.  Team him with Chris Cornell, or Andrew Stockdale and you get unexpectedly intriguing songs that also rock - even he admits what a pleasant surprise those turned out to be.  Ditto Duff, who I give points to for Executioner's Song - it's not original, but it's done very, very well.  I am not a fan of anything Izzy has done outside of Guns, yet you team him with those guys and something magical happens. Or it used to.

Each one of their side projects is infused with Guns DNA - you can hear it in everyone's work.  But on their own, there's always something missing (or too much of everything in Axl's case).  This is why they need each other in whatever shape or form they can muster. 

Get at least 3 of them writing songs together again and I can't help feeling it's almost inevitable that new material will be at least good, if not bloody good.  Maybe even awesome.  So it's definitely worth the current line-up putting out new material.

 

 

[EvanG]

3 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Nah, that's definitely the case when you're talking about bands who are 30/40yrs deep into their careers. 

Like there's always a "return to form" album. For example Death Magnetic "Metallica are back" "best album since and justice..." But... 8 years later and the critics have taken a turn on those statements, fans have too and the band barely plays a song off of it, favouring old classic material and the few cuts from their current "return to form" record. Why? Well while there are great songs on the album, it's still not as strong from start to finish, same goes for Black Ice.

I personally don't see the point in measuring a band against classic albums, I still enjoy listening to new records from my favourite band. A classic album has too much history around it to be topped, irregardless of quality if new material. 

Well, most bands don't last 30 or 40 years so there aren't that many examples. I thought you meant that most bands didn't manage to surpass their first couple of albums. And that is true for some, but when I go through my record collection, a lot of bands/artists made their best album not until halfway through their career.